Would the love of Heavenly Father take away agency?


Awakened
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It is said (I think by Joseph Smith although please let me know if I'm wrong) that were we to feel even just a small little fraction of the love God has for us, we would all willingly commit suicide just to see him again.

If this is true, does that mean that whenever we are in the presence of our Heavenly Father or even within his love, none of us could ever resist obeying him?

But then, why did Satan go so far as to completely go against God?

Perhaps technically God's love doesn't take away our agency but it's so wonderful that most souls, not all but most, can't resist it and thus it's partly why our minds are veiled in this stage of our lives.

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8 hours ago, Awakened said:

It is said (I think by Joseph Smith although please let me know if I'm wrong) that were we to feel even just a small little fraction of the love God has for us, we would all willingly commit suicide just to see him again.

If this is true, does that mean that whenever we are in the presence of our Heavenly Father or even within his love, none of us could ever resist obeying him?

But then, why did Satan go so far as to completely go against God?

Perhaps technically God's love doesn't take away our agency but it's so wonderful that most souls, not all but most, can't resist it and thus it's partly why our minds are veiled in this stage of our lives.

I suggest you find out what Joseph Smith actually said that was misreported above. I don't think you will! 

Our obedience is not a function of His love for us, but of our love for Him. We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19), but if someone doesn't love Him, He first loved him anyway. Our love for Him is a function of our agency, which He modeled for us and which Satan resisted and countered in the War in Heaven.

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"Would the love of Heavenly Father take away agency?"
No.

"But then, why did Satan go so far as to completely go against God?"
Because obviously, being in the presence of our Heavenly Father, and even within his love, people were able to resist obeying Him.

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I've been thinking about this a long time here. And while I have been, I've also been looking high and low for the quote I mentioned in the OP, but alas I cannot find it at all.

Nevertheless, at the same time, I also feel like I have misunderstood my own question. I think that even if we were Heavenly Father's presence, we would still definitely have agency as we know and feel that we aren't actually deprived of his love then. But if we WEREN'T in his presence AND we remembered and felt just a hundredth part of a finite portion of God's love, how could we resist doing whatever we could to get back into his presence? Also think about the fact that God's love for us is literally infinite.

And then think about this. In D&C 19, there is this passage that we all know.

Quote

 

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

 

It talks about the pain Jesus Christ had to suffer when performing the Atonement. This revelation was directed at Martin Harris who, at the time, had committed a serious sin and was experiencing great distress just from that. And that was, as we see, the smallest portion of pain that is felt compared to the full reality that Christ took upon himself.

Now, we also know that there is an opposite in all things. Alma 36:21 clearly states, "Yea, I say unto you, my son, that there could be nothing so exquisite and so bitter as were my pains. Yea, and again I say unto you, my son, that on the other hand, there can be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was my joy." It makes very much sense that in contrast to such pain, there is an equal amount of such relief, happiness, love, and bliss. And this combined with knowing that God's love for us is truly infinite stands to reason that, again, were we to remember the love that we felt in a much greater amount than we usually do, we would do anything to get back to him, including taking our own lives.

It could also be that even in our premortal lives, the love of our Heavenly Parents that we felt was carefully limited in order to give us agency, and as we progress and continually choose the right, we can feel that love in greater and greater amounts. This would also explain how Satan and a third of the hosts of heaven could possibly have done what he did in the presence of his father and his god.

Edited by Awakened
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On 1/28/2018 at 4:53 AM, Awakened said:

It is said (I think by Joseph Smith although please let me know if I'm wrong) that were we to feel even just a small little fraction of the love God has for us, we would all willingly commit suicide just to see him again.

If this is true, does that mean that whenever we are in the presence of our Heavenly Father or even within his love, none of us could ever resist obeying him?

But then, why did Satan go so far as to completely go against God?

Perhaps technically God's love doesn't take away our agency but it's so wonderful that most souls, not all but most, can't resist it and thus it's partly why our minds are veiled in this stage of our lives.

I understand it to be similar to watching a questionable movie or listening to questionable music. Would you watch or listen to it with your grandma in the room? What about when she is 100 miles away and no chance of her there with you.

It really doesn’t matter what you do when your grandma is there, those actions are compromised due to, among other things, an image you grandma has of you that you want to uphold.

We aren’t here to show God that we can act good, but show that we can become old, that we are good. That “be” and “are” is compromised if we always feel such a powerful emotion in us. Or we feel we are being watched by the grader all the time.

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11 minutes ago, Fether said:

I understand it to be similar to watching a questionable movie or listening to questionable music. Would you watch or listen to it with your grandma in the room? What about when she is 100 miles away and no chance of her there with you.

It really doesn’t matter what you do when your grandma is there, those actions are compromised due to, among other things, an image you grandma has of you that you want to uphold.

We aren’t here to show God that we can act good, but show that we can become old, that we are good. That “be” and “are” is compromised if we always feel such a powerful emotion in us. Or we feel we are being watched by the grader all the time.

This is also correct but I think there's more to being in God's presence than just a simple avoidance of guilt.

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Good question.  I think God's love gives us agency but clearly the reason for us coming here was because being in his presence was a huge spiritual crutch that although needed it's hard to fully prove ourselves in his presence.  However, many who interacted with Christ rejected him here on earth as well  - that's hard to imagine but it happened. 

 

I also wonder how often we were in God's presence or how close to him were we during the pre-mortal life ?

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