Recommended Posts

On 2/17/2018 at 12:44 PM, person0 said:

Given she has not yet responded a single time beyond the initial post, I wonder if she is on the scale at all.

I am about a 7. I have just been reading the responses. I am very curious as I want to represent the religion respectfully in my film, and I do find it very interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/16/2018 at 8:33 PM, LiterateParakeet said:

When we trach new members or children to pray we use a simple format.  "Heavenly Father,

We thank thee.... (fill in what you're grateful for)  

We ask thee .... (fill in what you want to ask God for)  

In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen

 

It's the same morning, evening, meals etc.  As one grows in their relationship with God, it is reasonable to move away from the formula a bit.  Simply address Heavenly Father, talk to Him as you would any earthly parent or someone you respect. Close in Christ's name. 

When I say close in Christ's name, I mean you could use the phrase I shared above or say, "In Jesus' name. Amen."  Or "In the name of Thy Son, Jesus Christ. Amen"  

Hope that helps.  You should try it out yourself.  :)

Thankyou for this template. This will be incredibly helpful. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/17/2018 at 12:43 AM, zil said:

Welcome, @decafdarcy

The following may be information you already know / things you have already considered, but I have no idea what those things are, so here's some basic advice starting from zero...

If you're going to write about Mormons without being one, I strongly recommend you attend church meetings at least a few times.  Visitors are welcome.  Be open and honest about why you're there to avoid any misunderstanding.  They might think you're a member from another ward just visiting that Sunday, so seek someone out (if they don't seek you out) and ask for someone to sit with and help you learn.  You should ask if you can attend Primary one+ week (to see what your character would have experienced) and Young Women's (if your character is 12+, or to see what she's expecting in her future) another+ week (you can't attend both in the same week as they meet at the same time (the 3rd hour, anyway)).  As you sit in the meetings, you can observe the children and imagine how they experience 3 hours of church (yes, 3 hours).  To avoid standing out, wear a skirt/dress that comes at least to your knees, that has some sort of sleeve, and doesn't show cleavage (pictures of modern women on LDS.org might give you some ideas).

Primary children (under 12) and Young Women (12-18) also (may) attend Church activities during the week.  For a better story, you should ask if you can attend these too, since your character would.

Thankyou for this suggestion. Unfortunately I live in a very un-mormon area, and there are basically 0 churches any where near me, but If i do ever find one in my state I will look into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/17/2018 at 3:53 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

One tip that is included in @LiterateParakeet‘s post, but that she doesn’t explicitly point out, is that for a long time Mormons were counseled to use the archaic second-person (“thee”, “thou” and its appropriate verbal conjugations like “hast”, “art”, “lovest”, and so on) when addressing deity; in order to maintain a more reverential tone.  This tradition isn’t as strong as it used to be (as @Grunt‘s post shows); but as an author, if you’re trying to convincingly write a character who was born and raised Mormon, it’s something to consider.

I will keep this in mind, thankyou.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/17/2018 at 4:10 AM, Vort said:

It falls to me to play the old grump, since no one else has seen fit to take on the role.

To a Latter-day Saint, prayers are sacred. We rarely portray full prayers in dramatic or fictional works, and I would say never portray covenant ordinances in such a way. (Almost never -- I'm sure someone somewhere has done so.) I appreciate your striving for authenticity, but my sincere suggestion would be that you not attempt to portray such a sacred and private interaction.

I also wonder what the story will portray in a larger sense. Is this a story of a heroic young women escaping from the oppressive shackles of the rigid Mormon patriarchy? If so, few here will be interested in helping out your effort. Can you maybe give some context for what you want to do with this information?

The story does follow a girl leaving behind her religion but the story is more symbolic than literal, and it more portrays the abuse she experiences under the rule of her mother, which is seperate entirely from the religion. The whole thing is a metaphor for bees - the main character is a worker bee, loyal to her queen (her mother and her religion) until a new queen comes along, (a young girl called Zahri) who is younger and more powerful and challenges her allegiance. In the end she overthrows the current queen and follows the new one to a new colony. She does not abandon her faith, as she is quite devout and even after she leaves her mother she still follows the lifestyle she always did. It does deal with sexuality and her struggles to accept her feelings for her new queen as something more tham platonic, but it is not a disrespect of the religion, hence why I came on here, not wanting to inaccurately portray it. I will consider removing the prayer from the script if you think it is not a good idea to include it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, decafdarcy said:

The story does follow a girl leaving behind her religion but the story is more symbolic than literal, and it more portrays the abuse she experiences under the rule of her mother, which is seperate entirely from the religion. The whole thing is a metaphor for bees - the main character is a worker bee, loyal to her queen (her mother and her religion) until a new queen comes along, (a young girl called Zahri) who is younger and more powerful and challenges her allegiance. In the end she overthrows the current queen and follows the new one to a new colony. She does not abandon her faith, as she is quite devout and even after she leaves her mother she still follows the lifestyle she always did. It does deal with sexuality and her struggles to accept her feelings for her new queen as something more tham platonic, but it is not a disrespect of the religion, hence why I came on here, not wanting to inaccurately portray it. I will consider removing the prayer from the script if you think it is not a good idea to include it.

For the record: ANY person who mistreats another person is not correctly following the LDS faith.  Abuse is not something to be tolerated.   That's not to say it never happens (tragically it does), but we greatly strive to combat that any anything related to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, decafdarcy said:

Thankyou for this suggestion. Unfortunately I live in a very un-mormon area, and there are basically 0 churches any where near me, but If i do ever find one in my state I will look into it.

If you checked the meeting house locator tool, then I'll take your word for it.  If not, and you're in the US, I doubt they're that far away - seriously, there may be few of us, but we tend to be everywhere. :) If another country that uses "states", then I wouldn't know (except that if it's legal for us to be there, we tend to be there, though it could well be far away from you).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jane_Doe said:

For the record: ANY person who mistreats another person is not correctly following the LDS faith.  Abuse is not something to be tolerated.   That's not to say it never happens (tragically it does), but we greatly strive to combat that any anything related to it.

That was part of my intention, as the mother is not the enforcer of the LDS faith, her father is, and he is the respectful and supportive one. The mother is abusive in her own way, and it does not overlap with the Mormon values, as I didnt want it to be interpeted as I was generalizing the faith as abusive

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, zil said:

If you checked the meeting house locator tool, then I'll take your word for it.  If not, and you're in the US, I doubt they're that far away - seriously, there may be few of us, but we tend to be everywhere. :) If another country that uses "states", then I wouldn't know (except that if it's legal for us to be there, we tend to be there, though it could well be far away from you).

I live in Australia, so it is not a very faith heavy country to start with and has a very small population of LDS followers. There is one church in my city but it is too far away for me to visit, as I don't drive hahah.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, decafdarcy said:

That was part of my intention, as the mother is not the enforcer of the LDS faith, her father is, and he is the respectful and supportive one. The mother is abusive in her own way, and it does not overlap with the Mormon values, as I didnt want it to be interpeted as I was generalizing the faith as abusive

I'm a little confused here.  How do you see it possible for a person to be abusive and not overlap with faith (which is expressly anti-abuse)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, decafdarcy said:

I live in Australia, so it is not a very faith heavy country to start with and has a very small population of LDS followers. There is one church in my city but it is too far away for me to visit, as I don't drive hahah.

You're like the fourth Aussie we've had show up here in the past month!  It's like an invasion. ;)  Always glad to have another member from the upside down half of the world. :P  (Strictly teasing / joking there.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, decafdarcy said:

So like her abuse doesn't come from a place of religious extremism, and it highlights that she too is not loyal to the religion,.

But if she is abusing someone, she's in violation of her faith...

For example: say a lady is uncontrolled OCD cleanly, and that leads her to be abusive of her family in the form of yelling at them when she perceives things as being 'messy' (in her OCD mind) and she forbids them from doing normal life activities because they might get dirty (like going to school, playing with friends, etc).   Such a person would be in violation of the LDS faith (because they are abusive), despite the fact that the LDS faith is in no way responsible for the OCD. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

But if she is abusing someone, she's in violation of her faith...

For example: say a lady is uncontrolled OCD cleanly, and that leads her to be abusive of her family in the form of yelling at them when she perceives things as being 'messy' (in her OCD mind) and she forbids them from doing normal life activities because they might get dirty (like going to school, playing with friends, etc).   Such a person would be in violation of the LDS faith (because they are abusive), despite the fact that the LDS faith is in no way responsible for the OCD. 

That's the point, she IS in violation of her faith, which is why in the end Hannah leaves her and follows her new "queen". Hannah decides she would rather follow someone faithless, then a hypocrite who uses her faith to excuse her own abuisve behaviour. It highlights her hypocrisy.

Edited by decafdarcy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, decafdarcy said:

That's the point, she IS in violation of her faith, which is why in the end Hannah leaves her and follows her new "queen". It highlights her hypocrisy.

I'd also be worried about whether or not your person Hannah is a admirable characters herself, or just a follower without much sense of self.

(I really trying to to be critical here and apologize if it comes off that way.  I write stories myself, and really enjoy thinking characters through.  For me, it's characters which drive the story, I just write down what they do).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'd also be worried about whether or not your person Hannah is a admirable characters herself, or just a follower without much sense of self.

(I really trying to to be critical here and apologize if it comes off that way.  I write stories myself, and really enjoy thinking characters through.  For me, it's characters which drive the story, I just write down what they do).

You're right, she is definitely a follower, as she is young, and has never had her own life, but escaping with her new 'queen' will give her the opportunity to live as herself for once, which is like the 'selling' point for her. She's not necessarily admirable, but she's real. She has flaws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, decafdarcy said:

You're right, she is definitely a follower, as she is young, and has never had her own life, but escaping with her new 'queen' will give her the opportunity to live as herself for once, which is like the 'selling' point for her. She's not necessarily admirable, but she's real. She has flaws.

But do you think readers are going to cheer for a weak protagonists who at the beginning is codependent and lacks a sense of self, and at the end is still codependent and lacks a sense of self?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jane_Doe said:

But do you think readers are going to cheer for a weak protagonists who at the beginning is codependent and lacks a sense of self, and at the end is still codependent and lacks a sense of self?

Not necessarily, but I don't need them to. The stories I tend to write highlight the downfalls of humans and weaknesses more than their strengths. And she does grow stronger, as she stands up to her mother, and there is the subplot of her potentially accepting her sexuality identity, which is implied, but still present. I don't aim for applause with protagonists, but more for recognition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, decafdarcy said:

Hannah decides she would rather follow someone faithless, then a hypocrite who uses her faith to excuse her own abuisve behaviour.

Why does she not choose to follow her father since he is loving and supportive?

On another note, I am curious as to what initially moved you to choose the LDS faith for her family, as opposed to some other form of Christianity, or Islam, or Orthodox Judaism?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, person0 said:

Why does she not choose to follow her father since he is loving and supportive?

On another note, I am curious as to what initially moved you to choose the LDS faith for her family, as opposed to some other form of Christianity, or Islam, or Orthodox Judaism?

The father won't leave the mother, so if she follows him she still remains under her mothers control. The reason I chose LDS was originally because my sister knows a girl who experienced something similar, and ended up leaving the church, so thats where the inspiration came from. I decided to follow through with it when looking into the symbolism, especially about the Beehive, and how I could create a nice symbolic story around it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, decafdarcy said:

The father won't leave the mother, so if she follows him she still remains under her mothers control. 

So father is abusive too then (vicariously as he submits/permits to mom's abuse)? 

Ok, so he's also in violation of he LDS faith (which father's are supposed to be Christ-like leaders).

3 minutes ago, decafdarcy said:

 The reason I chose LDS was originally because my sister knows a girl who experienced something similar, and ended up leaving the church, so thats where the inspiration came from. I decided to follow through with it when looking into the symbolism, especially about the Beehive, and how I could create a nice symbolic story around it.

The LDS symbol of the beehive is one of industry and productivity (this includes your internal sense of self/development).  It's very opposite of what you're describing here (devoid of self and abuse).  It's really rubbing me the wrong way and seems like you're making an anti-faith stance.

 

If you want to tell a story of standing up to abuse and have that be the focus, I would just remove the spiritual aspects as to not distract the reader with that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jane_Doe said:

So father is abusive too then (vicariously as he submits/permits to mom's abuse)? 

Ok, so he's also in violation of he LDS faith (which father's are supposed to be Christ-like leaders).

The LDS symbol of the beehive is one of industry and productivity (this includes your internal sense of self/development).  It's very opposite of what you're describing here (devoid of self and abuse).  It's really rubbing me the wrong way and seems like you're making an anti-faith stance.

 

If you want to tell a story of standing up to abuse and have that be the focus, I would just remove the spiritual aspects as to not distract the reader with that. 

Thats true, and I am going tp add some more details about how he is sick and worn down, which is why the mother is taking on the leadership role in the house. He doesn't permit the abuse, and its not like the mother beats the girl or anything - its more subtle such as gaslighting and insults. Some of it goes over his head, he doesnt even notices.

And I've done a lot of research and the beehive does describe that, but the girl does develop, and is productive throughout the story. She does something about her situation, and stands up to her abuser. She isn't dragged into another situation but chooses to leave, to better herself. Zahri isn't another abuser, she's like a breath of fresh air. She see's Hannah is struggling and helps her. She's like a manic pixie dream girl.

The symbol of the beehive works because the whole thing is a metaphor for bees, and the Beehive was the first term young women were known by.

Personally, I am an atheist, so yes there probably is an underlying feeling of anti-faith which I am trying to avoid, but the story is less about the faith and more about the symbolism. I am neither promoting or discouraging faith with this story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share