Secret Society

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This seems to be your hobby horse.

So, let me explore this.  You think that lowering taxes is keeping government big?  And show me the "every indication of exploding the debt"?  And you think this is the primary cause for the government shutdown and not the Dreamers?

I'm not really sure how they can keep faith with people like you.  You're about the only one I know who does not claim to be a Socialist who is against reducing taxes.

So this is your position - "The debt is big because of runaway government so we need to continue to fleece people to pay for a debt their stupid government incurred".

Tax Plan to increase deficit

Tax plan boosts growth increases debt

Tax cuts expected to increase debt

 

But wait...wait...remember this...and the arguments from Cruz and others from 2010 onwards...

wikipedia United States debt ceiling crisis of 2013

Quote

The 2013 United States debt-ceiling crisis centered on the raising of the federal government debt ceiling, and is part of an ongoing political debate in the United States Congress about federal government spending and the national debt. The crisis began in January 2013, when the United States reached the debt ceiling of $16.394 trillion that had been enacted following the debt ceiling crisis of 2011.

Members of the Republican Party in Congress opposed raising the debt ceiling, which had been routinely raised previously on a bipartisan basis without conditions, without additional spending cuts. The US Treasury began taking extraordinary measures to enable payments, and stated that it would delay payments if funds could not be raised through extraordinary measures, and the debt ceiling was not raised. The crisis ended on October 17, 2013 with the passing of the Continuing Appropriations Act, 2014, although debate continues about the appropriate level of government spending, and the use of the debt ceiling in such negotiations.

Yeppers, that's what we call Hypocrisy.

I'm equal opportunity...as I said, I also think the Democrats lost a LOT Of faith recently with their government shut down.  When on the opposing side, they said all sorts of things about how it was criminal to shut down the government and other items...and yet...here they are...doing it themselves...basically jumping off the high road and showing that they are just as bad if not worse than Republicans.

Two sides of the same coin..

[anatess2]

14 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Tax Plan to increase deficit

Tax plan boosts growth increases debt

Tax cuts expected to increase debt

 

But wait...wait...remember this...and the arguments from Cruz and others from 2010 onwards...

wikipedia United States debt ceiling crisis of 2013

Yeppers, that's what we call Hypocrisy.

I'm equal opportunity...as I said, I also think the Democrats lost a LOT Of faith recently with their government shut down.  When on the opposing side, they said all sorts of things about how it was criminal to shut down the government and other items...and yet...here they are...doing it themselves...basically jumping off the high road and showing that they are just as bad if not worse than Republicans.

Two sides of the same coin..

They said the same thing about Reagan's tax cuts but it wasn't the tax cut that put Reagan's administration into debt, it was the Cold War.  Clinton's administration balanced the budget because of the tax cuts.

But REGARDLESS of what tax cuts do to the debt, you are still in this mindset that Government Debt is supposed to be reduced by fleecing the private sector's money through taxes.  If a Tax Cut does not cost the government anything then there was NO tax cut - there was simply moving the tax burden from one segment of society to another segment of society.

What reduces Government Debt is REDUCING THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.  And reducing the money that government has available for them to spend is one way of forcing the government to reduce government spending.  Unfortunately, YOU yourself don't want that.  You just advocated for a living wage!  So it is not the Republicans who are hypocrites... it is you.  At least Democrats don't pretend to want to reduce government debt as they advocate to spend more government money.

Edited January 30, 2018 by anatess2

[JohnsonJones]

6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

They said the same thing about Reagan's tax cuts but it wasn't the tax cut that put Reagan's administration into debt, it was the Cold War.  Clinton's administration balanced the budget because of the tax cuts.

But REGARDLESS of what tax cuts do to the debt, you are still in this mindset that Government Debt is supposed to be reduced by fleecing the private sector's money through taxes.  If a Tax Cut does not cost the government anything then there was NO tax cut - there was simply moving the tax burden from one segment of society to another segment of society.

What reduces Government Debt is REDUCING THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.  And reducing the money that government has available for them to spend is one way of forcing the government to reduce government spending.  Unfortunately, YOU yourself don't want that.  You just advocated for a living wage!  So it is not the Republicans who are hypocrites... it is you.  At least Democrats don't pretend to want to reduce government debt as they advocate to spend more government money.

I don't recall saying I'm for a smaller government...I'm pointing out the dishonesty of Republicans in their own statements...I can do it just as easily for Democrats.  Both parties have their own secret societies and agendas, and both are corrupt and evil from my viewpoint.  As some have pointed out in the thread, this should be no surprise considering how much the Book of Mormon discusses Secret Societies, and as it is written for our day...very defined upon us.

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I don't recall saying I'm for a smaller government...I'm pointing out the dishonesty of Republicans in their own statements...I can do it just as easily for Democrats.  Both parties have their own secret societies and agendas, and both are corrupt and evil from my viewpoint.  As some have pointed out in the thread, this should be no surprise considering how much the Book of Mormon discusses Secret Societies, and as it is written for our day...very defined upon us.

Hah... Now I'm un-confused. 

Then this matter is simple.  You think that Republicans want to reduce government by making people pay for the government's runaway spending.  That is stupid.  Republicans want to reduce government by LITERALLY REDUCING GOVERNMENT.  There's no dishonesty when reducing Taxes has no bearing on the size of government!

Actually, I'm still confused.  You whined about not getting a tax cut... yet you don't want to reduce government spending... so, you're just complaining that OTHER PEOPLE are not paying for the government spending you want spent?

Edited January 30, 2018 by anatess2

[NeuroTypical]

Here's what people think:
Let's say I have a dozen stores that cost 1 million dollars to run.  I sell stuff to people and they give me $500k a year, and borrow the rest.  This is unsustainable, but whatever.
Let's say I reduce prices and now people give me $450k a year.  
I've done nothing but lose more money.

Here's a bit closer to reality:
Let's say I have a govt that spends $1 million per year.  I tax people $500k a year, and borrow the rest. This is unsustainable, but inflation makes it slightly less unsustainable, so whatever.
Let's say I lower taxes.  I will actually bring in maybe $550k or even $600k in taxes.

Yes, I am saying lower taxes will increase total tax revenue.  For at least one year, maybe longer.  That seems weird, but it's true.  Here's one of several reasons why:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html?__source=sharebar|facebook&par=sharebar

Edited January 30, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[anatess2]

12 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Here's what people think:
Let's say I have a dozen stores that cost 1 million dollars to run.  I sell stuff to people and they give me $500k a year, and borrow the rest.  This is unsustainable, but whatever.
Let's say I reduce prices and now people give me $450k a year.  
I've done nothing but lose more money.

Here's a bit closer to reality:
Let's say I have a govt that spends $1 million per year.  I tax people $500k a year, and borrow the rest. This is unsustainable, but inflation makes it slightly less unsustainable, so whatever.
Let's say I lower taxes.  I will actually bring in maybe $550k or even $600k in taxes.

Yes, I am saying lower taxes will increase total tax revenue.  For at least one year, maybe longer.  That seems weird, but it's true.  Here's one of several reasons why:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html?__source=sharebar|facebook&par=sharebar

Here's what it SHOULD be:
Let's say I have a govt that spends $1 million per year.  I tax people $500k a year, and borrow the rest. This is unsustainable, but inflation makes it slightly less unsustainable, so whatever.
Let's say I lower taxes.  I will actually bring in maybe $550k or even $600k in taxes.  This is still too much money, so I lower taxes even more, eliminating taxes for certain transactions until I end up with only $450k a year.
I then force the government to shut down so all non-essential government work is identified, then re-open the government with only the essentials to bring government spending down to $400k a year stopping the debt cycle and putting $50k a year towards paying the darned thing off.

 

You know why this will never happen?  Because you have a political class whose jobs rely on how much they can get government to spend.  And for some reason, the electorate can't fire them or give them minimum wages.

Edited January 30, 2018 by anatess2

[bytebear]

I believe the government specifically has drone jobs that are only there to give people a job.  No actual production, no real tasks to do, just drone along.

[mrmarklin]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:27 AM, Traveler said:

For a long time, I have been concerned about a “secret society” operating within our government.   Though I believed it and thought to see the possibility – I could not conclusively prove it.   According to a testimony (in the news) by Trey Gowdy, texts sent between a high FBI government official and a girlfriend specifically mentions a “secret society” operating and coordinating both within the FBI and the Justice Department among high government officials in those agencies.   Here is a link: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/fbis-strzok-and-page-spoke-secret-society-after-trump-election-lawmakers-say.html

 

As some may realize – I am not a great fan of Trump but it would seem that Trump’s election has overturned some stones and we are seeing some vermin scurrying to avert public gaze.  It is my opinion that we are not seeing anything close to the actual depth of the infection.  I think things could get interesting – Interesting is my way of saying that it may be a good time to repent and increase our food storage.

 

The Traveler

I think they were referring to a society of two.  Themselves.

There is a not so secret society out there, however.  That is the insidiousness of Socialism/Communism.  If one looks at the tactics of the leftists in the US over the past year, it is exactly the same sort of tactics used around the world by these same fellow travelers to gain power in many societies.