The MTC Abuse Story


Guest LiterateParakeet
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest MormonGator
2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

BTW- what adult living in the real world has time or the inclination to report some honor code violation to BYU? 

 

Is BYU like prep schools were in the 1950's where if you see a violation of the honor code you are required to say something? Not an insult, I didn't go there and it's just a question. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Is BYU like prep schools were in the 1950's where if you see a violation of the honor code you are required to say something? Not an insult, I didn't go there and it's just a question. 

My brother once, when he went to pay his tuition at the BYU Administration building, was told that it would not be accepted, due to his having facial hair.  They asked that he go, shave, and come back to pay it.  And it was not a beard.  It was just a few days worth of growth (right term?)

But i don't think there is pressure to report someone else.  At least i never felt that way.  It did happen though - mostly just because doing so was a tool that scared and manipulative people had at their disposal for quelling their insecurities by eliminating competition and improving their own status.  i guess such people exist in every community and will usually use every tool at their disposal.  And those tools get used a lot more when you put those people in pressure-cooker situations.  And there were a lot of those in BYU.  i guess at every university - but especially where one's sense of personal goodness is so integrated into the whole experience, as it is at BYU.  Just my impressions, though.

Edited by lostinwater
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

My brother once, when he went to pay his tuition at the BYU Administration building, was told that it would not be accepted, due to his having facial hair.  They asked that he go, shave, and come back to pay it.  

Sorry about your brother. I have a full beard/mustache that I've had for two decades now. I can't imagine shaving it. If someone asked, I'd ignore them. 

 

3 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

But i don't think there is pressure to report someone else.  At least i never felt that way.  

That's good. I'd find it hard to trust someone if I thought they were constantly looking for a reason to gain brownie points by squealing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I don't have a weird fixation on your job. You brought up the fact you weren't trained in pretextual phone calls. Your bringing this up implied in my mind that due to your current job,i f it was a valid technique you would know about it.

Quite to the contrary, I was trying to limit my criticism by noting that I am not fully trained in the technique.

I agree...if done by an LE agency or law firm. This was the alleged victim. She can do what she wants with it.

The Salt Lake Tribune of 4/16/16 says the call was done in cooperation with law enforcement.  (“Boss of prosecutor who criticized BYU says school supports rape victims, has not interfered”)Which call?? Barney or Bishop? I agree barneys was and Bishop was not. I dont recall stating otherwise.

They cared enough to look into it with an unsolicited reporting by Randolph.

BYU didn’t investigate her because she had somehow “sinned” by virtue of being sexually assaulted.  They investigated her because 1) the initial tip suggested she was trying to ruin a man’s life by making a false report to law enforcement; and 2) on doing some research it became clear that immediately before her assault she was voluntarily having sexual relations on her living room couch. Still unsolicited... Randolph decides he needs to go to bat for a 39 year old married dude who is having biblical knowledge of a 19 year old girl and all he provides is a police report which anyone can get through the proper channels? How much of an idiot is randolph esp when nothing prohibited the suspect from doing it himself??? 

Already explained re the stealing of a report. He had no business as an LE officer for transferring that report to BYU. Those are strictly need to know only. The suspect could have done that, but he did not.

You’ve alleged BYU of mishandling info from the Spillman database, which I will come back to and which even if true doesn’t conform your lie about the “stolen” report.  And no, Randolph didn’t “steal” the report; Seidu gave it to him. Utah County Sheriff Jim Tracy confirmed that as a “special function officer” Randolph was off-clock when he turned the report over to BYU-Title IX and thus was acting as a citizen, not a law enforcement officer.  That’s why, contra the lie you peddled earlier, Randolph was NOT disciplined by his Internal Affairs section for ferrying the report to BYU. 

It is not a lie- at best it is semantics. Why not just tell his buddy to go do it himself? Any cop who injects himself into an investigation for a friend is asking for every bad thing that can happen- to happen.

BYU PD detective was sitting right there. He knew they were not supposed to use that report. It was none of of their business. They did it anyway

Source?  My understanding of the 11/23/15 meeting was that it was attended by Randolph, a friend who was also a BYU employee, another friend of his, and BYU Title IX office staff.  Again—the chain of custody for this document came from Seidu himself. And the BYU cop accessed it too. 

By the way, BYUPD did access the Spillman record of the Provo report per HCO’s request on the day Randolph contacted them.  They did not distribute the written report; they merely orally reported some of the salient details back to HCO.  And one might argue it was very much BYU’s business if a student was trying to perpetrate a financial fraud against the university, which fundamentally is what Barney was doing. Well you just sourced it yourself. I read the same thing. Sitting right there is semantics if thats how you want to be. They communicated with each other and the BYU cop looked up the report for the morality folks. Im having trouble seeing how accessing a legal document in order to enforce a civil honor-code agreement is even legal in the first place. Must not be since the DOJ and State of Utah is all over BYU about this right now.

Why do you think when this came out Provo PD was like how they heck these guys get the police report??? Come to find out BYU had access to the Spillman database. Apparently they are not supposed to so that is under investigation. Additionally, once Provo PD got wind of this they found BYU pd had accessed thousands of their reports for unknown reasons...that will be another juicy finding I am sure. So Provo looks into this and finds out BYU PD accessed the sexual assault report three days prior to Randolph delivering the paper copy to them. Right after Randolph calls them and tells them of the sex assault allegation and wanting to report an honor code violation. 

Provo PD got wind of this because on 11/25/15 BYUHCO calles Barney and asked her to discuss recent alleged honor code violations.  Barney lied and replied that she hadn’t violated the honor code, whereupon she was confronted with the police report provided BYU Randolph two days earlier.  Barney called Provo PD to report witness intimidation and ask how the heck BYU was able to get solid evidence of her deceit.  That was the cause of Detective Webb’s investigation.

BYU’s own chief of police requested in May of 2016 that the state Department of Public Safety audit BYUPD’s use of Spillman records, and Provo PD immediately joined that request.  The investigation was finished in mid-2017 showing that, yes, BYU has accessed reports for over 6,000 cases over an eighteen-month period; and the circumstances behind each and every one of those records being pulled still hadn’t been completely weeded out.   Nearly a year later there have still been no charges and no adverse actions against BYUPD’s Spillman access. Interestingly, once news of the investigation broke, the inquiries into the database more than halved. I wonder why?

BTW- what adult living in the real world has time or the inclination to report some honor code violation to BYU? 

Apparently, either someone with strong community ties to BYU who doesn’t like the idea of his tithing dollars going to subsidize the education (Provo PD conclusion) or someone with strong community ties to BYU who was concerned about the pattern of exploitation of/by BYU athletes that was alluded to in the report (Utah County Sheriff Internal Affairs and Utah County Attorney’s Office conclusion).  I dont like the idea of my tithing dollars subsidizing a police agency that is out of line either....and why are our tithing dollars paying for kids edu?? Man I need to look into that. Can my kid get a  tithing scholarship if he attends another university??..that is something else. 

By the way:  IA cleared Randolph of any wrong-doing vis a vis the report.  The pending investigation was coming from POST, which was accusing him of having lied to the Provo PD regarding his motives for relaying the report.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:

Which call?? Barney or Bishop? I agree barneys was and Bishop was not. I dont recall stating otherwise.

Glad we agree.  Given that you were responding to my observation that pretext interview didn't bring a conviction in Barney's case, I thought we were still talking about Barney.  Let me know if you plan to change the topic to Bishop again; so far as I know, we're still talking about Barney.  ;)

Quote

Still unsolicited... Randolph decides he needs to go to bat for a 39 year old married dude who is having biblical knowledge of a 19 year old girl and all he provides is a police report which anyone can get through the proper channels? How much of an idiot is randolph esp when nothing prohibited the suspect from doing it himself??? 

You are trying to deflect from the issue, which was your assertion that BYU's activities were "just a nice way of discouraging the reporting of sexual assault" and adding, when I suggested that BYU didn't care whether people reported sexual assault or not; that "[t]hey cared enough to look into it with an unsolicited reporting".  

The simple fact is that despite your earlier assertion, BYU is not trying to discourage or prevent the filing of police reports by legitimate victims.  

Quote

It is not a lie- at best it is semantics. Why not just tell his buddy to go do it himself? Any cop who injects himself into an investigation for a friend is asking for every bad thing that can happen- to happen.

Allow me to summarize/paraphrase our exchange on this matter:

You:  "He stole the report!"
 
Me:  "Actually no, he didn't; it was given to him lawfully." 
 
You:  "He stole the report and gave it to BYU in violation of his professional obligations!"
 
Me:  "Actually no, as I've already outlined, he obtained it lawfully; and the terms of his employment did not prevent him from disseminating the document in his capacity as a private citizen.  Furthermore, his Internal Affairs investigators made the same finding."
 
You:  [mumbling] "Well, if you wanna get semantical about it all . . . "

Paracaidista508, if it is true that you are retired law enforcement, then you of all people know that words have meanings.  

Quote

Well you just sourced it yourself. I read the same thing. Sitting right there is semantics if thats how you want to be. They communicated with each other and the BYU cop looked up the report for the morality folks. Im having trouble seeing how accessing a legal document in order to enforce a civil honor-code agreement is even legal in the first place. Must not be since the DOJ and State of Utah is all over BYU about this right now.

So, you can't find a source substantiating your earlier claim that Randolph "did this with both a BYU detective and a Title IX person present. Are you admitting that the claim was false?

The legalities are what they are--time will tell.  GRAMA seems to have a penalty for public employees disseminating that sort of info--but BYUPD officers are most likely private, not public, employees.  The AGO has had the case for eight months, and still no charges; so while a smackdown over general procedure may yet be coming I wouldn't hold my breath for charges against the specific officer who pulled Barney's report.  As I recall the federal government is investigating BYU generally (plus over three hundred other universities) for federal Title IX violations, not for state-law violations by BYUPD or BYUHCO.

Quote

Interestingly, once news of the investigation broke, the inquiries into the database more than halved. I wonder why?

Wrong, again. The inquiries dropped off in the month of May, per the Provo Daily Herald.  The investigation was requested by BYU Police Chief Stott and officially began on May 26, as per an April 2017 article in the Salt Lake Tribune.  The news of the investigation broke on June 1, 2016.

The timeline suggests that Stott learned there was a problem with rogue employees in early-to-mid May, told his department to knock it off, and then asked DPS for an audit/investigation to find out just how pervasive the problem had been.

Quote

I dont like the idea of my tithing dollars subsidizing a police agency that is out of line either....

Assuming for a moment that no criminal charges are filed and that no laws were broken:  What exactly is "out of line" about a law enforcement agency giving a private institution the information it needs to prevent itself from being fraudulently bilked into giving away a benefit whose open-market value is in the tens of thousands of dollars?

Quote

. . . and why are our tithing dollars paying for kids edu?? Man I need to look into that. Can my kid get a  tithing scholarship if he attends another university??..that is something else. 

That's certainly a fair question to have; though as you say, it's probably better suited to another discussion.

But, remember eight hours ago, when you wrote "As for a vendetta against BYU...I have none other than I find their handling of this to be way out of line"?  Yeah, those were good times.

How many more falsehoods are you going to repeat in the service of your grudge against BYU?

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:

I dont like the idea of my tithing dollars subsidizing a police agency that is out of line either....and why are our tithing dollars paying for kids edu?? Man I need to look into that.

Not your tithing dollars. Tithing is not a tax.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

You are trying to deflect from the issue, which was your assertion that BYU's activities were "just a nice way of discouraging the reporting of sexual assault" and adding, when I suggested that BYU didn't care whether people reported sexual assault or not; that "[t]hey cared enough to look into it with an unsolicited reporting".  Yea they looked into it alright...from the standpoint of getting her on an honor code violation. That is caring, but not in the sense I thought of it as initially.

Heres a quote from an article (link below):

In her statement, Jenkins emphasized, "University Police enforce public law and safety on campus, not the Honor Code."

But school documents leaked to The Tribune and police files show a BYU lieutenant reviewed Barney's rape report after an Honor Code investigator requested information on the case, and that he shared with the Honor Code investigator intimate details from the medical records of Barney's sexual-assault exam.

The documents, verified by Provo police, indicate that the lieutenant specifically agreed to review Barney's file for evidence of consensual sexual contact — not a crime, but a violation of the Honor Code. BYU credits the code with maintaining "an atmosphere consistent with the ideals and principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," its owner. 

So, you can't find a source substantiating your earlier claim that Randolph "did this with both a BYU detective and a Title IX person present. Are you admitting that the claim was false?

No I was mistaken...the BYU cop actually illegally accessed the report for the Honor code office. That's even worse than siting there with them. He went and looked it up...illegally I might add or reemphasize.
Heres another clip:

But BYU documents, obtained by The Tribune and verified by Provo police, show BYU police already had used the Spillman database to access those Provo police records — apparently at the behest of the Honor Code Office — before Deputy Edwin Randolph brought the file to the school.

According to reports by an Honor Code investigator, or "counselor," Randolph had called the Honor Code Office on Nov. 20, three days before he delivered Barney's file. The counselor wrote down numerous allegations Randolph made against Barney during that call.

The counselor wrote in her report that on the same day, she asked BYU police Lt. Aaron Rhoades to seek information on the rape case.

Logs from the records system show Rhoades accessed Barney's case that day, Provo police reports state. According to an Honor Code Office report, Rhoades described viewing a "long police report with 3-4 supplements," and he relayed intimate details from the file to the counselor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The legalities are what they are--time will tell.  GRAMA seems to have a penalty for public employees disseminating that sort of info--but BYUPD officers are most likely private, not public, employees. 

Theres no such thing as a private police agency in terms of not being accountable. Pretty much any LE agency in the US who has the power to put you in jail, access govt databases and charge you with crimes cannot possibly be private. If so, they would have no accountability. I have never heard such nonsense. Sure they are paid by a private institution, but they have state police powers. They have to obey all laws- not exempt.

The AGO has had the case for eight months, and still no charges; so while a smackdown over general procedure may yet be coming I wouldn't hold my breath for charges against the specific officer who pulled Barney's report.  As I recall the federal government is investigating BYU generally (plus over three hundred other universities) for federal Title IX violations, not for state-law violations by BYUPD or BYUHCO.

Wrong, again. The inquiries dropped off in the month of May, per the Provo Daily Herald.  The investigation was requested by BYU Police Chief Stott and officially began on May 26, as per an April 2017 article in the Salt Lake Tribune.  The news of the investigation broke on June 1, 2016. Yea it dropped off when the news of the investigation (wherever that came from) reached the end user, not necessarily the "news" per se.

The timeline suggests that Stott learned there was a problem with rogue employees  (Agreed) in early-to-mid May, told his department to knock it off, and then asked DPS for an audit/investigation to find out just how pervasive the problem had been. I agree...that's why the activity dropped off. If it was on the up and up, why any change at all??

Assuming for a moment that no criminal charges are filed and that no laws were broken:  What exactly is "out of line" about a law enforcement agency giving a private institution the information it needs to prevent itself from being fraudulently bilked into giving away a benefit whose open-market value is in the tens of thousands of dollars?

What is out of line? Well for one, some girl having sex with some dude does not constitute fraud. Can you tell me how many honor coded people have been charged for fraud for breaking the honor code? Im betting ZERO. That is because it is not a crime. the punishment according to BYU honor code page is discipline up to and possibly including expulsion.

Additionally, using a function of the state to further the interest of a religious organization is about as much of a violation of the 1st amendment I can think of at the moment except perhaps the police smashing the BOM printing press. it is not a crime to violate the byu honor code. It is a crime, however; for a police officer (even a "private cop" lol) to illegally access a police report and share the contents with an unauthorized end user.

 

Using the police as a means to not only protect, but mandate a certain expression of speech reminds me of these guys:

See the source image

I still don't have a vendetta against BYU, but their honor code office, Title IX office and PD sure need some house cleaning. I can name some other police departments to include the one I used to work for who need an element or two from within to be purged or otherwise fixed. BYU isn't alone.

How many more falsehoods are you going to repeat in the service of your grudge against BYU?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/crime/2016/07/31/salt-lake-tribune-sues-says-byu-police-should-have-to-release-records/

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=3956084&itype=CMSID

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:

Im pretty sure BYU is substantially funded by tithing dollars. 
 

He was not debating if BYU is funded by tithing.  He was countering your sense of entitlement to control where tithing is spent.  On that front you are 100 percent wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:

Im pretty sure BYU is substantially funded by tithing dollars. 
 

Tithing dollars over which you have no ownership, control, or say in the least amount -- including the tithing dollars that you had the privilege of contributing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, paracaidista508 said:

Um I never said I should be the one to control where tithing is spent.

Um yes you did, at least implicitly:

15 hours ago, paracaidista508 said:

I dont like the idea of my tithing dollars subsidizing a police agency that is out of line either....and why are our tithing dollars paying for kids edu?? Man I need to look into that.

This is tax talk, not tithing talk. Tithing is not yours, even the tiny slice you contribute. You have zero say in where those dollars go. You are entitled to zero say in where those dollars go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

Um yes you did, at least implicitly:

This is tax talk, not tithing talk. Tithing is not yours, even the tiny slice you contribute. You have zero say in where those dollars go. You are entitled to zero say in where those dollars go.

And thus......since it is not our money, which I agree with, we have no expectation of those who draw salary from it to obey the law and keep us from spending even more of it to fend off law suits? 

So do church employees have no direction to spend funds wisely? Do we clean our own buildings because we feel like it or because it is a cost savings measure along with a few other reasons? Are church leaders bound to ensure budgets are spent properly to be good stewards of tithing and not waste it? 

If all those things apply, then do they not apply to byu pd also? I believe they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Is BYU like prep schools were in the 1950's where if you see a violation of the honor code you are required to say something? Not an insult, I didn't go there and it's just a question. 

16 hours ago, lostinwater said:

My brother once, when he went to pay his tuition at the BYU Administration building, was told that it would not be accepted, due to his having facial hair.  They asked that he go, shave, and come back to pay it.  And it was not a beard.  It was just a few days worth of growth (right term?)

16 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Sorry about your brother. I have a full beard/mustache that I've had for two decades now. I can't imagine shaving it. If someone asked, I'd ignore them. 

BYU has well-publicized dress and grooming standards.  EVERYone who works and attends there is required to agree to those standards regardless of religious affiliation.

As a private school, this is a private contract.  If you don't want to abide by the standards, then don't agree to it and go somewhere else.  It really is that simple.  No one forces anyone to sign it.  No one forces anyone to attend BYU.

BYU is probably THE least expensive private school in the country with an absolute TOP NOTCH education.  Do you think it might be worth shaving every day to obtain that benefit?  I would think any reasonable person would at least be able to see it as a reasonable exchange.  And if someone is not willing to abide by those standards, then it is their privilege to go somewhere else for their education.

Keep in mind what BYU is supposed to be.  It isn't "just a school".  Church standards and a lifestyle are part and parcel of everything we do there.  The things that are "unwritten rules" elsewhere are written rules at BYU.  As unwritten rules elsewhere, many may opt to grow a beard without any penalty. ( I myself am growing a beard as I type.  It's finally beginning to look good).  But at BYU, it is a written rule and it does carry some inconveniences (like not being able to make a payment in person).

Again we're getting into the realm of "What's the big deal?"  Truly, it isn't a big deal.  But that could just as easily be turned around. i.e. instead of "Why do I have to shave?"  ask, "Why don't you shave in exchange for receiving a tremendous benefit?" Seems like a small price to pay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

BYU has well-publicized dress and grooming standards.  EVERYone who works and attends there is required to agree to those standards regardless of religious affiliation.

As a private school, this is a private contract.  If you don't want to abide by the standards, then don't agree to it and go somewhere else.  It really is that simple.  No one forces anyone to sign it.  No one forces anyone to attend BYU.

BYU is probably THE least expensive private school in the country with an absolute TOP NOTCH education.  Do you think it might be worth shaving every day to obtain that benefit?  I would think any reasonable person would at least be able to see it as a reasonable exchange.  And if someone is not willing to abide by those standards, then it is their privilege to go somewhere else for their education.

Keep in mind what BYU is supposed to be.  It isn't "just a school".  Church standards and a lifestyle are part and parcel of everything we do there.  The things that are "unwritten rules" elsewhere are written rules at BYU.  As unwritten rules elsewhere, many may opt to grow a beard without any penalty. ( I myself am growing a beard as I type.  It's finally beginning to look good).  But at BYU, it is a written rule and it does carry some inconveniences (like not being able to make a payment in person).

Again we're getting into the realm of "What's the big deal?"  Truly, it isn't a big deal.  But that could just as easily be turned around. i.e. instead of "Why do I have to shave?"  ask, "Why don't you shave in exchange for receiving a tremendous benefit?" Seems like a small price to pay.

Thanks Carb.

No indignation here.  i'm learning that expressing indignation does very little good - for anyone involved.  Just gets everyone's hackles up.

Was commenting on one of MG's questions by relating an experience of my family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, paracaidista508 said:

And thus......since it is not our money, which I agree with, we have no expectation of those who draw salary from it to obey the law and keep us from spending even more of it to fend off law suits? 

Our expectation is that they fulfill their calling. The judgment of that is not left to us. Though the following indicates that you don't understand that subtle point:

1 minute ago, paracaidista508 said:

So do church employees have no direction to spend funds wisely? Do we clean our own buildings because we feel like it or because it is a cost savings measure along with a few other reasons? Are church leaders bound to ensure budgets are spent properly to be good stewards of tithing and not waste it?

Let me rephrase what I hear the parachutist suggesting:

We, the Latter-day Saints, are right to bellyache about how tithing is spent, because we care. Jesus is happy when we complain about the BYU PD (or the SLC mall, or how the missionary effort is directed, or whether we're digging enough wells in Africa) because finding fault with the actions of the Church or its employees is what the Lord expects of us. That is what Christ meant when he commanded us to "be one" -- we're supposed to carp and moan about each other.

2 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

If all those things apply, then do they not apply to byu pd also? I believe they do.

Your belief plus five dollars will buy you a nice cup of hot chocolate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

And thus......since it is not our money, which I agree with, we have no expectation of those who draw salary from it to obey the law and keep us from spending even more of it to fend off law suits? 

So do church employees have no direction to spend funds wisely? Do we clean our own buildings because we feel like it or because it is a cost savings measure along with a few other reasons? Are church leaders bound to ensure budgets are spent properly to be good stewards of tithing and not waste it? 

If all those things apply, then do they not apply to byu pd also? I believe they do.

Indeed they are stewards and they are accountable... What you seem to fail to understand is that they are not accountable to you... you have no stewardship over BYU its funds or its actions.  Yet you seem to think that you do.  Which reinforces the idea that you are less concerned about correct and true stewardship then you are at looking for a reason to complain and stick a knife in them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, paracaidista508 said:

  they did a fine job doing that all on their own

Oh please your complaints are totally yours... own them...

As for a knife it seems that BYU is doing just fine inspite of haters like yourself

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

BYU is probably THE least expensive private school in the country with an absolute TOP NOTCH education.  Do you think it might be worth shaving every day to obtain that benefit? 

I totally agree. 

Side note: I had a doctor willing to sign a medical exemption for me, so I could attend BYU with goatee intact.  I wish things had been slightly different in my past.  I would have enjoyed attempting to not smirk in smug self-righteousness when presenting that medical exemption to every zealous BYU student who took it upon themselves to tell me I was doing something wrong.  I probably would have eaten more apples.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, estradling75 said:

Oh please your complaints are totally yours... own them...

As for a knife it seems that BYU is doing just fine inspite of haters like yourself

BYU pd isn't doing fine, neither is the title9 office and neither is the honor code people...as for the rest of the school I'm sure you are correct.

As for the complaints being totally mine I can own whatever but doesn't take away from the fact they are doing serious damage control to make this whole thing go away....you know the compliant /investigation that is going on right now by the govt and not me.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, paracaidista508 said:

BYU pd isn't doing fine, neither is the title9 office and neither is the honor code people...as for the rest of the school I'm sure you are correct.

As for the complaints being totally mine I can own whatever but doesn't take away from the fact they are doing serious damage control to make this whole thing go away....you know the compliant /investigation that is going on right now by the govt and not me.

 

And anything that they did wrong will be corrected by those who have both the stewardship and authority to do so.  Neither of which you hold.. so it is pretty clear your agenda can't be anything good.  So quit trying to convince us you are doing anything less they grinding your own personal axe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

BYU pd isn't doing fine, neither is the title9 office and neither is the honor code people...as for the rest of the school I'm sure you are correct.

As for the complaints being totally mine I can own whatever but doesn't take away from the fact they are doing serious damage control to make this whole thing go away....you know the compliant /investigation that is going on right now by the govt and not me.

 

 

I thought to add something here – Title 9 generally is not doing well (what was intended).  There are unintended consequences.   Also having the experience of suffering greatly through an IRS audit I have learned that an investigation that is going on by the govt is not the sign that justice is the intent or the inevitable result.   When a lawyer must be hired and paid more than the maximum fine – regardless of the investigation results – justice is not served by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

And anything that they did wrong will be corrected by those who have both the stewardship and authority to do so.  Neither of which you hold.. so it is pretty clear your agenda can't be anything good.  So quit trying to convince us you are doing anything less they grinding your own personal axe

Sorry you don't like my posts...either ignore me or get used to it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • pam unfeatured this topic

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share