Dating Non-LDS People

[bananarchist]

Hi,

I've been an active member of the church since I was a child, but for whatever reason, the men I take interest in are usually outside of the faith. I've been very inspired by Joaquin E. Costa's talk from last summer about how his girlfriend Renee brought him to the church, and although I eventually intend to marry in the temple, but I don't mind having a relationship with someone of a different faith, provided they're still willing to date me after finding out I'm abstinent. (but no one really is haha) However, I get apprehensive about introducing them to the church. Our beliefs are pretty reasonable, but questions usually arise regarding our beliefs on LGBT issues, the Word of Wisdom, or garments. I have such a hard time introducing people to these things. I just get the feeling that from the outside it must seem like I'm in a cult. (might have done too much reading on r/exmormon) How would you recommend introducing a significant other or friend to the church in a way that won't scare them off? 

 

Thanks!

[Grunt]

I wouldn't "introduce" them at all.  Being Mormon isn't like having an alcoholic brother.  It's like having a left hand, a foot, or a nose.  It's who you are.  Just be yourself.  When Sunday comes, go to church.  When you eat, pray.  As you get closer to the person you're dating, invite them to your activities.

As a new convert, one thing I notice about many Mormons is they are very self-conscious about being Mormon.  So much so, they feel obliged to dump truck on you immediately.  You're you.  The dating process is an opportunity to get to know each other.  Just let it happen.

[eVa]

Speaking from experience, it is best to stay in the shallow end of the doctrine pool and keep a relationship where the influence of the Holy Spirit can be felt.  Focus on the similarities between the faiths, also be sure to not only invite him/her to LDS functions but, be willing to attend their services as well.  I agree with Grunt 100%, "be yourself."  Something you may try if you haven't already is to prepare your actions/words through prayer and scripture study so you are led by the Spirit.  Regardless of how difficult we may think it is for someone to grasp all the quirky aspects of our religion, it is the Spirit that converts the heart.  

[Jane_Doe]

I'm an LDS lady married to a non-LDS dude.  It is perfectly possible to have a happy inter-faith marriage, but you need to go into things with your eyes open.  My advice is below:

- before the 1st date, and every day after: be 200% clear on Law of Chasity stuff.  That will have must of the men of the world just skip out, which is just saving you time.  

- As @Grunt explained, just be yourself otherwise.  Being Mormon is just part of who you are.  And if a person can't handle that, then them skipping out is saving you time.

- Never try to change the person you are with, that includes in matters of culture, habits, and faith.  In you're not okay with being married to a cursing sailor (for example), then you shouldn't date one.  In you're not okay being married to a non-LDS person, then don't date one.  The WORST thing you can do is date a person hoping they will convert (that's unfair to you, them, and setting up for cheap relationships with each other / Christ).   So if you're going to date a non-LDS guy, you're going to need to be strong enough / willing to get yourself up out of bed every Sunday morning, get the kids ready, find the missing church shoe, and handle tantrums in the middle of Sacrament Meeting all by yourself-- while your husband is sitting on the couch, eating chips and watching a movie.  You need to be strong enough to say "hey kids, it's time to read scriptures together", all by yourself, without any resentment to your unhelping husband.  

I'm not saying this to scare you off-- as I said I myself am in a very happy interfaith marriage.  But you need to go into this with your eyes open.

[bananarchist]

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

I wouldn't "introduce" them at all.  Being Mormon isn't like having an alcoholic brother.  It's like having a left hand, a foot, or a nose.  It's who you are.  Just be yourself.  When Sunday comes, go to church.  When you eat, pray.  As you get closer to the person you're dating, invite them to your activities.

As a new convert, one thing I notice about many Mormons is they are very self-conscious about being Mormon.  So much so, they feel obliged to dump truck on you immediately.  You're you.  The dating process is an opportunity to get to know each other.  Just let it happen.

That's what I've always said. I know a lot of people who have LDS in their online profiles and bring it up as soon as they can. Being myself is a lot more my style, people eventually find out but I don't force it on them. It's the same with the law of chastity thing, I don't immediately dump it on people, I tend to wait until it comes up so I don't assume they're just there for sex. 

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, bananarchist said:

That's what I've always said. I know a lot of people who have LDS in their online profiles and bring it up as soon as they can. Being myself is a lot more my style, people eventually find out but I don't force it on them. It's the same with the law of chastity thing, I don't immediately dump it on people, I tend to wait until it comes up so I don't assume they're just there for sex. 

If it's not your style to have "I'm a Mormon" written on your FaceBook cover page, that's perfectly ok.  I would advice putting up a bright neon "No sex here" sign though before you start dating anyone though.  Putting up such a neon sign is not you assuming that they're only hanging out for sex (come on, if you were assuming that you would never go on a date).  But it is letting them know right away so they don't mistakingly assume anything.  

[bananarchist]

5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

If it's not your style to have "I'm a Mormon" written on your FaceBook cover page, that's perfectly ok.  I would advice putting up a bright neon "No sex here" sign though before you start dating anyone though.  Putting up such a neon sign is not you assuming that they're only hanging out for sex (come on, if you were assuming that you would never go on a date).  But it is letting them know right away so they don't mistakingly assume anything.  

I'm perfectly happy to bring that up, but I feel like that's not the kind of thing I get to on a first or second date. I try to show that more through my actions, i.e. not going too far physically or not telling them they can stay over at my house or something. I prefer to say something if that comes up, in which situation I'd be perfectly clear. And in response to the previous comment, I'm definitely the cursing sailor haha

Edited December 27, 2017 by bananarchist

[Grunt]

20 minutes ago, bananarchist said:

I'm perfectly happy to bring that up, but I feel like that's not the kind of thing I get to on a first or second date. I try to show that more through my actions, i.e. not going too far physically or not telling them they can stay over at my house or something. I prefer to say something if that comes up, in which situation I'd be perfectly clear. And in response to the previous comment, I'm definitely the cursing sailor haha

One of the podcasts I listen to has a host who occasionally talks about his dating experience, and he saved sex for marriage.  He treated every first date as an interview.   He was dating with the single objective of finding a spouse.  He'd discuss beliefs, politics, family, future goals, and pretty much everything else that was important for him to find in a spouse.  It worked for him.

[anatess2]

My 2 teen-age sons are known in their respective schools as "You mean the Mormon?".

As in...

I walk into my son's school and ask some random kid - "Do you know where I could find Anatess Jr.?" and the random kid answers, "Anatess Jr. the Mormon?  He's over at the studio next to the concert hall."

So yeah, you wanna date my kid, you know what you're getting into. 

So you might ask how you can introduce a future boyfriend to the Church... my answer is - if you "live" Mormon, you won't need to.  He'll know.

Edited December 27, 2017 by anatess2

[prisonchaplain]

The Law of Chastity should be a non-issue for the devout in any monotheistic faith. Muslims, Jews, and Christians of rigorous faith practice, agree on no sex before marriage. Likewise on LGBT issues. If a Christian is questioning your stance on sex and gender orientation/identity issues, you are likely dating someone with beliefs that a more different than you realize. Having said that, I just can't see becoming serious with someone that is not a marriage candidate. Meet the guy a few times, feel things out...but if you're serious about marrying in the temple, then you want a Mormon guy. If you are open to an interfaith relationship, then come to that realization. You will have more options. Decide for sure, though. The "oh well, we'll see what happens" route usually leaves people miserable. They have more freedom, but not the freedom to enjoy it. Then there's the vague guilt. So...be sure, and get peace about it from Father--before you get into serious dating.

[Jane_Doe]

5 hours ago, bananarchist said:

I'm perfectly happy to bring that up, but I feel like that's not the kind of thing I get to on a first or second date. I try to show that more through my actions, i.e. not going too far physically or not telling them they can stay over at my house or something. I prefer to say something if that comes up, in which situation I'd be perfectly clear. And in response to the previous comment, I'm definitely the cursing sailor haha

When it comes to sex, speaking with words AND actions is the best choice.  

For me, when I was dating age, some men, even some good "Christian" men, simply expected to have sex, including some literally on the first date.  Others expected to have sex after a while as part of "normal" relationship.  Obviously I thoroughly disagreed.  Rather than give them have any illusion that "maybe she'll change her mind next date" (cause many dudes hope that), I found it was best to make things super clear super early.  I made it clear (with words and actions) that I did not believe it was "healthy" for a dating couple (however serious) to be involved in those things.  It greatly implied things and reduced pain for me and them.

[prisonchaplain]

@Jane_Doe (and others who wish to chime in):  What does it mean for the LDS single who marries a non-LDS guy? What exactly is sacrificed (other than the desired temple marriage)?  For Evangelicals, marrying outside the Christian faith means an act of disobedience has been committed. Otherwise, it's all the questions and difficulties that are typical when two drastically different people marry: One parent is not in church each week. The believer is left constantly striking a balance between offering unconditional (christlike) love, and praying for/exemplifying a life worthy of following (i.e. that his/her spouse will convert), and, of course answering the questions the children will have as they grow up seeing two different spiritual lives lived out before them.

Edited December 28, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

@Jane_Doe (and others who wish to chime in):  What does it mean for the LDS single who marries a non-LDS guy? What exactly is sacrificed (other than the desired temple marriage)?  For Evangelicals, marrying outside the Christian faith means an act of disobedience has been committed. Otherwise, it's all the questions and difficulties that are typical when two drastically different people marry: One parent is not in church each week. The believer is left constantly striking a balance between offering unconditional (christlike) love, and praying for/exemplifying a life worthy of following (i.e. that his/her spouse will convert), and, of course answering the questions the children will have as they grow up seeing two different spiritual lives lived out before them.

LDS don't see marrying an non-LDS person as being a sin.  It does of course present challenges of having to go to church alone, teach alone, etc.  And the need for constant communication (which is true for all marriages, but especially for inter-faith ones).  And then there's the matters if other spouse is actively sinning/inviting sin into the home.  If morals differ (as well as faith), then that's a whole second layer of challenges.

Note: LDS believe *all* marriages will eventually be sealed.  Though, of course it's nice to have this joy sooner rather than later.  

[Dream Weaver]

As a Christian female myself, I would like to have a relationship with a man of God, which to me means believing in the biblical scripture, (not the Book of Mormon), so if one is LDS and one is another Christian denomination, why can't you both read and study biblical scripture and pray based on biblical truth.  The disconnect for me is the Book of Mormon.  But LDS is supposed to be a "Christian" Jesus believing religion, so that should bring 2 people together that believe in Jesus being the savior...shouldn't it?  Isn't that what all Christian denominations believe or supposed to be about???  That should be the common denominator.  But I think many people and religions go off the tracks in their own direction.

[anatess2]

15 minutes ago, Dream Weaver said:

As a Christian female myself, I would like to have a relationship with a man of God, which to me means believing in the biblical scripture, (not the Book of Mormon), so if one is LDS and one is another Christian denomination, why can't you both read and study biblical scripture and pray based on biblical truth.  The disconnect for me is the Book of Mormon.  But LDS is supposed to be a "Christian" Jesus believing religion, so that should bring 2 people together that believe in Jesus being the savior...shouldn't it?  Isn't that what all Christian denominations believe or supposed to be about???  That should be the common denominator.  But I think many people and religions go off the tracks in their own direction.

Yes, it should.  But marriage involves more than just agreement.  It involves "living your faith".  For example:  Christian Living requires that we live in accordance to what Christ taught.  The non-LDS Christian and the LDS Christian do not have the same belief on what Marriage means.  So it becomes a challenge because the non-LDS Christian prevents the LDS Christian from temple marriage.  Then there's the covenants - LDS covenant not to drink alcohol, coffee, and tea, not to smoke cigarettes, cigars, marijuana, don't engage in unrighteous entertainment, observe the Sabbath, etc. etc.  Non-LDS Christians do not hold those same covenants.  Then there's the family-oriented structure of the LDS organization - husbands are the priesthood authority in the home, children are to be raised up in righteousness, etc.  Then there's the callings - serving in the Church, teaching members of the church in their homes, etc.

These major differences in lifestyle can become a big strain on a marriage.

Edited January 12, 2018 by anatess2

[Vort]

43 minutes ago, Dream Weaver said:

As a Christian female myself, I would like to have a relationship with a man of God, which to me means believing in the biblical scripture, (not the Book of Mormon), so if one is LDS and one is another Christian denomination, why can't you both read and study biblical scripture and pray based on biblical truth.  The disconnect for me is the Book of Mormon.  But LDS is supposed to be a "Christian" Jesus believing religion, so that should bring 2 people together that believe in Jesus being the savior...shouldn't it?  Isn't that what all Christian denominations believe or supposed to be about???  That should be the common denominator.  But I think many people and religions go off the tracks in their own direction.

I don't disagree with the gist of what you say. But when I recall the teachings of Paul about being "unequally yoked", I think there's more at play here than simply being kind to each other.

[Jane_Doe]

(Answering this as an LDS lady married to an Evangelical dude)

1 hour ago, Dream Weaver said:

As a Christian female myself, I would like to have a relationship with a man of God, which to me means believing in the biblical scripture, (not the Book of Mormon), so if one is LDS and one is another Christian denomination, why can't you both read and study biblical scripture and pray based on biblical truth. 

We do indeed do this, as do LDS couples.  For example, many LDS couples are reading through the OT together this year, as it's the topic of Sunday School.

1 hour ago, Dream Weaver said:

The disconnect for me is the Book of Mormon.  But LDS is supposed to be a "Christian" Jesus believing religion, so that should bring 2 people together that believe in Jesus being the savior...shouldn't it?  Isn't that what all Christian denominations believe or supposed to be about???  That should be the common denominator.  But I think many people and religions go off the tracks in their own direction.

Both believing in Christ is critically important-- that is the foundation of all Christian faith, and all lives lived by Christians.  

But there's more to faith than the foundation, and it is very nice to be on all the same pages with your spouse.  To have a spouse that goes to church with you, supports you in your faith based decisions, teachings your children alongside you, etc.   That applies to all people of all faiths (not just LDS-Christian or Christian in general).  I would say the same thing if talking to a Lutheran marrying a Baptist.  

Now, zooming into LDS specifically: the importance of having an enteral family, and being committed to your spouse not just till death, but forever: that's also a huge deal.  

Edited January 12, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[NightSG]

On 12/27/2017 at 10:17 AM, Jane_Doe said:

- Never try to change the person you are with, that includes in matters of culture, habits, and faith.

This should go without saying, and applies to everything; not just religious issues.  That doesn't mean you can't hope that some things will change; people do change over time, and maybe that annoying habit is on their to-do list, but always work from the assumption that nothing will change, and anything you put pressure on them to change is likely to revert at some point.

Quote

So if you're going to date a non-LDS guy, you're going to need to be strong enough / willing to get yourself up out of bed every Sunday morning, get the kids ready, find the missing church shoe, and handle tantrums in the middle of Sacrament Meeting all by yourself-- while your husband is sitting on the couch, eating chips and watching a movie.  You need to be strong enough to say "hey kids, it's time to read scriptures together", all by yourself, without any resentment to your unhelping husband.  

Gee, bitter much?  I know plenty of Baptists who spend more time in prayer and Bible study than most LDS.  I seriously doubt even a professional infidel like prisonchaplain spends a lot of Sunday mornings lounging on the couch in his whitey-tighties with a six pack of Old Milwaukee and a cheap cigar watching nudie movies just because he's not Mormon.

On 12/27/2017 at 6:53 AM, Grunt said:

I wouldn't "introduce" them at all.  Being Mormon isn't like having an alcoholic brother. 

Yeah; an alcoholic brother doesn't guarantee you poorly timed monthly visits from the rest of the town's drunks showing up to offer you a beer.

On 12/27/2017 at 6:01 PM, prisonchaplain said:

Otherwise, it's all the questions and difficulties that are typical when two drastically different people marry: One parent is not in church each week.

I've never even seen that outside of LDS; growing up Methodist, you'd have a few people who come to church alone most of the month, but disappear one Sunday, and another, their spouse shows up.  They trade off attending each other's churches once a month.  Once in a while, one will convert to the other's faith, and I can't help but think the attitude of true mutual respect contributes a lot to that.  LDS, on the other hand, the ones that show up alone are always alone, and don't skip any weeks to attend with their spouse either.

On 12/27/2017 at 8:36 PM, Jane_Doe said:

And then there's the matters if other spouse is actively sinning/inviting sin into the home.  If morals differ (as well as faith), then that's a whole second layer of challenges.

Sinning by whose definition?  Is it really a problem if someone with an LDS spouse has a beer with dinner?  Smokes?  If so, do you consider McDonalds to be a den of iniquity because so many people who don't hold the same beliefs are drinking coffee there?

Quote

Note: LDS believe *all* marriages will eventually be sealed.  Though, of course it's nice to have this joy sooner rather than later.  

Some seem to lack this faith, though.

2 hours ago, Dream Weaver said:

As a Christian female myself, I would like to have a relationship with a man of God, which to me means believing in the biblical scripture, (not the Book of Mormon), so if one is LDS and one is another Christian denomination, why can't you both read and study biblical scripture and pray based on biblical truth.

You might want to go make sure there's nothing in your profile that can be used to track you down before some of the people here show up to burn you at the stake for heresy.

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

The non-LDS Christian and the LDS Christian do not have the same belief on what Marriage means. 

One of the most impressive answers I've heard to a question of doctrinal specifics was "how will the answer affect your behavior?"  That's what a lot of things come down to; do your actions in following the Savior actually change depending on whether He had a brother?  Outside of a relatively few denominations that have vastly different views of the roles of husband and wife, the basic actions of marriage - love, respect, be faithful to and help each other, counsel together on family issues, etc. - stay the same across Christianity.  Beyond that, how do doctrinal differences actually affect your behavior in the relationship?

Quote

So it becomes a challenge because the non-LDS Christian prevents the LDS Christian from temple marriage.  Then there's the covenants - LDS covenant not to drink alcohol, coffee, and tea, not to smoke cigarettes, cigars, marijuana, don't engage in unrighteous entertainment, observe the Sabbath, etc. etc.  Non-LDS Christians do not hold those same covenants. 

And when you don't cherry-pick the list, plenty of LDS disregard a number of the things they have covenanted to do.  Do you "comfort those who stand in need of comfort" at every opportunity, (even if you don't particularly like them) or do you parrot some unhelpful platitude, refer them to the bishop and look for any excuse to duck out of the situation?  I'm pretty sure, on the final tally, killing a fifth of bourbon and a carton of Marlboros while watching a Tarantino movie marathon will count less against you than failing to comfort someone who needs it when you can.

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I don't disagree with the gist of what you say. But when I recall the teachings of Paul about being "unequally yoked", I think there's more at play here than simply being kind to each other.

See above; with the exception of Satanists and atheists, we're all pretty much guilty of some level of hypocrisy.  Who is really more unequally yoked; a 85% LDS and a 85% Lutheran, or a 85% LDS and a 10% LDS?  (How we assign piety vs hypocrisy percentages could be a book unto itself, but let's assume for the moment the abusive spouse who maintains a perfect public image is somewhere around a 10%.)

49 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

We do indeed do this, as do LDS couples.  For example, many LDS couples are reading through the OT together this year, as it's the topic of Sunday School.

See above; sanitize your profile before they can get the torches made.

[Jane_Doe]

20 minutes ago, NightSG said:

This should go without saying, and applies to everything; not just religious issues.  That doesn't mean you can't hope that some things will change; people do change over time, and maybe that annoying habit is on their to-do list, but always work from the assumption that nothing will change, and anything you put pressure on them to change is likely to revert at some point.

Yep

20 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Gee, bitter much?  I know plenty of Baptists who spend more time in prayer and Bible study than most LDS.  I seriously doubt even a professional infidel like prisonchaplain spends a lot of Sunday mornings lounging on the couch in his whitey-tighties with a six pack of Old Milwaukee and a cheap cigar watching nudie movies just because he's not Mormon.

Not bitter at all, nor exaggerating about cigars.  I do this every Sunday, without resentment (I'm extremely happily married).  But I know it's not for everyone, and you should go into things with your eyes open. 

20 minutes ago, NightSG said:

I've never even seen that outside of LDS; growing up Methodist, you'd have a few people who come to church alone most of the month, but disappear one Sunday, and another, their spouse shows up.  They trade off attending each other's churches once a month.  Once in a while, one will convert to the other's faith, and I can't help but think the attitude of true mutual respect contributes a lot to that.  LDS, on the other hand, the ones that show up alone are always alone, and don't skip any weeks to attend with their spouse either.

I do know LDS-nonLDS marriages that do this too. 

[anatess2]

10 hours ago, NightSG said:

One of the most impressive answers I've heard to a question of doctrinal specifics was "how will the answer affect your behavior?"  That's what a lot of things come down to; do your actions in following the Savior actually change depending on whether He had a brother?  Outside of a relatively few denominations that have vastly different views of the roles of husband and wife, the basic actions of marriage - love, respect, be faithful to and help each other, counsel together on family issues, etc. - stay the same across Christianity.  Beyond that, how do doctrinal differences actually affect your behavior in the relationship?

 

YUGE difference when it comes to one's understanding of what Marriage is.  Especially between Catholics and non-Catholics (divorce is not an option) and the same with LDS and non-LDS (temple covenants).  These 2 main differences alone drastically affect how you resolve problems in a marriage and how you approach the marriage covenant itself.  This goes beyond behavior and into cultural divergence.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

There really is a big difference IN THIS LIFE between a marriage and family that are sealed together than a family who is not.  Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.  But I know this from personal experience.  Take it as you will.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

It's such a complicated issue. You should marry for life, but life is almost never a straight line from point A-B. Perhaps you marry an LDS girl at 24 and then she becomes an atheist at 30. Or you marry a good Catholic man at 24 and he becomes LDS in his mid thirties. You just never know. Religion is certainly something to take into deep consideration while dating, but you need to keep an open mind. 

[NightSG]

11 hours ago, anatess2 said:

YUGE difference when it comes to one's understanding of what Marriage is.  Especially between Catholics and non-Catholics (divorce is not an option)

There's always murder.  (With the benefit that, unlike a divorce hearing, a man can be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a murder trial.)

10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

There really is a big difference IN THIS LIFE between a marriage and family that are sealed together than a family who is not.

Considering that one of the few I'm closely familiar with has resulted in the (raised in the Church) wife and four of the five kids effectively apostasizing, (she claims to still believe, but doesn't act in accordance with any Christian beliefs I've ever heard of, much less LDS, and the fifth kid is still living with dad so he my well be faking it until he can leave) I'm not sure that difference is as real or as big as you think.  And for that matter, of the ones that have held it together, too many have attributed it to the same things that keep bad marriages together elsewhere; men don't want to lose their kids and women don't want to lose the financial stability.  I've never yet heard one say that they're toughing out a hard time because they're sealed to each other.  (Plenty will say that after things get better, though.)

8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

It's such a complicated issue. You should marry for life, but life is almost never a straight line from point A-B. Perhaps you marry an LDS girl at 24 and then she becomes an atheist at 30. Or you marry a good Catholic man at 24 and he becomes LDS in his mid thirties. You just never know. Religion is certainly something to take into deep consideration while dating, but you need to keep an open mind. 

And if your life is a straight path from A-B, you should become very angry with the Lord; He has deemed you so utterly incompetent at even just living that He doesn't trust you with any sort of challenge at all.

(Where's the popcorn smiley?  That always gets those too-pampered Mollies either crying or babbling like idiots trying to explain how they're just so faithful that He never does anything really bad to them...or almost as amusingly, trying to claim they know hardship because the nail salon closed early and the heated seats in the Mercedes aren't working right.)

[SilentOne]

19 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Where's the popcorn smiley?

If you start typing "popcorn" in the search bar in the emoticon menu, it should come up.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, NightSG said:

Considering that one of the few I'm closely familiar with has resulted in the (raised in the Church) wife and four of the five kids effectively apostasizing,...

1

You're looking at the wrong apples if you're trying to do an apples-to-apples comparison.  There's nothing about 'faithfulness' or "sticking together" in my statement that you quoted.  I simply said there was a big difference.  You assumed that you understood what I meant by that difference.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Guest