Lie, Misunderstanding, or Blunt Truth

[clbent04]

I’ve crippled myself to the point that getting out of the spiritual rut I’m in seems hopeless. Whether it be one of Satan’s lies I’ve come to believe based on my own life experience, a simple misunderstanding of the gospel and how the Lord will judge us, or even a blunt truth about life, the following lists why I feel unable or unwilling to get back on track. I don’t want to stay like this. I want to get back on track for myself, my wife and daughter to grow and progress in the Church, but it’s as if I’ve boxed myself in. The simple solutions to my problems like prayer don’t seem like solutions at all to me. Nothing seems to work for me.  

Overcoming the battle of lust has been the crux of my issue after trying so many times only to fail once more, but it’s compounded from there. If I could overcome the battle of lust once and for all, I believe that would give me hope in other areas I’m struggling in. I would be able to see for the first time in my life that the gospel works for me personally.

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #1
-I’m not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom. I just don’t have enough resolve, determination, faith... I’m not nor ever will be of Celestial caliber. I’m not spiritual enough. 

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #2
-No one can make it to the Celestial Kingdom who has not mastered being a righteous steward with the powers of procreation in this life. If you leave this world in a state where you still abuse the powers of procreation (willingly lusting in your heart, pornography...), then you are automatically cut off from the Celestial Kingdom as the Law of Chasity is a very strict and serious law. There is less lenience and mercy that the Lord can afford with this law in comparison to others

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #3
-Praying to God is ineffective and a waste of my time. Every time I think of praying to God now I’m reminded of how my most sincere prayers have been left unanswered. 

Example 1: I prayed to overcome the battle of lust for years. Yet I’ve never been able to overcome it. 

Example 2: After my parents passed away, my little sister was accepted to BYU and began her freshman year at 18 years old. At a local gym in Provo, she met a 37 year old man who worked there as a trainer and had hidden intentions of meeting a younger girl and leaving his wife, and essentially abandoning his 6 children to start a new life with someone else. I knew my little sister, being in the vulnerable state that she was, was an easy target to be manipulated by someone like that. My older sister and I got wind of some of these developments that our little sister and this older man were developing a relationship. We flew out to Provo immediately to put an end to this relationship by exposing this man’s dual life to our little sister. We contacted his home ward bishop and his wife so that we could bring my little sister to meet them face-to-face to help her see the whole picture.

For a brief moment we actually got through to my little sister after meeting with the bishop and the man’s wife. She was willing to leave BYU since by her own admission she wouldn’t be strong enough to stay away from this man if he continued to contact her. We started making the arrangements to pull her out, but then her guardian, a member back in Texas that took my little sister in after our parents died, told us we shouldn’t take her out of Provo, that my little sister should stay because whether in Provo or somewhere else she needed to prove to herself she could do it. It was hard advice to follow, but her guardian was a good mom to 4 kids of her own and a seasoned member in the Church, so we decided to trust this advice considering my older sister and I had never been parents ourselves and had little to no idea what effective parenting was.

I remember during the 2-3 days we were there in Provo, I fasted for the entire duration pleading with the Lord to please watch over and protect my little sister, and to help this man not abandon his family. I prayed on my knees with my sisters in my little sister’s apartment room. I’ve never prayed so hard in my life thanking the Lord that we were able to reach my little sister before the relationship between her and this man had developed any further. I remember praying fervently to God that He would watch over her and protect her, and that she would be given the strength needed to overcome this trial. We left our little sister there in Provo.

And long story short, the relationship developed once more. Once my little sister was fully committed to this man, he officially left his wife and 6 kids there in Utah, finalized the divorce, and had a Vegas wedding. My little sister and this man now live on the East coast, and just last year or two I was able to reestablish connection with her after being so distraught by the whole episode.

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #4
-Going to church and all the other checklist items is meaningless if I’ve already self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom. And how can I teach my family about Mormonism if I personally don’t have hope in the system?

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by clbent04

[Guest]

If you're that low, you need to start low.  You can't expect to achieve Celestial level perfection in one step. 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not claiming to be perfect or necessarily placing myself above you.  But you asked for help and I'm going to try giving it the best I can because I've been in your shoes.

First, you need to humble yourself.  Being depressed or recognizing you're lacking is not the same as humbling yourself before the Lord.  Humbling yourself before the Lord means that you have to start with "I don't know."  You have stated multiple times that you don't understand this or that.  But you actually say it with the assumption that you already know a lot of things.  Blunt truth (please take this the right way) you don't know very much at all.  Or more correctly, you've learned an awful lot that is incorrect.  Acknowledge this first.  Then move on to actually learning the truth.

As you learn, do your best to find sources of knowledge that you know you can trust.  Seek out confirmation from the Spirit in ALL THINGS.  Where the Spirit doesn't seem to be communicating, just do the best you can.  Seek counsel of mortals you believe you can trust.  No matter how flawed this method may be, the most important thing is that you are always just doing the best you can.

If you can get there, then you're ready for more.  But start with this.

[brlenox]

25 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I’ve crippled myself to the point that getting out of the spiritual rut I’m in seems hopeless. Whether it be one of Satan’s lies I’ve come to believe based on my own life experience, a simple misunderstanding of the gospel and how the Lord will judge us, or even a blunt truth about life, the following lists why I feel unable or unwilling to get back on track. I don’t want to stay like this. I want to get back on track for myself, my wife and daughter to grow and progress in the Church, but it’s as if I’ve boxed myself in. The simple solutions to my problems like prayer don’t seem like solutions at all to me. Nothing seems to work for me.  Overcoming the battle of lust has been the crux of my issue after trying so many times only to fail once more, but it’s compounded from there. If I could overcome the battle of lust once and for all, I believe that would give me hope in other areas I’m struggling in. I would be able to see for the first time in my life that the gospel works for me personally.

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #1
-I’m not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom. I just don’t have enough resolve, determination, faith... I’m not nor ever will be of Celestial caliber. I’m not spiritual enough. 

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #2
-No one can make it to the Celestial Kingdom who has not mastered being a righteous steward with the powers of procreation in this life. If you leave this world in a state where you still abuse the powers of procreation (willingly lusting in your heart, pornography...), then you are automatically cut off from the Celestial Kingdom as the Law of Chasity is a very strict and serious law. There is less lenience and mercy that the Lord can afford with this law in comparison to others

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #3
-Praying to God is ineffective and a waste of my time. Every time I think of praying to God now I’m reminded of how my most sincere prayers have been left unanswered. 

Example 1: I prayed to overcome the battle of lust for years. Yet I’ve never been able to overcome it. 

Example 2: After my parents passed away, my little sister was accepted to BYU and began her freshman year at 18 years old. At a local gym in Provo, she met a 37 year old man who worked there as a trainer and had hidden intentions of meeting a younger girl and leaving his wife, and essentially abandoning his 6 children to start a new life with someone else. I knew my little sister, being in the vulnerable state that she was, was an easy target to be manipulated by someone like that. My older sister and I got wind of some of these developments that our little sister and this older man were developing a relationship. We flew out to Provo immediately to put an end to this relationship by exposing this man’s dual life to our little sister. We contacted his home ward bishop and his wife so that we could bring my little sister to meet  them face-to-face to help her she the whole picture. For a brief moment we actually got through to my little sister after meeting with the bishop and the man’s wife. She was willing to leave BYU since by her own admission she wouldn’t be strong enough to stay away from this man if he continued to contact her. We started making the arrangements to pull her out, but then her guardian, a member back in Texas that took my little sister in after our parents died, told us we shouldn’t take her out of Provo, that my little sister should stay because whether in Provo or somewhere else she needed to prove to herself she could do it. It was hard advice to follow, but her guardian was a good mom to 4 kids of her own and a seasoned member in the Church, so we decided to trust this advice considering my older sister and I had never been parents ourselves and had little to no idea what effective parenting was. I remember during the 2-3 days we were there in Provo, I fasted for the entire duration pleading with the Lord to please watch over and protect my little sister, and to help this man not abandon his family. I prayed on my knees with my sisters in my little sister’s apartment room. I’ve never prayed so hard in my life thanking the Lord that we were able to reach my little sister before the relationship between her and this man had developed any further. I remember praying fervently to God that He would watch over her and protect her, and that she would be given the strength needed to overcome this trial. We left our little sister there in Provo. And long story short, the relationship developed once more. Once my little sister was fully committed to this man, he officially left his wife and 6 kids there in Utah, finalized the divorce, and had a Vegas wedding. My little sister and this man now live on the East coast, and just last year or two I was able to reestablish connection with her after being so distraught by the whole episode.

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #4
-Going to church and all the other checklist items is meaningless if I’ve already self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom. And how can I teach my family about Mormonism if I personally don’t have hope in the system?

 

Most of your issues rest on problem number 2.  As long as these things dominate in your life it is just next to impossible to feel good about spiritual matters.  You are not alone in this issue.  When I was first made a Bishop, that was the most shocking thing was how many came through my door who were the "upstanding" stalwart types in the Ward that had problems in this arena. It was difficult if not crippling for their spirituality as well. 

Have you looked into the addiction programs that the church now offers? 

 

[zil]

#1 & 2 - you need help, addiction-recovery style help.  Get it.  Do not try to do this alone, won't work.  No one can overcome actual addiction by themselves (bad habits, maybe, but not addiction).

#3 - as you have learned, you cannot pray away another person's agency.  This doesn't mean that your prayer wasn't heard, only that God could not take away your sister's agency, nor the man's.  (I'm sorry your family had to go through this.)

#4 - see #1 and #2.

I truly believe it doesn't matter where you are, nor how far you've come, but whether you are persistent in turning back to God, repenting and forgiving.  If you can keep doing those two things, one day, you'll reach your goal.

[CV75]

38 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I’ve crippled myself

#1 is not a lie, but the power of the Lord’s atonement and grace overcomes this. If you are fearful yet willing to change, you will access this power no matter how slowly it may seem to you.

#2 is a lie because it ignores the principle and role of willingness in accessing the power of the Lord’s atonement and grace (see the wording of the sacrament prayer). See Elder Holland’s recent talk on perfection, which applies to self-mastery. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/be-ye-therefore-perfect-eventually?lang=eng

#3 is a lie. See 2 Nephi 32:8. Sometimes trials of faith last a long time: “Some blessings come soon, some come late, and some don’t come until heaven; but for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come.” https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1999/10/an-high-priest-of-good-things-to-come?lang=eng

#4 is a lie. Checklists are meaningless, period. Pegging yourself beyond hope ignores power of the Lord’s atonement and believes the lies of #2 and 3. Anyone can teach anyone about Mormonism, but it is better to teach them faith in Christ and His atonement and a willingness to follow Him, by example. Even a willingness to believe (Alma 32, Mark 9:24).

[anatess2]

Hi clbent04, just one thought while reading your OP - 

In my humble opinion, I think the thing you need to overcome your "rut" is to learn to be able to say with all sincerity and humility - "Thy will be done."

Don't worry about the Celestial Kingdom.  Only worry about giving your humble ALL to live a celestial life - even if you stumble and fall, just pick yourself back up and put another foot forward.  Don't worry about anything else.  Just like Christ admonished us not to judge the fate of others in eternity, we are not to judge ourselves as well.  Christ judges.  With Christ being one with the Father, Let God's will be done.

My mother's favorite quote is - "Do your best and God will do the rest".

So, about prayers - Jesus taught us the manner to pray... He, even as he is tasked with the atoning mission, prayed to the Father that God's will be done.  He asked that may "this cup be taken from me".  Of course, the Father did not take it away and Jesus went on to be tortured and eventually died.  In the manner of prayer, we need to be humble in our petition and surrender to the Father.  If it seems like our prayers have not been answered, it simply means there is something else afoot that we do not understand.  In your sister's case, it might be that it is your sister's test and therefore only her agency can take that cup away from her.  She chose something not aligned to what you perceive as righteous.  It is her cup to bear.

I'll give you an example from my life:  My father was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer a few years back with only a few months given to him.  I prayed with all my heart that my father be saved from this affliction.  I prayed so hard.  I had this absolute trust that God will hear my prayers and grant me my desire.  Like all of my prayers, I surrendered the matter to God and say in my prayers that may His will be done but I had this faith that my father will live.  We flew my father from the Philippines into this clinical trial for Avastin in Texas and it succeeded in managing his cancer.  I took it as proof that God heard my prayers.  But my father had other ideas - he went on a hunger strike demanding to go home to the Philippines.  He said we were keeping him prisoner away from his family and home to die.  We had to take him out of the trial and send him back to the Philippines where he died after a few months.

I was in despair.  I railed at God why He couldn't soften my dad's heart that he may live.  I railed at my dad why he doesn't think living in the US close to his other kids is not "enough family" for him.  Did God not love us?  Did my dad not love us?  It was a dark moment for me.  But in my heart I knew I only have to understand.  I realize now that what I needed was not for my father to live.  What I needed was time to learn to let go of my father.  What I needed was the blunt lesson on Charity and Service.  I did all these things for my dad expecting my dad to look to me in gratitude and love for all the difficult things I am doing for his sake.  Instead, my dad showered me with harsh words in his homesickness.  His cancer was controlled but his mental health was deteriorating.  I learned then that I was not performing Charity and Service.  Rather, I was performing a very selfish act of doing service for my own benefit - that I may be praised and seen as a hero.  I was pleading for God to save my dad's life in selfishness - I couldn't let go of my dad.  It was a harsh lesson.  But I learned it.  And I am forever grateful that I learned it.  God loves me.  He knows how to answer my prayers in a manner that would lead me to Him if I but understand how it falls in the plan of my salvation.

May you find what God has prepared for you.  May you find peace.  This is my hope for you.

Hope this helps.  It's only worth 2 cents.

[Grunt]

You're making excuses to continue your bad behavior, as I alluded to previously.  You KNOW what you need to do.  You've been TOLD what you need to do.  You have agency, you make choices.  Because you've made bad choices and won't (to quote Elder Ballard) "just get over it", you've instead chosen to listen to Satan and condemn yourself because wallowing in the mire with like-minded people is MUCH easier than Choosing the Right, which is MUCH harder.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, even though you don't want to hear it.

1.  Stop watching porn.  Get over it.

2.  Start going to church.  Just go.

3. Pray all the time.  Feel like watching porn?  Pray.  Don't want to go to church?  Pray.  Driving to work?  Pray.  

4. Talk to your Bishop or others in the church.  Stop making excuses that you aren't worthy, there is no hope, you can't get into Celestial.  Just do it.  Why?  Because God wants you to.  You don't have all the answers to the afterlife.  If you're running in a foot race and it looks like you'll only come in second, do you quit?  What if it looks like you'll come in last?  Quit then?  Nobody expects you to be perfect.  They expect you to try.  If not for you, then because the decisions you make today will affect your children for the rest of their lives.

5.  Be humble.  Have humility and grace.  Soften your heart. Develop a relationship with Christ.  Develop a home worthy of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to help you.  

6.  Focus on the issues that will help you get better.  Stop side-stepping the solutions you need and arguing yourself deeper into the pit of despair on topics that really shouldn't matter to you right now.

Believe it or not, we don't want you to fail.  We'd love you to succeed, and I'm willing to bet anyone here would help you.  You are your own worst enemy at this point, likely through no fault of your own.  You're listening to Satan.  Stop.  It's frustrating, to me at least, to see you argue and make excuses, choosing to focus on matters that won't help you at this point when the ANSWER is so blatantly obvious to us all.  

The path is not easy, but it is THE path.  We can't make you follow it.  Personally, I believe answering all these questions you have is a waste of time and actually hurts more than it helps.  It's why I won't participate.  It's why you obviously don't like me.  You're asking us for the solution to an advanced algebra problem and others are trying to answer it for you.  It's senseless because you can't even add and subtract right now.  

Read the Scripture.

Pray

Go to church

Call your Bishop.  Not tomorrow.  Not talk to him in church Sunday.  Call him, or anyone else in a position to help you, today.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Grunt

[prisonchaplain]

12 minutes ago, Grunt said:

1.  Stop watching porn.  Get over it.

I don't disagree. I don't. However, could we not replace "watching porn" with the more generic "sinning?" Here's the argument:  People are dying for Jesus, and have throughout history. Jesus, as a complete human, endured death on the cross when he could have stopped it all, at any point, and rained justice upon his tormentors. Barely-teenaged girls are enduring gang rape in the Sudan, because they will not renounce Christ. So...why can't I just stop looking, eating, thinking, doing ... ?

Romans 7 makes it clear that we cannot/will not quickly or suddenly get over it. The Apostle Paul says he does what he knows he must not, and fails to do what he knows he must. His answer is Jesus.

So...one day at a time, one decision at a time, always bathed in prayer (as you highlighted), and always in humble reliance on the Holy Spirit for this moment's strength. We will win, but we must not underestimate the road to our victory.

Edited January 4, 2018 by prisonchaplain

[Grunt]

Just now, prisonchaplain said:

I don't disagree. I don't. However, could we not replace "watching porn" with the more generic "sinning?" Here's the argument:  People are dying for Jesus, and have throughout history. Jesus, as a complete human, endured death on the cross when he could have stopped it all, at any point, and rained justice upon his tormentors. Barely-teenaged girls are enduring gang rape in the Sudan, because they will not renounce Christ. So...why can't I just stop looking, eating, thinking, doing ... ?

Romans 7 makes it clear that we cannot/will not quickly or suddenly get over it. He says he does what he knows he must not, and fails to do what he knows he must. His answer is Jesus.

So...one day at a time, one decision at a time, always bathed in prayer (as you highlighted), and always in humble reliance on the Holy Spirit for this moment's strength. We will win, but we must not underestimate the road to our victory.

We could replace "watching porn" with "sinning".  I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but as I understand this post it doesn't seem to be at odds with what you quoted.

[clbent04]

54 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If you're that low, you need to start low.  You can't expect to achieve Celestial level perfection in one step. 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not claiming to be perfect or necessarily placing myself above you.  But you asked for help and I'm going to try giving it the best I can because I've been in your shoes.

First, you need to humble yourself.  Being depressed or recognizing you're lacking is not the same as humbling yourself before the Lord.  Humbling yourself before the Lord means that you have to start with "I don't know."  You have stated multiple times that you don't understand this or that.  But you actually say it with the assumption that you already know a lot of things.  Blunt truth (please take this the right way) you don't know very much at all.  Or more correctly, you've learned an awful lot that is incorrect.  Acknowledge this first.  Then move on to actually learning the truth.

As you learn, do your best to find sources of knowledge that you know you can trust.  Seek out confirmation from the Spirit in ALL THINGS.  Where the Spirit doesn't seem to be communicating, just do the best you can.  Seek counsel of mortals you believe you can trust.  No matter how flawed this method may be, the most important thing is that you are always just doing the best you can.

If you can get there, then you're ready for more.  But start with this.

Thanks Carb

[MrShorty]

If I may suggest answers:

#1: Blunt truth. Rom 3:23 and other scriptures teach us that we all sin and that none of us "deserves" celestial glory. We may need to be careful not to descend into the Calvinist idea of "total depravity", and I would quibble with your "am not and never will be". This is where we must learn to rely on the Savior in order to obtain celestial glory. We can and will some day be saved through the Savior's atonement.

#2. If #1 is a blunt truth, then I think #2 is a lie or a misunderstanding. I don't think (or at least I am really hoping and believing) that God can still save me even if I don't have a full grasp of the law of chastity. I believe, as Elder Bednar once said, "The power of procreation is spiritually significant." (Apr. 2013 GC). I believe that the purpose of the atonement is to help us overcome our imperfections -- even when we fail to perfectly overcome them in this life. Others have suggested sex addiction therapy, I am skeptical of the sex as addiction model, so I don't know if I would make the exact same recommendation. I think there is value in working (with or without ecclasiastical or professional help as personal situations warrant) on developing a good, accurate, healthy relationship with our sexuality, without demanding some kind of "perfection" of ourselves.

#3 is also a lie or misunderstanding. I believe that prayer is effective, but I don't believe that God always intervenes in His creation the way we want. I don't fully understand it (if anyone really can), but this is one of those things where faith is important. Developing the faith that God is still there and that prayer is still effective even when God chooses not intervene the way I think He should is challenging. This is also something I don't expect perfection in myself, and rely on the Savior to "help my unbelief".

I could agree that I don't think I have ever felt any help from God to overcome "lust" (especially by my old, Augustinian-like definitions of lust). The last few years, I have found myself re-evaluating what lust is. Is it possible that the perceived failure here is because of a misunderstanding of what lust truly is? I think I am getting a better understanding now, and I think I better understand why I didn't see God helping me overcome my lust. I had the wrong understanding and expectations.

#4 Misunderstanding or blunt truth -- I'm not sure. Someone who has truly reached the point of " self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom" has also rejected (on some level) Christ's infinite and eternal atonement and His ability to draw us into the CK. Moroni talks about faith, hope, and charity and includes in that discussion the importance of developing and retaining hope that we can be saved through Christ's atonement. I don't think the "checklist things" give us that hope, but that hope comes from an understanding and a testimony of the atonement. I hope that, when we feel that we have lost hope for ourselves, that we learn to turn towards the Savior to find and regain that hope.

 

[Traveler]

@clbent04

Shakespeare once said something along the line – “Nothing is as good or as bad as it seems only that thinking makes it so.”  I believe the first step to achieve (or fail) is to think it will be so.

I will add another thought - no one can change anything or anybody but themselves.

 

The Traveler

Edited January 4, 2018 by Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

We could replace "watching porn" with "sinning".  I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but as I understand this post it doesn't seem to be at odds with what you quoted.

It's not. I was highlighting the reality that just stopping is easy to understand, but difficult to execute. Your post mentioned prayer, which is so important. Another aspect is to realize that accepting the need to stop doesn't instantly eliminate, or even hinder, the temptation. Overcoming temptation--especially one we have habitually given in to previously--is often a daily slog, with victory only coming after many, many battles.

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, prisonchaplain said:

It's not. I was highlighting the reality that just stopping is easy to understand, but difficult to execute. Your post mentioned prayer, which is so important. Another aspect is to realize that accepting the need to stop doesn't instantly eliminate, or even hinder, the temptation. Overcoming temptation--especially one we have habitually given in to previously--is often a daily slog, with victory only coming after many, many battles.

Ahhhh, sorry.  Stopping is simple, not easy.  I was quoting Elder Ballard. 

[Guest]

@clbent04,

WORK.

It has been called "The Crowning Principle of the Gospel."  After common words (if, and, but...) and names of Deity, there is one word that is used more than any other in all of scripture.

WORK.

There is a reason for this.  We've been placed on this earth to work.  We've been placed on this world to LEARN to work.  The Lord thought this so important that He declared it one of the first commandments as Adam and Eve left the Garden.  By the sweat or thy brow...  If we need to work to simply survive, we will HAVE to learn how to work.

Why Work?

Who do you believe has the greatest burden on His shoulders?  Our Father does more work than anyone else.  He wants us to learn to be like Him.  If we don't learn how to work and work REALLY hard, then there's no chance that we can be like Him.

Men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause.  It is a difficult thing for many people to do so all the time because they have to work to survive.  But if we consider even our working lives as a service to others, then everything is charity.  Going to work can be a spiritual experience.  We are "blessed" with work.  And we have gratitude for having work to do.

It is an interesting phenomenon that a high percentage of men will die shortly after retirement.  This doesn't change if they retire at 55 or 85.  The real reason is not health.  It is because without that work many men find they have no purpose in life.  Simply lazing around all the time isn't what man was made to do.  So, even after retirement, we need to find some work to do in order to have purpose.  Many Mormons tend to live longer because our Church activities give us that purpose even after retiring from our careers.

As you pursue your path to change, you will need to work.  To implement that attitude change, you'll need to get rid of a word from your vocabulary.

BUT

Get rid of your big old "BUT."    Whenever people want to change, we tend to make the excuse: I want to... BUT ...

We need to change that attitude if we're ever actually going to change.  I want to learn to play the piano.  But I just don't have the time.

To successfully change this needs to be altered in your mind to.  I want to learn to play the piano.  So I'll have to make the time.

I want to come closer to the Lord.  But I just don't feel the Spirit.

I want to come close to the Lord.  So I'll have to learn to feel the Spirit.

I want to have a nice workshop to build things for people.  But it's such hard work to build such a workshop.

I want to have a nice workshop to build things for people.  And it's going to be worth the hard work to build it.

[Vort]

3 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #1
-I’m not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom. I just don’t have enough resolve, determination, faith... I’m not nor ever will be of Celestial caliber. I’m not spiritual enough. 

Blunt truth, except for the bolded part. That's a lie. (Not originating from you, but perhaps one you have embraced.)

3 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #2
-No one can make it to the Celestial Kingdom who has not mastered being a righteous steward with the powers of procreation in this life. If you leave this world in a state where you still abuse the powers of procreation (willingly lusting in your heart, pornography...), then you are automatically cut off from the Celestial Kingdom as the Law of Chasity is a very strict and serious law. There is less lenience and mercy that the Lord can afford with this law in comparison to others

Misunderstanding. I doubt any mortal man or woman "masters" being a righteous steward over sex and everything associated with it (which is to say, everything).

3 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #3
-Praying to God is ineffective and a waste of my time. Every time I think of praying to God now I’m reminded of how my most sincere prayers have been left unanswered. 

A sad misunderstanding, but one that many of us sympathize with. Just as a child learns how to understand (and how to talk), we must learn how to communicate with God. It is our spiritual heritage, so in a strictly spiritual sense, prayer is "natural". But it certainly is not a part of the natural man. The natural man (and Satan, to whom the natural man listens) encourages us not to pray. Remember 2 Nephi 32:8-9:

Quote

For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray. But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.

Do not let your sins stop your prayers, and do not let your apparent lack of success stop them. Keep praying until your confidence increases. Your sister's sad story is an example of people being agents (and perhaps of a well-meaning guardian making a huge blunder). If you could pray with the faith of Moses, or the brother of Jared, or Jesus Christ himself, you could not have altered your sister's actions. She gets to choose.

3 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #4
-Going to church and all the other checklist items is meaningless if I’ve already self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom. And how can I teach my family about Mormonism if I personally don’t have hope in the system?

Misunderstanding. You have only the vaguest concept of your life here, of your life/lives premortally, and of your life/lives to come. We are to have faith and hope. Do not abandon hope. God promises us happiness beyond our ability to understand if we will only endure to the end. To what end? To the end of eternal life.

[zil]

4 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #4
-Going to church and all the other checklist items is meaningless if I’ve already self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom. And how can I teach my family about Mormonism if I personally don’t have hope in the system?

Huh.  After reading @Vort's reply, I have re-thunk this.  I suppose if you willfully try not to get anything good from going to church, serving others, reading scripture, etc., then maybe it is meaningless (though I'm not entirely certain).  But regardless of whether you're feeling like you'll never be Celestial, doing these things (especially willingly, even if without much hope) would put you into places where:

a) You are doing what God has commanded you to do - for which, He will bless you

b) You are at least passively receiving uplifting words - which ought to improve your thinking

c) You are around others who are trying their best too, and you can help each other (make no mistakes, they're not perfect either, so don't fall for that lie)

d) You're not off doing something worse - thus saving you some repenting later

e) You're making good habits of behavior - training your body and brain to first stop fighting the new routine, then to adjust to the new routine, and finally to like the new routine

f) All the other things I haven't thought of.

No, this is a lie for sure, one Satan desperately wants you to believe so that you'll stop trying, so that you won't do good things so that you'll rebel against ideas and invitations to do these things (having already fallen for the lie that they're pointless).

Nope, I think you should rebel against Satan, with a vengeance - poke him in the eye and tell him to get lost.  Break open the scriptures for as long as you can stand it, every day; go to church on Sundays; decorate your home with pictures of Christ, temples, scripture stories, family photos, etc.; pray frequently - and with every prayer, ask God to change you - that will take years, a lifetime really, but don't stop asking, just keep making that same request every time.  Do stuff like that.  Every now and then, stick your tongue out at Satan and tell him he's a wimp and ought to get lost.

[omegaseamaster75]

4 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #1
-I’m not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom. I just don’t have enough resolve, determination, faith... I’m not nor ever will be of Celestial caliber. I’m not spiritual enough. 

 

It's a lie, we can all be good enough there is this little thing called the atonement (I'm banking on it helping a lot).

4 hours ago, clbent04 said:

 

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #2
-No one can make it to the Celestial Kingdom who has not mastered being a righteous steward with the powers of procreation in this life. If you leave this world in a state where you still abuse the powers of procreation (willingly lusting in your heart, pornography...), then you are automatically cut off from the Celestial Kingdom as the Law of Chasity is a very strict and serious law. There is less lenience and mercy that the Lord can afford with this law in comparison to others

Lie, are you trying? the struggle is real bro. but as long as you don't throw your hands in the air and quit your good to go. See above think "atonement".

4 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #3
-Praying to God is ineffective and a waste of my time. Every time I think of praying to God now I’m reminded of how my most sincere prayers have been left unanswered. 

 

You gave 2 examples both good ones.

1. You can't pray lustful feelings away that's ridiculous. Also there is a difference between seeing a pretty girl and admiring God's creation and "lusting" after her. 

2. Let's take the example you gave about your sister.  You prayed really hard, what your not taking into account is that your sister made a choice you don't know that God didn't try to stop her, that he didn't place red flags in her way. SHE MADE HER OWN CHOICE.  God is not going to interfere with our free will.

4 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #4
-Going to church and all the other checklist items is meaningless if I’ve already self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom. And how can I teach my family about Mormonism if I personally don’t have hope in the system?

You will be surprised at who makes it to the Celestial kingdom and who does not. At the end of the day are you on a better path following the teachings of the gospel working towards being a better person or just giving up?

Forget all the check the box crap. Focus on these things- Faith, Repentance, Baptism for the remission of sins, and trying real hard until you die to be the best person you can be.  Everything else will fall into place.

[Midwest LDS]

Sorry you are having a rough time @clbent04 I know what it's like to feel like you'll never be ok, and it's tough. I had two thoughts while I was reading your post. First, stop seeing life as a sprint when it's a marathon. One of my favorite scriptures is 2 Nephi 31:15 and it explains something I think you need to take to heart.

"And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved."

 That's God, our Eternal Father, letting us know that if we endure to the end we will be saved. But what does enduring to the end mean? It means we didn't quit! It means every single time we fell flat on our face, even if it was for the ten thousandth time, we pushed ourselves back up. Second, I understand your despair. I've been where you are at right now and with the very same problem. Christ set me free. Not because I am better then you, far from it trust me, but because no matter how many times I fell down, and couldn't take the Sacrament, and couldn't serve in callings, I didn't stop trying. I kept talking to me wife, kept talking to my bishop, kept going to addiction recovery meetings, and church, and paying my tithing. I decided that even if I couldn't stop my addiction, I was going to make danged sure I was trying everywhere else, so if I died in the meantime, I could say I didn't leave any stone left unturned. Now I'm free because Christ saved me. God does not always answer our prayers in our time frame, but he does answer them. The question is do you want it? Are you willing to keep trying even though success doesn't come quickly? Are you willing to keep going to church even if you face disfellowshipment or excommunicaton? Brother, Christ WILL save you, but only if you keep trying. Every time you quit, you are opening yourself up to Satan, and he is clouding your thoughts with doubt and despair. So buck up, dust yourself off, tell Satan to go back to hell where he belongs, and go to church. God bless you brother, I pray for your success.

[the Ogre]

8 hours ago, clbent04 said:

• I’ve crippled myself to the point that getting out of the spiritual rut I’m in seems hopeless. welcome to the club
• Overcoming the battle of lust has been the crux of my issue after trying so many times only to fail once more, but it’s compounded from there. blunt truth, recognition is a big part of recovery.
• If I could overcome the battle of lust once and for all, I believe that would give me hope in other areas I’m struggling in. lie. believing you can't multitask gospel and obedience issues is crap.
• I would be able to see for the first time in my life that the gospel works for me personally. Lie and I don't think you've been paying attention. You have a family, a wife and child? That is part of the gospel in action.

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #1

• -I’m not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom. Very few are in this life. The eternity is a long time. Don't get worked up and jest keep moving in the same direction in faith. It'll work out given time.
• I just don’t have enough resolve, determination, faith... recognition is a big part of recovery, but it is only the first part. Keep on keeping on. 
• I’m not nor ever will be of Celestial caliber.  A giant lie unless you choose to make it a truth.
• I’m not spiritual enough. something to work on then

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #2

• -No one can make it to the Celestial Kingdom who has not mastered being a righteous steward obviously
• -No one can make it to the Celestial Kingdom who has not mastered being a righteous steward a righteous steward with the powers of procreation in this life. same as above except the "in this life": eternity is a long time up until the judgement. You have until then.
• If you leave this world in a state where you still abuse the powers of procreation (willingly lusting in your heart, pornography...), then you are automatically cut off from the Celestial Kingdom as the Law of Chasity is a very strict and serious law. an obvious lie check out the parable of the talent.
• There is less lenience and mercy that the Lord can afford with this law in comparison to others don't put the L-rd in a box. The atonement is pretty cool

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #3

• -Praying to God is ineffective and a waste of my time. I can not speak to your experience, but I have found the opposite to be true 
• Every time I think of praying to God now I’m reminded of how my most sincere prayers have been left unanswered. I bet number two was, but your sister decided to go another way. Don't blame yourself or prayer or the L-rd for this. Your sister and her new husband have all the responsibility and I'd say the biggest wrong in this situation was done against the mom and her six children.
• Example 1: I prayed to overcome the battle of lust for years. Yet I’ve never been able to overcome it. I think you are in addiction recovery whether you are in a formal program or not (get into a professional program that recognizes pornography addiction is exactly that: an addiction that eats at the soul and destroys families). When you are trying to recover from addiction, you have to recognize first that 1) you have a problem and 2) you will have this problem for a long time, maybe forever, so keep praying.
• Example 2: After my parents passed away, my little sister was accepted to BYU . . . Lie. Your sister made this choice. You can't pray away another person's agency.

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #4

• -Going to church and all the other checklist items is meaningless if I’ve already self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom. Misunderstanding. Don't believe all the hype around the concept of self fulfilling prophecy. It's bunk, unless you've committed the sin of denial of the Holy Ghost's witness, the atonement still applies to you.
• And how can I teach my family about Mormonism if I personally don’t have hope in the system? Step by step. Precept by precept. One pant leg at a time. Just like everyone else.

You're getting really worked up. I get it. I got problems, too. Even the great and mighty @pam has problems. We all do. No one is perfect on this board. Be patient and let the atonement work in your life and DO NOT FREAK OUT WHEN THERE IS A SETBACK OR TWO.

[Grunt]

11 minutes ago, the Ogre said:

You're getting really worked up. I get it. I got problems, too. Even the great and mighty @pam has problems. We all do. No one is perfect on this board. Be patient and let the atonement work in your life and DO NOT FREAK OUT WHEN THERE IS A SETBACK OR TWO.

I refuse to live in a world where someone like @pam can have problems.

[SilentOne]

9 hours ago, CV75 said:

#2 is a lie because it ignores the principle and role of willingness in accessing the power of the Lord’s atonement and grace (see the wording of the sacrament prayer). See Elder Holland’s recent talk on perfection, which applies to self-mastery. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/be-ye-therefore-perfect-eventually?lang=eng

 

I also recommend elder Cornish's talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/am-i-good-enough-will-i-make-it?lang=eng

Or just this part.

Quote

If we must compare, let us compare how we were in the past to how we are today—and even to how we want to be in the future. The only opinion of us that matters is what our Heavenly Father thinks of us. Please sincerely ask Him what He thinks of you. He will love and correct but never discourage us; that is Satan’s trick.

Let me be direct and clear. The answers to the questions “Am I good enough?” and “Will I make it?” are “Yes! You are going to be good enough” and “Yes, you are going to make it as long as you keep repenting and do not rationalize or rebel.” The God of heaven is not a heartless referee looking for any excuse to throw us out of the game. He is our perfectly loving Father, who yearns more than anything else to have all of His children come back home and live with Him as families forever. He truly gave His Only Begotten Son that we might not perish but have everlasting life! Please believe, and please take hope and comfort from, this eternal truth. Our Heavenly Father intends for us to make it! That is His work and His glory.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by SilentOne

[zil]

23 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

I also recommend elder Cornish's talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/am-i-good-enough-will-i-make-it?lang=eng

Or just this part.

Huh.  I was gonna say exactly that - word for word.  It's almost as if we're twins or something.

[JohnsonJones]

12 hours ago, clbent04 said:

I’ve crippled myself to the point that getting out of the spiritual rut I’m in seems hopeless. Whether it be one of Satan’s lies I’ve come to believe based on my own life experience, a simple misunderstanding of the gospel and how the Lord will judge us, or even a blunt truth about life, the following lists why I feel unable or unwilling to get back on track. I don’t want to stay like this. I want to get back on track for myself, my wife and daughter to grow and progress in the Church, but it’s as if I’ve boxed myself in. The simple solutions to my problems like prayer don’t seem like solutions at all to me. Nothing seems to work for me.  

Overcoming the battle of lust has been the crux of my issue after trying so many times only to fail once more, but it’s compounded from there. If I could overcome the battle of lust once and for all, I believe that would give me hope in other areas I’m struggling in. I would be able to see for the first time in my life that the gospel works for me personally.

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #1
-I’m not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom. I just don’t have enough resolve, determination, faith... I’m not nor ever will be of Celestial caliber. I’m not spiritual enough. 

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #2
-No one can make it to the Celestial Kingdom who has not mastered being a righteous steward with the powers of procreation in this life. If you leave this world in a state where you still abuse the powers of procreation (willingly lusting in your heart, pornography...), then you are automatically cut off from the Celestial Kingdom as the Law of Chasity is a very strict and serious law. There is less lenience and mercy that the Lord can afford with this law in comparison to others

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #3
-Praying to God is ineffective and a waste of my time. Every time I think of praying to God now I’m reminded of how my most sincere prayers have been left unanswered. 

Lie, Misunderstanding or Blunt Truth #4
-Going to church and all the other checklist items is meaningless if I’ve already self-pegged myself as ending up somewhere other than the Celestial Kingdom. And how can I teach my family about Mormonism if I personally don’t have hope in the system?

 

#1

Thomas S. Monson was a very great man in the LDS church.  He tried his best to show charity to widows and others that were less fortunate.  He tried to set an example on the podium of how to be righteous and how to follow the Lord. 

Would you believe that he was not perfect.  This is not to put him down or slander him, but to utilize him, who was better than many of us, that even the best of us still mess up.  I am not going into some of the things that he may have had difficulties with on a personal level in his last few months before his passing, but I will say if anyone will go the Celestial Kingdom, I would think it would be him. 

He was not perfect, none of us are.  NONE of us are good enough for the Celestial Kingdom.  That is why we ALL need the Atonement in our lives, and to accept it.  We need to utilize the great sacrifice the Lord made for us, having faith that it is true and that we can repent of our sins.  We need to do this daily, repenting and praying constantly.  Thomas S. Monson was the prophet of the Lord, his mouthpiece on this earth for the past few years, and one of the most righteous people I know of or about.  From what I know, he repented daily and sometimes did NOT feel worthy or up to the tasks he had.  He, like you, knew he was not strong enough on his own but had faith in the Atonement and the Lord that he could and would be forgiven.  I am no where in the league of Thomas S. Monson, being a much worse sinner myself.  However, I have faith in the Lord and know that I can have the faith to repent of my sins.  His atonement is great enough to cover for all of us if we are willing to accept the first principles which are faith and repentance, and accept that the first ordinances of Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost will be honored fully by the Lord who established them for us.

#2

According to scientist 90%-95% of all men lust whether in their hearts, in their minds, or in sin (unfortunately).  We can quench this desire rapidly and look away when tempted.  Decide to kill the thoughts and view others as daughters of our Lord rather than anything else, but sometime, somewhere, almost all men have been caught up in this thing called lust.  In the church today, MY PERSONAL OPINION is that we are stressing certain sins out of proportion to how we are instructed to treat them.  One of these is Pornography, which I assume from your topic that you are struggling with.  The problem is that it IS a significant problem, and a huge plague on the church currently.  It is almost impossible to explain the gravity of the sin and the seriousness of it without doing what the church has been doing.  At the same time, unfortunately, people tend to equate it with far more serious sins...sins which we are explicitly told will get us excommunicated...as explained in this article...

The Three most abominable sins

There is a distinct difference between the sins of pornography (and masturbation) and that of most other sexual sins in regards to their seriousness.  This is that most of the sexual sins involve one not just hurting their own chastity, but also being involved in hurting another individuals chastity and involving them in a serious abuse of the powers given to us and going down the path of deadly and grievous sin.  Whereas many of the sexual sins involve another, typically pornography and masturbation does not also include a personal involvement in the destruction of someone else's soul in addition to ours.  I have yet (and perhaps there will be a first time, but I have not yet) to see ANYONE excommunicated because of Pornography or masturbation.  Other sexual sins...yes...but those two...not yet.  Normally it is a far lesser degree in what is considered.  The BIG thing to realize is that these two sins or Pornography and/or Masturbation are covered under the atonement.  Repent and pray often...the Lord is probably FAR more willing to forgive you anytime you ask then you realize.  He probably forgives you far more easily than you forgive yourself (or even then others, even the most forgiving of us...forgive you).

However, it could be worse than what I think you infer from your topic.  I am going to relate something that I got via a phonecall to me just recently. 

Just in the past two days I had a test that I'm still going through.  I have been quite ill, but that does not stop my responsibilities.  A situation arose that deals with a member of the church.  As it deals with a very serious violation of marital vows and the law of chastity, I pondered what exactly I should do.  I have known this individual for almost my entire life, and as such, could not believe what I had heard.  This individual was a Bishop previously, and then in the High Council.  I had seen this individual as a role model in my life.  I still have not taken any action until I learn more, but in preparation I have been reading up on the subject to better prepare myself.  It is especially hard to know what to say or advise or even suggest when one is especially close to the individual involved with the sin.  It is like someone punched you in the gut when it is someone that you have always respected and looked up to.  In all likelihood, it will be handled at the stake level in a church court.  In order to try to keep a level and unbiased head in regards to the individual and make wise decisions, should the accusations turn out to be true (and I haven't yet vetted that they are or are not true yet)I have done a lot of research and praying today.  It is a hard thing on both the sinner and those who know and love the sinner.  I have dealt with these things before with others, but never in regards to someone who Iooked up to this much, respected this much, or was this close to.  It makes it much harder.The above article I posted was one of those I read.

However, I read a lot more than that, and even as I am saddened, I also found hope in regards to the individual if the accusations turn out to be true.

If your sin is greater than that of pornography or masturbation, I have also read more on that and have good news.  I read the following article on this subject, and if you are willing to continue to have faith and look to the Lord...the atonement has a place in your life.

A chance to start over

the key is to NEVER LOSE FAITH.  Even when you want to give up...DO NOT LOSE FAITH. I have struggled the past day over the item above, and though I am familiar with the proceedings and what should be done, continued to read and try to find faith myself in the correct things and decisions that should be done in this instance.  It is not always easy...and sometimes VERY hard...not just for the person involved with the sin, but for friends and family, and...believe it or not...Bishops and Counselors, High Councils and Stake Presidents and other leaders.  If they are close and love you, believe it or not, it is actually a very hard thing to go through for them as well, but that is because they love you and want you to repent and arrive at the celestial kingdom with them...BECAUSE YOU STILL BE SAVED with us in the Kingdom of God.  Your friends and family and those closest to you in the church love you and believe in you.  If this experience has taught me anything thus far, it is that the friends and family KNOW that the sinner can repent and be saved and even want that to happen with all their heart.  It is only the sinner at times that is the one who lacks the faith of that possibility, but if they would just ask and rely on our faith, we would do all we could to help them, in fact, just about anything in our power to help them to utilize faith and repentance and be saved.

#3

We all have free agency.  You can pray for someone to have their heart touched, you can pray for strength, and you an have mighty prayers.  What you cannot do is force someone to do something.  A few more stories on this.

David O. Mckay was a prophet from some time ago.  I never knew him, but I have heard this story related to me.  David O. Mckay was also a very righteous man.  He was a loving father, and wanted the best for his children, especially that they would follow the teachings of the church and be saved.  He had a daughter who he taught the principles of the gospel and did all in his power to bring up right.  From what I remember, his daughter apostasized.  He said MANY GREAT PRAYERS ON HER BEHALF.  This was an apostle and later a prophet of God.  He said many mighty prayers.  Do you think his prayers were sincere?  I think they were.  Do you think this was a desire of his heart?  I think this was perhaps one of the greatest desires of his heart.  How do you think his prayers were answered? 

His daughter did NOT return to the church.  She engaged in terrible and abominable sins. 

After many years of fasting, struggle, and sadness he did get an answer, but it was not that she returned to the church or righteousness, which is what he so desired.  It was that she was his daughter because if she were to get to the Celestial Kingdom, he and his family were her best chances of getting there.  That's it.  No great change of heart from her, no sudden differences.  The great and huge desire of his heart did not occur. 

She had her free agency, she had her freedom to do as she chose in this life.

Another story of a blessing that seemed to be unanswered, if I can recall it right.  I think it an apostle in the early days of the church (Orson Pratt?  Orson Hyde?) who was told his wife was very sick.  He went to her and gave her a blessing.  His desire of course was that she be healed.  What do you think happened?  Shortly thereafter she passed away and died.  Do you think this was what he wanted, or what he desired?  Do you think he apostatized about this?

Part of what we need to accept is the Lord's will in all things.  He has a plan.  Many times we do not understand why or how it is supposed to work.  Perhaps they have fulfilled their mission in this life, or have a calling in the spirit world.  We do not know, we only know that the Lord's plan has the big picture compared to the small picture we have.

A more personal story.  I have a nephew that did not seem to want to go on a mission.  I prayed very strongly about this nephew and did all I could to persuade them to go on a mission.  I offered to pay the entirety of it flat out if they would go.  They did not go for years.  I truly wanted and felt they should go.  They are now in their 30s and they never went on a mission.  Is this an unanswered prayer...or more likely it was because what I wanted was not what was what they wanted with their own free agency, or perhaps it was that the Lord saw things differently.

Not all our prayers are answered as we want them to be.  There are many reasons for this.  Sometimes it is for others benefits and their spiritual growth.  Sometimes it is for our own growth.  At times it is for things we cannot see but is in the Lords purposes.  At times it is because others have their free agency, it is a part of this life, and something that is necessary for our very purpose being on this earth.

#4

Don't peg yourself yet.  This is going to sound arrogant...and it may be...but YOU DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT.  If you truly want to have a judgment, present your case to the Bishop.  If it is dire enough he could refer you to a church court.  If it is bad enough, you will be excommunicated, and if it is truly bad that you cannot make it to the celestial Kingdom, you will probably be notified upon excommunication that you will not be allowed to be rebaptized in most likely situations.

I have only known this to happen when an individual with full knowledge of the Lord has murdered innocent blood in fighting against the church.  That is the ONLY experience I have had where such at thing has happened.  Even then, that individual can still ask the first presidency and they can decide.  Murder is also one where it may prevent rebaptism if it is done by one who is a member (and normally has been to the temple) but that is extremely circumstantial.

All other sins can be forgiven by going through the process (and excommunication is part of the process).  These are reserved for the most grievous of sins (refer to my article above). 

So you struggle with sin.  It may be something like Pornography or Masturbation.  So what?  that in no wise disqualifies you from the Celestial Kingdom.  It's like the drunk thinking they can never go to the Celestial Kingdom because they cannot stop drinking.  Would you ever tell someone that they are barred from the Celestial Kingdom because they drink alcohol and cannot stop, or smoke and cannot stop, or are addicted to cocaine?

How about someone who works on Sunday (and that is directly against one of the basic ten commandments) as a matter of CHOICE (rather than being required to)?

Would you tell someone who took the Lord's name in vain that they would never go to the Celestial Kingdom (another one of those ten commandments)?  What if they have tried to stop it, but it is such an ingrained habit that they feel they cannot stop?  Would you condemn them.   That's number 3 in the commandments to avoid on the list of 10.  In ancient Israel it would be a far greater sin than masturbation.  Would you condemn them?

I would not.  It is NOT OUR PLACE. 

Then why do you condemn yourself?

Do not do this.  Instead, have faith in the Lord, and in doing so present an example to your children.  The first principles and ordinances of the church are not...be perfect...be perfect...be perfect...but faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the holy ghost by the laying on of hands.  These are for imperfect people that sin constantly.  You may not have hope, but I tell you, you can have hope.  Do not judge yourself for minor things...and if they are major...do not judge yourself but let those who are duly assigned judge you that your mind and heart may be lightened and you can know where you truly stand before the lord and how much hope you really should have.

Edited January 5, 2018 by JohnsonJones
grammar, 2nd edit correcting a mistake Vort pointed out...O'Mckay to O. Mckay

[SilentOne]

12 minutes ago, zil said:

Huh.  I was gonna say exactly that - word for word.  It's almost as if we're twins or something.

We're both women. Same thing.