Our Leaders are mostly white and American


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5 minutes ago, Vort said:
27 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

i also believe that the malicious intent ascribed by the writer of that SLTrib article to the church because of the fact that leadership is mostly white, american, and male, is misplaced.

Someone hasn't read the SL Tribulation much.

Seriously, the point is that the SL Trib has such a well-established history of this sort of thing that it would be naivete, blindness, or artifice to claim that such an event is merely accidental or a one-time slip. To put it in terms of racism: When some random person makes a comment that seems racially insensitive, it makes sense to give him the benefit of the doubt. When the guy is wearing a sheet with a pointed hood, maybe less so.

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4 minutes ago, Vort said:

Seriously, the point is that the SL Trib has such a well-established history of this sort of thing that it would be naivete, blindness, or artifice to claim that such an event is merely accidental or a one-time slip. To put it in terms of racism: When some random person makes a comment that seems racially insensitive, it makes sense to give him the benefit of the doubt. When the guy is wearing a sheet with a pointed hood, maybe less so.

I took lost's comment to mean that he thinks the Tribulation was wrong in ascribing malicious intent to Church leaders.  (FWIW)

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2 minutes ago, zil said:

I took lost's comment to mean that he thinks the Tribulation was wrong in ascribing malicious intent to Church leaders.  (FWIW)

This is true.  Though in fairness, i think @Vort correctly surmised that i meant that sword to cut both ways.  i think in general, the malice and intent we see in the actions of others is misplaced.  No doubt i'm wrong on occasion, but i think is rare.  And, i don't think there is any person on earth with "pure" malice - which is what people so often use to justify their hatred of another person.  i've found that what we see as malice, when you begin to take it apart, is mostly just pain and hurt that's festered, but will clean up real well, if we're willing to treat others better than we think they deserve.

And, @Vort is also right that i do not read the SL Tribune much.  In other words, @Vort pretty much nailed it.  :) 

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I think the article was EXCELLENT and did a terrific job of explaining the why's and what's.  I think it was exactly accurate.

In regards to the overall picture, I think there are Mormons in the US ARE unconsciously racist to a degree (and perhaps some that are purposefully racist).  If one takes a gander at the school districts and elected officials of Happy Valley, or parts of Salt Lake where you have a huge Hispanic population without representation and the school districts also show this, or some parts of Idaho or Arizona where Mormons are predominant, you can see a type of separation that reminds one of the Southern separation of races in the 70s and 80s after supposed integration...but where lawsuits were still going on which actually forced further integration.  In this way, one could view the ethnic Hispanics (Mestizo's and others who have the native American Background) to be much like the Japanese-Americans who do not really focus on the discrimination they receive, but are a silent discriminated group.  They do not speak out.  They have their own society that is a hidden culture that lives right alongside our own culture.

Unlike the South and Great Plains where integration continued, mostly due to African Americans speaking out and pushing lawsuits, this is not occurring in the West with Latinos and Hispanics.  Thus, that same network that you saw in the South in the 70s and 80s, I see EXTREMELY prevalent in the West currently, especially in areas dominated by Mormons. 

Talking to Mormons though, most also sound exactly like they did in the South in the 70s and 80s as well.  They will always say they are not discriminating and everyone is attaining as per their life merits.  It does not matter that in relation to the local governments, in essence, these minorities are not represented in a percentage that is reflective of the population of the area (which means in some cases, it is a reality of taxation without representation) in some locations (this is not speaking about ALL locations, though same may jump the gun and assume that is what I am saying).

I went driving with a less-active member one week.  That member would be counted as a minority.  They were pulled over THREE TIMES that week, normally for things that were surprising (going 2 mph over the speed limit, ...etc).  They did not receive any tickets, but were asked for the usual DL and registration.  I asked them if this was unusual and they stated that this was actually quite normal for them.  This is not something I had ever experienced, and showed to me a difference in their lives vs. my life.

That said, I actually AGREE with what the article stated and WHY we have our leadership reflected the way it is.  This occurs all the way down the church.  People are called in the same manner.  When looking for who to call, you reflect upon the people that you already know.  You PRAY and ASK about them and seek the Lord.  You do not normally go to someone blindly off a list and throw darts (I know, some think that's how it happens, but it's not - that's a good way to get someone that cannot do the calling or otherwise).  It is like how we obtain blessings at times in our lives, where after we do all that we can do, the Lord helps us actually accomplish it.  In this same way, we are trying to do all we can as per the Lord's desires, and then the Lord helps us that leader (whether a Auxiliary leader, Bishop, Stake President, Seventy, etc.) with the inspiration to make the call.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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20 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I think it will be fun as we increase our membership outside of North America. Think of the parties! The family reunions! We have one member from the Congo. That Bro is his own traveling party just himself. People from the Congo are very gracious and welcoming. What missionaries we will have! ???

We had a missionary from Tonga!  We had a ward party and he asked to lead the thing.  We ended up having a luau, wore grass skirts, ate pineapples, and he led the men on a crazily rousing haka that was soooo long I thought that was the entire party.  Hah hah.  It was awesome.

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10 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

The Church needs perspective from outside the Mormon corridor, that’s for certain. 

 

I dont care about color, but the next apostles should come from outside the first world. 

I don't believe it matters.  You don't get to be an Apostle without having been exposed to the travails of the worldwide Missions and their challenges in the spreading of the word.  Then we have Seventies and other Authorities locaized to that area with the Priesthood Power to govern themselves.

The Apostles give principles that apply to all children of God.  The local leadership govern how it applies to that locality.

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On 1/25/2018 at 10:40 PM, mrmarklin said:

1.The Church needs perspective from outside the Mormon corridor, that’s for certain. 

2. I dont care about color, but the next apostles should come from outside the first world. 

1. Who says they don't?

2. Why?

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What I find remarkable is the high quality of our apostles. There is not a bad apple amongst them. I can’t get over that. The leader of a provincial party that I was going to vote for has just been ejected for offensive behaviour. God has extreme vetting of apostles. I love that about the lds church. Our leaders are first rate!

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On 1/25/2018 at 10:27 AM, zil said:

In theory that should be useful, but in my experience, if you demonstrate that over half the Church is non-white, they'll accuse the leadership of oppressing the members; if the day came when half the leadership were non-white, they'd say it took too long (or even that it's not enough).  Etc. Etc.  I've long since given up on trying to convince anyone of anything via rational means (unless said person has already proven to be a rational thinker and the only problem is that they're lacking facts).  But if you want to give it a go, more power to ya! :)

You make a VERY valid point, which is why it is important that we remember Paul's admonition of, "Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God?  Or am I trying to please people?  If I were still trying to please people I would not be a servant of Christ." (Galatians 1:10 NIV).    To listen to the criticisms of the enemies of our faith is a waste of time and no matter what we do it will never be enough or soon enough.  We should be concerned about whether or not our actions are pleasing to God.  If we are doing that then it won't matter what the peanut gallery will say because most people will see Christ shining through us and respond accordingly.

Is our church perfect (or any denomination for that matter), no of course not.  But our church has done a very good job of making course corrections when necessary.  Course corrections that are, to the best of my understanding, in line with Biblical principals.

Your comment on educating people about what we actually believe and the principals of our faith is also very important.  I have a friend who was under the impression that we demand that our female members stay at home and that certain groups are denied the priesthood. Since she is fair minded, once I explained things, her opinion changed.

 

 

Edited by warnerfranklin
Added NIV to indicate which translation of the Bible I was quoting.
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