Repentance after death


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8 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Of course they are. They are within the covenant one makes.

7 You will discover in this quotation that the books were opened; and another book was opened, which was the book of life; but the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works; consequently, the books spoken of must be the books which contained the record of their works, and refer to the records which are kept on the earth. And the book which was the book of life is the record which is kept in heaven; the principle agreeing precisely with the doctrine which is commanded you in the revelation contained in the letter which I wrote to you previous to my leaving my place—that in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven.
            8 Now, the nature of this ordinance consists in the power of the priesthood, by the revelation of Jesus Christ, wherein it is granted that whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Or, in other words, taking a different view of the translation, whatsoever you record on earth shall be recorded in heaven, and whatsoever you do not record on earth shall not be recorded in heaven; for out of the books shall your dead be judged, according to their own works, whether they themselves have attended to the ordinances in their own propria persona, or by the means of their own agents, according to the ordinance which God has prepared for their salvation from before the foundation of the world, according to the records which they have kept concerning their dead. (D&C 128:7-8)

I will kindly assume it wasn't intentional, but you are conflating two different meanings of the word "works." My question was regarding works that are DEED/Actions, whereas the scripture you quoted is in reference to works that are ORDINANCES. The later works are, as explained in D&C 128:7-8, recorded by the church, and if they aren't recorded by the church, then they are not recorded in heaven. In other words, ordinances not performed  and recorded under the auspices of the authorized priesthood, will have no bearing beyond this life.

However. works that are good deeds and actions need not be, and typically are not recorded by the Church, and thus are not relevant to the scripture you quoted. Otherwise, since they are not recorded by the church, then one would have to conclude from D&C 128 that they would have no bearing beyond this life--which would contradict what you said above, if not also the scripture I quoted. Rather, the deed and actions are recorded on the fleshly tablets of the heart and soul, which also will be a part of the Book of Life out of which we are to be judged.

With that correction taken care of, we are now back to my earlier question. Let me rephrase it so as to avoid further confusion: "How are good works (i.e. deeds such as feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, taking in strangers, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and those in prison) rewarded to those honorable men in heaven that you believe will receive the same fate as Sons of Perdition?

The question is still tricky given Mt. 25:34-46.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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32 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Not really because God cant allow the least degree of sin. Without even discussing the degrees of glory lets look at it again. We must be cleansed from all our sins, not 1/3, or 3/4 or even 99/100. So, for those on the left hand all of their sins are heaped upon them because they havent repented. On the other hand you have the righteous who are cleansed 100% from all sin. On a light scale, such as yours, where are those wo are saved if unrepented sins represent darkness? If they are all forgiven then no darkness is in them. I think the big hangup is the belief that God will save all sorts of sinners who have varrying levels of darkness in them. But the scriptures state otherwise. Christ presents a spotless kingdom before God, not one that has a couple stains, or a few, or many. Spotless means without blemish. It means perfect. Our problem is we have a hard time believing all the saved will repent of all their sins and become perfect in order to be saved. Thats our true hangup. We are stuck in the dogma that its not possible for Christ to really present a truly "spotless" kingdom to the Father. And so we marvel. But the Lord has said-

25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;
            26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
            27 I say unto you, unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off. (Mosiah 27:25-27)

God the Father dwells in the Celestial Kingdom, which is where there is no sin or darkness. He doesn't not dwell in the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms, nor in outer darkness, where some degree of "sin" and darkness (i.e. diminished levels of glory) are allowed..As such, your objection is negated, leaving the salient analogy as valid and sound, if not also informative to non-dogmatists

And, by the way, the reference to spotless in D&C 76:107, may reasonably be viewed as in reference to Christ, rather than the "kingdom" or kingdoms" themselves, and his perfect fulfillment of his Father's will in overcoming and troddening the winepress alone, which earned him the crown of glory mentioned in verse 108..

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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1 hour ago, wenglund said:

I will kindly assume it wasn't intentional, but you are conflating two different meanings of the word "works." My question was regarding works that are DEED/Actions, whereas the scripture you quoted is in reference to works that are ORDINANCES. The later works are, as explained in D&C 128:7-8, recorded by the church, and if they aren't recorded by the church, then they are not recorded in heaven. In other words, ordinances not performed  and recorded under the auspices of the authorized priesthood, will have no bearing beyond this life.

However. works that are good deeds and actions need not be, and typically are not recorded by the Church, and thus are not relevant to the scripture you quoted. Otherwise, since they are not recorded by the church, then one would have to conclude from D&C 128 that they would have no bearing beyond this life--which would contradict what you said above, if not also the scripture I quoted. Rather, the deed and actions are recorded on the fleshly tablets of the heart and soul, which also will be a part of the Book of Life out of which we are to be judged.

With that correction taken care of, we are now back to my earlier question. Let me rephrase it so as to avoid further confusion: "How are good works (i.e. deeds such as feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, taking in strangers, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and those in prison) rewarded to those honorable men in heaven that you believe will receive the same fate as Sons of Perdition?

The question is still tricky given Mt. 25:34-46.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I take it you didnt catch the nuance. The saving ordinances and covenants we make contain within them promises to act- to mourn with those who mourn, comfort those who need comfort, give charity, etc. the ordinances and covenants mean norhing without the actions that go along with them. Thus, our deeds- helping others, etc, are part of our covenants- what validates them. I was hoping you would catch the nuance. "Good works" thus fall under the covenant relationship we make with God and the ordinances are the sign we make for those actions. In the temple, the covenants we make in the endowment cover all our physical actions as well. 

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48 minutes ago, wenglund said:

God the Father dwells in the Celestial Kingdom, which is where there is no sin or darkness. He doesn't not dwell in the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms, nor in outer darkness, where some degree of "sin" and darkness (i.e. diminished levels of glory) are allowed..As such, your objection is negated, leaving the salient analogy as valid and sound, if not also informative to non-dogmatists

And, by the way, the reference to spotless in D&C 76:107, may reasonably be viewed as in reference to Christ, rather than the "kingdom" or kingdoms" themselves, and his perfect fulfillment of his Father's will in overcoming and troddening the winepress alone, which earned him the crown of glory mentioned in verse 108..

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

A few issues with this. In the end, all of the saved are completely cleansed from all sin. The kingdom Christ presents is the "people" Christ saves from hell. They are all spotless. When I have more time I will list the myriads of scripture priving this doctrine is fact.

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20 I say unto you, can ye think of being saved when you have yielded yourselves to become subjects to the devil?
            21 I say unto you, ye will know at that day that ye cannot be saved; for there can no man be saved except his garments are washed white; yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain, through the blood of him of whom it has been spoken by our fathers, who should come to redeem his people from their sins.
            22 And now I ask of you, my brethren, how will any of you feel, if ye shall stand before the bar of God, having your garments stained with blood and all manner of filthiness? Behold, what will these things testify against you?
            23 Behold will they not testify that ye are murderers, yea, and also that ye are guilty of all manner of wickedness?
            24 Behold, my brethren, do ye suppose that such an one can have a place to sit down in the kingdom of God, with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob, and also all the holy prophets, whose garments are cleansed and are spotless, pure and white?
            25 I say unto you, Nay; except ye make our Creator a liar from the beginning, or suppose that he is a liar from the beginning, ye cannot suppose that such can have place in the kingdom of heaven; but they shall be cast out for they are the children of the kingdom of the devil. (Alma 5:20-25)

14 Now I say unto you that ye must repent, and be born again; for the Spirit saith if ye are not born again ye cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye may be washed from your sins, that ye may have faith on the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, who is mighty to save and to cleanse from all unrighteousness. (Alma 7:14)

17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not. (D&C 29:17)

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—
            41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;
            42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;
            
            43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. (D&C 76:40-43)

 

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4 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I take it you didnt catch the nuance. The saving ordinances and covenants we make contain within them promises to act- to mourn with those who mourn, comfort those who need comfort, give charity, etc. the ordinances and covenants mean norhing without the actions that go along with them. Thus, our deeds- helping others, etc, are part of our covenants- what validates them. I was hoping you would catch the nuance. "Good works" thus fall under the covenant relationship we make with God and the ordinances are the sign we make for those actions. In the temple, the covenants we make in the endowment cover all our physical actions as well. 

I will take this as a tacit admission that you were incorrect in quoting D&C 128:7-8 in relation to DEEDS and ACTIONS, particularly given that they aren't recorded by the Church.

That having been said, it wasn't the nuance I had trouble with but your reading into the scriptures things that not only weren't there, but things that defied the context. While it is true that DEEDS and ACTIONS  are needed to make covenants alive rather than dead, just as with faith, neither the scripture I cited, nor its broader context, mentioned anything about covenants, let alone gave any indication that it was limited to covenant relationships.  In fact, the broader context was in relation to "all nations." In other words, DEEDS and ACTIONS  in general will be a means by which "all nations" will be judged and separated to the left hand and right hand of the shepherd. 

With this additional correction in mind, let me ask once again:  ""How are good works (i.e. deeds such as feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, taking in strangers, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and those in prison) rewarded to those honorable men from "all nations" in heaven that you believe will receive the same fate as Sons of Perdition?"

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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5 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

A few issues with this. In the end, all of the saved are completely cleansed from all sin. The kingdom Christ presents is the "people" Christ saves from hell. They are all spotless. When I have more time I will list the myriads of scripture priving this doctrine is fact.

If you are going to wrest the "myriad of scripture" from their context, idiosyncratically force your own restricted meaning of various words (like "heaven" and "hell" and "saved" and "works",  and "kingdoms," etc.) as you have done with the relevant passage in Section 76 as well as other scriptures cited on this and related threads, then don't bother since it will do nothing to magically turn your personal opinion into fact.

Instead, it may prove more productive for you to correctly answer the question I have been re-asking, particularly since it might help you to see things (new light and knowledge) that have long been in your blind spot.

Granted, based on past experience, there is little to no chance of that, but since you are a child of God, and a seemingly decent fellow, at least I am willing to give it one more try.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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38 minutes ago, wenglund said:

If you are going to wrest the "myriad of scripture" from their context, idiosyncratically force your own restricted meaning of various words (like "heaven" and "hell" and "saved" and "works",  and "kingdoms," etc.) as you have done with the relevant passage in Section 76 as well as other scriptures cited on this and related threads, then don't bother since it will do nothing to magically turn your personal opinion into fact.

Instead, it may prove more productive for you to correctly answer the question I have been re-asking, particularly since it might help you to see things (new light and knowledge) that have long been in your blind spot.

Granted, based on past experience, there is little to no chance of that, but since you are a child of God, and a seemingly decent fellow, at least I am willing to give it one more try.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I have already said that it doesnt matter what one did- if they were kind and honorable, if they didnt repent and get baptized then they must be cast out. Its the classic case of failing to meet the requirement for salvation. This is a well established principle in scripture.

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9 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I have already said that it doesnt matter what one did- if they were kind and honorable, if they didnt repent and get baptized then they must be cast out. Its the classic case of failing to meet the requirement for salvation. This is a well established principle in scripture.

In other words, you believe that that good and honorable though unbaptized men WILL lose their reward, contrary to what is said in Matt 10:42,  D&C 58:28, and  D&C 84:90.

See, I told you it was a trick question. The binary view (particularly one that is narrowly interpreted, rigid, and dogmatic) of post mortality doesn't work when considered in light of the nuanced aspects of justice and mercy and the irrevocable law decreed in heaven (D&C 130:20). Rendering the same judgement to Mother Teresa as that given to Adolf Hitler literally screams injustice., which is why we have been given the new light and knowledge of D&C 76

But, it is clear that you are not prepared to receive it, and so I won't persist in trying--at least for now.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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28 minutes ago, wenglund said:

In other words, you believe that that good and honorable though unbaptized men WILL lose their reward, contrary to what is said in Matt 10:42,  D&C 58:28, and  D&C 84:90.

See, I told you it was a trick question. The binary view (particularly one that is narrowly interpreted, rigid, and dogmatic) of post mortality doesn't work when considered in light of the nuanced aspects of justice and mercy and the irrevocable law decreed in heaven (D&C 130:20). Rendering the same judgement to Mother Teresa as that given to Adolf Hitler literally screams injustice., which is why we have been given the new light and knowledge of D&C 76

But, it is clear that you are not prepared to receive it, and so I won't persist in trying--at least for now.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I dont know any other way to say it but this- It is an absolute MUST that a person repents and is baptized or they can in nowise be saved from an eternal hell. This is a foundational principle of the gospel. There is no other way mankind can be saved. This is very well established in scripture. This is even one of our foundational beliefs as recorded in the Articles of Faith-

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
            4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There is a common fallacy with members in the church that believe repentance and baptism is not required to be saved from hell. The scriptures state otherwise. Christ himself states otherwise-

32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
            33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.

            34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. (3 Nephi 11:33-34)

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List of 10 fallacies LDS members believe in regarding salvation from hell that I find problematic.

1. Mankind can be saved from hell without repenting.

2. Mankind can suffer for their own sins themselves (like Christ suffered) and be cleansed through that suffering.

3. God will eventually forgive sinners without compliance to ordinances and covenants.

4. God will save some from hell who havent repented from all their sins.

5. There will be different degrees of righteous and wicked souls found in heaven.

6. The wicked in spirit prison who are saved will be compelled to repent in spirit prison but will not truly embrace nor desire righteousness.

7. Everyone will be judged at final judgment by their actions in mortality regardless if they repented of it and been forgiven of it by God.

8. The timing and circumstances of accepting the gospel in the spirit world eternally decides the degree of forgiveness and rewards one will inherit.

9. One can be saved from hell just by acknowledging that Christ is the Savior.

10. Temple ordinances performed vicariously for the dead are only for those who are hearing it for the first time in the spirit world who would have gladly accepted the gospel if they heard it in mortality.

Edited by Rob Osborn
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11 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I dont know any other way to say it but this- It is an absolute MUST that a person repents and is baptized or they can in nowise be saved from an eternal hell. This is a foundational principle of the gospel. There is no other way mankind can be saved. This is very well established in scripture. This is even one of our foundational beliefs as recorded in the Articles of Faith-

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
            4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There is a common fallacy with members in the church that believe repentance and baptism is not required to be saved from hell. The scriptures state otherwise. Christ himself states otherwise-

32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
            33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.

            34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. (3 Nephi 11:33-34)

Can't say I didn't try. Carry on....

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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The fate of those who heard the gospel but who rejected it will depend on whether or not they really understood what they were rejecting when they rejected it. If two missionaries knock on your door and offer to share a message with you, and you decline the offer, that doesn't mean you have blown your chance to accept the gospel, unless you somehow knew from previous study and/or discussion what you were rejecting. 

As for progressing from one kingdom to another, if it is possible--and there are a number of early, and a few modern, GA statements that suggest it is--it would likely be a very long and painful process. But, why take the risk? Why not just repent in this life?

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I am amazed at the depth individuals go to justify their view of things thinking such view is final.  We are supposed to believe that there is more to be revealed concerning the Kingdom of G-d.  Is it a sin for someone to believe they have figured it all out?  And what happens to those that continue to sin and have no clue that they are sinning?

I also submit concerning those that think they know what will go on at the final judgment – they are lying to themselves (which is a sin).  There is a reason why the final judgment is not yet.  For those that think they have figured out the final judgment – why are you putting it off – do it now!  Then tell us how it went.  I am personally skeptical of those that claim to know everything and yet remain with us in the flesh.

 

The Traveler

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4 hours ago, mikegriffith said:

The fate of those who heard the gospel but who rejected it will depend on whether or not they really understood what they were rejecting when they rejected it. If two missionaries knock on your door and offer to share a message with you, and you decline the offer, that doesn't mean you have blown your chance to accept the gospel, unless you somehow knew from previous study and/or discussion what you were rejecting. 

As for progressing from one kingdom to another, if it is possible--and there are a number of early, and a few modern, GA statements that suggest it is--it would likely be a very long and painful process. But, why take the risk? Why not just repent in this life?

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.

33 These (obviously including those who were in transgression, having rejected the prophetswere taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost. (D&C 138)

When D&C 138 was added to the LDS canon in 1978, it was a real game-changer because for the first time If was revealed to the Church that the ordinances of baptism for the remission of sins and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost are available to those who rejected the gospel of Christ while in the flesh. And why not? After all, how many thousands are there who were eventually baptized after first rejecting the gospel message multiple times while in the flesh? And how many hundreds are there who eventually joined the Church years after the Holy Ghost first testified to them that the Church is true. Simply put, too many of us have made death an artificial barrier to genuine change and heartfelt repentance.for the dead.

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53 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Yeah...that danged Book of Mormon. Creating those "artificial" barriers.

Many leaders of the Church have taught that the Book of Mormon expression “this life” refers to what we call the mortal probation, which includes the time we spend in the spirit world after death prior to our resurrection and the final judgement. If this weren’t true, D&C 138 would make zero sense.  

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41 minutes ago, Jersey Boy said:

Many leaders of the Church have taught that the Book of Mormon expression “this life” refers to what we call the mortal probation, which includes the time we spend in the spirit world after death prior to our resurrection and the final judgement. If this weren’t true, D&C 138 would make zero sense.  

It would make sense in light of vs 59.

And the spirit world is clearly part of the probation for those who didn't have the opportunity in life. So no conflict there. 

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Help me out here, Traveler.  I believe you're giving two conflicting ideas. So, please clarify.

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

I am amazed at the depth individuals go to justify their view of things thinking such view is final. 

Is it a sin for someone to believe they have figured it all out?

The first statement seems to show frustration at people who believe they've got the answer.

The second statement seems to justify those who believe they've got the answer.

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5 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

Simply put, too many of us have made death an artificial barrier to genuine change and heartfelt repentance.for the dead.

I agree. I would also like to add to others in the forum a few more bits. And it stands as a major roadblock to understanding the truth and how far reaching the atonement is. Bruce R. McConkie with his seven deadly heresies speech was one of those roadblocks that were put up with the no second chance theory-

"There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed."

I disagree with this idea. The reason being explained in my twins analogy-

Two twins grow up together, both active members of the Catholic faith. After many years however both fall away from their religion and pick up bad habits. On many occasions LDS missionaries are sent to them. Sometimes they talk to them and show intetest but nothing towards actual interest or baptism, honorable men for the most part but complacent in their life and beliefs. This continues for decades and both twins are middle aged.. LDS missionaries kind of give up hope. One night both brothers go out drinking at the local bar. After a night out they dont realize they are pretty wasted. They leave and one brother drives, both are drunk. On that particular night a young family is returning home from a vacation. The twins car broadsides them at a high rate of speed. In the accident both drivers die along with a daughter leaving the other twin and the remaining family members alive although in critical condition. 

After spending several years in rehab learning how to walk the twin who survived is so distraught over the ordeal that he decides to change. He does what he can financially for the family who was hit feeling a sense of responsibilty to them. They forgive him openly. He becomes good friends with them and finds out they are LDS. He remembers all those years of the LDS missionaries coming to them. He decides again to take the lessons. 6 months later he is baptized. He becomes very active and gets callings. Several years pass and he meets a wondetful lady who was never married. They fall in love, get sealed to each other in the temple. In their old age they spend the rest of their lives serving missions for the church.

So, in this analogy, where it could have been either twin driving that night and dying, what is the final outcome of both twins? According to Bruce R. McConkie the one who died doesnt have much chance because he continually refused to accept the gospel and repent in mortality. For him he gets no second chance and is terrestrial bound. But, in the others case, lucky for him, he lived and was given that "second chance" so to speak and was completely forgiven and is celestial bound.

Now, whats wrong with this picture? Lots! This is why the no second chance theory is bogus. 

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5 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I agree. I would also like to add to others in the forum a few more bits. And it stands as a major roadblock to understanding the truth and how far reaching the atonement is. Bruce R. McConkie with his seven deadly heresies speech was one of those roadblocks that were put up with the no second chance theory-

"There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed."

I disagree with this idea. The reason being explained in my twins analogy-

Two twins grow up together, both active members of the Catholic faith. After many years however both fall away from their religion and pick up bad habits. On many occasions LDS missionaries are sent to them. Sometimes they talk to them and show intetest but nothing towards actual interest or baptism, honorable men for the most part but complacent in their life and beliefs. This continues for decades and both twins are middle aged.. LDS missionaries kind of give up hope. One night both brothers go out drinking at the local bar. After a night out they dont realize they are pretty wasted. They leave and one brother drives, both are drunk. On that particular night a young family is returning home from a vacation. The twins car broadsides them at a high rate of speed. In the accident both drivers die along with a daughter leaving the other twin and the remaining family members alive although in critical condition. 

After spending several years in rehab learning how to walk the twin who survived is so distraught over the ordeal that he decides to change. He does what he can financially for the family who was hit feeling a sense of responsibilty to them. They forgive him openly. He becomes good friends with them and finds out they are LDS. He remembers all those years of the LDS missionaries coming to them. He decides again to take the lessons. 6 months later he is baptized. He becomes very active and gets callings. Several years pass and he meets a wondetful lady who was never married. They fall in love, get sealed to each other in the temple. In their old age they spend the rest of their lives serving missions for the church.

So, in this analogy, where it could have been either twin driving that night and dying, what is the final outcome of both twins? According to Bruce R. McConkie the one who died doesnt have much chance because he continually refused to accept the gospel and repent in mortality. For him he gets no second chance and is terrestrial bound. But, in the others case, lucky for him, he lived and was given that "second chance" so to speak and was completely forgiven and is celestial bound.

Now, whats wrong with this picture? Lots! This is why the no second chance theory is bogus. 

The Book of Mormon’s “day of this life” refers to the mortal probation, a span of time which starts at birth in the flesh on earth, continues on through the post-mortal spirit world, and finally comes to an end with the resurrection of the body. Many LDS leaders have espoused this understanding of what is meant by “the day of this life,” including President Alvin R Dyer who declared:

The day of this life is from the day of mortal birth until the end of the period of the spirit world.  It is not at the end of this mortal life.  This is why we preach the gospel in the spirit world so that the work can be done for people vicariously here upon the earth, within the recognized day of this life.” (Alvin R Dyer)

Therefore, Elder McConkie was correct in his assertion. For long as there are operating LDS temples and sufficient numbers of temple recommend holding Latter-day Saints to perform the saving ordinances for and in behalf of the dead, the Lord will continue to judge the dead as if they had truly accepted the gospel in the flesh while they live according to God’s commandments in the spirit world. 

Edited by Jersey Boy
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