Bringing the young back to the church


prisonchaplain
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Holiness, righteousness, and old-fashioned goodness will do far more to draw young people back to the church than modern marketing or post modern messaging. While the article below is directed initially to an Evangelical Christian audience, it appears to this outside observer that LDS are facing similar challenges.

How to Bring Today's Generation Back to the Church

          My church is theologically conservative—in the “Horton Hears a Who” sense. We believe the Bible says what it means and means what it says, and is 100% faithful. Unlike many other denominations, we continue to grow—quite rapidly. Except—in the United States—except with the younger generation.

                What to do? How do we win back the twenty and thirty-somethings? Some sought to tweak the church’s methods, calling for more savvy marketing, updated music, even fogger machines. Most such suggestions seemed harmless enough. Some were humorous, and too much was just silly. Yet, some of us reacted—wondering aloud if we were losing our focus, and even our purpose.

                Other innovators are going for the jugular. They say the church has missed it. We pray and study our Bibles, and insulate ourselves from the community. The community does not care what we know, because they do not know that we care. We must stop judging, condemning, labeling, and riding on our high horses. Instead, say they, Christians must get outside the church walls, engage the community, listen, learn, care, and then maybe, just maybe, there will be opportunities to share.

                My response? First, the accusations are false. Show me the church with members praying too much. Show the congregation that is too well versed in the Bible. Show me the church with altars filled and members consistently connecting with God. That church is relevant, without having to say so. That church would do well to have members spending more time inside the walls, not less. After all, who other than the pastors, spends more than three or four hours a week in church?

                Second, the church should judge society more, not less—though by example, rather than fiery rhetoric. Should God’s people live by standards of righteousness, holiness, and old-fashioned goodness, outsiders might gain some hope. Perhaps there really is a better way!

So, how can the church gain younger believers? Ironically, the best advertising we could do would be to live up to the standards we teach our young. As a boy, in Royal Rangers, I was taught to be  mentally, physically, and spiritually alert; to be clean in body, mind, and speech; to be honest and not lie, cheat, or steal; to be courageous by being brave in spite of danger, criticism, or threats; to be loyal by being faithful to church, family, outpost, and friends; to be courteous by being polite, kind, and thoughtful; to obey parents, leaders, and those in authority; and to be spiritual by praying, reading the Bible, and by witnessing.

So, let us win the young back to our churches—not through marketing, or through abandoning our core beliefs and practices for the post-modern relativism of society—but by doubling down on what we do right. Let’s pray, read our Bibles, and live with an out-loud goodness—the kind we learned as kids.

To see a video presentation of this topic see:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evOPKrrSNcE

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-bring-todays-generation-back-church-tommy-ellis/?published=t

Edited by prisonchaplain
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4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Holiness, righteousness, and old-fashioned goodness will do far more to draw young people back to the church than modern marketing or post modern messaging. While the article below is directed initially to an Evangelical Christian audience, it appears to this outside observer that LDS are facing similar challenges.

How to Bring Today's Generation Back to the Church

          My church is theologically conservative—in the “Horton Hears a Who” sense. We believe the Bible says what it means and means what it says, and is 100% faithful. Unlike many other denominations, we continue to grow—quite rapidly. Except—in the United States—except with the younger generation.

                What to do? How do we win back the twenty and thirty-somethings? Some sought to tweak the church’s methods, calling for more savvy marketing, updated music, even fogger machines. Most such suggestions seemed harmless enough. Some were humorous, and too much was just silly. Yet, some of us reacted—wondering aloud if we were losing our focus, and even our purpose.

                Other innovators are going for the jugular. They say the church has missed it. We pray and study our Bibles, and insulate ourselves from the community. The community does not care what we know, because they do not know that we care. We must stop judging, condemning, labeling, and riding on our high horses. Instead, say they, Christians must get outside the church walls, engage the community, listen, learn, care, and then maybe, just maybe, there will be opportunities to share.

                My response? First, the accusations are false. Show me the church with members praying too much. Show the congregation that is too well versed in the Bible. Show me the church with altars filled and members consistently connecting with God. That church is relevant, without having to say so. That church would do well to have members spending more time inside the walls, not less. After all, who other than the pastors, spends more than three or four hours a week in church?

                Second, the church should judge society more, not less—though by example, rather than fiery rhetoric. Should God’s people live by standards of righteousness, holiness, and old-fashioned goodness, outsiders might gain some hope. Perhaps there really is a better way!

So, how can the church gain younger believers? Ironically, the best advertising we could do would be to live up to the standards we teach our young. As a boy, in Royal Rangers, I was taught to be  mentally, physically, and spiritually alert; to be clean in body, mind, and speech; to be honest and not lie, cheat, or steal; to be courageous by being brave in spite of danger, criticism, or threats; to be loyal by being faithful to church, family, outpost, and friends; to be courteous by being polite, kind, and thoughtful; to obey parents, leaders, and those in authority; and to be spiritual by praying, reading the Bible, and by witnessing.

So, let us win the young back to our churches—not through marketing, or through abandoning our core beliefs and practices for the post-modern relativism of society—but by doubling down on what we do right. Let’s pray, read our Bibles, and live with an out-loud goodness—the kind we learned as kids.

To see a video presentation of this topic see:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evOPKrrSNcE

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-bring-todays-generation-back-church-tommy-ellis/?published=t

One thing I have noticed is that our (us 20-30 year olds) grand parents seem very comfortable believing in God but not knowing a ton about him. They live commandments, but when asked why or when faced with questions, they don’t have a lot of insights or answers. This of course has MANY exceptions, but most of the old people I know believe in God and live off of a “we don’t need to know why” or “it isn’t essential to your salvation” ideology when it comes to hard questions. The people that raised us were raised on that ideology as well.

In today’s world we have answers to just about everything. All of it is backed by scientific proof. Every question has an answer or an exciting theory. Now take a look at a 15 year old Sunday school class. 

Teacher: “2 of every animal was put on Noah’s Ark”

Student: “What did the Lions eat while they were on the ark?”

Teacher: “That doesn’t really matter, it’s not essential to your salvation”

The same student in math the other day asked why a polynomial with a negative lead coefficient always opens down and got a quick answer that made sense, he also learned why and how we see light in science and every question he had came an answer. And even if he didn’t want to ask it, for the past 10 years every question he has asked had a logical answer so he knows if he has a question, there is an answer.

But this isn’t so at church. Every question that seems logical to him is shot down in class as being “not important” or “we just aren’t meant to know”.

I remember asking a challenging and contradictory question in seminary and being met with a harsh “We are just suppose to have faith”. 3 years later, after having the same question in the back of my mind, was answered quite simply in a mission conference by someone who wasn’t afraid to embrace hard questions. (And my question wasn’t anything crazy deep or filled with mystery, it was answered by a bit doctrine of premortsl life that I hadn’t understood)

My wife, a few months ago, had an absolutely rediculouse question that I felt was completely off the wall. Multiple times she would ask it and be met with “it doesn’t matter” answers. One day someone said one sentence to her that explained the whole thing and she and I learned a ton.

So that, I’m my opinion, is a major part of the issue. We grow up in a secular world that can easily explain everything, and we grow up in a church full of teachers that don’t care about explaining much or even giving thought to validate questions... Who are we going to follow?

Just the other day a person in my Sunday school class asked a hard and contradictory question and an old man in the back shouted “It’s not essential to our salvation”. 

those that say “we just aren’t meant to know” will never knows those that dig for the truth will find it. I’m convinced there is very little God is going to hide from us. He knows all and wants us to know truth.

“Our inability to “know it all,” however, does not absolve the need (nor should diminish our desire) to know what is “knowable.” Perhaps by so exhausting the knowable, we push and probe and occasionally even penetrate the infinite”
Tad R. Callister “The Infinite Atonement”

 

so in summary. Shooting down our questions is a great way to keep us from coming to with them. We will go elsewhere and find “archeological proof” that the scriptures are false.

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@Fether Your insight is most interesting, because the dilemma is one that has been huge in the Gen-X age group. The whole Intelligent Design movement (a much broader and more sophisticated improvement on the old Creation Science effort, in my view), the Evidence that Demands a Verdict (related to Christ's resurrection), and similar apologetic efforts--these were huge in the 1980s-90s, and perhaps into the early 2000s. One of the Christian thinkers, Josh McDowell, I believe, said that he used to love debating on college campuses, when the call was for proof--logical, scientific proof. As the 2000s turned to the 20-teens, something changed. Young people, he said, stopped believing science and academe held any ultimate answers. In fact, the came to believe there were no ultimate answers. So, instead of laying out evidence and arguments, he would address his younger audiences by saying, "Today, I'm going to talk to you as a dad...." He reports that at the end of his presentations so many come to him in tears. They have not known what a real dad was, but felt something authentic and relational from him.

So...I do not disagree with you. Many still struggle with the balance between a faith that should withstand some rigorous questioning.  Hey, it's faith, not superstition. On the other hand, others wonder if there is such a thing as objective truth. The seek authenticity and relationship.

We can discuss generational distinctives until we are blue in the face, but you do well to remind us that each person we address--all immortal--all worthy of respected, because are created in the image of God--that each is an individual, needing what they need--perhaps some intellectual discussion, perhaps a listening ear, perhaps a sincere relationships that first garners trust, then spiritual exploration.

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13 hours ago, Fether said:

One thing I have noticed is that our (us 20-30 year olds) grand parents seem very comfortable believing in God but not knowing a ton about him. They live commandments, but when asked why or when faced with questions, they don’t have a lot of insights or answers. This of course has MANY exceptions, but most of the old people I know believe in God and live off of a “we don’t need to know why” or “it isn’t essential to your salvation” ideology when it comes to hard questions. The people that raised us were raised on that ideology as well.

In today’s world we have answers to just about everything. All of it is backed by scientific proof. Every question has an answer or an exciting theory. Now take a look at a 15 year old Sunday school class. 

Teacher: “2 of every animal was put on Noah’s Ark”

Student: “What did the Lions eat while they were on the ark?”

Teacher: “That doesn’t really matter, it’s not essential to your salvation”

...

so in summary. Shooting down our questions is a great way to keep us from coming to with them. We will go elsewhere and find “archeological proof” that the scriptures are false.

Fether, first, please note that I'm not one to object to asking questions, of whatever sort, nor of getting answers to them.  But please tell me the 20-30 somethings out there understand:

1) That what the lions on the ark ate really is utterly irrelevant to one's salvation (both what the answer is, and one knowing the answer - both are irrelevant).  (This is not a reason to avoid the question or its answer, just an important fact about their priority / importance.)

2) That the answer is found in scripture (and also just by spending a moment thinking about it).

3) That whatever the answer is, it's not the point of a Church class.  If we spent Church class time answering this kind of question, we'd never get to the infinitely weightier matter of how to actually be a disciple of Christ.

In other words, if one understands priority and purpose, then these questions are great.  If one doesn't, and these questions are focused on to the exclusion of the significant, it would be tragic (in my view).  Maybe I'm saying that parents and teachers in the Church need to teach their children how to prioritize and divide their time and efforts as it relates to gospel questions - again, not to avoid the irrelevant question of what lions ate on the ark, but to put it in its proper context so that it is only allocated a reasonable about of time, effort, and importance (and isn't used as an excuse to say Christ's gospel is the thing that's irrelevant because we don't like the answer to what lions ate on the ark).

(Not sure if I'm communicating well up there, but still...)

Regarding #2 - I would see this as an excellent opportunity to teach meaningful scripture study.  The knee-jerk reaction of any child to being told that the answer is in the scriptures would be to turn to the story of the ark and look for a direct reference to feeding lions.  As we know (I hope we all know), there is no such reference.  So how then can I say that the answer is found in the scriptures?  Simple - it's not found in the ark story.  Nor is it found in someone else in scripture talking about the ark.  Rather, it is found in the pattern of what the Lord does in "exodus" scenarios.  (Huh, just realized it's even found in the pioneer stories of the exodus to the Salt Lake valley.)  The story of Jared and his brother, et alia, leaving the tower of Babel area; the story of Lehi and his family leaving Jerusalem; the story of the children of Israel leaving Egypt; and the story of the Mormon pioneers all explain how the Lord feeds his people when they have to migrate.  And there are two primary ways - manna from heaven / water from rocks, or telling them to prepare and take supplies with them.

The second of those ways is the obvious, "duh" answer that anyone who's ever packed for a road trip ought to have come up with in short order.  Noah really didn't need the Lord to tell him to pack food for himself and all these critters - I'm sure it was a no brainer for him.  Just because we don't have anything in the story about how Noah (more likely his wife) stocked the pantry doesn't mean they were too dumb to think ahead - it just means that the fact is utterly irrelevant to what we're trying to teach.

Which is the next thing a wise parent should teach the child who asks what the lions ate on the ark (because the child won't likely be willing to learn the important answer until his curiosity is satisfied) - namely, how to get past the story and find the lesson.

So, while the answer and knowing the answer to the actual question of what lions ate on the ark are utterly irrelevant, a wise parent / teacher could turn the question into:

1) A lesson about priority and importance, as well as the purpose of Church class time vs home or personal study.

2) A lesson about the fact that there are patterns in scripture and we should look for them and use them to understand how the Lord works and instructs and cares for his people.

3) That rational thinking is a good thing and is often the answer, even for stuff that happened in the Old Testament.

4) The difference between story and lesson.

5) How to have fun with apocryphal sources (though this might oughta wait until the kid is in his 20s):  In some apocryphal work, it is said that the garment of skins made for Adam gave Adam the ability to communicate with (or command) the beasts.  We also know that Noah had this garment.  You'll note that in the ark story, all the animals come to Noah - he doesn't have to go out and trap them.  You'll also note no mention of the difficulties of keeping predator animals away from prey animals, or of animal bad behavior at all.  This could be explained by the fact that it's irrelevant to the lesson and therefore not included.  But it could also be explained by the fact that Noah had Adam's garment, and therefore the ability to communicate with or command the beasts.  (It could also be explained by the Lord commanding the beasts.)  Anywho, in the book of Jasher, Ham is cursed for stealing this garment from Noah (not for seeing Noah naked or whatever).  Further, this garment explains how Nimrod came to be a mighty hunter - by abusing the power this garment gave him.  And finally, it explains the story of Esau selling his birthright for a mess of pottage - Esau had stolen the garment from Nimrod, he was tired because he'd been fleeing from Nimrod's men, and he was begging Jacob to hide him from Nimrod's men.  Not sure, but I think Jacob may have taken the garment at this point.  (Anywho, the book of Jasher has some fun twists on OT stories.)

Please forgive me for writing a @JohnsonJones-length post.  I think I'll stop now.

Edited by zil
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Guest MormonGator

If we want to know why young people aren't going to church, maybe we should ask them instead of theorizing. Not trying to be rude-but if a business loses customers they'll sometimes ask the ones who left why they did. Perhaps the same thing would help?

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Today's Generation left the Church because the previous generation failed them.  That's all there is.

I have cousins whose kids are very disrespectful towards religiosity and there is one common factor among all of them - modern parenting, the I want to be your best friend kind of parenting instead of the I'm your mother and you will respect me kind of parenting we learned from our own parents.

So, how do you get those kids back into Church?  Don't coddle them.  Tell them straight up - through words and deeds and example - why Christian Living is superior.  My dad's branch of the family remained religious... well, except for me - they think I'm a heretic, of course.  I'm considered the blight of that branch.  All of my sibling's children also remained religious because we all applied the same principles that my dad taught to us kids.   My dad's older brother (he's in his late 70's now) was very lose with his own kids, they fear and respect my dad but they don't fear or respect their own parents when they were younger.  His grandchildren range from social Catholics to flat out atheists.  Interestingly, all his grandchildren also fear and respect my dad.  My dad has no problem telling them straight out that they need to straighten out their lives and go to church.

Respect is earned.  A Church cannot earn respect if they easily bend to the whims of time instead of standing up for its principles.  A Church cannot earn respect if you see their leaders saying and doing terrible things in the name of Christ - like standing with big posters at military funerals stating the wrath of God killed your soldier...

 

Edited by anatess2
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@zil 

It is not so much about getting an answer as it is seeing that our question is validated. I used the Noah question only as an example. More common questions deal with archeological evidence, women and the priesthood, polygamy, why don’t we have the golden plates, where do the Book of Mormon take place, etc.

I do agree that these don’t necessarily matter, but when I asked these questions as a 15 year old and someone said “just have faith”, “we aren’t meant to know” or “it isn’t essential to our salvation”, I would tell myself “Not essential to my salvation??? If there isn’t archeological evidence to back any of this than is the book even true???” Or some variation of that. 

I just grew up thinking about “what will science discover next?” Or “What great book will be written next?”

The world taught me its ok to not know everything, but that shouldn’t keep you from searching. 

In church I was given boundaries. What matters and what doesn’t. I grew up thinking that the only good answer or question is one that fits the lesson. And those boundaries were normally set by the teachers knowledge.

It wasn’t till I had a teacher in seminary that was passionate about all sorts of questions and validated, provided answers for, and showed that there are no boundaries to your questions even if the teacher doesn’t know.

Both my siblings express frustration because they would ask honest and contradictory questions in Sunday school, young women’s/men’s or relief society and be met with “it doesn’t matter” or “just have faith” answers. Both left the church (though there are other factors that lead to them leaving too). My wife has a brother that is experiencing the same frustration.

 

@prisonchaplain

We definitely want answers haha. Many of us do believe that answer can be relative to the person (I dont subscribe to that thinking :P ). In religion, the scriptures just don’t make sense. I was blessed with the ability to be blindly obedient for a long time, the seminary teacher I mentioned above broke me out of that and relieved a lot of stress I had and all of a sudden church became exciting. I learned that the lessons learned in class were not bound by the teachers intentions, I learned how to search out my questions and I found the real boundaries of “it doesn’t matter” or “just have faith” and realized that even though they were there, it was ok to search beyond that. I’m doing so I would learn profound lessons about God, even if I never answered the question I originally sought. 

Now I want to be clear on that I don’t teach or even believe the ideas I come up with to rationalize my hard questions that I can’t find CLEAR prophetic backing for.

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A perfect example of this is in my life is the idea of becoming like God. I had heard it in passing often but never a clear answer, people would always say “We will know in the after life and it will all make sense”. It wasn’t till I was on my mission that I found Tad R Callisters talk “Identity and destiny” and also discovered other quotes from prophets in the “Teachings of the Presidents” books that answered all my questions. And up till that point everyone had been telling me “We can’t know”. My mission companion even told me this and would make fun of me if I ever brought it up. I was 6 months into my mission before I understood what it meant when it says we could become Gods. And I’m not referring to “We get to make planets”, I’m referring to the concept in general. Eternal families, live as God does, etc.

my companion was blown away by this when I shared it with him and he apologized.

About a year later I found it in the gospel principles book too :P

Edited by Fether
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11 minutes ago, Fether said:

If there isn’t archeological evidence to back any of this than is the book even true?

I personally worry about this kind of "rely on the arm of flesh" thinking.  Until / unless one can learn that this kind of thinking shows a lack of understanding spiritual things, and that the "evidence" is spiritual and experiential, not archaeological or historic, one will be subject to the world rather than the Spirit.  Note that I don't think this question should be avoided, but I worry about refusing to accept spiritual and experiential evidence over "hard" or "physical" evidence.  I personally believe hard or physical evidence would make it more difficult for people to learn the more important points - feeling and following the Spirit rather than a logical conclusion derived in one's own mind based on said hard/physical evidence.

19 minutes ago, Fether said:

In religion, the scriptures just don’t make sense.

I completely disagree.  And I hope that one day, you will too.  IMO, after sufficient study, there comes a point where it all makes perfect sense, the logic is clear, and it is the only thing which fits perfectly in reality.

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6 minutes ago, zil said:

 I completely disagree.  And I hope that one day, you will too.  IMO, after sufficient study, there comes a point where it all makes perfect sense, the logic is clear, and it is the only thing which fits perfectly in reality.

Oh they make sense now :) but when we are young they don’t. Walking on water, splitting the sea, angels, floods that cover the world, etc. They don’t make much sense when compared to what we know.

And again, it’s not so much about finding “proof” as it is being taught that there is no proof or that there is no answer. The original post was about what can be done to keep youth involved. Teach them that there are answers to questions and seeking them is not bad to search them. When they ask something you don’t know the answer to, don’t say “WE don’t know” (gives the illusion that the church as a whole doesn’t know), say “I don’t know” and teach them how to study and to seek the truth. Not just take it as it is handed in a platter. 

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17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

How to Bring Today's Generation Back to the Church

 

Good article overall, I'll have to comment more on it in a minute.  Though I particularly like this part: 

17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

After all, who other than the pastors, spends more than three or four hours a week in church?

He he :)

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1 hour ago, zil said:

You sure you got the right thread? :)

Yes. Churches have adopted dancing (I'm not talking about what passes for dancing nowadays - I'm talking about ANY dancing) to attract youth and now they've all gone to pot! My generation didn't need gyrations or palpitations or me-mes or myFace or all this hoobajoob. We showed up on Sunday in our Sunday best - all 11 layers - and sat in the stale air. Sure it was hot, but it's hotter in hell. You've all gotten squishy.

Now get off the church lawn!!!!     We're rebuilding the cemetery.

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

Austin Farrer put it best 

“What no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish.”

So true. @Fether, this is a perfect point. 100%. Especially with Generation X (me!) and Millennials (not me). Younger people have been spoiled with so much information from all sources and we expect that from our religions too. I also think that young people have a hard time with anything that seems inauthentic. They are quick to jump on what they think is hypocritical behavior. (Note-I'm not saying churches engage in this behavior, but many young people think they do. It's not what I believe, it's what I'm seeing). 

Younger people also have a harder time trusting authority. These generations are not likely to just "shut up and obey." Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's just what some young people think. 

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10 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

So, instead of laying out evidence and arguments, he would address his younger audiences by saying, "Today, I'm going to talk to you as a dad...." He reports that at the end of his presentations so many come to him in tears. They have not known what a real dad was, but felt something authentic and relational from him.

This is the direction I would propose (and my advice is worth every penny you paid for). Looks like Anatess already beat me to it.

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

My dad's branch of the family remained religious... well, except for me - they think I'm a heretic, of course.  I'm considered the blight of that branch.  All of my sibling's children also remained religious because we all applied the same principles that my dad taught to us kids.   My dad's older brother (he's in his late 70's now) was very lose with his own kids, they fear and respect my dad but they don't fear or respect their own parents when they were younger.  His grandchildren range from social Catholics to flat out atheists.  Interestingly, all his grandchildren also fear and respect my dad.  My dad has no problem telling them straight out that they need to straighten out their lives and go to church.

Statistically speaking, children follow the religiosity of the father. For a generation where half the children are born to a mother not married to the father, a father figure is desperately needed (religion aside). Promise Keepers needs a revival - and it needs to go farther than it did before. The old version got men riled up and excited but failed to convert that excitement into a structural outlet. This is the structure that they can fill. The church needs to be the patriarchy this generation needs and hates.

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17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Holiness, righteousness, and old-fashioned goodness will do far more to draw young people back to the church than modern marketing or post modern messaging. While the article below is directed initially to an Evangelical Christian audience, it appears to this outside observer that LDS are facing similar challenges.

How to Bring Today's Generation Back to the Church

          My church is theologically conservative—in the “Horton Hears a Who” sense. We believe the Bible says what it means and means what it says, and is 100% faithful. Unlike many other denominations, we continue to grow—quite rapidly. Except—in the United States—except with the younger generation.

                What to do? How do we win back the twenty and thirty-somethings? Some sought to tweak the church’s methods, calling for more savvy marketing, updated music, even fogger machines. Most such suggestions seemed harmless enough. Some were humorous, and too much was just silly. Yet, some of us reacted—wondering aloud if we were losing our focus, and even our purpose.

                Other innovators are going for the jugular. They say the church has missed it. We pray and study our Bibles, and insulate ourselves from the community. The community does not care what we know, because they do not know that we care. We must stop judging, condemning, labeling, and riding on our high horses. Instead, say they, Christians must get outside the church walls, engage the community, listen, learn, care, and then maybe, just maybe, there will be opportunities to share.

                My response? First, the accusations are false. Show me the church with members praying too much. Show the congregation that is too well versed in the Bible. Show me the church with altars filled and members consistently connecting with God. That church is relevant, without having to say so. That church would do well to have members spending more time inside the walls, not less. After all, who other than the pastors, spends more than three or four hours a week in church?

                Second, the church should judge society more, not less—though by example, rather than fiery rhetoric. Should God’s people live by standards of righteousness, holiness, and old-fashioned goodness, outsiders might gain some hope. Perhaps there really is a better way!

So, how can the church gain younger believers? Ironically, the best advertising we could do would be to live up to the standards we teach our young. As a boy, in Royal Rangers, I was taught to be  mentally, physically, and spiritually alert; to be clean in body, mind, and speech; to be honest and not lie, cheat, or steal; to be courageous by being brave in spite of danger, criticism, or threats; to be loyal by being faithful to church, family, outpost, and friends; to be courteous by being polite, kind, and thoughtful; to obey parents, leaders, and those in authority; and to be spiritual by praying, reading the Bible, and by witnessing.

So, let us win the young back to our churches—not through marketing, or through abandoning our core beliefs and practices for the post-modern relativism of society—but by doubling down on what we do right. Let’s pray, read our Bibles, and live with an out-loud goodness—the kind we learned as kids.

To see a video presentation of this topic see:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evOPKrrSNcE

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-bring-todays-generation-back-church-tommy-ellis/?published=t

My opinion is that such a decline is very much the negative effects of no-lordship salvation.

(In case you were wondering, Lordship Salvation in Protestant circles means those who believe, to have saving faith, you have to be willing to commit your entire life to Christ, even if in practice you still sin sometimes.  No-lordship salvation means you don't have to make Jesus Lord to be saved - while you do have to have a born-again experience, whether you make Jesus the lord of your life after is irrelevant).  Many evangelicals I know would say the No-Lordship people have not actually been saved and, if they had actually been saved, they would live their lives with a different outlook because they would be fundamentally changed by Christ.

Regardless of how you feel about Lordship vs. No-Lordship salvation (and I do not intend to jump in here), I feel that No-Lordship Salvation has had a profound impact on religion in America.  I mean, what's the point of Church, if you don't have to make Jesus the Lord of your life to have saving faith?  Why bother going to Church?  Why bother keeping the commandments?  Why bother ever thinking of Christ again?

I think No-Lordship salvation has had a profound impact on the way younger Americans view religion and has had a lot to do with the proliferation of No-Lordship Salvation.  It has caused the rise of casual Christianity and the ideas appear to have infiltrated places where they really should not be (e.g., Wesleyan Protestantism, Catholicism, Islam, and yes, even Mormonism in some circles).

Edited by DoctorLemon
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17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Holiness, righteousness, and old-fashioned goodness will do far more to draw young people back to the church than modern marketing or post modern messaging. While the article below is directed initially to an Evangelical Christian audience, it appears to this outside observer that LDS are facing similar challenges.

How to Bring Today's Generation Back to the Church

...

                My response? First, the accusations are false. Show me the church with members praying too much. Show the congregation that is too well versed in the Bible. Show me the church with altars filled and members consistently connecting with God. That church is relevant, without having to say so. That church would do well to have members spending more time inside the walls, not less. After all, who other than the pastors, spends more than three or four hours a week in church?

 ....

 

I find this thread most interesting.  Especially in the fact that we are talking about the 20 and 30 somethings.  What I find so ironic is that for the most part, when Jesus gathered crowds – he and his apostles were mostly of the 20 to 30 something variety – I assume his followers were also in that category.   It also seems to me that most of what Jesus taught had to do more with “things” outside the churches (synagogues) than what was going on inside – think the parable of the Good Samaritan and what Jesus taught about the good church going priest and Levite. 

I also think it slightly ironic that the Pharisees were very focused on what went on inside their churches – reading scriptures and praying and such.  I think they were an example of a church too versed in scriptures and too many prayers that were not that important and not well versed in the actual destiny and purpose of man.  It may sound strange but I do not think the destiny of man is to be well versed in scripture or to spend lots of time praying in churches.

I think a possible reason some churches are losing their younger generations is because the younger generations do not fee relevant – that they have nothing to do with that they feel is needed.  I think anyone wants to feel that they are a part of what is going on and is really good and important – they want to be vested in doing something wonderful.  Not just told what a good Christian is but given examples and opportunity to be good Christians.  I happen to think a great deal of what good Christians do takes place mostly outside the churches and on the 6 days other than Sunday.

 

The Traveler

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Guest MormonGator
4 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I think a possible reason some churches are losing their younger generations is because the younger generations do not fee relevant – that they have nothing to do with that they feel is needed. 

Great point. Dead on accurate. 

 

7 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

 

Regardless of how you feel about Lordship vs. No-Lordship salvation (and I do not intend to jump in here), I feel that No-Lordship Salvation has had a profound impact on religion in America.  I mean, what's the point of Church, if you don't have to make Jesus the Lord of your life to have saving faith?  Why bother going to Church?  Why bother keeping the commandments?  Why bother ever thinking of Christ again?

 

Yup. Exactly.

It's a major problem that all churches are facing. To me, it's like declining birth rates in Europe. You (generic!) can pretend not to see them, pretend the problem doesn't exist, but it's out there and I'm glad that churches of all types are finally addressing it. Hope it's not too late.  

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Guest MormonGator

i think another problem is one that a church can't fix. When a culture and society becomes more "secure" and has fewer and fewer problems, people don't feel the need to turn to religion. The more comfortable we are, the less a society generally needs religion.When you are happy, well fed, you have a nice job, stuff to do-your kids are happy and content, everything is fine-religion becomes less and less important to a culture. 

 

Barring a major social collapse, this is another grave issue.

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17 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

i think another problem is one that a church can't fix. When a culture and society becomes more "secure" and has fewer and fewer problems, people don't feel the need to turn to religion. The more comfortable we are, the less a society generally needs religion.When you are happy, well fed, you have a nice job, stuff to do-your kids are happy and content, everything is fine-religion becomes less and less important to a culture. 

Barring a major social collapse, this is another grave issue.

We don't need to fix it. This is a self-correcting problem.

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Guest MormonGator
25 minutes ago, Vort said:

We don't need to fix it. This is a self-correcting problem.

To some degree. Come another 9/11 or, God forbid, a nuclear war more people will certainly seek spiritual comfort. Or, if it's really bad, God will drop the curtain, Armageddon will occur and then the problem will obviously become irrelevant. 

To another degree, the problem is incredibly serious. If there aren't enough people to sustain a church (and this goes for all churches) it will shut down or drastically cut back. IE-If numbers go from 30 million to 10 million to 5 million  (yes, this won't happen for 100 years and it might not happen at all) then you'll see changes. Not in our lives, but in the lives of our great grandchildren, great great grandchildren, etc. 

I'm talking about all churches, not the LDS church in particular. 

Again, just so that there is no confusion: I'm not happy that churches are shrinking. In fact, I'm very worried about it. I seriously hope I'm way off and the numbers are either fuzzy, or misleading, or flat out wrong. I am just as worried about secularization as everyone else here. 

Edited by MormonGator
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5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

God forbid

Quote

D&C 43:25 How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes, and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, and by the great sound of a trump, and by the voice of judgment, and by the voice of mercy all the day long, and by the voice of glory and honor and the riches of eternal life, and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not!

Quote

Helaman 12:3 And thus we see that except the Lord doth chasten his people with many afflictions, yea, except he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence, they will not remember him.

Quote

D&C 105:6 And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffer.

No doubt there are more, but you get the idea - pretty sure God will be the instigator, when the time comes.

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

i think another problem is one that a church can't fix. When a culture and society becomes more "secure" and has fewer and fewer problems, people don't feel the need to turn to religion. The more comfortable we are, the less a society generally needs religion.When you are happy, well fed, you have a nice job, stuff to do-your kids are happy and content, everything is fine-religion becomes less and less important to a culture. 

 

Barring a major social collapse, this is another grave issue.

Honest question.

What is religion?  Is Mormonism religion and everything else is not religion?  Does it extend to Christianity, non-new-age Bhuddism, Islam, everything but satanism?

Is religion visiting someone at your local nursing home who wants to be visited, or does it extend to home visiting teaching where you see someone who doesn't want to be seen at a time they would rather not be seen?  Or reverse it so home teaching is quality and the nursing home visit is low quality, if you like.

i mean, to many of the Christians of 150 years ago, American Indians were heathens - and yet by today's standards, most consider them to have been religious in an almost Christian way.

Not picking fights here - just think this is standard that's assumed by many and shared by few - especially among older and younger populations.  

Edit: And this is a criticism of no one - especially not @MormonGator.  i am asking a question that i have no answer to - only a (worthless to anyone other than myself) opinion to.

Edited by lostinwater
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5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

If we want to know why young people aren't going to church, maybe we should ask them instead of theorizing. Not trying to be rude-but if a business loses customers they'll sometimes ask the ones who left why they did. Perhaps the same thing would help?

Fair enough, and of course. The current generation is always being asked why they are doing a variety of things, including leaving church. And, to be more direct, it's not the leaving that's unusual. There has always been a period, roughly 18-25, when young people head off for higher learning, and must make their faith along (... or not). Most return when they have children, realizing that the eternal things really do matter. It's only been in the last 20 years or so that young families are not returning to the church in the same numbers. They've been polled, queried, interviewed, and asked 1:1. Books have been written, reports given, and, at this stage, it's like the joke about statistics:  figures lie and liars figure. In other words, we that argue for a return to righteous living and the pillars of church living that have been mainstay for millennia can certainly round up plenty of youth who will say, "It's about time!" Those that argue for liberalizing church standards, becoming more 'relevant,' etc. will have their cadre of supporters among the young, etc.

I don't argue against the conversation, but might I suggest that part of the problem is that this generation that we are so eager to see return has been made to feel important--self-important. They've been told that we elders don't know what we're doing, and have failed them. We're behind, irrelevant, racist/sexist/homophobic, and too many of us voted for Trump. So, come back to the church and save us. Some of the 20-30-something writings on this subject reek with such incredible arrogance. One almost-40-year-old pastor literally called for his elders to admit their irrelevance and ineffectiveness, and step down from leadership--and get real jobs. That's not wisdom, that's an ungodly disrespect--but sadly one he's been taught to embrace as authenticity.

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