When Does Homeschooling Fail?

[jewels8]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

You don't have them in homeschool because their parents are not the teachers.  You have them in a private school which happens to be in someone's home.  You can't treat it like a homeschool.  You have to treat it like a private school.  And that costs money.

If you're not paying anything to this other family, then you've got free babysitters who are willing to do you some favors.  If you don't like the way they're doing it, then you can just take them back and teach them at home.

Homeschool is if you or your husband are teaching your children.

it is a homeschool, private homeschool

 

[jewels8]

but I see what you are saying, I work and we can't afford the time or money for us doing it ourselves , we have some other special needs kids too

[NightSG]

14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You claim my comment was irrelevant and then proceed to provide a non sequitur explanation?  OK.  Thanks.

You claimed that people respect you because they find you useful and reliable.  I provided three examples of people I find useful and reliable, while having virtually no respect for any other aspect of their character. 

One of the three, I'd consider flat out depraved in every other meaningful way that comes to mind; she's cheated on four husbands, given four children (by four other men she never married) up for adoption, (ok, I do respect her refusal to abort any of them) been to prison for felony theft twice, and brags about sleeping with a guy she can't stand just long enough to convince him to buy her a car.  (Actually, that's just the latest of her boasts of what she can get guys to do for her with sex.  The 23-year list would take a while to go through.)  To the point that I would never recommend that anyone else trust her under any circumstances, and yet, for some reason, she's never treated me as she has even others who have done more for her.  And yes, she's well aware of my opinion of her life choices as I am of her opinion of mine.  It's actually kind of handy, as we both know, when the other asks for help, all other reasonable options have been exhausted.

Edited April 7, 2018 by NightSG

[NeuroTypical]

7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 @askandanswer is from Australia-they might have a different outlook and culture on homeschooling. 

Pitchforks down everyone. 

Yep - other countries, different backgrounds, judging a whole group from a single anecdote, only knew what they saw on the news, just never thought about it - there was always a reason folks had for basing opinions on things other than good information.  We tried to teach our kids to not judge.  And to avoid doing the same thing themselves. 

My wife did it like this:
Kid: "That lady told me she was sorry I never get to play with other kids."
Wife: "Do you ever play with other kids?"
Kid: "Yes, duh..."
Wife: "So is the lady right?"
Kid: "No... but..."
Wife: [holds up hand] "Was she right, or wrong?"
Kid "Wrong."
Wife: "So, does it really matter what her opinion is, since we know she just pulled it out of the air instead of from knowing what's really going on?"
Kid: "But why do people think that?"

(We never said "maybe she's from Australia", but we did think a little about where the person might have come from.)

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep - other countries, different backgrounds, judging a whole group from a single anecdote, only knew what they saw on the news, just never thought about it - there was always a reason folks had for basing opinions on things other than good information.  We tried to teach our kids to not judge.  And to avoid doing the same thing themselves. 

My wife did it like this:
Kid: "That lady told me she was sorry I never get to play with other kids."
Wife: "Do you ever play with other kids?"
Kid: "Yes, duh..."
Wife: "So is the lady right?"
Kid: "No... but..."
Wife: [holds up hand] "Was she right, or wrong?"
Kid "Wrong."
Wife: "So, does it really matter what her opinion is, since we know she just pulled it out of the air instead of from knowing what's really going on?"
Kid: "But why do people think that?"

(We never said "maybe she's from Australia", but we did think a little about where the person might have come from.)

I seriously never knew homeschooling was such an emotional issue. It's like vaccines, breastfeeding, abortion, evolution, the rock band Kiss (Kiss rules @mirkwood) or the reputation of our mothers! 

Let's give the Australian a break here for a minute. Deep breaths all around. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by MormonGator

[Vort]

25 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 @askandanswer is from Australia-they might have a different outlook and culture on homeschooling. 

Pitchforks down everyone. 

Pitchforks?

[NeuroTypical]

Oh, not specifically picking on you @askandanswer.  But make no mistake, opinions based on nonsense about our kids, thrown at our kids, was one of the potentially destructive things we're all arguing about how we should handle.  On one hand, it's kind of important to give children a certain amount of trust and respect for adults.  On the other hand, sometimes adults say and do wrong things, and you don't need to believe everything they say automatically.  

Edited April 7, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[NeuroTypical]

Time for another fun homeschooling story!

Quote

Several years ago, one daughter had double foot surgery and was in a wheelchair for a while. If we ordered a handicap tag to hang in the window, by the time the tag showed up, she'd be out of the wheelchair. So we didn't bother. 

My wife parked in the Whole Foods parking lot, halfway down the row of cars, and was carrying our kid from car seat to wheelchair. She was accosted by some well-meaning dogooderer who felt the need to instruct my wife on proper parenting.

"You're not doing her any favors by treating her like she's normal, you know."

My wife ignored her. Didn't even make eye contact. Just started wheeling towards Whole Foods, even though the lady kept talking. But when the lady started following them, and started directing her comments to our daughter, my wife had enough. She turned and made one of her rare-but-effective aggressive "come at me bro" moves towards the lady and yelled "BACK OFF!!" The lady backpeadalled into a car and almost tripped and spilled her organic soy-hazelnut musli all over herself.

That event, and others like it, have prompted many discussions with our kids about what happens when cops get called, and what they should and shouldn't do in various situations. My wife rocks.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

Pitchforks?

 

[NeuroTypical]

Never overlook a good torch at a pitchfork convention. 

[Vort]

22 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

it is a homeschool, private homeschool

 

21 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

but I see what you are saying, I work and we can't afford the time or money for us doing it ourselves , we have some other special needs kids too

The point is not to shame you. The point is to correct your perception.

If you are homeschooling, then you call all the shots. You decide what the children study. You decide where they study it. You decide if they're going on a trip. If you decide yes, then you decide where, whether it's the Holy Land, Disneyland, or Land's End. You are in charge, because you are homeschooling.

What you appear to be doing is not homeschooling. Rather, you have generous neighbors who have agreed to privately tutor your children. In effect, you are sending them to a private school, funded primarily by your "rich" friends. This is a great blessing, one for which you should be (and probably are) grateful. But it's not homeschool. To be more precise -- it's not your homeschool. It's theirs. They call the shots, not you. Their home, their rules. You can agree to abide by their rules or you can go elsewhere. Now, they may be open to some negotiations, such as whether and how bedrooms are used for study areas. But that's up to them.

From my point of view, if I and my wife were providing a homeschooling experience for our children's friends, we would expect the children and their parents to completely support us in our efforts. If they were to have minor problems with this or that, they would be welcome to bring up such problems. But it would take approximately one time of parents really complaining about how we are teaching their children before I would tell them, "Good luck homeschooling your own children." (Maybe two. Sometimes I'm generous like that.)

[jewels8]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

 

The point is not to shame you. The point is to correct your perception.

If you are homeschooling, then you call all the shots. You decide what the children study. You decide where they study it. You decide if they're going on a trip. If you decide yes, then you decide where, whether it's the Holy Land, Disneyland, or Land's End. You are in charge, because you are homeschooling.

What you appear to be doing is not homeschooling. Rather, you have generous neighbors who have agreed to privately tutor your children. In effect, you are sending them to a private school, funded primarily by your "rich" friends. This is a great blessing, one for which you should be (and probably are) grateful. But it's not homeschool. To be more precise -- it's not your homeschool. It's theirs. They call the shots, not you. Their home, their rules. You can agree to abide by their rules or you can go elsewhere. Now, they may be open to some negotiations, such as whether and how bedrooms are used for study areas. But that's up to them.

From my point of view, if I and my wife were providing a homeschooling experience for our children's friends, we would expect the children and their parents to completely support us in our efforts. If they were to have minor problems with this or that, they would be welcome to bring up such problems. But it would take approximately one time of parents really complaining about how we are teaching their children before I would tell them, "Good luck homeschooling your own children." (Maybe two. Sometimes I'm generous like that.)

They have been really nice friends for a  long time and share similiar values

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You don't have them in homeschool because their parents are not the teachers.  You have them in a private school which happens to be in someone's home.  You can't treat it like a homeschool.  You have to treat it like a private school.  And that costs money.

If you're not paying anything to this other family, then you've got free babysitters who are willing to do you some favors.  If you don't like the way they're doing it, then you can just take them back and teach them at home.

Homeschool is if you or your husband are teaching your children.

it is a homeschool, private homeschool

 

[zil]

35 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Let's give the Australian a break

Arm, leg, or neck?  Back costs extra.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Arm, leg, or neck?  Back costs extra.

Is that what happened to our gardener? @zil, seriously, I told you to take it easy on the staff. 

[mrmarklin]

OP I don’t know where you live, and that’s important when it comes to whether or not the public school is adequate. 

In my opinion, home schooling by definition omits a critical part of personal development , and that is social interaction with peers, and learning how to deal with the associated problems. 

When one thinks about life, it really is a series of decisions and problem solving. And no one is an island.  

The problem you have in your house is that your wife seems fairly ignorant, and she cannot teach what she doesn’t know. Your kids need to get out more.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

In my opinion, home schooling by definition omits a critical part of personal development , and that is social interaction with peers, and learning how to deal with the associated problems. 

I don't know if you've read through the thread or not yet to know how invalid your statement here is -- but...at the risk of repeating that which has already been said, your opinion implies 2 things that are flatly false. 1: That "schooling" is the only means of having social interaction with peers and, 2: That home schooling has no options for this. Both of these false ideas render opinions like the one you've stated here invalid.

7 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

And no one is an island.  

This is a truth. So why is public schooling necessary then? One is not, and cannot be, an island -- even being home schooled.

It's like some people view home schooling as the locking of a child away in a room and feeding them through a slot in the door. Like home schooling parents are evil witches who have hidden their daughter away in a tower, and the only means she has for any life is to let down her hair for the prince.

[mrmarklin]

On 4/6/2018 at 9:36 AM, Backroads said:

I've actually heard too many private school horror stories.

But I do support their existence simply because people can shop around for private schools. (Not all require tests or good grades, quite a few are specialized, etc)

What I do hate is parents automatically assuming a school is better simply because they're private.

I don't think I'd ever teach in one simply because the pay generally sucks.

Biggest single advantage of private school is that behavioral problems are simply not tolerated. In addition a certain minimum of parent participation is required. My experience is with Catholic/Christian schools..

[mrmarklin]

On 4/6/2018 at 1:58 PM, Vort said:

Which is why I always take my six-year-olds to a whorehouse, then to a crackhouse. They need to understand the realities of life.

Most people wait until the boys are 16.

[mrmarklin]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't know if you've read through the thread or not yet to know how invalid your statement here is -- but...at the risk of repeating that which has already been said, your opinion implies 2 things that are flatly false. 1: That "schooling" is the only means of having social interaction with peers and, 2: That home schooling has no options for this. Both of these false ideas render opinions like the one you've stated here invalid.

This is a truth. So why is public schooling necessary then? One is not, and cannot be, an island -- even being home schooled.

It's like some people view home schooling as the locking of a child away in a room and feeding them through a slot in the door. Like home schooling parents are evil witches who have hidden their daughter away in a tower, and the only means she has for any life is to let down her hair for the prince.

You live in Utah in a largely homogeneous community of similar beliefs.   You don’t understand the sociality of people in many other parts of the world. Or here in the US.

my kids grew up with no Mormon neighbors. In fact, our neighborhood had few children at all. They were able to interact with Mormons primarily at church and not much more until they were able to drive.  By that time the boys had non Mormon girlfriends, because that’s what was available. Had they been homeschooled, they would have had largely only family interaction. Nothing wrong with that!  Im a fun guy!

my wife is a fairly social person, but please don’t judge the social availability by the standards of Utah Valley.  School was an important social learning experience for all my children. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by mrmarklin

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

You don’t understand the sociality of people in many other parts of the world. Or here in the US.

How could you possibly know that?

[mrmarklin]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

How could you possibly know that?

Because you live in Saratoga Springs UT.

[mrmarklin]

I’m really agnostic as to home schooling. I’m just pointing out a hazard as I see it. 

While the OP is doing home schooling, he didn’t paint an attractive picture. 

[NeuroTypical]

3 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

In my opinion, home schooling by definition omits a critical part of personal development , and that is social interaction with peers, and learning how to deal with the associated problems. 

Sure are lots of people from Australia on the board today...

 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, mrmarklin said:

I’m really agnostic as to home schooling. I’m just pointing out a hazard as I see it.

Which is reasonable. But when someone with experience in the area says that the hazard you perceive is not real, or overblown, or something, stubbornly maintaining your opinion doesn't really make much sense. And telling someone in Saratoga Springs that his Utah location makes his opinion invalid isn't very convincing. I live near Seattle, and I'm largely in agreement with TFP.

1 hour ago, mrmarklin said:

While the OP is doing home schooling, he didn’t paint an attractive picture. 

Funny how our perceptions are different. I found the picture he painted quite attractive indeed. My original homeschooling ideas had some of the same origins, and though things have not gone as I had originally envisioned, I believe my children are much better off for having been homeschooled to the extent they were (are).

[mordorbund]

 

22 hours ago, mordorbund said:

On 4/6/2018 at 8:40 PM, MormonGator said:

I haven't read the entire thread, but have any of us been homeschooled? Why don't we talk to them? 

Back in early January I posted in @pam's Moses 5 thread about Cain. I mentioned in passing that I was homeschooled. That statement was apparently so controversial that the entire thread has been deleted.