Creating God in Our Image

[Guest]

I continue to see this tendency all over.  The tendency is to decide that we know what’s up and therefore, a God would in fact be exactly like that package that we’ve created in our own minds.  Even atheists do this.  They have to.  The primary statement from atheists is,”I can’t believe in a… who does…”  While this could be applied in an enlightened way, I find that most of what fills in those blanks consists of kindergarten level complaints without much exploration into what God is really like or what He really does and why.

I'm coming to believe that it is almost impossible for any mere mortals to escape.  More and more I’m finding that most theists have this same tendency.  Human beings need to believe that they “get it.”  We understand the world around us.  It’s the only way we can get through the day without falling into a heap on the ground in despair.

We categorize, we classify, and we put things in their boxes.  We need them to stay in those boxes or else we just don’t understand the world anymore.  When we come across something new, we rush to categorize.  One may say that we rush to judgment.  Then it’s a big deal if we ever have to change those boxes or labels on the boxes (Hello, Pluto).  If we come across something that challenges those labels or changes which box something goes in, we’re very resistant.  We don’t like moving things from one box to another.  It messes up our entire system.  It means that we were wrong.  We don’t like saying that. 

But instead of seeking out the truth to help guide us to our new basis, we make things up.  We tend to think we already know the answer.  We just need the proper logic, rationale, and evidence to back it up.  We make up new beliefs, doctrines, and ideas to fill in those gaps using the thinnest of logic and evidence to support it.  If anyone disagrees, well, they just don’t know what they’re talking about.  This is actually pathological and psychotic behavior.  I do not use those words as rhetoric alone.  But I say them knowing the clinical definitions as well as their sensational connotations.

So, we can continue in this path, and we realize that when we do so, we are no better than animals.  We don’t actually use logic and reason to get to the truth.  We only learn enough to let us feel comfortable in the fiction that we’ve created for ourselves.

The other option is humility.  The humility to realize that “man is nothing.”  We cannot command God.  We can only trust in God.  When we have faith in a transcendent being, that allows us to be ok with saying “I don’t know.”  And being obedient to Him means that we will search for an answer and abide by the truth that we FIND rather than DECIDE.

Finally, most humans really are no different than animals.  The only way for us to be human is to have faith in God.  Then we have shown that that spark of Divinity which lays dormant in us can awaken.  Then we are more than mere chemicals and processes in bags of water.  We are children of Heavenly Parents with a Divine mission and potential.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Guest

[Traveler]

43 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I continue to see this tendency all over.  The tendency is to decide that we know what’s up and therefore, a God would in fact be exactly like that package that we’ve created in our own minds.  Even atheists do this.  They have to.  The primary statement from atheists is,”I can’t believe in a… who does…”  While this could be applied in an enlightened way, I find that most of what fills in those blanks consists of kindergarten level complaints without much exploration into what God is really like or what He really does and why.

I'm coming to believe that it is almost impossible for any mere mortals to escape.  More and more I’m finding that most theists have this same tendency.  Human beings need to believe that they “get it.”  We understand the world around us.  It’s the only way we can get through the day without falling into a heap on the ground in despair.

We categorize, we classify, and we put things in their boxes.  We need them to stay in those boxes or else we just don’t understand the world anymore.  When we come across something new, we rush to categorize.  One may say that we rush to judgment.  Then it’s a big deal if we ever have to change those boxes or labels on the boxes (Hello, Pluto).  If we come across something that challenges those labels or changes which box something goes in, we’re very resistant.  We don’t like moving things from one box to another.  It messes up our entire system.  It means that we were wrong.  We don’t like saying that. 

But instead of seeking out the truth to help guide us to our new basis, we make things up.  We tend to think we already know the answer.  We just need the proper logic, rationale, and evidence to back it up.  We make up new beliefs, doctrines, and ideas to fill in those gaps using the thinnest of logic and evidence to support it.  If anyone disagrees, well, they just don’t know what they’re talking about.  This is actually pathological and psychotic behavior.  I do not use those words as rhetoric alone.  But I say them knowing the clinical definitions as well as their sensational connotations.

So, we can continue in this path, and we realize that when we do so, we are no better than animals.  We don’t actually use logic and reason to get to the truth.  We only learn enough to let us feel comfortable in the fiction that we’ve created for ourselves.

The other option is humility.  The humility to realize that “man is nothing.”  We cannot command God.  We can only trust in God.  When we have faith in a transcendent being, that allows us to be ok with saying “I don’t know.”  And being obedient to Him means that we will search for an answer and abide by the truth that we FIND rather than DECIDE.

Finally, most humans really are no different than animals.  The only way for us to be human is to have faith in God.  Then we have shown that that spark of Divinity which lays dormant in us can awaken.  Then we are more than mere chemicals and processes in bags of water.  We are children of Heavenly Parents with a Divine mission and potential.

I really, really like your thinking - but I have just one problem.  What if you (we) are wrong? 

 

The Traveler

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I really, really like your thinking - but I have just one problem.  What if you (we) are wrong? 

That's a very old question.  How do we know that we know?

Answers:

Descartes, Socrates, Plato, D&C 8:2.

Eventually, our dedication to the truth (no matter if we agree with it or not, whether it makes sense or not) and our constant willingness to adjust our thinking as new truths are introduced can get us there.  Sure it would be great to say that we have a sure knowledge.  But most of the time, we can only say,"I believed what I thought was true.  I did what I thought was right based on all the knowledge I had at the time."

For now we look through a glass darkly.  We know in part.  We prophesy in part.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Guest

[Traveler]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

That's a very old question.  How do we know that we know?

Answers:

Descartes, Socrates, Plato, D&C 8:2.

Eventually, our dedication to the truth (no matter if we agree with it or not, whether it makes sense or not) and our constant willingness to adjust our thinking as new truths are introduced can get us there.  Sure it would be great to say that we have a sure knowledge.  But most of the time, we can only say,"I believed what I thought was true.  I did what I thought was right based on all the knowledge I had at the time."

For now we look through a glass darkly.  We know in part.  We prophesy in part.

 

For me - when I discover that I am wrong or have been wrong – I make effort to immediately change.  On an average day – I believe I spend more time repenting than being right.

 

The Traveler

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Traveler said:

For me - when I discover that I am wrong or have been wrong – I make effort to immediately change.  On an average day – I believe I spend more time repenting than being right.

Yes, changing our thinking can be a method of repentance.  Often, it is about changing our way of thinking regarding sin.  But that is truly just getting a better knowledge about what that sin actually does to ourselves and others.

[Guest Godless]

This idea isn't new to atheists. The ranks of the religious are filled with those who bend and mold scripture to fit their personal or political agendas. This is why there are multiple sects and variants of Christianity (and just about every other major religion in the world). Long-extinct ancient cultures did the same thing. Religious institutions are more often than not a reflection of the cultures that created them rather than the scriptural doctrines that they teach. 

And yes, atheists are often guilty of the same. Personally, I never understood people who have a personal vendetta against a god they claim to not believe in.   

Edited December 22, 2017 by Godless

[zlllch]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Finally, most humans really are no different than animals.  The only way for us to be human is to have faith in God.  Then we have shown that that spark of Divinity which lays dormant in us can awaken.  Then we are more than mere chemicals and processes in bags of water.  We are children of Heavenly Parents with a Divine mission and potential.

Reminds me of these verses in Helaman 12:

7 O how great is the nothingness of the children of men; yea, even they are less than the dust of the earth.
8 For behold, the dust of the earth moveth hither and thither, to the dividing asunder, at the command of our great and everlasting God.

So we are nothing, less than the dust of the earth, because the dust of the earth does as God commands. And as we keep God's commandments, we can rise above that nothingness. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by zlllch

[zlllch]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 

I continue to see this tendency all over.  The tendency is to decide that we know what’s up and therefore, a God would in fact be exactly like that package that we’ve created in our own minds

 

I always base my tentative beliefs about God on one basic principle: that he is good. 

[MarginOfError]

"Creating God in our Own Image"

This is the common thread in the development of religion throughout human history.

Mormonism has not been immune.

Which is why I take everything with a grain of salt (my own beliefs included)

[mordorbund]

On 12/22/2017 at 10:41 AM, Carborendum said:

 Then it’s a big deal if we ever have to change those boxes or labels on the boxes (Hello, Pluto).

The truth behind Pluto's classification expulsion is a tangled and tortuous tale. The short version is that Disney decided to flex its IP muscles. Scientists had to either pay through the nose or excise the textbooks. In the end it was determined that it would be cheaper to reprint the books rather that pay the licensing. The irony here, of course, is that Disney earmarked the licensing funds for solving the climate change crisis, but the scientists came to a consensus not to fund it.

The documentation for all this can be found.... [hold on a minute while I get the door.... oooooh my package finally got here.... I'll have to finish this later]

 

 

[Traveler]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:00 AM, Carborendum said:

Yes, changing our thinking can be a method of repentance.  Often, it is about changing our way of thinking regarding sin.  But that is truly just getting a better knowledge about what that sin actually does to ourselves and others.

 

I like the idea of repentance as a method of changing (evolving) one's thinking.  One does not have to be wrong before needing to update their thinking.  We can update our thinking just by "expanding" what we know.  (Line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept).  I like the idea that repentance is a process of learning and becoming more enlightened.  Likewise - "Hard Hearted" is not so evil in and of itself; as much an inability (or refusal) to learn from other points of view.

 

The Traveler

Edited December 24, 2017 by Traveler