Lee

How did you know it was the right time to have your first child?

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28 minutes ago, Lee said:
29 minutes ago, Lee said:
  5 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What a lucky woman. 

Yes she is lucky to have me as a husband. 

29 minutes ago, Lee said:

I stand by my view. Some people are definitely too immature and selfish to have children, and those same people are definitely too immature and selfish to be married. 

We could have a child we aren't immature or selfish. We have been caring for our 8 year old nephew for a few months whilst his mom is in hospital, we both know how to put someone else first. 

Welcome to the forums, by the way, @Lee. None of us know you personally and can only go on what we see posted. I hope you truly are a wonderfully committed and responsible adult who is happily married and concerned about doing due diligence in deciding when the time is right to have children. It can be a frightening leap of faith.

Since we only have the online dialogue with you to go on, please also understand that some of what you have said in regard to your marriage makes it sound as though you feel that your marriage is expendable. Those phrases have already been quoted and commented on, so I don't know that it's necessary for me to bring them up again. While I don't condone sarcastic and judgmental remarks coming your way, I can see why many would jump to such conclusions (I've been guilty myself, but I'm striving to improve). As examples, the idea of being committed FOR NOW will strike many as lacking any real commitment at all. Perhaps, you are referring to if your wife became abusive to your children and/or was having extramarital affairs - I can't presume to know what is in your heart and I can't speak to when it might be appropriate for someone else to end their marriage. That would be between the couple and the Lord. I can say that since we can count on changes in this life that the commitment to a marital relationship and a parental relationship really needs to skew strongly toward the we-stick-together-no-matter-what end of the spectrum.

Now to assert that you are responsible and selfless (and I want to believe you) perhaps you can explain more about just what you mean when you say things like you have said; particularly those quoted by @Just_A_Guy @zil and reiterated by @The Folk Prophet in the dialogue between you of which I quoted a portion here as a platform for this comment.

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14 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

As examples, the idea of being committed FOR NOW will strike many as lacking any real commitment at all. Perhaps, you are referring to if your wife became abusive to your children and/or was having extramarital affairs

I know my wife wouldn't do such things, she is a good woman. I just don't believe I should stay in an unhappy marriage, if we are bored of each other, arguing all the time, if I am no longer attracted to her or if I fall in love with another woman and not being with her makes me unhappy then I think it is best we divorce. I am a good man if we divorced I would still support her and any children we may have. People seem to think that divorcing my wife would be selfish but actually to make her stay with me when I don't want to be with her or she doesn't want to be with me would be selfish. 

28 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

I hope you truly are a wonderfully committed and responsible adult

I am a very responsible man, I take care of my wife, my 8 year old nephew, my unwell sister in law, my aged parents and my clients at work. I survive on less than 4 hours sleep so I can perform my responsibilities and provide for my family. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Lee said:

I know my wife wouldn't do such things, she is a good woman. I just don't believe I should stay in an unhappy marriage, if we are bored of each other, arguing all the time, if I am no longer attracted to her or if I fall in love with another woman and not being with her makes me unhappy then I think it is best we divorce. I am a good man if we divorced I would still support her and any children we may have. People seem to think that divorcing my wife would be selfish but actually to make her stay with me when I don't want to be with her or she doesn't want to be with me would be selfish. 

Thank you for clarifying your position. I can somewhat understand your perspective, although I doubt I'll ever be able to agree with it on this issue. If you get bored with each other, is their no responsibility to reignite interest by doing things together and exploring? If you're committed to your wife how does the concept of falling in love with another woman even enter the equation? How do you suppose you'll feel if you're still hopelessly in love with her and she decides to "upgrade" to another man that she has fallen for? What's the point of marriage at all with this level of commitment to work on the relationship?

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On 4/5/2018 at 4:40 PM, Lee said:

Hi, my wife and I have been married for 5 years. We always thought that we would just know when the time is right to have our first chid, we thought we may get some kind of sign or we would both just have a feeling that it is right. My wife thinks that she wants to have a baby but we have prayed about it and neither of us have received a definitive answer that it is the right time to try and have a baby. Practically, speaking we are more than ready to have a child but I know it is a huge responsibility so I want confirmation from the Holy Spirit that it is a good thing. My wife she is more of the opinion that it can't be against god's will for us to have a baby so we should just have one. Which opinion do you think is right ? How did you know when was a good time to have your first child ?

Welcome Lee. In all the years you've been alive, how have you made decisions on other milestones? If you've gone to University, how did you decide where to go and what to take? How do you decide on things you're interested in? What made you decide to help take care of your nephew? Sometimes making decisions in life is not about a sign or a feeling but about what is the next step in living the life you've been given. When you were growing up, did you know you wanted to get married? Did you know before you were married if you ever wanted to be a father? If you know that you want to be a father and you and your wife are ready to have children, then go by what you want and what's right for you and your wife. You and your wife are really the only people that can make that decision. Don't have children because it's expected of you, have them because you want them.

M.

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8 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

f you get bored with each other, is their no responsibility to reignite interest by doing things together and exploring? If you're committed to your wife how does the concept of falling in love with another woman even enter the equation? How do you suppose you'll feel if you're still hopelessly in love with her and she decides to "upgrade" to another man that she has fallen for? What's the point of marriage at all with this level of commitment to work on the relationship?

I would try up for a year if my wife wanted too. I know I have a responsibility to keep our marriage exciting and to keep my wife's love by being a good husband, and I will always try to do that every day. If for some reason my wife stops making an effort then I don't see why I should stay with her.  

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4 hours ago, Maureen said:

When you were growing up, did you know you wanted to get married? Did you know before you were married if you ever wanted to be a father?

Actually, I didn't want to get married until I met my wife and fell in love with her. I never thought about having children until we were married but I wasn't ever opposed to the idea. 

 

I usually make decisions by praying and weighing up pros and cons. Although, since being married my wife and I make decisions together so I usually take her opinion and try to make her happy with my decision, or in some cases our decision. 

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4 hours ago, Lee said:

I would try up for a year if my wife wanted too. I know I have a responsibility to keep our marriage exciting and to keep my wife's love by being a good husband, and I will always try to do that every day. If for some reason my wife stops making an effort then I don't see why I should stay with her.  

Sad statement, this.  "I only love my wife if she's being good to me.  If she's being bad, I'm outta here."

Yeah, don't have kids.  Marriage is up and down, some days you love your husband, some days you hate him.  Especially when you're bleary eyed feeding a baby.  We don't want any more fatherless children in this world.

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18 hours ago, Lee said:

...I just don't believe I should stay in an unhappy marriage, if we are bored of each other, arguing all the time, if I am no longer attracted to her or if I fall in love with another woman and not being with her makes me unhappy then I think it is best we divorce...

@Lee, has your relationship with your wife these 5 years gotten better? Do you love each other more now than when you first got married?

I question your commitment to your marriage like others have. What would put you in a position of falling in love with someone else if you do love your wife. You seem to have a very carefree attitude about your marriage and the relationship you have with your wife.

Given this odd idea about marriage that you have, it might not be a good idea to bring children into your life. 

M.

Edited by Maureen

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8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Sad statement, this.  "I only love my wife if she's being good to me.  If she's being bad, I'm outta here."

 

That isn't what I meant. I wouldn't leave my wife for no reason but marriage is 50/50 I give 100% every day to make her happy but if she at some point isn't willing to put in even 40% to make me happy then I could easily fall out of love with her. The same would be true for her if I stop making an effort then I wouldn't be surprised if she left me. 

 

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Yeah, don't have kids.  Marriage is up and down, some days you love your husband, some days you hate him.  Especially when you're bleary eyed feeding a baby.  We don't want any more fatherless children in this world.

1) I couldn't care less if my wife is off with me for a day, a week or a month but if it is constant and we are unhappy why should either of us put up with that?

2) I would never leave my child even if I left my wife I would always be there for my child. 

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4 hours ago, Maureen said:

has your relationship with your wife these 5 years gotten better? Do you love each other more now than when you first got married?

Yes of course, she is the perfect woman we have a great marriage she is my best friend. I love her more every day and we have achieved all of our individual and shared goals over the last 5 years. 

 

4 hours ago, Maureen said:

What would put you in a position of falling in love with someone else if you do love your wife. You seem to have a very carefree attitude about your marriage and the relationship you have with your wife.

I wouldn't fall in love with another woman unless I first fell out of love with my wife. I could only fall out of love with her if she changed for the worse, if she stopped caring for me, she stopped helping me achieve my goals, if she lost her kind nature.  I don't have a carefree attitude about marriage, my marriage is the the most important thing in my life and my wife's happiness is my top priority. I always want to be happy and make others around me happy, if I can't be happy with my wife or if I can't make her happy anymore then I couldn't stay in that marriage, nor would I expect my wife to.  Why is that wrong?      

 

I know not every day will be great but even when I have been incredibly stressed with work or problems in my family I still prioritize spending time with my wife.  

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On 4/8/2018 at 5:48 AM, NightSG said:

Only if we're such utter fools as to ruin the best meat and torture the animal with such a poor hunting technique.  Headshots with rifles would still be the only humanely efficient way to dispatch a pig for food.

I take it you don't really go for head cheese.

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On 4/8/2018 at 3:36 AM, Lee said:

I could meet someone I am more in love with and want to marry, in that case divorce would be necessary for me to marry my new love. Many reasons for divorce besides adultery or abuse. 

Yup.  Sounds like true love to me.  I mean, every woman wants to marry a man with that attitude.

Are you sure if was actually love instead of lust?  Straight on the road to exaltation there, my friend.

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On 4/8/2018 at 7:51 PM, Lee said:

Yes she is lucky to have me as a husband. 

For now... until you meet someone hotter.

Quote

We could have a child we aren't immature or selfish. We have been caring for our 8 year old nephew for a few months whilst his mom is in hospital, we both know how to put someone else first. 

When you have an out.

That is what you're missing.  Marriage, children.  If you approach either one with the attitude of, I can always leave... then it is not a real marriage or parental situation.  That's the difference.  Both my wife and I approached marriage from the perspective that "divorce is not in our vocabulary".  We approached having children with the perspective that "parenting always requires on-the-job training" and we will press forward with a steadfastness in Christ to learn as fast as we can and as well as we can.

It's all about sacrifice. And you don't seem to understand what true sacrifice really is.  Unless you repent, yes, your divorce decree is already written.  Selfishness is the road to divorce, not lack of love.  You can feel this tingly thing called love all you want.  But if it doesn't lead to unselfishness, you're already done.

Edited by Guest

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13 hours ago, Lee said:

That isn't what I meant. I wouldn't leave my wife for no reason but marriage is 50/50 I give 100% every day to make her happy but if she at some point isn't willing to put in even 40% to make me happy then I could easily fall out of love with her. The same would be true for her if I stop making an effort then I wouldn't be surprised if she left me. 

 

1) I couldn't care less if my wife is off with me for a day, a week or a month but if it is constant and we are unhappy why should either of us put up with that?

2) I would never leave my child even if I left my wife I would always be there for my child. 

Define Love.

It's funny how people use the phrase, "Fall in love".  Like they were walking on the street, stumbled on a rock and fell in love.  What the heck does that even mean - Fall in Love?  

Love is not a feeling.  It is a decision.  You decide to Love your wife - for better or for worse, sickness and health, richer or poorer, not just until death but until life eternal.  Love is a PROMISE you make to God that you will spend the rest of your life bringing you and your wife closer to Christ, even if you're dragging her the entire way.  Love is not Love if you strap conditions onto it - I will only Love her IF.  What a CRAPPY MARRIAGE that is!  You don't go and get married planning your exit!

Like I said... DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN.  Every child DESERVE TO BE RAISED BY TWO PARENTS WHO TAKE THEIR COVENANTS SERIOUSLY and don't treat Love like stumbling on a stupid rock and falling into it... so you dust off your pants and fall right back out of it.  And just listen to yourself... "I would never leave my child even if I left my wife" - translated to, I have no problem depriving my own kid of their mother.

Edited by anatess2

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24 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Like I said... DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN.

I'd rephrase this a bit.

Repeat, believe, commit to, and understand this mantra:

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." - Jesus Christ

Once he understands, then he's ready to commit to children.

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On 4/8/2018 at 11:03 PM, Maureen said:

Don't have children because it's expected of you, have them because you want them.

This is one of those times when I agree with Maureen. Children should be wanted, not just items on a checklist. Based on this thread, it sounds to me like Lee is not in a good place emotionally or spiritually to have a child.

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16 hours ago, Lee said:

I wouldn't leave my wife for no reason but marriage is 50/50 I give 100% every day to make her happy but if she at some point isn't willing to put in even 40% to make me happy then I could easily fall out of love with her.

Your math is wrong. Marriage is not additive, it's multiplicative. 50% + 50% = 100% is the wrong equation. 100% x 100% = 100% is the correct equation. If each of you gives half, then 50% x 50% = 25%, which is not at all where you want to be.

And when she's giving only 40%, you darn well better be giving 100%, because 100% x 40% = 40% -- which is pretty poor, but it's a darn sight better than 40% x 40% = 16%.

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Your math is wrong. Marriage is not additive, it's multiplicative. 50% + 50% = 100% is the wrong equation. 100% x 100% = 100% is the correct equation. If each of you gives half, then 50% x 50% = 25%, which is not at all where you want to be.

And when she's giving only 40%, you darn well better be giving 100%, because 100% x 40% = 40% -- which is pretty poor, but it's a darn sight better than 40% x 40% = 16%.

You're confused ... 

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8 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is one of those times when I agree with Maureen. Children should be wanted, not just items on a checklist. Based on this thread, it sounds to me like Lee is not in a good place emotionally or spiritually to have a child.

Why would you think I am in a bad place spiritually ?

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

That is what you're missing.  Marriage, children.  If you approach either one with the attitude of, I can always leave... then it is not a real marriage or parental situation.  That's the difference.  Both my wife and I approached marriage from the perspective that "divorce is not in our vocabulary".  We approached having children with the perspective that "parenting always requires on-the-job training" and we will press forward with a steadfastness in Christ to learn as fast as we can and as well as we can.

It's all about sacrifice. And you don't seem to understand what true sacrifice really is.  Unless you repent, yes, your divorce decree is already written.  Selfishness is the road to divorce, not lack of love.  You can feel this tingly thing called love all you want.  But if it doesn't lead to unselfishness, you're already done.

Well that is nice for you, my wife and I approach our marriage differently. We believe we have an obligation to love, care and ensure each others happiness so we never have an unhappy marriage. We do not believe that we have any obligation to stay if our marriage isn't a happy one.

 

If you and your wife our willing to sacrifice your happiness for the sake of your marriage then that is fine. I am not willing to do that. However, I am not selfish and neither is my wife, I put her first always. Why do you think I am selfish?

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3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Love is not a feeling.  It is a decision.  You decide to Love your wife - for better or for worse, sickness and health, richer or poorer, not just until death but until life eternal.  Love is a PROMISE you make to God that you will spend the rest of your life bringing you and your wife closer to Christ, even if you're dragging her the entire way.  Love is not Love if you strap conditions onto it - I will only Love her IF.  What a CRAPPY MARRIAGE that is!  You don't go and get married planning your exit!

 

Love is a feeling! I don't have conditions to love my wife I love her that is that. However, we both always maintain the right to be happy. We don't have a crap marriage. Why would you think that? 

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