Jimmy Tucker

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On 1/19/2018 at 7:25 PM, Jimmy Tucker said:

I get what you're saying.. I wasn't  going so far as to say "forget God  I'm more important than him" if that's what you took  from that then don't. 

I guess by point is im wondering how much of it is truly desiring to serve as a missionary and how much is subtle pressure from family.. Other church members.. Peers... And/or not wanting to disappoint the aforementioned groups. Living your life for God is one thing.. Living your life for other people is quite another. 

Are there kids who decide not to take the missionary road? I'm just curious and well as the church would say I'm investigating.. Haha. 

And if there are what happens.. Are they looked down upon or murmured about? 

This is a very good and very important question.  Thanks for asking this Jimmy!

I can't answer for anybody else but my family.  So, in my Filipino family - we are what we like to a call a Clan.  We have a family identity.  Our last name means something and it is defined by legacy left by our ancestors.  We can trace our family back to Lapulapu - the guy who killed Magellan.  Anyway, I grew up in a system where we do things because that is who we are as a family - for example, in our family, we strive to excel in academia.  I come home from school with 99/100 and my dad would ask me, why is this not 100?  That's just who we are.  So my brother was valedictorian in his class, I was valedictorian in my class, mostly because that's the standard our family set and not necessarily because it's a standard I set upon myself.  My other brother, on the other hand, has a consistent barely-passing grade.  And that's because he only does bare minimum in school because he spends all his time playing soccer.  So one day in his senior year, he came home with a failed grade.  My dad took all his soccer gear, put it in a drum, poured gas in it and lit it.  My brother and my dad did not speak after that.  My brother was only 16.  My brother eventually made it into the National team and had a very successful pro career that got him into the Hall of Fame (work ethic is also a family identity) until he broke his shoulder.  Good thing he had some of the family identity rub off on him and he spent the heyday of his soccer career completing a college degree at night with high marks.  So he was able to fall back on that degree to get a lucrative job after his career drastically ended.

So, in a way, family identity always has an impact on our lives.  And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Now, as far as the way I raise my kids - my family identity is Catholic.  My family did not speak to me when I decided to elope with my Mormon husband.  They eventually brought me back to the fold after I had my first kid.  So my kids are growing up in a multi-cultural, multi-faith family.  So, the way my husband and I raised our kids - we taught them to be Leaders and not just Followers.  They have a family identity - something my husband and I cultivated before we had the kids combining the good stuff in his family history and the good stuff from my family history.  So, yes, the family identity is LDS.  And LDS go on missions.  The family identity is excellence in Academics.  The family identity is impeccable work ethic.  The family identity is God-loving.  Their Filipino cousins share a lot of the same identity so even as they don't share the LDS background, they still have that sense of belonging.  That's a strong family influence and there's nothing wrong with that.  But as far as family pressure in the way that my brother was pressured by my dad to get his academic life in order - I don't disagree with my dad.  I simply disagreed with how he dealt with it.  In my family, we build the foundations of character in our kids and build a strong sense of identity that they are confident in.  They're not just left to "be who you are" without giving them guidance as to who they can become with the God-given talents they possess.  And on top of that, we give them the tools to be the masters of their own destiny.  So my kids know they can only rely on mom and dad's guidance for so long then they have to decide for themselves what their destiny is going to be.  And they should be strong enough to stand on the helm confident even amid the murmurs of their family and peers - because there will be murmurs, it's unavoidable, regardless of what they choose.  My kids know they can't control what other people do, they can only control how they react to them.

Hope this makes sense.

But hey, my oldest is only 16... who knows if my husband and I did the right thing in raising the kids.  I'll let you know in 50 years, I guess.  :D

 

Edited by anatess2

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16 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I'd ask Why.  What I would say would depend on his answer to Why.  For example:

"I don't want to because I'd rather go join the military".  "Ok, look here son.  I'm not comfortable with you going to war, missions are a lot less dangerous in my opinion.  But if that's what you feel is the best path to serving God, let's make a deal - do what needs to be done to become an officer or the guy driving drones or the guy doing stuff at the Pentagon". 

"I don't want to because I think this Church is full of crap".  "Somewhere along the road, I failed in my teaching.  Give me until you're 18 to teach you better and if you still feel the same way then go on and search for what God has planned for you elsewhere.".

"I don't want to because I'd rather live in the basement, go on 4chan, and eat chicken tendies."  "No soup for you."

In any case, I never told them they have to go on a mission.  As a matter of fact, their dad did not go on a mission.  They simply want to and I'm not discouraging it.

Ahaha. Keeping the soup Nazi alive.. Fair enough.. It's been nice talking with you.. Everytime I think we're done you raise another topic.. I'm very surprised to hear you or the church doctrine are ok with Mormons joining the armed forces? How can someone possibly be a follower of Christ and involved in the horrors of war? Didn't Jesus day those who take the sword will perish by it? 

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On 1/21/2018 at 6:36 AM, Jane_Doe said:

The age and duration of missions is set by current policy, not scriptural doctrine.  So it does change through time, most recently about 6 years ago.  Currently the policy is:

Young men (age 18-25) serve 2 years.  Before 6 years ago it was age 19-25.

Young women (age 19-flexiable) serve 18 months.  Before it was 21-flexiable. 

Older single sisters (>25) is flexible.

Also have flexibility for older (empty nester) couples.  

Totally "amen" to loosing perspective so easily.   As to my sisters, being close and being their for each other leaves a mark and a depth that ever goes away.  As to how often we talk since then, it's waxed and waned depending on the sister and what's going on.  Like one of them we talked a lot for a little bit after we got home, then she got super distracted with dating/engaged/wedding + graduating/getting her dream job.  Now as married a woman working the dream job, we talk less frequently (~10 wks) but they are super high quality and we're very close (note: her nursing job dictates the "when we can talk" schedule).  

I find that sad that her job and for most of us our jobs dictate... Well we allow our jobs I should say to dictate our lives. 

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On 1/21/2018 at 6:36 AM, Jane_Doe said:

The age and duration of missions is set by current policy, not scriptural doctrine.  So it does change through time, most recently about 6 years ago.  Currently the policy is:

Young men (age 18-25) serve 2 years.  Before 6 years ago it was age 19-25.

Young women (age 19-flexiable) serve 18 months.  Before it was 21-flexiable. 

Older single sisters (>25) is flexible.

Also have flexibility for older (empty nester) couples.  

Totally "amen" to loosing perspective so easily.   As to my sisters, being close and being their for each other leaves a mark and a depth that ever goes away.  As to how often we talk since then, it's waxed and waned depending on the sister and what's going on.  Like one of them we talked a lot for a little bit after we got home, then she got super distracted with dating/engaged/wedding + graduating/getting her dream job.  Now as married a woman working the dream job, we talk less frequently (~10 wks) but they are super high quality and we're very close (note: her nursing job dictates the "when we can talk" schedule).  

Current policy... Doesn't sound like a term you should come across regarding religion.... But I get how you meant it. 

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17 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I'd ask Why.  What I would say would depend on his answer to Why.  For example:

"I don't want to because I'd rather go join the military".  "Ok, look here son.  I'm not comfortable with you going to war, missions are a lot less dangerous in my opinion.  But if that's what you feel is the best path to serving God, let's make a deal - do what needs to be done to become an officer or the guy driving drones or the guy doing stuff at the Pentagon". 

"I don't want to because I think this Church is full of crap".  "Somewhere along the road, I failed in my teaching.  Give me until you're 18 to teach you better and if you still feel the same way then go on and search for what God has planned for you elsewhere.".

"I don't want to because I'd rather live in the basement, go on 4chan, and eat chicken tendies."  "No soup for you."

In any case, I never told them they have to go on a mission.  As a matter of fact, their dad did not go on a mission.  They simply want to and I'm not discouraging it.

Why is your handle Jane Doe? 

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16 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is a very good and very important question.  Thanks for asking this Jimmy!

I can't answer for anybody else but my family.  So, in my Filipino family - we are what we like to a call a Clan.  We have a family identity.  Our last name means something and it is defined by legacy left by our ancestors.  We can trace our family back to Lapulapu - the guy who killed Magellan.  Anyway, I grew up in a system where we do things because that is who we are as a family - for example, in our family, we strive to excel in academia.  I come home from school with 99/100 and my dad would ask me, why is this not 100?  That's just who we are.  So my brother was valedictorian in his class, I was valedictorian in my class, mostly because that's the standard our family set and not necessarily because it's a standard I set upon myself.  My other brother, on the other hand, has a consistent barely-passing grade.  And that's because he only does bare minimum in school because he spends all his time playing soccer.  So one day in his senior year, he came home with a failed grade.  My dad took all his soccer gear, put it in a drum, poured gas in it and lit it.  My brother and my dad did not speak after that.  My brother was only 16.  My brother eventually made it into the National team and had a very successful pro career that got him into the Hall of Fame (work ethic is also a family identity) until he broke his shoulder.  Good thing he had some of the family identity rub off on him and he spent the heyday of his soccer career completing a college degree at night with high marks.  So he was able to fall back on that degree to get a lucrative job after his career drastically ended.

So, in a way, family identity always has an impact on our lives.  And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Now, as far as the way I raise my kids - my family identity is Catholic.  My family did not speak to me when I decided to elope with my Mormon husband.  They eventually brought me back to the fold after I had my first kid.  So my kids are growing up in a multi-cultural, multi-faith family.  So, the way my husband and I raised our kids - we taught them to be Leaders and not just Followers.  They have a family identity - something my husband and I cultivated before we had the kids combining the good stuff in his family history and the good stuff from my family history.  So, yes, the family identity is LDS.  And LDS go on missions.  The family identity is excellence in Academics.  The family identity is impeccable work ethic.  The family identity is God-loving.  Their Filipino cousins share a lot of the same identity so even as they don't share the LDS background, they still have that sense of belonging.  That's a strong family influence and there's nothing wrong with that.  But as far as family pressure in the way that my brother was pressured by my dad to get his academic life in order - I don't disagree with my dad.  I simply disagreed with how he dealt with it.  In my family, we build the foundations of character in our kids and build a strong sense of identity that they are confident in.  They're not just left to "be who you are" without giving them guidance as to who they can become with the God-given talents they possess.  And on top of that, we give them the tools to be the masters of their own destiny.  So my kids know they can only rely on mom and dad's guidance for so long then they have to decide for themselves what their destiny is going to be.  And they should be strong enough to stand on the helm confident even amid the murmurs of their family and peers - because there will be murmurs, it's unavoidable, regardless of what they choose.  My kids know they can't control what other people do, they can only control how they react to them.

Hope this makes sense.

But hey, my oldest is only 16... who knows if my husband and I did the right thing in raising the kids.  I'll let you know in 50 years, I guess.  :D

 

Forgive my forwardness but can I ask is your Dad still alive and if so.. I hope so... What is the relationship like now between them? Did he end up proud that his son made the HOF? 

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@Jimmy TuckerHi there welcome to the Forum. I am not sure that the Lord is opposed to people working in the military. In Luke when the Roman soldiers ask for advice, the Lord does not tell the soldiers to quit, he tells them not to extract bribes. Luke 3:14.  The old testamement is full of instances of the Lord asking people to take up arms.

Look forward to your posts!

Edited by Sunday21

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7 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

I find that sad that her job and for most of us our jobs dictate... Well we allow our jobs I should say to dictate our lives. 

Heh, for her it's not as bad as it could be.  She works at the NICU, one week on, one week off.  Their's a bunch of studies showing this is the best schedule for the patient's care.  

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6 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

Forgive my forwardness but can I ask is your Dad still alive and if so.. I hope so... What is the relationship like now between them? Did he end up proud that his son made the HOF? 

My dad passed away 5 years ago.  My brother was 46 years old then.  The relationship has not improved since he was 16.  My dad loves my brother and my brother loves my dad - they both know it.  They are just both very stubborn.  So, my brother feels vindicated because he made a stellar career and made good money playing soccer.  My dad feels vindicated because my brother's academics allowed him to raise his family after the injury.  Both know the other was right too but what can I say, like father like son.  Anyway, my dad passed away in the Philippines.  My brother is in the US.  My other brother was with my dad when he passed and he called his brother to break the news.  But my brother said he already knows.  He said that my dad visited him.  He appeared to my brother as a personage of spirit and touched him.  He said it wasn't a physical touch, rather it felt like an ocean wave enveloping him and in his heart he felt my dad saying he's okay, he loves my brother, and everything is ok between them.  It was another affirmation to me about the afterlife and how the Holy Spirit communicates with each of us.

 

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7 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

Ahaha. Keeping the soup Nazi alive.. Fair enough.. It's been nice talking with you.. Everytime I think we're done you raise another topic.. I'm very surprised to hear you or the church doctrine are ok with Mormons joining the armed forces? How can someone possibly be a follower of Christ and involved in the horrors of war? Didn't Jesus day those who take the sword will perish by it? 

We have lots of stories in the Book of Mormon (and the Bible too, actually) where people made covenants with God to lay down the sword, then they get invaded and gets decimated and the next generation who did not make the covenant takes up the sword to defeat the enemy.  Goes in cycles.  The teaching is you only take the sword in righteousness.

So the quote - "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52) happened when Jesus was arrested and Peter tried to prevent the arrest.  Jesus already prepared Peter and the rest of the Apostles for the event that Jesus is going to have to die.  Peter then taking up the sword runs contrary to God's plan.  The verse in context goes:  "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.  Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?  But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?".

 

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6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@Jimmy TuckerHi there welcome to the Forum. I am not sure that the Lord is opposed to people working in the military. In Luke when the Roman soldiers ask for advice, the Lord does not tell the soldiers to quit, he tells them not to extract bribes. Luke 3:14.  The old testamement is full of instances of the Lord asking people to take up arms.

Look forward to your posts!

I mean I'm not claiming to know it as fact but I'm pretty positive if I told Jesus or God I was signing up for the military instead of going on a mission I would not have their blessing. 

And a myriad of things went  on in the old testament that we don't do today. Also God isn't telling anyone nowadays to take up Arms.. The only justified war or similar action is by God's doing.. Sodom and gomorrah.... The deluge of Noah's day.. Etc... Even if your not a religious person or don't believe in God why would you involve yourself in someone' else ridiculous war.. Putting your self at risk over something that' was probably started because some leader has a small penis and hates the world.. Hahahaha.  I wonder if this comment will be allowed now.. Lol

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6 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Heh, for her it's not as bad as it could be.  She works at the NICU, one week on, one week off.  Their's a bunch of studies showing this is the best schedule for the patient's care.  

That's sound like a good gig actually 

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

That's sound like a good gig actually 

It is.  She quite enjoys the work and the positive impact it has on people.

1 minute ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

That's not a real answer.. I mean why don't you want people to know your name? 

For online interactions with strangers, a handle is safer.  

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6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

We have lots of stories in the Book of Mormon (and the Bible too, actually) where people made covenants with God to lay down the sword, then they get invaded and gets decimated and the next generation who did not make the covenant takes up the sword to defeat the enemy.  Goes in cycles.  The teaching is you only take the sword in righteousness.

So the quote - "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52) happened when Jesus was arrested and Peter tried to prevent the arrest.  Jesus already prepared Peter and the rest of the Apostles for the event that Jesus is going to have to die.  Peter then taking up the sword runs contrary to God's plan.  The verse in context goes:  "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.  Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?  But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?".

 

Thank you for that.. Makes sense.... My point is none of the wars today are righteous so joining today's military I would assume would not be in accordance with Gods will for us in this time period. 

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2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

It is.  She quite enjoys the work and the positive impact it has on people.

For online interactions with strangers, a handle is safer.  

Well good.. But I meant getting 2 weeks off a month haha hahaha

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3 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

Thank you for that.. Makes sense.... My point is none of the wars today are righteous so joining today's military I would assume would not be in accordance with Gods will for us in this time period. 

This is a matter of perspective.  America exists because of its military.  It is the belief of the LDS Church that the founding of the USA and the US Constitution is divinely inspired.  Defending the US and its ideals of freedom is a righteous endeavor.  And just like the corruption of King David is put solely on David's shoulders, the corruption of government that directs our soldiers is also put squarely on the shoulders of government.

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7 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is a matter of perspective.  America exists because of its military.  It is the belief of the LDS Church that the founding of the USA and the US Constitution is divinely inspired.  Defending the US and its ideals of freedom is a righteous endeavor.  And just like the corruption of King David is put solely on David's shoulders, the corruption of government that directs our soldiers is also put squarely on the shoulders of government.

Well.. That's intriguing.. I suppose it is perspective.. But I would say it's man's perspective vs Gods.. My personal opinion I've formed over my lifetime.. Attending different churches reading the Bible.. Using my own discernment to come to know Christ is that in no way should a Christian or again anybody else get involved worldly matters.. Especially where horrors are committed.  we are to keep ourselves without spot from the world.. If Jesus was here I know he wouldn't be in the army or be a navy or even own a gun.  but that's just my view. 

As far as America being formed by divine intervenetion.. That made me laugh... Nationalism has no place in religion and if God guided certain people to this continent and inspired them to slaughter 75% of native Americans.. Rape women etc... Then I have no interest in serving a God like that.  But I don't believe that's true anyways. 

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11 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

It is.  She quite enjoys the work and the positive impact it has on people.

For online interactions with strangers, a handle is safer.  

What about personal interactions? When you meet someone new in-person do you introduce yourself as Jane doe? Isn't that what they call unidentified corpses? 

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3 minutes ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

What about personal interactions? When you meet someone new in-person do you introduce yourself as Jane doe? Isn't that what they call unidentified corpses? 

What I mean  is you're way more liklier to have something unsafe happen from someone on the street than online. Especially Mormon hub  .. Maybe I will change to Jimmy doe???? 

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4 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

Well.. That's intriguing.. I suppose it is perspective.. But I would say it's man's perspective vs Gods.. My personal opinion I've formed over my lifetime.. Attending different churches reading the Bible.. Using my own discernment to come to know Christ is that in no way should a Christian or again anybody else get involved worldly matters.. Especially where horrors are committed.  we are to keep ourselves without spot from the world.. If Jesus was here I know he wouldn't be in the army or be a navy or even own a gun.  but that's just my view. 

As far as America being formed by divine intervenetion.. That made me laugh... Nationalism has no place in religion and if God guided certain people to this continent and inspired them to slaughter 75% of native Americans.. Rape women etc... Then I have no interest in serving a God like that.  But I don't believe that's true anyways. 

Ok, the Seventh Day Adventists hold this view.

But to say Nationalism has no place in religion or that people shouldn't get involved in worldly matters means to reject, pretty much, the Bible.

As far as the founding of the USA, this event was a necessary condition to bring about the restoration of the gospel.  Without it, the restoration wouldn't have been possible.

Edited by anatess2

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On 1/24/2018 at 6:30 AM, anatess2 said:

Ok, the Seventh Day Adventists hold this view.

But to say Nationalism has no place in religion or that people shouldn't get involved in worldly matters means to reject, pretty much, the Bible.

As far as the founding of the USA, this event was a necessary condition to bring about the restoration of the gospel.  Without it, the restoration wouldn't have been possible.

Ok.. I thought this was mormonhub... Why are you relaying 7th day Adventist views? And who made them the end all be all on this topic or any other? If that's their view that's fine.. I have my own view and its no less relevant than theirs.   "Wisdom of the world' is foolishness with God "  therefore I'm not interested in someone's "view" because that word impies there are several of them 

Would you mind explaining  a little more why you think The USA had to exist for the gospel to be restored? You keep leaving me with cliff hangers.. Hahaha 

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 3:13 PM, Jimmy Tucker said:

So if one of  you're children told you they didn't want to be a missionary what would you say? 

Join the Army. 

I suppose that makes me evil.

However, if the boys didn't want to go on a mission, and didn't go to college, they needed a plan in life.  Joining the Military is as good as anything and at least sets them on a path.

Now days that may not be the best answer as I understand regulations for entering are stricter and it is harder to even join the military.

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