the Ogre

Hatch (R-Utah) Is Retiring

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According to the Deseretnews, Sen. Hatch is retiring.

I know not everyone here is from Utah, but this is kinda big news even for Latter-day Saints not in Utah since Hatch is easily the most powerful member of the church in government here in the United States. As the senate pro tem, he is also the most powerful senator in the US. For me, I like him very much, but I am glad he is stepping aside. I hope Romney runs for his seat. We need another voice that will counter Trump's more stupid annunciations in the senate.

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If Romney decides to run I hope he loses BIGLY!  He lost my respect.  It's one thing to disagree with Trump and even point to his Hollywood morality like Ben Shapiro does.  It's another thing to actively SIDE WITH THE ENEMY which Ben Shapiro doesn't.

Romney tried to disrupt the election by using CIA agent McMullin  (the IA corruption unraveling brings THIS specific thing suspect) and even PRAISED and DEFENDED ANTIFA!  I have the FB posts to prove it!

In my book, Romney is about as good politically as Harry Reid.  If you're a Democrat, go vote for them.

The Trump Administration Foreign Policy is proving to be EXACTLY as Trump promised which I hoped.  Changes in the world are going in the right direction currently with the recent uprising in Iran just another event in the right direction.  Hatch is a good ally of Trump.  Romney with his SHAMELESS push for Secretary of State WILL work to UNRAVEL ALL THIS.  I have a strong suspicion this is Romney's play - why he's gone Never Trumper - he is neck deep in the deep state globalist agenda and owes somebody something - possibly within the Intelligence Agencies.

When I worked on his campaign in 2012, he was not my first choice.  Gingrich was.  I knew Romney was not conservative but I hoped he will at least stop the Bush-Obama globalist agenda.  Now, I realize he's not going to be any different.  I hope Utah is not pro-globalist.  But, heck, it's Utah.  They'll vote Romney because he's a good Mormon.

Edited by anatess2

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Romney would win BIGLY in Utah. I am glad someone had the guts to stand up to Trump during the election. I believe that time will tell that Romney was/is right (at least for most people, those on the far right may never see it or admit it). And it's not just because he is a Mormon. I would vote for him Mormon or not. 

Edited by miav

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I won’t vote for Romney, because I think he was playing a much more weaselly and short-sighted game than @anatess2 gives him credit for.

Do I think Romney’s discomfiture at Trump’s motives and tactics is sincere?  Sure.  But Romney’s NeverTrumpism seems calculated to generate heat rather than light—he was unable to unify NeverTrump into a politically viable movement, even within Utah itself (which is a pretty stupendous failure for a man of Romney’s reputation and talents); rumor has it that he was responsible for a number of other prominent Utah/LDS politicos failing to coalesce around McMullin or some other non-Trump candidate (far from creating McMullin, I think Romney basically shanked him because he didn’t want to see McMullin coming into Utah política in 2018 with any sort of momentum); and Romney muted his criticisms of Trump awfully quickly when it looked like a cabinet post might be in the offing.  And this business of Mitt running for Hatch’s seat, when just two years ago everyone was talking about his boy Josh running for the same post, is just animal-crackers.  I don’t think Mitt’s playing some devious single-minded long game; I think he’s awkwardly trying to trim his sails in response to shifting winds.

I have a hard time fathoming the sort of hatred for Romney that some others seem to feel for him.  But as far as politics goes, I think his moment has passed.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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I like Romney the man, I like his policies and ideology.  I like Trump's policies (so far).  I do not like Trump the man, but his "show" is working brilliantly.   Romney has no "show".  He just is.  And he doesn't get that Trump is a showman.  So, he made himself look foolish.  I am also not a Utahn, so I have no horse in this race, but I do think this is Romney's seat if he wants it, for two reasons. 1) Based on my discussions with Utahns, they don't like Trump, at all.  They love Romney.   McCain got 60% of the Utah vote, Romney got 91%.  Trump got 45%.   So, even if you think Romney blew it with Trump supporters, the voters in Utah show they agree with Romney.  They do not like Trump.   and 2) The 2002 Olympics.

Edited by bytebear

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I don't think that Romney being a former Stake President hurts either, but I also think his involvement in the Olympics is more of a draw for the state.  Whenever anyone says they like him because he's a Mormon, I think of Harry Reid who couldn't win dog catcher in the state.   And, frankly, I wasn't all that impressed with Hatch's Mormondom, and feel like if push came to shove, he choose politics over religion.  Ironically, I think Romney would choose religion over politics.

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1 minute ago, mirkwood said:

Romney doesn't think anyone has seen God since Moses and the burning bush. 

Yea, not voting for someone who can't stand up for his faith.

What makes you think that? Romney obviously must have said something to this effect. What was it?

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Guest MormonGator
1 minute ago, mirkwood said:

Romney doesn't think anyone has seen God since Moses and the burning bush. 

Yea, not voting for someone who can't stand up for his faith.

This coming from the guy who donated $2,500 to Hillary in 2016. 

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@Vort:  he answered a Boston reporter's question about the possibility of divine revelation conflicting with his duties as president by saying, "I don't recall God speaking to me. I don't know that he's spoken to anyone since Moses in the [Burning] Bush." Romney quickly added "or perhaps others,"

 

You can jump ahead to 0:47 and it follows shortly after.

 

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10 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

@Vort:  he answered a Boston reporter's question about the possibility of divine revelation conflicting with his duties as president by saying, "I don't recall God speaking to me. I don't know that he's spoken to anyone since Moses in the [Burning] Bush." Romney quickly added "or perhaps others,"

 

You can jump ahead to 0:47 and it follows shortly after.

 

Welllllll...

I agree that's pretty weaselly, but I would not call such a half-hearted, mealy mouthed reply a denial of our faith's tenet. More like a clumsy attempt to have one's cake and eat it, too, in response to an inappropriate and bigoted question by a reporter. It's easy to find fault with such a response -- I certainly find fault with it -- but I don't consider that a denial of the faith.

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Romney will win of course, but I don't view it as the slam dunk it wold have been 8-10 years ago. Utah is changing (not an insult, demographics show it). This isn't the same Utah where 85% of the population are practicing, active LDS. And with the GOP split between Trumpers and grown up republicans, he could have a tough primary. Again, I think he'll win-but it might be harder than we think. 

Edited by MormonGator

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15 hours ago, mirkwood said:

I view it as a denial of The First Vision.

I find that there are many in the church these days that have similar ideas to Romney. These individuals do not so much have a testimony in the LDS church (though they will answer all the Temple Recommend questions in the "right" way), as much as they feel the church has good things about it and attend for the good morality they agree with.  Some of these do not believe in Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon, and I've seen some of them (such as Mitt Romney perhaps) be called to some local prominent church leadership positions (such as Bishops and Stake Presidents).  I am happy that even if they lack a strong testimony, they still strive to go to church, attend meetings, participate in ordinances, and strive to do good and be good Mormons in most instances.

Of course, that does not mean this is what Romney actually believes or that he is one of this group of individuals.

It may be more a thing of moral courage and fiber.  It can be hard, not just for him in his position, but any of us, to stand up and say the right thing at the right time in all positions.  He could have had this interview as a strong missionary moment where he related the story of Joseph Smith.  Unfortunately, he may have seen that as something the general public would take badly and he would be portrayed badly in the media or otherwise and hence, rather than discussing this aspect of the church chose his answer otherwise.  In this, it may have nothing to do with what he actually believes, but more a lack of courage in the moment to say something else.

I don't know what I would have said in his same situation, and I know that there would probably be a great amount of pressure on any of us in the same situation.  In that light, my own thoughts are that I won't judge him for a single statement like that in an interview where there obviously was a tremendous amount of pressure upon him on what to say and how to say it.  Politics can be a very hard thing on moral caliber and public judgment.  Each of us might say something we didn't mean in the exact way we stated it, or mean one thing but it comes out another in media interviews.  Even Gordon B. Hinckley who was well versed in the Gospel and the media has had some things questioned at times by members in various media interviews he gave during his time as an apostle and later as a prophet.  None of us are perfect.

That said, I don't know if I would vote for Romney or not as my representative if he were in my state.  I see him as having more representative experience of the values of the Northeast rather than anywhere else.  By running elsewhere I see it more as political opportunistic grabs rather than a true representation of those who have lived there for most of their lives.  Let those who are FROM their state represent their State.

I think that's the biggest obstacle I would have in regards to Romney (and one I had in regards to the Clinton when she ran and got office).  It smells more of political opportunism from someone with a political career rather than someone who is actually going to represent the interests of those who have lived in a state for the purpose of actually living there for a life and home.

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On 1/3/2018 at 3:53 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

I won’t vote for Romney, because I think he was playing a much more weaselly and short-sighted game than @anatess2 gives him credit for.

Do I think Romney’s discomfiture at Trump’s motives and tactics is sincere?  Sure.  But Romney’s NeverTrumpism seems calculated to generate heat rather than light—he was unable to unify NeverTrump into a politically viable movement, even within Utah itself (which is a pretty stupendous failure for a man of Romney’s reputation and talents); rumor has it that he was responsible for a number of other prominent Utah/LDS politicos failing to coalesce around McMullin or some other non-Trump candidate (far from creating McMullin, I think Romney basically shanked him because he didn’t want to see McMullin coming into Utah política in 2018 with any sort of momentum); and Romney muted his criticisms of Trump awfully quickly when it looked like a cabinet post might be in the offing.  And this business of Mitt running for Hatch’s seat, when just two years ago everyone was talking about his boy Josh running for the same post, is just animal-crackers.  I don’t think Mitt’s playing some devious single-minded long game; I think he’s awkwardly trying to trim his sails in response to shifting winds.

I have a hard time fathoming the sort of hatred for Romney that some others seem to feel for him.  But as far as politics goes, I think his moment has passed.

I'm thinking about this and I'm not so sure it's as simple as that.

So, okay...  this may be possible::  He wanted to run again - that's a fact.  He tested the waters (before Trump rode the escalator) and it wasn't favorable so he didn't declare.  Then he saw Trump decimate seasoned Republicans in the Primaries.  Maybe he thought - man!  If Trump can win, I sure can!  But it was too late for him to declare so he tried to do some shenanigans with the RNC to try to have nobody win - so he can get himself inserted.  (He could have solidly endorsed Cruz or Kasich but he didn't).  That failed.  So he floated McMullin (I'm very convinced McMullin ran at the behest of Romney - too many Romney connections to ignore) to try to prevent both Clinton and Trump from gaining 270 votes so his boy Paul Ryan can insert him in the process.  That failed.  So he weasled for Sec of State.  That failed.  So now he's gunning for Senator...  so, he's just desperate for political relevance?   Ambition?   This goes waaaay beyond "wanting to restore the dignity of the Republican party".

That still doesn't explain his defense of Antifa.

I don't hate Romney.  I just think he's a bad political candidate.  He's not really conservative in the same manner that Bush is not really conservative.  And he abandons principles just to spite Trump.  The way things are going right now - Trump has shifted government decidedly to the right.  This is a good direction.  Romney being the anti-Trump will be a roadblock to that direction.

But, of course.  If Utah doesn't like the direction government is currently taking, then they can vote to stop it.

 

Edited by anatess2

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A little Utah history.  About 30 years ago a fine-looking lady named Karen Shephard (Democrat) ran for congress (house) against an obvious twit named Eda Green (Republican).  Karen ran on the principal that she would represent the “wonderful” people of Utah – she bragged that Utahans were good people with high standards that she supported and loved.  Karen won in a landslide – even I voted for her.   But here is the problem – the democratic party has a lot of ideas and standards that are way (really way) different than the majority of Utah residents. 

There came before the house a bill that just about every Utahan found repulsive.  It has been so long I do not recall the exact issue but polls in Utah showed that 90% were against the bill.  But the bill was a democrat bill and we have learned how democrats act in congress.   Karen announced her support for the bill and her phone lines locked up with all the please do not vote for the bill requests.  Karen had a press conference and announced that she could not vote against her conscience.   Really???? – why didn’t she tell the voters her conscience during the election?

Here is the lesson – there are not good or bad politicians representing their constituents.   Let me rephrase that – politicians do not represent constituents!  They represent their party first – second they represent the money that got them elected.  What determines the quality of a politician (with most voters) is how well they can deceive their constituents into believing that they give a D—m about them.

I do not believe Romney knows (or cares) any more about Utah other than it is great place for an outdoor vacation (including winter Olympics) and a LDS university (where good LDS members – like him, myself and others – can find really wonderful {the world’s best} spouses – also known as the happy hunting ground). 

If you are a fine corporate executive and wish to buy a congressman to support your corporate agenda, you will likely find some competition in the state your particular corporation has its headquarters.  So many corporate types look for a bargain congressman in some off the beaten path – Podunk state – like Wyoming, Nevada or – could you believe it --- Utah!!! 

Romney has already been bought and sold to Eastern Interests.  He is their grand bargain and easy shoe in.  The republicans will not run anyone else and the Democrats will only try another Karen Shephard – thinking that since Romney got in that Utahans are as dumb as the rocks that make up our mountains. 

My prediction? – Romney will win and Utah will continue to have no representation in the Senate. 

 

The Traveler  

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Random lols!

Lol:  https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10156712805285725/

Lol (with a bad word up front): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pJTn5n1jKg

Lol: A guy I talk to on the internet, says his wife's Grandma was a temple worker in Boston, and she saw Mitt Romney attend the temple back when he was governor.  (This is a genuine statement.  We have a legitimate fourth-hand account of Romney going to the temple.)

 

Edited by NeuroTypical

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Random lols!

Lol:  https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10156712805285725/

Lol (with a bad word up front): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pJTn5n1jKg

Lol: A guy I talk to on the internet, says his wife's Grandma was a temple worker in Boston, and she saw Mitt Romney attend the temple back when he was governor.  (This is a genuine statement.  We have a legitimate fourth-hand account of Romney going to the temple.)

 

One of his homes is in the region where my parents live and I grew up in. I saw him at ward services once. Very, very nice guy, but I only "met" him for thirty seconds. 

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Random lols!

Lol:  https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10156712805285725/

Lol (with a bad word up front): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pJTn5n1jKg

Lol: A guy I talk to on the internet, says his wife's Grandma was a temple worker in Boston, and she saw Mitt Romney attend the temple back when he was governor.  (This is a genuine statement.  We have a legitimate fourth-hand account of Romney going to the temple.)

 

Oh, oh, oh!  Romney sightings!  He attended our ward while campaigning in Florida in the 2012 elections.  Sonic boom!

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Guest MormonGator
48 minutes ago, eVa said:

This site has everything!  Thanks!

 

You are very welcome my friend. I've been checking out that site for over 15 years now. 

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