High Priests 1st Sunday topics

[JohnsonJones]

28 minutes ago, Vort said:

No, I did not. I said he was older than me. In fact, he was in his early 50s -- hardly "elderly".

Critical reading skills, JJ. They're worth working on.

I implied no such thing. That was your inference -- and a wrong one at that. Critical reading skills, JJ.

My point was clear to anyone who wasn't grinding an axe: Had your "mandatory ordination" idea been put into effect, everyone who knew this brother's age and Priesthood office would immediately assume that he was not "worthy", because under your proposal, that would have been the only explanation. As it was, he was simply a 50-something-year-old elder attending the high priest group, hardly an unusual thing. Your proposed solution would cause exactly the problem you claim to want to avoid.

I understand you said that.  HOWEVER...by your example you condemned EVERY RIGHTEOUS MAN who was an older Elder whether you intended to or not.  You stated, flat out, that the reason he did not become a HP was because he was sinning in your eyes.  Thus, you implied right there that ANY MAN who was not a HP and was older was a sinner.

IT is THIS attitude that is detrimental.  This is also why I say, it occurs constantly in the church, people do it and do not even realize what they are doing.  People, just like you did, ASSUME the worst.  In this, any Older Elder is treated to a grave injustice by MANY people.

You want to justify the sinner by giving out injustice to the righteous.  My desire is to justify the righteous so that the sinners cannot use their pride to toss unjust blame.

Mandatory ordination with quorums based on age, rather than being an Elder or HP would go FAR to change this attitude.  I'm afraid though, with how imbedded this attitude is in the church, that it still might not be enough to stop the bragging and inferences (just like you did in your example).

I was judged, condemned and crucified NOT for any sin I did, but because of my age.  I experienced this personally, and have found many others who have gone through this.

My words to them...YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN THIS.  There are MANY who are righteous who suffer the same unjust and unrighteous judgement in the church.  The LORD loves you.

I was blessed in that all these rumors have been put to rest in my old age, but I also know there are many out there that are NEVER justified.

I would that the church would seek a system to justify the righteous in the face of their accusers, rather than making the HPG a place where it is seen that discrimination, nepotism and favoritism for the "in-crowd" vs. those who are not in this crowd remain on the outside.  It is a huge discouragement to many.  I was fortunate in that I remained faithful and did not let such accusations and thoughts drive me from the church, but I also know that there are some that are not so fortunate.

However, my personal opinion is that if the LORD is just, many of those will have far higher rewards in the hereafter than I or many others, because if they were given the same opportunities we had, they would have been far more faithful and strong than we could even have imagined ourselves to be.

The question then, is not whether these people are righteous despite our unjust condemnations, but rather how we can bring this justice to live in our church today, as we are supposed to be the Church of Jesus Christ...not the church of those who are popular among men vs. those who are not.

I can say, that I KNOW many of those out there who are like me, who were or are Older elders in their Elder's quorum are very righteous and loved by the LORD.  He loves you JUST as much (and perhaps more in some cases...who knows) as any young whippersnapper who is called to be a HP in their young age.  In the LORD you will be justified if you remain faithful and true to his church and his gospel.

 

Edit: I just want to say, I am NOT trying to say anything BAD about you personally, but you gave an example that is easy to use.  I think you ARE a great guy Vort, and probably someone that shares a great many of the same views I do.  I think in some ways we may be closer in thought than you think in this matter, but the way we view the way to resolve it is different.  Both ways we discuss are done in the church.  I am more in favor of the old way where stakes took the option at times to set a mandatory age and utilized it, as well as what some wards do in that they combine the HP and Elders.  You favor the other way which many do it.  That said, don't read what I wrote wrong.  It may sound a bit strong in my wording so I want to guarantee you that I do not actually have something against you and think you are a good person, and that any implications that this is not so, is an unfortunate weakness of my writing and a fault on me rather than you.

Edited February 27, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[Vort]

27 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Thus, the true reason you were told to go to the HPG was probably simply due to the instructions we have received on this matter (but as in my case, not all wards follow that idea).

 Thanks for setting things straight. Nice to know that some random internet guy is more honest than my former bishop (who pulled me and my friend aside and confided his reasons to us to let us know we were more than welcome to make comments). Too bad the HPGL didn't feel comfortable enough to tell us the truth. Thank heavens you're here!

[JohnsonJones]

Just now, Vort said:

 Thanks for setting things straight. Nice to know that some random internet guy is more honest than my former bishop (who pulled me and my friend aside and confided his reasons to us to let us know we were more than welcome to make comments). Too bad the HPGL didn't feel comfortable enough to tell us the truth. Thank heavens you're here!

Glad you are taking it kindly.

[SilentOne]

I think the change announced tonight is a pretty good solution.

[wenglund]

On 2/22/2018 at 7:09 PM, Morrkai said:

I have just been called as a high priest and high priest group leader.  What ate some good topics.  We have discussed priesthood blessings and concencrated oil and passed out vials.  Also we discussed home teaching  any help would be appreciated 

After the announcement in GEneral Priesthood meeting perhaps now you will be called again as Elder's Quorum President.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Morrkai]

@wade  you sound just llike my assistants.  It will intresting to see how this goes.  Its exciting 

[paracaidista508]

On 2/26/2018 at 5:53 PM, JohnsonJones said:

 

There is a blessing though.  Because of this experience, when called to leadership finally, I can sympathize with the many Hispanics in our ward (and even our stake).  When they talk about the blatant discrimination in the LDS church and point out to the fact that almost NO Hispanics are High Priests in our area, despite around 1/3 of the membership being Hispanic, or that the entire High Council and Stake Leadership is white...and to add insult to injury, that even the Bishop of the Spanish Branch is now white...I can understand a little bit of the pain and anguish they feel when it appears that others are being placed in positions...NOT because of righteousness or any other item (as I said, probably 1/3 of those or more who were High Priests during my time as an Elder are either inactive or out of the church completely...as in apostasy...great call on those with strong testimonies...NOT)...but because of who they are related to, or how much people like them, or any other reason with the added inclusion that they are WHITE...yes...I can now sympathize with them.

 

We have Hispanic branches here where the leadership is partly white....branches that have been here for half a century or at least seems that way. Strange. 

 

As for your commentary on young vs old elders and rank envy of sorts. I'm an old elder and I don't care. I don't thi k anyone cares except a few and their wives who view church positions as status. They can have that, I'll spend more time with my family thank you very much.