When Does Homeschooling Fail?


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1 hour ago, Vort said:

Which is why I always take my six-year-olds to a whorehouse, then to a crackhouse. They need to understand the realities of life.

You are comparing public school to a whorehouse or a crackhouse? That's awesome. 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

You are comparing public school to a whorehouse or a crackhouse? That's awesome. 

I'm comparing the idea that we must expose our children to evil so that they understand it to an example of exposing our children to evil so that they understand it. Taking an idea to a logical extreme is a common technique for demonstrating the weakness of an argument. I'm surprised you haven't been exposed to it. You were probably homeschooled.

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4 minutes ago, Vort said:

I'm comparing the idea that we must expose our children to evil so that they understand it to an example of exposing our children to evil so that they understand it. Taking an idea to a logical extreme is a common technique for demonstrating the weakness of an argument. I'm surprised you haven't been exposed to it. You were probably homeschooled.

There does have to be a balance though, right?   i mean, you keep people too isolated, and they become even snow-flakier than me - which is, well, pretty snow-flaky.  And, i attended public schools, to boot!  

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2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Statement 1 contradicts statement 2.

Would you send a raw recruit into the front lines?  No.  You send them through basic training without the enemy bearing down on you.  You teach them what their weapons are.  You train them evasive maneuvers and the art of concealment.  You train them and prepare them.  After a certain point, when they can take care of themselves, THEN they are ready to go into battle.

5 years old, 12 years old, 16 years old?  When are they ready to handle it by themselves?  Depends on the child.  Depends on the parents.  But I'd wager the VAST majority of youth are not ready by 14 or 15 years old.  Yet, we shove our kids into "the real world" at 5 years old?  And, yes, they received indoctrination that early.

How about, protect, nurture, love, and teach our children until they can wear the whole Armor of God before sending them off into battle in the front lines?  Children learn to deal with temptation by first learning the things of God.  Moses was able to discern Satan's deception by first knowing the glory of God.  Having seen the One, he knew to despise the other.  How can we hope for our little children to know the difference if we are throwing them into the fray before they even reach the age of accountability?

I can't tell you with your kids today.  I raised mine decades ago.  I can just tell you what I'd probably say my preference is, which is more a matter of opinion.  In that regards, I can express how I cam to my opinion...however what you do I think would be better be decided between you and the Lord...which would make it more a matter of prayer.  If I were raising kids today and had a similar choice, I'd probably prefer them to go to public schools.

As I said, my views are biased based on what I see at the university.  A LOT of Homeschooled kids get in trouble because they simply have no experience dealing with how canny their peers can be.  They are, simply put, unprepared for the cunning of the other students who want to take advantage of them.  They have NO experience to fall back on.

It's not like sending a soldier to the front lines...I'd when they are younger and you are there it's more akin to sending them to be behind the lines, but still in the battlefield of active spiritual combat.  They still have the other experienced soldiers to show them the ropes (their parents) and veterans to help protect them to a degree.  Sure, they can still be wounded or killed, but it is not as likely.  When they do get sent to the frontlines, they will already have experience and be vets in it themselves.  Still deadly there, but they have a far greater chance of making it than some greenie just out of training.

Whereas, keeping them home IS keeping them in training.  They do not get as much experience in the battlefield.

Sending them off afterwards...from homeschooling is like sending them to the frontlines ONLY with training and without any superiors or veterans to protect them in some ways.  They aren't even veterans themselves.

Now, if they've been on a mission, or have family there in the same city, they tend to fare far better (perhaps even being akin to veterans as well)...but by themselves...sometimes it's like sending them to the wolves.  With the younger homeschooled students we have some ways to protect them (they ARE minors still, even if going to college, normally they are also living in the Dorms).  Legally we can bring up laws and other things, but they still get exposed to a great deal that they would not at home.  Other students coming from homeschooling, it's different.

Children should be gaining the full armor of spiritual protection when they are at home already.  This is when you teach them right from wrong.  However, teaching is one thing....putting it into practice is another.  When they go off to schools and encounter things they can bring those problems back home to their parents to engage their parents.

In my experience Home Schooled kids ARE:

1.   Incredibly smart and do incredibly well with my classes.  I'd say on average they do better than other students.  They normally seem smart and hardworking.

2.  They have problems debating their views sometimes.  Some are comfortable debating others, but there is a good minority of them that have serious problems dealing with others.  They cannot take criticism and never listen to the other side.  They always shout them down, or would if they were allowed.  They never seemed to learn that there are other views out there than those their family share, and cannot understand that other people have viewpoints also.  Other students also have this difficulty...but homeschooled students sometimes seem to suffer from this more strongly.  This is especially evident when something in history does not agree with what they were taught at home and they feel a desire to try to debate the professor in class (for example, covering a basic idea of man having been on the earth for thousands of years and ideas of evolution and dinosaurs being touched on briefly...suddenly I might get an entire angry email debating that we should not be teaching such ideas in history...even if it's right out of a selected book that we are using!).

3.  Many of them seem to come with a very strong parental influence which overshadows themselves.  They seem to refer more to their parents thoughts and actions than their own.  Eventually we see this slowly dissipate, but it can take a while for them to form their OWN opinions and ideas. 

4.  The above may seem terrific from a parents point of view, but many times it's problematic.  They never had a chance to experience the world outside of their own parent's social circles and so have never developed on their own.  Other kids have branched out some (but are still developing themselves, just are further along socially), and have their own identity.  These homeschooled kids are out there finding out who they are and easily fall into bad persuasions at times in this exploration.  As I said the younger ones are more easily protected from the bad side of some of these schemes because they are minors and staff and faculty know to look out for them.  Some of the older kids though...it doesn't turn out how the parents would like it to in many instances.

So, for me, if I had to do it today, I'd probably have them go to public schools.  I'd rather they face some of the challenges that they will have to deal with when I am around and easily available.  That way they could bring up their questions and talk to me, or, since I see them more often, be able to talk to them and see their troubles.

I don't see the elementary - High School age students as much as University students.  I can't say exactly what troubles are there and my thoughts are based more on what I see from the university age kids than the high school age kids these days.  My last kid left the house almost 20 years ago.  It's possible a LOT has changed in that time.  In addition, because the university holds expectations and standards of who can even get into it, I expect that I see more of the better behaved and acting children that end up going to college than those who are in the public High Schools in general (nothing against those who do not go to college, I think there are exceptional folks who choose other career paths, I'm simply stating that I think due to the weeding out process to get to college you get a different type of student in many instances).

I'm not your family though, so you need to choose what you think is best.  If my kids were falling behind academically, I'd be concerned.  If the public school areas were not a conducive environment, I'd probably move to an area which WAS more conducive, even if that meant finding a different job (which, probably was easier when I was younger, positions in my career field opened up all the time back then).  The ideal is not just a child that is strong in the gospel, but also one that has a good and sound mind academically, and is as healthy as they can be as well.

My ways may not be your ways.  If you are thinking of this though, I'd say the best advisor in the universe is your Heavenly Father.  Take it to him in prayer and figure it out between him and you.  It is possible that there are solutions that are not mentioned on these forums or elsewhere (perhaps something that could be implemented at home in your homeschooling or otherwise) that will come to mind as you pray and ponder this.

I hope you find the answer that you are seeking.

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33 minutes ago, Vort said:

I'm comparing the idea that we must expose our children to evil so that they understand it to an example of exposing our children to evil so that they understand it. Taking an idea to a logical extreme is a common technique for demonstrating the weakness of an argument. I'm surprised you haven't been exposed to it. You were probably homeschooled.

Well, considering our Heavenly parents have sent us here and exposed us to evil so we understand it, and in some instances FAR worse than the crackhouse...I see your point in regards to their example.

Not that I agree, mind you, but I see your point.  It's one many individuals who are angry about the difficulties in this life express at times in regards to a loving Deity and their wondering how this could be so.

(Yes, my response is somewhat tongue in cheek in the same way I took Vort's other response...so you can also laugh at how rather facetious my response is).

PS: On an even more humorous scale, my daughter who seems to have the bad habit of reading over my shoulder pointed out how this can ironically also be interpreted considering my point #3 I made in the long post above this one.  I guess I was homeschooled in the pre-existence...Maybe this IS a good thing...

Edited by JohnsonJones
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23 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

you keep people too isolated

This seems to be a common assumption despite the fact that people here have reported that there's no shortage of socialization with home schooling (or at least, there can be).  Everyone I've heard discuss it in person understands that "isolated" is not part of it.

So what's with the "isolation" assumption!?

Edited by zil
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14 minutes ago, zil said:

This seems to be a common assumption despite the fact that people here have reported that there's no shortage of socialization with home schooling (or at least, there can be).  Everyone I've heard discuss it in person understands that "isolated" is not part of it.

So what's with the "isolation" assumption!?

Thanks @zil.

Agree. 

Just a general observation to promote the idea that while taking points to extremes is fine in debate, a bit of balance tends to be handier (at least for me) when it comes to actually applying in real life.  i am in no way against homeschooling - i have 6 nieces/nephews that are home-schooled - and another 5 that will likely be very soon.  But i think the points that @JohnsonJones makes are entirely valid as well.  Whether the good outweighs the bad is a decision i think every parent has to make.  And honestly, i think most parents (and the God that helps them decide) know their kids well enough to make the correct decision far more often than not.

Edited by lostinwater
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9 hours ago, Fether said:

No public school student I have ever met has said “I wish I did home schooling”, of the few homeschooled students I have met, half of them have wished they had been in public school.

 

Does it count if you meet them online? I went through the public school system and begged my parents to let me homeschool and I still wish I'd had that option. In the years between grades 2-6 I found school so repetitive and slow it would have been so nice to be able to work at my own speed and learn faster. In Junior High School I found the learning pace was a better balance for me and by highschool I felt like I didn't have sufficient time to learn material adequately so I ended up just learning things well enough to do well on exams and then forget it. I really wish I could have learned things more thoroughly for better retention at that point. College was even crazier for how little time I had to learn material - which I understand is because people don't want to drag out post-secondary education timelines - not too many people want to spend 3-4 years on a 2-year diploma or 7-8 years on a bachelors degree.

There is simply a part of me that would have liked to balance the learning timeline into a more personalized education plan that the public school did not afford me. I also wouldn't have minded hanging on to some innocence longer than I did. I didn't need to pick up a colourful vocabulary by the age of six. I might have been able to avoid some troubles with immoral thoughts if by second grade the topic of conversation at recess didn't revolve around sex - even if I didn't know what it was (I learned how when I was ten from an eight year-old - fortunately not a demonstration from her)

I also have to say that while I have met homeschooled children and adults who do seem out of place in social situations - I've met plenty of other socially awkward people who were not homeschooled. I was considered awkward in grade 8 because when the boys in shop class shared their deck of cards with porn stars on them my instant reaction was, "that's gross" to which the boys went on about. "who could possibly think Pamela Anderson is gross?" Now, that's not to say that I couldn't have had those experiences elsewhere even if I had been homeschooled. I can't blame the school system on the time I learned my friends sisters had touched me inappropriately while i was sleeping over. I can't blame the school system for the boy from church who wanted to engage in immoral activity with me. But, I can say that i had more of those experiences in school than out.

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4 hours ago, Vort said:

Which is why I always take my six-year-olds to a whorehouse, then to a crackhouse. They need to understand the realities of life.

My thoughts exactly.

The best way to teach a child to deal with wolves is to cast them to the wolves. Obviously.

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1 hour ago, lostinwater said:

There does have to be a balance though, right?   i mean, you keep people too isolated, and they become even snow-flakier than me - which is, well, pretty snow-flaky.  And, i attended public schools, to boot!  

You make people snow-flaky by teaching them snow-flaky values. You know...the ones that dominate public schools.

@anatess2 is definitely right in one regard...the parent makes the main difference. What she seems to miss is that the (taken to the extreme example) good parent would not teach them good principles at home and then drop them off at the whore or crack house. That's not good parenting.

Obviously where public schools sit in the whore house to holy house spectrum is up for debate --- but the idea that one can just disregard what they consider a whore/crack house environment if they just teach their children right is a bit silly.

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52 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

1.   .... hardworking.

Very important in the eternal scheme of things.

53 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

2.  They have problems debating their views sometimes. 

Not important in the eternal scheme of things.

54 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

3.  Many of them seem to come with a very strong parental influence which overshadows themselves.  They seem to refer more to their parents thoughts and actions than their own.  Eventually we see this slowly dissipate, but it can take a while for them to form their OWN opinions and ideas. 

I'd dare say that supporting this would be difficult. I bet it isn't true if one could find statistics on the matter.

I would dare argue that it's much, much more common that publicly schooled children end up with herd mentality. Much, MUCH more common.

Maybe @NeuroTypical will come up with a statistic.

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

My last kid left the house almost 20 years ago.  It's possible a LOT has changed in that time.

Um... You think?

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'd say the best advisor in the universe is your Heavenly Father.  Take it to him in prayer and figure it out between him and you.  It is possible that there are solutions that are not mentioned on these forums or elsewhere (perhaps something that could be implemented at home in your homeschooling or otherwise) that will come to mind as you pray and ponder this.

Awesome paragraph.

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1 hour ago, zil said:

Everyone I've heard discuss it in person understands that "isolated" is not part of it.

So what's with the "isolation" assumption!?

I think that depends on what one means by "isolated". My entire intention with homeschooling is to isolate. The question is -- from what?  I don't want my child isolated from some things. I very much want my child isolated from other things. I would dare bet that is true of why many choose homeschooling.

The parenting approach that some seem to express of "children should never be isolated from anything!" is AWFUL. If they truly believed that (which I doubt they do) it would be criminal.

Yeah....let's sit down and show our 2-year-old all of the Saw and Hostel movies and then follow it up with some hardcore pornography, because...you know...it builds character. <_<

Silly people.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

You make people snow-flaky by teaching them snow-flaky values. You know...the ones that dominate public schools.

@anatess2 is definitely right in one regard...the parent makes the main difference. What she seems to miss is that the (taken to the extreme example) good parent would not teach them good principles at home and then drop them off at the whore or crack house. That's not good parenting.

Obviously where public schools sit in the whore house to holy house spectrum is up for debate --- but the idea that one can just disregard what they consider a whore/crack house environment if they just teach their children right is a bit silly.

Thank-you Sir.

i guess i don't see being a (what some might call overly) gentle and fragile person as at all a negative thing.  i know some will differ, which is fine.

Other than that, i agree that @JohnsonJones paragraph you quoted summed it all up perfectly.

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19 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

i guess i don't see being a (what some might call overly) gentle and fragile person as at all a negative thing.  i know some will differ, which is fine.

I agree with this, to some extent. It's very good to be gentle, and it's not evil to be fragile or weak. But as Tevye said, "I realize, of course, it's no shame to be poor -- but it's no great honor, either."

God is not weak. God is mighty. If we are Godly, we will be mighty. If we are weak, that is not a bad thing per se,  but it is not Godly. Insofar as we have power to do so, we should strive to be strong, at least in important things. It might not be morally important to be strong like a farmboy. It might be much more important to be strong emotionally or mentally. It is most certainly important to be strong spiritually, to refuse going on with the Great & Spacious crowd just because it's the cool kid thing to do.

So if a man (or woman) is weak by his/her nature, that's not an evil thing. But it's all the more reason for that person to develop spiritual strength. Those who abandon their spiritual moorings or who refuse to work hard to establish them are at least partially blameworthy for their predicament.

I see no value in sending a five-year-old to public school. That is, I see how it can be a relief to the parent, who can now do the more interesting and, supposedly, important business of cleaning the house, earning money, or surfing the internet. Plus the kid learns how to count and read, so the parent doesn't have to bother with such boring tasks.

But to my mind, by delegating these tasks to faceless others in The System®, the parent is missing out on one of the very things that makes parenting so valuable. It's like having a king's banquet spread before you, only you don't want any of the meat or the wine or the fresh fruits or the bread or the vegetable dishes, but the raspberry tart looks like it might be good, and the pudding looks passable, so you'll have a little of those.

I want my children to learn at my feet, from me and my wife, and to absorb our values. They will have plenty of time -- the rest of their lives -- to practice dealing with the unpleasant and the deceitful and the wicked. No need to put my young child in a situation to have such perverse "values" crammed down their throats. They can grow strong in our home, then face those evils as mature young men or women with a solid moral foundation and practice in observing and rooting out untruths.

That's the theory, at least.

Edited by Vort
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4 hours ago, lostinwater said:

There does have to be a balance though, right?   i mean, you keep people too isolated, and they become even snow-flakier than me - which is, well, pretty snow-flaky.  And, i attended public schools, to boot!  

Your words are true. However, in my opinion, they betray another common misunderstanding about homeschooling: Homeschooling parents seek to isolate their children from society. In general, this is untrue. Homeschooling parents do indeed seek to isolate their young children from the evil aspects of society. But all conscientious parents do this, not just homeschoolers.

On the contrary, most homeschoolers I'm familiar with (which would measure in the dozens, possibly hundreds) actively seek the opposite, looking for ways to allow their children to experience the world in positive and edifying ways. Most homeschoolers, especially the conservatives*, would not find it a positive world experience for a schoolmate to share with their children some pornography they got at home, or maybe some filthy words and some perverse ideas about sex that they saw last night while sneaking a look at the movie their parents were watching. But a trip to the zoo or the beach? Heck yes! A trip to the city after studying public infrastructure to look at streets, buildings, and public works? You bet!

*Contrary to popular perception, lots of homeschoolers are on the left of the political spectrum, at least around the Seattle area.

Learning should be fun. Learning should be a natural part of life. Learning should be a logical extension of what people do all day. What could possibly be more natural and beautiful than teaching those things to your own children, having those experiences with them, actually being a part of their lives and learning? What could be more rewarding, for both parents and children?

Edited by Vort
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12 minutes ago, Vort said:

I agree with this, to some extent. It's very good to be gentle, and it's not evil to be fragile or weak. But as Tevye said, "I realize, of course, it's no shame to be poor -- but it's no great honor, either."

God is not weak. God is mighty. If we are Godly, we will be mighty. If we are weak, that is not a bad thing per se,  but it is not Godly. Insofar as we have power to do so, we should strive to be strong, at least in important things. It might not be morally important to be strong like a farmboy. It might be much more important to be strong emotionally or mentally. It is most certainly important to be strong spiritually, to refuse going on with the Great & Spacious crowd just because it's the cool kid thing to do.

So if a man (or woman) is weak by his/her nature, that's not an evil thing. But it's all the more reason for that person to develop spiritual strength. Those who abandon their spiritual moorings or who refuse to work hard to establish them are at least partially blameworthy for their predicament.

I see no value in sending a five-year-old to public school. That is, I see how it can be a relief to the parent, who can now do the more interesting and, supposedly, important business of cleaning the house, earning money, or surfing the internet. Plus the kid learns how to count and read, so the parent doesn't have to bother with such boring tasks.

But to my mind, by delegating these tasks to faceless others in The System®, the parent is missing out on one of the very things that makes parenting so valuable. It's like having a king's banquet spread before you, only you don't want any of the meat or the wine or the fresh fruits or the bread or the vegetable dishes, but the raspberry tart looks like it might be good, and the pudding looks passable, so you'll have a little of those.

I want my children to learn at my feet, from me and my wife, and to absorb our values. They will have plenty of time -- the rest of their lives -- to practice dealing with the unpleasant and the deceitful and the wicked. No need to put my young child in a situation to have such perverse "values" crammed down their throats. They can grow strong in our home, then face those evils as mature young men or women with a solid moral foundation and practice in observing and rooting out untruths.

That's the theory, at least.

Blast!  There you go quoting one of my favorite movies so i almost can't disagree with you :) .

Good points - my statement needed clarifying, and balancing.  i guess i mean the pure kind of fragility.  But yes, you are right - it needs boundaries.  

And i agree with what you are saying about homeschooling.   My sister who homeschools her kids expresses the same sentiments.  Sounds like your kids are lucky to have you as a Dad - because it seems you provide them the pluses of homeschooling while replacing anything it might be lacking.  i know many kids/families who wouldn't have done real well with home schooling - but it was a much different situation.  Good theories are the ones that work in real life.  So yours sounds like a real good theory to me. 

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4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I haven't read the entire thread, but have any of us been homeschooled? Why don't we talk to them? 

Back in early January I posted in @pam's Moses 5 thread about Cain. I mentioned in passing that I was homeschooled. That statement was apparently so controversial that the entire thread has been deleted.

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4 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Back in early January I posted in @pam's Moses 5 thread about Cain. I mentioned in passing that I was homeschooled. That statement was apparently so controversial that the entire thread has been deleted.

Now I'm wondering where in the heck it all went.

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5 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Back in early January I posted in @pam's Moses 5 thread about Cain. I mentioned in passing that I was homeschooled. That statement was apparently so controversial that the entire thread has been deleted.

So do you attribute your 216 IQ to having been homeschooled?

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5 hours ago, Vort said:

I'm comparing the idea that we must expose our children to evil so that they understand it to an example of exposing our children to evil so that they understand it. Taking an idea to a logical extreme is a common technique for demonstrating the weakness of an argument. I'm surprised you haven't been exposed to it. You were probably homeschooled.

I don’t think it’s a matter of *deliberately* exposing our kids to evil so that they can “understand” it.  I think it’s more a matter of acknowledging that—whether in college, or in the workplace—they will encounter evil eventually; and the question then becomes whether we want to be there and in a position to do some measure of damage control when, for the first time, the world starts pushing back against everything we’ve tried to teach them.  Thats the impression I got from @JohnsonJones.  It isn’t necessarily the be-all, end-all consideration here; but it does seem to me that twelve years of “safe space” can actually work against you if the transition into “real life” isn’t very carefully handled.  It would be interesting to see LDS-oriented data about what percentage of home-schooled versus public schooled kids wind up serving missions, marrying in the temple, and remaining active five, ten, and twenty years after turning 18.

I don’t think there’s a universal answer here—it’s a balancing test where you have to look at the quality of your local schools, the caliber of kids (and their families) who attend those schools, community standards of behavior, social and family supports, nearby home-schooling resources, and the time/skillset/health/competing obligations of the parent who would be doing the homeschooling.  

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9 hours ago, Vort said:

Which is why I always take my six-year-olds to a whorehouse, then to a crackhouse. They need to understand the realities of life.

If you just bring your kids to the staff room you can do it all in one trip :) (This is not an accurate representation of my views on the discussion, its just a comment I couldn't resist making)

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17 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But through it all, there were teachers who were exceptional.

This.  Unfortunately, far too few, though.  My HS, for example, back in the mid 1990s when a perfect SAT score really meant something, had two in one year.  A couple years after that, one particular teacher retired, and it's not been the same since.

14 hours ago, Carborendum said:

What you seem to be saying is that the "social disability" he had consisted of obeying the commandments of God rather than follow the social fads of the day.

Really?  I seem to remember a story about a guy who followed all God's commandments perfectly, and I don't recall anything about Him being socially inept.

14 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I dated a homeschooled girl for two years. She was very bitter about it.

Well, maybe you should have let her out of the basement a lot sooner, then.

14 hours ago, MormonGator said:

She said she missed out on proms, drama, field hockey, etc. I tried telling her that those things were vastly overrated, but she  never believed me. That's my only close experience with a home schooled person. Yes, I know she's an exception. 

Some parents forget about things like that, but it's not that hard to come up with better social activities.  An old friend worked with a couple from Argentina, so his homeschooled kids and several others they knew got tango lessons instead of dodge ball for PE, and instead of a prom, they all went to a full-on milonga.  Not only can the dresses be even more elaborate, but none of them were stuck doing the Penguin Shuffle and trying to look cool.

14 hours ago, Backroads said:

(one in particular, who is now a perfectly normal faithful LDS woman) was too obnoxious for homeschool, too mean-girl for private school,

So what do you think has kept her from changing all these years?

14 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I think there is value (or at least I got value out of) forming friendships with people of different religious and ethnic backgrounds such that I saw these people day after day and really got to know them.  Can that really be done in homeschooling groups?

If your "homeschooling" is just sitting around the house doing lesson plans, no.  OTOH, a lot of people put daily real-life experience into it.  For example, a few years ago, there was a couple travelling by bicycle with their three kids from Barrow Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego.  Those kids were getting geography, math, economics, language and culture lessons firsthand.  And no worries about childhood obesity.

 

14 hours ago, Backroads said:

Indeed. I don't condemn those who had sinned and suffered and repented and grown stronger and I rejoice in the lessons they learned.

But is it really the ideal way to go about things?

Somebody's got to say it...121820131847198.png

13 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But I guess "Being a Mormon" = "Have enough respect for women to not applaud their denying their divine nature."  That's what these men understood.  And I believe that is what Mormon men stand for.  I just wish the SLT would understand that.

Um, no.  What they heard was, "I'm a weirdo."  Nobody wants to go to the jiggly room with some dude that's going to try to order chocolate milk.

11 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Funny homeschooling story:   I was in my front yard, my daughters and the Catholic neighbor's gazillion giggly girls were all milling about playing.  Both houses know each other, we are good friends with their parents.  These are quite possibly the best neighbors I've ever had.  One of the older girls, about maybe twelve, came running up to me all excited. 

Her: "Mr Typical!  Mr. Typical!  Those flies are copulating!"

Interesting; I have a friend who describes Baptist church services as being about as interesting as watching flies...uh...mate.

Maybe you should recommend that girl if you ever get the Baptist wanna-be-missionaries running around your neighborhood.

6 hours ago, MormonGator said:

You are comparing public school to a whorehouse or a crackhouse? That's awesome. 

Also, inaccurate in my experience; whorehouses charge money for...that, and crack never really caught on here.  Guess that's why my HS sweetheart ended up becoming a meth whore a couple years after we split up instead of a crack whore.

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