Death burial and other happy topics

[Sunday21]

So how are you planning to be disposed of? I had planned on cremation but an ex bishop here told me that burial is preferred. I will try to find some lds info on this! Does anyone have an opinion? My mother wants to be cremated and tossed into a local river.

It seems ok to donate organs https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/02/i-have-a-question/am-i-wrong-in-wanting-to-donate-organs-for-transplantation?lang=eng

[Sunday21]

Bother!

From Handbook 2:

Cremation

The Church does not normally encourage cremation. The family of the deceased must decide whether the body should be cremated, taking into account any laws governing burial or cremation. In some countries, the law requires cremation.

Where possible, the body of a deceased member who has been endowed should be dressed in temple clothing when it is cremated. A funeral service may be held (see 18.6).

[CV75]

49 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Bother!

From Handbook 2:

Cremation

The Church does not normally encourage cremation. The family of the deceased must decide whether the body should be cremated, taking into account any laws governing burial or cremation. In some countries, the law requires cremation.

Where possible, the body of a deceased member who has been endowed should be dressed in temple clothing when it is cremated. A funeral service may be held (see 18.6).

I see a difference between "The Church does not normally encourage cremation" and "The Church discourages cremation." In some places, cremation is not lawful, counters strong cultural traditions, or has very tight regulations, and so the policy also says, "The family of the deceased must decide..." taking all this into account. The Church us not going to track it.

For example from Handbook 2:

From 21.4, the Church "strongly discourages" artificial insemination, invitro fertilization with non-spousal gametes, sperm donation, surgical sterilization and surrogate motherhood. Yet there is a caveat with many of these, "However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife." In such matters, the Church does track the results; she does have a record-keeping and ordinance responsibility that can be undermined or compromised with the powerful emotions and affected relationships  that often accompany or result from these decisions.

A couple of other examples: 21.1.18, "The Church discourages rewriting the Book of Mormon into familiar or modern English."  (Yet people buy the children' versions!). This seems to have to do with the Church's role in publishing and spreading the authentic word of God. From 13.6, members are discouraged from holding receptions in other facilities on Monday nights, the presentation of team or individual awards or trophies is discouraged, and long-distance travel for activities. These seem to fall into the area of putting the cultural and social mores of Zion above those of the community.

[Guest MormonGator]

The father of one of LGs best friends recently passed away. He donated his body to science, a wonderful and very giving thing! 

[lostinwater]

5 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

So how are you planning to be disposed of? I had planned on cremation but an ex bishop here told me that burial is preferred. I will try to find some lds info on this! Does anyone have an opinion? My mother wants to be cremated and tossed into a local river.

It seems ok to donate organs https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/02/i-have-a-question/am-i-wrong-in-wanting-to-donate-organs-for-transplantation?lang=eng

Having such decisions thrust upon a person is hard enough.  My recommendation would be to do what is easiest and least painful for all involved.  

Organ donation and cremation for me, though, since you asked.

@Sunday21 - i very much hope you are ok.  

[Sunday21]

@lostinwater. Am fine! Just morbid!

[Guest]

How do I want my corpse disposed of?  For me, the question is . . . What is the cheapest option?  If being cremated isn't going to work, I would love to go with a biodegradable (cardboard) casket and without embalming or encasing in concrete.  It is cheaper and more natural, and let's face it, my remains aren't me - I am going to be in Paradise, so there is no need to go through elaborate and expensive measures to preserve what little is left over and detract from what I can leave for my children.

Maybe I should just donate to science . . . I imagine that would be pretty cheap!

Edited March 11, 2018 by DoctorLemon

[Jedi_Nephite]

I told my wife that when I die, to just stuff me in a Hefty bag and leave me outside by the curb.

[Jane_Doe]

10 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

So how are you planning to be disposed of? I had planned on cremation but an ex bishop here told me that burial is preferred. I will try to find some lds info on this! Does anyone have an opinion? My mother wants to be cremated and tossed into a local river.

Me?

Dispose of my body is the cheapest sanitary way possible.  Skip any expensive funeral, and instead use that money wisely for my children and (hopefully) grandchildren.  

[mordorbund]

Death Planning? Mordorbund has a list:

1. Go ahead and get your affairs in order now. Make your will, be sure to fill out a living will while you're at it, and don't forget to include details about what happens to your dependents. It's an awful and uncomfortable conversation to have with your spouse. You might fight, negotiate, compromise, and want to give up on the whole thing. But it's much better for the survivors if there's a clear plan in place.
2. While you're at it, go ahead and write a suggested funeral. One of the disadvantages of death favoring the old is that young people don't know what to do with it. Additionally, the responsible relative has a full plate coordinating when the funeral will be, where, where will everyone stay, and that's without the legal side of requesting a death certificate for the insurance, various shared accounts, and executing the will. Having a funeral planned means inviting the speakers and performers.
3. The person giving the eulogy has a narrow view of the deceased. (especially if it's a family member who's giving the eulogy) Do that person a favor and have the family meet together and write down some memories. There actually isn't a lot of writing that happens. It becomes a shared memorial experience, that combines tribute and roast all in one (maybe I've been doing it wrong). It also rounds out the eulogizer's view of the deceased, which is helpful because that person is often grieving as well and has only been given a few days to prepare a really proper sendup.

This has been my learning over the years:

1. My grandparents wrote up a will and set up a trust as soon as they retired. They updated their will every time they moved to a new state. As each one died there was no mystery or fight over who was inheriting what. My dad wrote up two wills: one when he still had kids in the house (which included who would raise us if both parents died), and one just months before his death. These were less formal than what my grandparents had filed, but still legally binding.
2. A few months before my dad died he had a lengthy stay in the hospital. I flew there the second week to relieve the A-Team (everyone rushed in to be with him at a time of crisis, but I calculated that they would all return back to work at the same time so I delayed my arrival knowing support would still be needed later). At one point when the conversation ran out, he reached into his pocket and pulled out his little notebook and started reading his funeral plans. It would be great if Sister So-and-so would sing Amazing Grace. I want Brother Whatshisname to give a really fiery sermon on repentance. I mean, this is prime missionary opportunity here, so really lay it on thick! Some things got vetoed by Mom, but by and large the program was followed (probably because it meant we didn't have to put thought into it).
3. I don't know where she got the idea from, but my mom has had us doing this before every funeral I've been to as an adult and as I said, the eulogies are a lot easier to write, and it gives the families a way to mourn together.
4. Someone is supposed to play Another One Bites the Dust as the casket is lowered. That song was written for weddings and funerals.

[Blossom76]

I want to be cremated and planted as a tree - then my great grandkids can climb me!

https://urnabios.com

[zil]

9 hours ago, mordorbund said:

Death Planning? Mordorbund has a list:

1. Go ahead and get your affairs in order now. Make your will, be sure to fill out a living will while you're at it, and don't forget to include details about what happens to your dependents. It's an awful and uncomfortable conversation to have with your spouse. You might fight, negotiate, compromise, and want to give up on the whole thing. But it's much better for the survivors if there's a clear plan in place.
2. While you're at it, go ahead and write a suggested funeral. One of the disadvantages of death favoring the old is that young people don't know what to do with it. Additionally, the responsible relative has a full plate coordinating when the funeral will be, where, where will everyone stay, and that's without the legal side of requesting a death certificate for the insurance, various shared accounts, and executing the will. Having a funeral planned means inviting the speakers and performers.
3. The person giving the eulogy has a narrow view of the deceased. (especially if it's a family member who's giving the eulogy) Do that person a favor and have the family meet together and write down some memories. There actually isn't a lot of writing that happens. It becomes a shared memorial experience, that combines tribute and roast all in one (maybe I've been doing it wrong). It also rounds out the eulogizer's view of the deceased, which is helpful because that person is often grieving as well and has only been given a few days to prepare a really proper sendup.

This has been my learning over the years:

1. My grandparents wrote up a will and set up a trust as soon as they retired. They updated their will every time they moved to a new state. As each one died there was no mystery or fight over who was inheriting what. My dad wrote up two wills: one when he still had kids in the house (which included who would raise us if both parents died), and one just months before his death. These were less formal than what my grandparents had filed, but still legally binding.
2. A few months before my dad died he had a lengthy stay in the hospital. I flew there the second week to relieve the A-Team (everyone rushed in to be with him at a time of crisis, but I calculated that they would all return back to work at the same time so I delayed my arrival knowing support would still be needed later). At one point when the conversation ran out, he reached into his pocket and pulled out his little notebook and started reading his funeral plans. It would be great if Sister So-and-so would sing Amazing Grace. I want Brother Whatshisname to give a really fiery sermon on repentance. I mean, this is prime missionary opportunity here, so really lay it on thick! Some things got vetoed by Mom, but by and large the program was followed (probably because it meant we didn't have to put thought into it).
3. I don't know where she got the idea from, but my mom has had us doing this before every funeral I've been to as an adult and as I said, the eulogies are a lot easier to write, and it gives the families a way to mourn together.
4. Someone is supposed to play Another One Bites the Dust as the casket is lowered. That song was written for weddings and funerals.

This reminds me that my to-do list includes writing my own obituary - no one else would be nearly as sarcastic about it as I could be - and everyone else would probably stick to the facts, where I have no problem making up things which sound (and perhaps are) fictional.  I'm not concerned about the funeral - I've already informed relevant parties¹ that if they have a funeral for me I will come back to haunt them (in particular, I will find a way to continually knock their pens onto the floor).

¹Excepting my dad - if I die before him, I don't think there will be any stopping of the funeral.  (Well, and I didn't mention it to my brothers, but I'm pretty sure I can be disposed of before they have a chance to arrange anything, and then they won't bother.)

[Guest]

I really don't care.  I'll be so happy to get out of this world that I don't think I'll be paying much attention.  Let my family figure out what they need to do.  I doubt anyone will be grieving, so they could just dump my body in the ocean.

I'm not really sure what the past discouraging of cremation was about.  I had believed that it was just a cultural thing.  It was only done if you couldn't afford a "proper burial".  But I don't see what difference it would make.  I'm not going to use my body again until the resurrection.  And I don't see any reason to believe that cremation will somehow hinder the resurrection.

[anatess2]

This is what I believe - I believe it is not for me to decide.  I am dead.  "It's not my problem anymore".  I leave it to my husband and kids to decide what to do with me, whatever makes them feel better about my passing.  If they want to donate me to science, have at it.  If they want to wear my ashes around their necks, have at it (I wouldn't put it past my boys to be morbid like this!).  If they want to bury me upside down with my butt to the sky so people can kiss it, have at it.  I promise not to haunt them for it.

But yeah, they think about walking around the house with shoes on just because I'm not there anymore to yell at them, I'm gonna do a Patrick Swayze and sic Whoopie Goldberg on them. 

 

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

 

I'm not really sure what the past discouraging of cremation was about.  I had believed that it was just a cultural thing.  It was only done if you couldn't afford a "proper burial".  But I don't see what difference it would make.  I'm not going to use my body again until the resurrection.  And I don't see any reason to believe that cremation will somehow hinder the resurrection.

A "proper burial" is encouraged to offer the highest form of dignity for the human body.  It is considered a more respectful treatment of the mortal vehicle of the spirit - that it be left to turn to dust naturally.  This, of course, is not really a teaching for the one that already passed.  It is more a teaching for the ones who are left behind - that the body, although mortal, is an important part of one's journey to God, and needs to be treated like a temple.

So like the Kirtland Temple, for example, where circumstances led for it to become devoid of the presence of Christ, (kinda like the spirit of man leaving his mortal body), we still try to preserve the Kirtland Temple building and treat it with respect.  If we ever get that building back, and let's say we don't intend to make it into a Temple again, we probably will never burn the building either.  I don't know, maybe we will but I doubt it.

Edited March 12, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

A "proper burial" is encouraged to offer the highest form of dignity for the human body.  It is considered a more respectful treatment of the mortal vehicle of the spirit - that it be left to turn to dust naturally.  This, of course, is not really a teaching for the one that already passed.  It is more a teaching for the ones who are left behind - that the body, although mortal, is an important part of one's journey to God, and needs to be treated like a temple.

Thank you, Frau Doktor.  I'll be sure to write that down.

[anatess2]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Thank you, Frau Doktor.  I'll be sure to write that down.

Credit to my uncle - the guy who bought a ginormous piece of expensive land adjacent to the Catholic cemetery and turned it into our family cemetery.  He's the one that taught me this and told everyone of us in the family that the lack of money will never lead us to have to opt for cremation over burial.  Unfortunately, his grandchildren defied his beliefs and cremated his son - for no other reason other than they don't want their grandfather to have his way.

[SilentOne]

21 hours ago, Jedi_Nephite said:

I told my wife that when I die, to just stuff me in a Hefty bag and leave me outside by the curb.

I believe Glad is the proper brand for that purpose.

 

[seashmore]

My grandfather said funerals are for the living and my survivors can do what they feel is best (likely cheapest and easiest, which is what I'd choose, anyhow).  I know my dad was upset about his mother being cremated; I guess he likes open casket because it gives him a sense of closure.  I will say her being cremated allowed a postponing of the funeral, which allowed those of us from farther away to attend.  Her eulogy was delivered by her oldest son, who pretty much read memories of her that one of my aunts had put together for her 80th birthday.

But speaking of organ donation...

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Credit to my uncle - the guy who bought a ginormous piece of expensive land adjacent to the Catholic cemetery and turned it into our family cemetery.  He's the one that taught me this and told everyone of us in the family that the lack of money will never lead us to have to opt for cremation over burial.  Unfortunately, his grandchildren defied his beliefs and cremated his son - for no other reason other than they don't want their grandfather to have his way.

I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post.

[anatess2]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post.

I didn’t.  Just wanted to share that bit of irony (or rather unfortunate event?) in my family.