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Jimmy Tucker
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1 minute ago, JohnsonJones said:

Join the Army. 

I suppose that makes me evil.

However, if the boys didn't want to go on a mission, and didn't go to college, they needed a plan in life.  Joining the Military is as good as anything and at least sets them on a path.

Now days that may not be the best answer as I understand regulations for entering are stricter and it is harder to even join the military.

I'm really surprised to hear that in this forum.. I mean yes it's not the best answer but not because it's stricter now but because it's war.. And in this time period almost certainly a meaningless war.  religious reasons  aside even I would never suggest to my son just he join the military

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3 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

I'm really surprised to hear that in this forum.. I mean yes it's not the best answer but not because it's stricter now but because it's war.. And in this time period almost certainly a meaningless war.  religious reasons  aside even I would never suggest to my son just he join the military

Yeah, we're on a different perspective on this one.

For example, last year, ISIS took over one city in my country (Philippines).  Yep - the entire city and surrounding towns.  They killed govt officials, hoisted their flag, and killed anybody in opposition or those who wouldn't convert.  Fortunately, we have a team of special forces (trained by the US Marines) who was able to take back the city.  Nobody else could have done the job.  Not even the US Navy Seals.  These Filipino rangers know that terrain like the back of their hand and could recognize tracks, marks, etc. in the mountain and the wilderness where the cells could hide.  The entire Southern Philippines was put under martial law and after 6 months, the special forces killed the ISIS head honcho and took the city back.  Now, why I am very supportive of the US military - we couldn't have done that without them.  We relied on their intel and their air support (surveillance) and, of course, their training.  And then we relied on the military aid that provided for the displaced families and the military aid that helped rebuild the city after the enemy was defeated.

You can dislike war all you like, my friend, but when it comes for you, it's war you have to fight.

In any case, we kicked out the US Bases from our country because of the foreign policies of the US in the past - they were big interventionists and we did not want that even as we rely on our military alliance.  That's why I am very vocal and very passionate about my support for Trump even as I'm not American.  The war last year was just another vast improvement in the US way of doing business.  Instead of running the mission themselves as part of the war on terror, they left the Filipinos alone to decide what to do with the problem and they simply provided what we desperately needed.  Trump is doing the same thing in Syria, Pacific theater, Mid East.  It's a very welcome change and we hope Trump foreign policy remains for generations to come.

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4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Yeah, we're on a different perspective on this one.

For example, last year, ISIS took over one city in my country (Philippines).  Yep - the entire city and surrounding towns.  They killed govt officials, hoisted their flag, and killed anybody in opposition or those who wouldn't convert.  Fortunately, we have a team of special forces (trained by the US Marines) who was able to take back the city.  Nobody else could have done the job.  Not even the US Navy Seals.  These Filipino rangers know that terrain like the back of their hand and could recognize tracks, marks, etc. in the mountain and the wilderness where the cells could hide.  The entire Southern Philippines was put under martial law and after 6 months, the special forces killed the ISIS head honcho and took the city back.  Now, why I am very supportive of the US military - we couldn't have done that without them.  We relied on their intel and their air support (surveillance) and, of course, their training.  And then we relied on the military aid that provided for the displaced families and the military aid that helped rebuild the city after the enemy was defeated.

You can dislike war all you like, my friend, but when it comes for you, it's war you have to fight.

In any case, we kicked out the US Bases from our country because of the foreign policies of the US in the past - they were big interventionists and we did not want that even as we rely on our military alliance.  That's why I am very vocal and very passionate about my support for Trump even as I'm not American.  The war last year was just another vast improvement in the US way of doing business.  Instead of running the mission themselves as part of the war on terror, they left the Filipinos alone to decide what to do with the problem and they simply provided what we desperately needed.  Trump is doing the same thing in Syria, Pacific theater, Mid East.  It's a very welcome change and we hope Trump foreign policy remains for generations to come.

And how many on that special forces team were Mormon? 

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54 minutes ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

And how many on that special forces team were Mormon? 

You say I can dislike war all I want as if you like war?  When or if war comes for me there will be no hesitation on my part to defend my son and myself.. And if successful  I will hang their corpses in the town square and gut them like animals and as they bleed out slowly I will look into their eyes to watch the last bit of their life extinguish and will feel no guilt no empathy no remorse. I Almost welcome it after a lifetime of witnessing injustice I've got alot of anger and frustrations that need an outlet. 

But war coming to me is extremely different then me going to war..  Enlisting.. Joining.. Seeking.. No I have to disagree.. That's not what God wants for his people.  someone said in a previous comment the Americas were established or put in place so Gods plan can be fulfilled.. Well then if he puts country's in place to carry out his will then he puts people In place also.. Meaning Police.. Soldiers.. Politicians.. God is the puppet master.. Us.. Me.  and you Ana Tess we shouldn't be concerning ourselves with these matters we are In place to be the light bearers.. The owners of the Good News.. You see?... We have to know our role in this grand plan.. We can't preach thou shalt not kill and then become a navy seal.. Lol

Now if war comes to your door step then fight yes of course kill if needed. Hate if you have to . But until it does do the opposite.. Save.. Shepherd.. Love. 

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53 minutes ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

Now if war comes to your door step then fight yes of course kill if needed. Hate if you have to . But until it does do the opposite.. Save.. Shepherd.. Love. 

When war is upon you it's too late to start training.  The enemy will have years of experience, and you won't even know how you're really going to react the first time a bullet whirrs past your head.

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Just now, Jimmy Tucker said:

Idk why you assume I'm not trained already.. 

So why do we spend all this time praying.. Asking God to protect us etc.. Going to church.. If our fate is that were going to be attacked and shot by some enemy? We should all just stop the worship and join the armed forces and train so as to defend ourselves to save our own lives.  sounds like you have no faith at all. 

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22 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Join the Army. 

I suppose that makes me evil.

However, if the boys didn't want to go on a mission, and didn't go to college, they needed a plan in life.  Joining the Military is as good as anything and at least sets them on a path.

Now days that may not be the best answer as I understand regulations for entering are stricter and it is harder to even join the military.

Joining the military is as good as any other? There's a huge wall in Washington with names of soldiers who have died in combat.. Show me the wall that has the names of all the people that have died attending college and I will agree with your statement 100%

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Just now, Jimmy Tucker said:

Joining the military is as good as any other? There's a huge wall in Washington with names of soldiers who have died in combat.. Show me the wall that has the names of all the people that have died attending college and I will agree with your statement 100%

There's a movie with Anthony Hopkins called Legends of the fall.. You should watch it 

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2 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

Joining the military is as good as any other? There's a huge wall in Washington with names of soldiers who have died in combat.. Show me the wall that has the names of all the people that have died attending college and I will agree with your statement 100%

???

I'm not sure I'm following your line of logic.

There may be a higher chance of a fellow dying in college from myriad number of reasons than in the military these days...but that aside...

The reason there is a huge wall in Washington with names is because for patriots...those names mean something.  Those are men (and sometimes women) who died fighting for our nation and our country. 

For someone who has no direction in life the military is a great option, it gives them direction, and gives them skills which they may be able to use when they get out of the military.

If, per chance they die while serving our nation, then they have died for a great cause, which are the freedoms and liberty we enjoy and promoting the ideals or goals of our nation in whatever endeavor they perished pursuing. 

That did not happen to any of my children, but if it did, I would be saddened but also proud of my children that would sacrifice for the greater objectives of our nation. (and, 90% of the jobs in the military are non-combat...most jobs are support roles rather than combat roles.  Nevertheless, as in the marines...every marine is ready to fight and prepared.)

Mormons differ and they vary.  There are some that are probably conscientious objectors.  There are others that are like me that are very patriotic for our nation and supportive of those who serve in the military. 

Mormonism is good in that it does not dictate the concerns of the heart in this manner, and thus you will find people of all stripes and opinions in the matter of war and national defense.  Some are like me and patriotic in regards to our military.  Others are probably very adverse to the military or the way the US has utilized it to promote it's goals.  Some perhaps are even opposed to what the US does...but are still good Mormons.  I, on the otherhand, support our military and our troops.

If we turn to the Bible we see multiple times in the Old Testament where the Israelites gathered in battle and fought against their enemies.

Turning to the New Testament, the Lord was normally peaceful and taught to turn the other cheek, but even he became violent when things pertaining to the laws of the Lord were threatened.  One prominent incident is where he went to the temple (and the weapon he wielded was not necessarily a weapon which would not cause great harm, in fact it could cause a tremendous amount of harm.  Non-biblical scholars have at times theorized this was the reason he actually was on trial because such a weapon might not just hurt, it could maim and possibly kill) and in anger, overturned tables and attacked people until the money changers were chased out of the temple.

I am not saying we should all become violent and go to war, but I am saying for me, serving in the military is a patriotic thing one can do, and for young men who are lacking direction, rather than rotting away in their parents basement, for ME and my family it was a valid choice.

Of course, my kids left the house decades ago at this point, and things may be different today, but back in the 80s and 90s the military was a good choice for a young man that had not determined his direction in life as of yet.  In addition to giving them direction and skills they could use, it served our nations interest in promoting our ideals and our freedoms.

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4 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

So why do we spend all this time praying.. Asking God to protect us etc.. Going to church.. If our fate is that were going to be attacked and shot by some enemy? We should all just stop the worship and join the armed forces and train so as to defend ourselves to save our own lives.  sounds like you have no faith at all. 

Please read the Book of Mormon.  Preferably all of it, but if not all of it, start in Alma 43 and read to the end.  It answers all your questions about war.  And it has the power to convince you of truth (if you will do as Moroni instructs) where we do not.

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16 hours ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

So why do we spend all this time praying.. Asking God to protect us etc.. Going to church.. If our fate is that were going to be attacked and shot by some enemy? We should all just stop the worship and join the armed forces and train so as to defend ourselves to save our own lives.  sounds like you have no faith at all. 

Why waste time carrying out the trash or having a job?  Don't you have faith that God can get rid of your garbage and send you a paycheck when He's ready for you to have it?

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On 1/26/2018 at 2:43 PM, Jimmy Tucker said:

And how many on that special forces team were Mormon? 

No idea.  Philippines - predominantly Catholic, like 80% or so.  My uncle was one of them before he retired - he was Catholic then, he's Born Again now.  But with the Mormon Church rapidly expanding in the country, I wouldn't be surprised to learn one of them is Mormon.

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On 1/26/2018 at 3:59 PM, Jimmy Tucker said:

You say I can dislike war all I want as if you like war?  When or if war comes for me there will be no hesitation on my part to defend my son and myself.. And if successful  I will hang their corpses in the town square and gut them like animals and as they bleed out slowly I will look into their eyes to watch the last bit of their life extinguish and will feel no guilt no empathy no remorse. I Almost welcome it after a lifetime of witnessing injustice I've got alot of anger and frustrations that need an outlet. 

But war coming to me is extremely different then me going to war..  Enlisting.. Joining.. Seeking.. No I have to disagree.. That's not what God wants for his people.  someone said in a previous comment the Americas were established or put in place so Gods plan can be fulfilled.. Well then if he puts country's in place to carry out his will then he puts people In place also.. Meaning Police.. Soldiers.. Politicians.. God is the puppet master.. Us.. Me.  and you Ana Tess we shouldn't be concerning ourselves with these matters we are In place to be the light bearers.. The owners of the Good News.. You see?... We have to know our role in this grand plan.. We can't preach thou shalt not kill and then become a navy seal.. Lol

Now if war comes to your door step then fight yes of course kill if needed. Hate if you have to . But until it does do the opposite.. Save.. Shepherd.. Love. 

I see what you're saying but I see it as too short-sighted.

For example, if you're in Marawi and ISIS took your town... you don't think it is prudent to have trained forces from outside of Marawi ready and willing with all the equipment necessary to fight that war?   You think the people of Marawi should be able to defend themselves from ISIS on their own? 

MARAWI_COVER-2_main.jpg

I don't agree with this.  This is signing the death sentence of the people of Marawi.  This is how evil spreads.  When we let it spread through the land because... it's somebody else's sons and not ours.  Yes, we need law enforcers, we need warriors, we need a strong society because it is the only way Freedom can reign.  And Freedom is the ultimate necessity in one's ability to follow Christ.

These soldiers sacrifice themselves in the service of "saving people's sons".  In the Philippines, every single person - men and women - are required to take one year of Citizen's Army Training.  Men are required to take an additional 2 years of ROTC.  It is the law.  Every citizen of the Philippines can be called upon at any time to defend the people of the Philippines from war.  We are allied with the US and in that alliance, the US is the benefactor and we are the beneficiary - that is, we rely more on them than they rely on us.  But even then, we send our warriors to defend the US as well.  We provide the "wall" between Asia and the Pacific towards Guam and Hawaii.

The people of Marawi would have Citizen's Army Training at the least.  But even then, that is not enough to stop ISIS (and all the Islamic terrorists before it as well as the Communist insurrection) from laying waste to the city.

But, I do respect your decision not to join in the defense of my country.  The US has not been very good with their policies in the past decades - they've been quite horrible actually.  The current policy holds a lot more promise.  But we do still remember when Gen. McArthur put heart and soul in the defense of our nation and we are eternally grateful for it.

 

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On 1/27/2018 at 5:04 AM, JohnsonJones said:

???

I'm not sure I'm following your line of logic.

There may be a higher chance of a fellow dying in college from myriad number of reasons than in the military these days...but that aside...

The reason there is a huge wall in Washington with names is because for patriots...those names mean something.  Those are men (and sometimes women) who died fighting for our nation and our country. 

For someone who has no direction in life the military is a great option, it gives them direction, and gives them skills which they may be able to use when they get out of the military.

If, per chance they die while serving our nation, then they have died for a great cause, which are the freedoms and liberty we enjoy and promoting the ideals or goals of our nation in whatever endeavor they perished pursuing. 

That did not happen to any of my children, but if it did, I would be saddened but also proud of my children that would sacrifice for the greater objectives of our nation. (and, 90% of the jobs in the military are non-combat...most jobs are support roles rather than combat roles.  Nevertheless, as in the marines...every marine is ready to fight and prepared.)

Mormons differ and they vary.  There are some that are probably conscientious objectors.  There are others that are like me that are very patriotic for our nation and supportive of those who serve in the military. 

Mormonism is good in that it does not dictate the concerns of the heart in this manner, and thus you will find people of all stripes and opinions in the matter of war and national defense.  Some are like me and patriotic in regards to our military.  Others are probably very adverse to the military or the way the US has utilized it to promote it's goals.  Some perhaps are even opposed to what the US does...but are still good Mormons.  I, on the otherhand, support our military and our troops.

If we turn to the Bible we see multiple times in the Old Testament where the Israelites gathered in battle and fought against their enemies.

Turning to the New Testament, the Lord was normally peaceful and taught to turn the other cheek, but even he became violent when things pertaining to the laws of the Lord were threatened.  One prominent incident is where he went to the temple (and the weapon he wielded was not necessarily a weapon which would not cause great harm, in fact it could cause a tremendous amount of harm.  Non-biblical scholars have at times theorized this was the reason he actually was on trial because such a weapon might not just hurt, it could maim and possibly kill) and in anger, overturned tables and attacked people until the money changers were chased out of the temple.

I am not saying we should all become violent and go to war, but I am saying for me, serving in the military is a patriotic thing one can do, and for young men who are lacking direction, rather than rotting away in their parents basement, for ME and my family it was a valid choice.

Of course, my kids left the house decades ago at this point, and things may be different today, but back in the 80s and 90s the military was a good choice for a young man that had not determined his direction in life as of yet.  In addition to giving them direction and skills they could use, it served our nations interest in promoting our ideals and our freedoms.

 I have respect for anybody who would join the military and put their life on the line.. And yes it provide good direction and gives people skills.. 

My line if logic is that I think any Christian should be a conscientious objective that's all.  and that wall has many names that died in vain also and you know it.  the majority of the wars weren't justified. I mean we get one life so I'm not risking it for some politicians. 

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

I see what you're saying but I see it as too short-sighted.

For example, if you're in Marawi and ISIS took your town... you don't think it is prudent to have trained forces from outside of Marawi ready and willing with all the equipment necessary to fight that war?   You think the people of Marawi should be able to defend themselves from ISIS on their own? 

MARAWI_COVER-2_main.jpg

I don't agree with this.  This is signing the death sentence of the people of Marawi.  This is how evil spreads.  When we let it spread through the land because... it's somebody else's sons and not ours.  Yes, we need law enforcers, we need warriors, we need a strong society because it is the only way Freedom can reign.  And Freedom is the ultimate necessity in one's ability to follow Christ.

These soldiers sacrifice themselves in the service of "saving people's sons".  In the Philippines, every single person - men and women - are required to take one year of Citizen's Army Training.  Men are required to take an additional 2 years of ROTC.  It is the law.  Every citizen of the Philippines can be called upon at any time to defend the people of the Philippines from war.  We are allied with the US and in that alliance, the US is the benefactor and we are the beneficiary - that is, we rely more on them than they rely on us.  But even then, we send our warriors to defend the US as well.  We provide the "wall" between Asia and the Pacific towards Guam and Hawaii.

The people of Marawi would have Citizen's Army Training at the least.  But even then, that is not enough to stop ISIS (and all the Islamic terrorists before it as well as the Communist insurrection) from laying waste to the city.

But, I do respect your decision not to join in the defense of my country.  The US has not been very good with their policies in the past decades - they've been quite horrible actually.  The current policy holds a lot more promise.  But we do still remember when Gen. McArthur put heart and soul in the defense of our nation and we are eternally grateful for it.

 

Of course theres should be trained forces.. I'm saying I don't think true Christians should be members of them. 

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

No idea.  Philippines - predominantly Catholic, like 80% or so.  My uncle was one of them before he retired - he was Catholic then, he's Born Again now.  But with the Mormon Church rapidly expanding in the country, I wouldn't be surprised to learn one of them is Mormon.

I should have said Christian sorry 

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14 minutes ago, Jimmy Tucker said:

My line if logic is that I think any Christian should be a conscientious objective that's all.  

There's a difference between "I believe God wants me to..." and "I believe any Christian should/should not..."

One is discipleship.
The other is often unrighteous judgment. 

So, there's a lot of military here in Colorado Springs.  A lot of military in my ward.  People deploying out, returning home, etc.  LDS folks I know who have had combat roles include a few Special Forces LDS, an attack chopper pilot, a combat medic or two.  Some bear the scars of PTSD, some enjoy what they do and look forward to going back and doing it to some more bad guys.  We also seem to have some sort of satellite/space command center here - lots of people with secret clearances who can't be specific.  But they talk about how hard it was to become aware of the evil being done in other parts of the world, and how grateful they are to be able to help put a permanent end to various elements of it from half a planet away.

Pray tell Mr. Tucker - what are your thoughts about the Christianity of these, my fellow ward members?  

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3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

There's a difference between "I believe God wants me to..." and "I believe any Christian should/should not..."

One is discipleship.
The other is often unrighteous judgment. 

So, there's a lot of military here in Colorado Springs.  A lot of military in my ward.  People deploying out, returning home, etc.  LDS folks I know who have had combat roles include a few Special Forces LDS, an attack chopper pilot, a combat medic or two.  Some bear the scars of PTSD, some enjoy what they do and look forward to going back and doing it to some more bad guys.  We also seem to have some sort of satellite/space command center here - lots of people with secret clearances who can't be specific.  But they talk about how hard it was to become aware of the evil being done in other parts of the world, and how grateful they are to be able to help put a permanent end to various elements of it from half a planet away.

Pray tell Mr. Tucker - what are your thoughts about the Christianity of these, my fellow ward members?  

Well I don't know them personally and I'm in no position to judge.. I can only reitterate that were suppose to be having faith that God is going to right all the wrongs.. bring justice.. Not mankind.. Mankind is the very reason we have military.. See the irony?? Mankind has been forced to establish groups.. Police.. Soldiers... Army.. Navy.. SWAT teams.. Navy seals.. Green Berets.. To regulate who? MANKIND.. We can't govern ourselves it's futile.  we should be spending our time bringing people to the church and spreading the  good news about Christ. 

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Just now, Jimmy Tucker said:

Well I don't know them personally and I'm in no position to judge.. I can only reitterate that were suppose to be having faith that God is going to right all the wrongs.. bring justice.. Not mankind.. Mankind is the very reason we have military.. See the irony?? Mankind has been forced to establish groups.. Police.. Soldiers... Army.. Navy.. SWAT teams.. Navy seals.. Green Berets.. To regulate who? MANKIND.. We can't govern ourselves it's futile.  we should be spending our time bringing people to the church and spreading the  good news about Christ. 

If we're gonna join military groups or become politicians then let's just ram our heads against a wall.. Same result. 

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