Asked not to wear pants to church


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1 hour ago, truthseaker said:
13 hours ago, NightSG said:

Well, it seems men are allowed creative interpretations like short sleeves and no jacket, while women are held to the full-but-redefined-as-needed standard.

It does seem that way doesn't it

How else do we keep our women in line? Let them dress for themselves, and the next thing you know they want to drive alone and vote.

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3 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Nope Nope.  Nobody wants that.

When I was up north, someone made the comment, "No Gator is going to be the next bishop." I sneered and said "I thought LDS couldn't drink, let me smell your breath". 

Everybody laughed. 

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3 minutes ago, Vort said:

 Let them dress for themselves, and the next thing you know they want to drive alone and vote.

@Vort, I'm not sure if you are joking or telling us how you really feel. Wouldn't surprise me either way. :lol:

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On 3/11/2018 at 8:40 PM, beefche said:

That link from earlier is not a recommendation, it is information. As a missionary, I was asked many times, "what do I wear to church/activity?" People are not familiar with our church so they want to know what to wear. Just like if you were invited to a party or a work function, you might ask, "what's the dress?" Notice the structure and language in that link, for the whole thing, not just the dress....it's explaining what to expect. Men do generally wear suits/ties to church and women, generally, do wear dresses/skirts. Some people might feel uncomfortable not knowing what to expect, so they dress casually then find out that in general, LDS services are not casual dress. That doesn't mean that you won't find men in clothes other than suit/tie or won't find women wearing something other than dress/skirts. It means that for the most part, the majority of the congregants wear suits/ties or dresses/skirts.

BTW, I'm not aware of any guidebook or leadership manual that actually instructs us to tell people to wear suits/ties or dresses/skirts. Again, I know that it says for us to wear "Sunday best," but they leave that to the individual to interpret. And the closest I can think of was Elder Holland's talk a few years ago (but even then I believe he said to not be Pharisaical about it).

Talking to the bishop is a very wise course. If someone is speaking to another member in such a way (without authority), then the bishop is the one to take care of the issue. My advice would be to speak to the bishop. Be honest with him but also listen to him. And then let it go. Allow others to be human, make mistakes, and do the best they can in this life and church, do your best to forgive, and just learn from the experience. I know I've said some really dumb things to people in my lifetime (in or out of church) or made decisions that I thought were correct only later to learn it probably wasn't the best decision. I've always appreciated people who love and forgive me despite my own stupidity, ignorance, or learning curve.

So, for a while there, my son's friends went to Church with us.  They were brother and sister and they would show up at our house before Church in athletic shorts or jeans and we take them to Church.  One day, the YW (I'm positive they did this for my son's friend) had a YW Sunday School lesson where they had a "bazaar".  They had YW bring Church clothes they want to donate and they hung all the clothes on a rack.  Then the YW went through the clothes to pick what they want.  My son's friend didn't know about it (they talked about bringing clothes to donate on the Wednesday activity) so she didn't bring clothes to donate but everybody said she should still pick a dress.  She picked this really sweet long black one-piece dress that goes to her ankles like a gown.  She wore that to Church every Sunday from then on.  Her brother was jealous.  He wanted to wear a suit but he doesn't own any and they didn't have a bazaar for young men.  My husband offered to get him a suit if he wants one but he made sure they both know what they've been wearing is just fine.  He didn't feel comfortable having somebody buy him clothes so he continued to wear his jeans or his athletic shorts.  His sister likes ribbing him about how she has a dress and he doesn't have a suit.  Kids.

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On 3/13/2018 at 10:45 PM, truthseaker said:

I'm angry that some dude I don't know told me what to wear, I don't understand why you need extra information from me to help you understand that.  I'm not refusing you anything, I actually think this whole conversation is kind of ridiculous, I just wanted to know if anyone knew what the church's offical standpoint on dress code for church attendance was.  Seems its a little muddy.

And FYI, I'm not offended by anything said by you or anyone else on this website.

Its just the internet people, calm your farm

"Calm your farm".  :hmmm:Hmm.  That is a new phrase for me.  I've never heard that before.  Is that more of an Aussie term?  (BTW, I'm being completely serious.  I've never heard that before).

Anyway.  I hope you had read my post about the reasons why our dress code is the way it is and how it isn't an absolute.  What I'm muddy about is that it seems you're surprised that we would even have a dress code.  You understand modesty.  But why anything else?  Here's an example.

I take a martial arts class.  There is a particular protocol we follow in beginning and ending the practice sessions.  There is bowing, terms of address, etc. that we use that are different than elsewhere.  One might wonder why we do all that when we're in the US with all US students and masters.  We're not in Asia.  Why bother?

The instructor asked us how we liked our uniforms.  I wondered what that had to do with this.  He explained that we practice "self-defense".  Are we going to be in uniform when someone attacks us on the street?  So, why do we wear them here?

Aside from the practicality of having workout wear, the reason we require it is much more important.  We have formalities and a uniform and different terms of address to remind us that what we do here is different than the rest of the world.  What can be done elsewhere is different than what can be done here.  It changes our mindset about what we're trying to accomplish.

On more than one occasion, I forgot my belt.  He noted it and reminded me to wear it next time.  He didn't kick me out or forbid entry to the practice session.  But he made it clear that it was important for me to wear it.  Since it was fairly infrequent, he understood and didn't mind it happening from time-to-time.

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On 3/12/2018 at 9:41 PM, NightSG said:

Really?  Everything I've been to that was formal enough for the women to dress up that much, men were expected to be in tuxedos, or at least much more formal suits than anyone I know wears to church on any sort of regular basis.  

You should get out more.  Think about a middle class wedding.  The wedding party wears tuxedos.  But the guests?  Not so often.  But how many women wear pants?  Most weddings I've been to: None.  And I'm not just talking about Mormon weddings.

I've been to plenty of slightly upscale gatherings (political dinners, awards ceremonies, etc.) where no one wore a tuxedo and no women wore pants.

On 3/14/2018 at 6:32 AM, NightSG said:

Well, it seems men are allowed creative interpretations like short sleeves and no jacket, while women are held to the full-but-redefined-as-needed standard.

How is a short/long sleeve shirt different than a short/long dress/skirt?

When did women not have the option of wearing a jacket or not?

When I was a missionary we were told to ALWAYS wear a jacket.  During the summer months (it was Arizona) we were told that we didn't have to wear the jacket between certain dates.  But we had to wear them when we went to church.

When preparing or administering the sacrament, ALL participating Aaronic Priesthood are required to wear white shirts and slacks.  It is usually expected of bishoprics as well.

It seems that the dress code is actually MORE strict for men than for women.  I don't see anyone allowing men to wear shorts for instance.

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Guest MormonGator
32 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

It is not required to wear a white shirt to prepare or admin sacrament. 

That's another argument altogether! 

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2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Aside from the practicality of having workout wear, the reason we require it is much more important.  We have formalities and a uniform and different terms of address to remind us that what we do here is different than the rest of the world.  What can be done elsewhere is different than what can be done here.  It changes our mindset about what we're trying to accomplish.

FYI, all martial arts gis derive from the judogi, which was developed by Jigoro Kano (actually (嘉納 治五郎 Kanō Jigorō in Japanese) and his students when Kano was developing judo in the late 19th/early 20th century. He decided they needed more durable clothing for practicing their throws and holds, so he came up with a special heavy-duty kimono for practice. Karate gis are a lightweight version of the judogi (because few karate styles emphasize holds or throws, so the heavy judogi gets cumbersome and sweaty).

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36 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

It is not required to wear a white shirt to prepare or admin sacrament. 

Depends on the bishop, who is the presiding priest and oversees every aspect of the sacrament administration. It is true that the Handbook specifies no such requirement. But the bishop is doing much more than seeing to the letter of the administrative law. He is teaching young men how to humble themselves and serve in the Lord's kingdom. Sometimes that means you wear a white shirt and tie. Sometimes it means you cut your hair. Sometimes it means you shave. In all cases, it means to sustain and follow the instruction of your Priesthood leadership.

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 

When preparing or administering the sacrament, ALL participating Aaronic Priesthood are required to wear white shirts and slacks.  It is usually expected of bishoprics as well.

I don’t.  Nobody has mentioned that I should.  

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1 hour ago, Grunt said:

I don’t.  Nobody has mentioned that I should.  

Probably because you're a new convert or the bishop just doesn't think white shirt is necessary in your ward.  You get this instruction when you move from Primary to Deacon for lifetime members.  It's like one of those "milestone" moments for primary kids.  For converts, bishops usually just want you to be comfortable in your new church environment.

And the reason I know this is because... my 2 sons got this instruction but the new convert who is a Welshman in our ward wore his customary blue shirt and bowtie.  The young men, including my son, started wearing bowties and it became a "thing" - like being a member of some bowtie club and young men wearing bowties started sitting with each other in priesthood.  The bishop asked to meet with my son and he asked him to start wearing regular ties again.  He was upset (he thought he was singled out because he was the only one that had this instruction from the bishop) and my husband told him, you can continue to wear bowties if you like (he was also upset) and my husband will handle it with the bishop.  But my son did not want that.  Starting the next Sunday my son wore a regular tie because he wants to sustain the bishop.  The bowtie club naturally disbanded soon after my son stopped wearing a bowtie.  After a while, the Welshman realized the bowtie club disbanded.  He probably did some pondering or something because soon after that, he started wearing a regular tie.  Then soon after that he started wearing a white shirt.  The bishop never asked him to do so.  The bishop never talked about bowties with anybody else except my son.  My son wanted to bear his testimony about this incident - about sustaining the bishop - but he decided to not share it because he didn't want to make the other kids uncomfortable about their bowties.  So, as far as we know, the bishop only gave the instruction to my son and nobody else was aware that there was such an instruction.  That was around 4 years ago and the Welshman has long since been ordained a Melchizedek priest and has not passed nor blessed sacrament in years.  He sometimes goes to church with his blue shirt and bowtie but most of the time he is wearing a white shirt and regular tie.

Edited by anatess2
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The "Can an LDS wear a white shirt while passing the sacrament" discussion is as controversial as the "Can LDS drink Pepsi" discussion. Fights break out, heads roll, it's all out war!  

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18 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

The "Can an LDS wear a white shirt while passing the sacrament" discussion is as controversial as the "Can LDS drink Pepsi" discussion. Fights break out, heads roll, it's all out war!  

Those white shirts, so often striped with red...

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3 hours ago, Grunt said:

I don’t.  Nobody has mentioned that I should.  

And most wards won't have a guy mention the pants dresses thing to a woman in the ward either.  But that is a common expectation.  Like I said, no one is going to kick anyone out of the church over this.  It's just one of those things.  But unlike the pants thing, the color of the shirt is not written anywhere that I'm aware of.  It's just REALLY common.

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

The "Can an LDS wear a white shirt while passing the sacrament" discussion is as controversial as the "Can LDS drink Pepsi" discussion. Fights break out, heads roll, it's all out war!  

So you mean they all start playing church basketball?  That's an odd thing to do after discussing white shirts....

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9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

"Calm your farm".  :hmmm:Hmm.  That is a new phrase for me.  I've never heard that before.  Is that more of an Aussie term?  (BTW, I'm being completely serious.  I've never heard that before).

Anyway.  I hope you had read my post about the reasons why our dress code is the way it is and how it isn't an absolute.  What I'm muddy about is that it seems you're surprised that we would even have a dress code.  You understand modesty.  But why anything else?  Here's an example.

Yes its an Aussie term!  It means calm down and stop overthinking things.

Of course I'm not surprised there is a dress code, its church, you should look nice.  

I don't why you would get that impression its certainly way off the mark, but the dress code should be clear as to what it is, and some random dude I've never met certainly is not the 'dress code enforcer', I didn't rock up to church underdressed, I didn't rock up immodest, I didn't rock up looking homeless.

Church is tomorrow, I'm wearing pants and going to talk to the bishop.  Old mate pants police can bite me. ;) 

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