Missionary Numbers - stats, ugh.


NeedleinA
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4 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

As a church we focus on the importance of getting as much education as possible, this can easily explain any stigma associated with a youth joining the military at the "enlisted" level of service. I too would try to sway my sons away from joining the military if they only wanted to do so as an enlisted member. Can I see Mormons trying to sway youth away from this, yes, but not as a function of avoiding the military, but rather a function of them needing to get an education/degree and entering as a commissioned officer instead.

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about the military, what's the difference between "enlisted" and "commissioned"? I know there is one.

Edited by MormonGator
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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Agreed. To be clear, I wasn't necessarily asking in terms of "I don't know', but more rhetorically. I think the answer is obvious enough that the question makes the point.

Our youth are clearly being influenced by the carnality of the world.

The purpose of the questions is meant to lead to the natural question that follows: What do we do about it?

That answer should be obvious too, but varies, of course, based on one's role relative to the youth.

I read it as rehtorical. I was adding conversation. I have been working with youth for twenty years in church callings. I am currently the YM president in my ward. It truly amazes me just how much our program has shifted in the past year! The Lord is speaking. The answer I have received for my youth is to be with them more, and to combine into the larger group (all priest, teacher, and deacon age young men) more often for mutual. I also teach way more bluntly than ever before on issues of chastity and immorality. We have less focus on scouts and more focus on unity and priesthood duty. My goal isnt to send them all out on missions. My goal is to help each one individually make progress, no matter how small that progress may appear. 

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7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about the military, what's the difference between "enlisted" and "commissioned"? I know there is one.

Here is quick easy quote off the Army's website Gator:

Quote

What’s the difference between enlisted and Officer?

Enlisted Soldiers are the backbone of the Army. They have specific specialties within an Army unit. Officers act as managers to those Soldiers. They plan missions, give orders, and assign Soldiers to tasks.

Officers = 4 yr or more college degrees
Enlisted = can enlist right out of high school, no college

Edited by NeedleinA
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5 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

My goal isnt to send them all out on missions. My goal is to help each one individually make progress, no matter how small that progress may appear. 

I think I understand you intention saying this, but your goal should still be to send every young man on a mission. The Lord requires it of us. 

But a goal is not always met.

”for this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man”

truth is that God will not accomplish his goal 100%

Edited by Fether
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Guest MormonGator
Just now, NeedleinA said:

Here is quick easy quote off the Army's website Gator:

Officers = 4 yr or more college degrees
Enlisted = can enlist right out of high school, no college

Thanks. I don't know that much about the military. I've heard the terms (Enlisted, Officer, commissioned) before I don't know the differences. 

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3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Thanks. I don't know that much about the military. I've heard the terms (Enlisted, Officer, commissioned) before I don't know the differences. 

No problem.
Officer = commissioned (same thing)
Enlisted = NCO (non-commissioned officer)

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Just now, Fether said:

I think Ininderstand you intentnin saying this, but your goal should still be to send every young man on a mission. The Lord requires it of us. 

But a goal is not always met.

”for this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man”

truth is that God will not accomplish his goal 100%

It cant be my goal. Honestly, in todays society, our culture and where we are heading, less and less are going on missions. If my end goal was to just send them all on missions I have already failed. We have to address the facts of where we are at and almost go into damage control in fighting back. Way too many marriages are failing, even by returned missionaries! Theres a much larger threat at hand. My goal is to work with each one and help them progress- to never give up on them. With the new stricter missionary guidelines we are going to see less, not more, serve missions. We need to face reality and start addressing the main problems in our society.

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21 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I didn't say that.  Show me where I did and we can have a conversation about it.

This is what I was questioning:

On 4/11/2018 at 8:39 AM, omegaseamaster75 said:

...who live and die by the rules in many cases to the detriment of the people they are serving.

 

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Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

This is what I was questioning:

 

I don't see were I said obedient missionaries hurt missionary work. 

Some rules hurt the work, and we have trained our missionaries to follow these rules. I gave the example of the 5pm dinner rule. This rules hurts missionary work in my opinion. The obedient missionaries do not I should have worded differently. 

In fairness I was more of a rebel on my mission and if they had the 5pm dinner rule I would have blown it off.

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11 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

It cant be my goal. Honestly, in todays society, our culture and where we are heading, less and less are going on missions. If my end goal was to just send them all on missions I have already failed. We have to address the facts of where we are at and almost go into damage control in fighting back. Way too many marriages are failing, even by returned missionaries! Theres a much larger threat at hand. My goal is to work with each one and help them progress- to never give up on them. With the new stricter missionary guidelines we are going to see less, not more, serve missions. We need to face reality and start addressing the main problems in our society.

I agree with your analysis, but not your solution.  just because life is getting more difficult and people as a whole are making worse and worse decisions does not mean we should change our goal from the prescribed commandment that all able young men are to serve missions to “let’s teach them to be good”

The threat is the idea that the words of the prophets are not God’s commandments and that God’s word can be easily swayed based on our individual interpretation. We are only aiding the threat when we back off our push of what has been asked by our prophets.

We can’t aid in then raising of a generation that believes all things are relative to ourselves.

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14 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

It cant be my goal. Honestly, in todays society, our culture and where we are heading, less and less are going on missions. If my end goal was to just send them all on missions I have already failed. We have to address the facts of where we are at and almost go into damage control in fighting back. Way too many marriages are failing, even by returned missionaries! Theres a much larger threat at hand. My goal is to work with each one and help them progress- to never give up on them. With the new stricter missionary guidelines we are going to see less, not more, serve missions. We need to face reality and start addressing the main problems in our society.

I think we need to consider this in terms of stewardship.

My goal, for those I have stewardship over, is to help prepare them to both desire and be worthy to server a full time mission.

Never giving up on them and addressing the main problems in our society fits right into that.

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2 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I don't see were I said obedient missionaries hurt missionary work. 

Some rules hurt the work, and we have trained our missionaries to follow these rules. I gave the example of the 5pm dinner rule. This rules hurts missionary work in my opinion. The obedient missionaries do not I should have worded differently. 

In fairness I was more of a rebel on my mission and if they had the 5pm dinner rule I would have blown it off.

I agree with the idea that some rules are less effective -- perhaps even end up being theoretically detrimental in some cases. But I also believe that obedience brings blessings, and that is even more true when it comes to missionary work. The missionary who strictly follows all "rules" will be more effective as a missionary than the one who blows them off, even if the rules are theoretically less than perfect.

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1 minute ago, Fether said:

I agree with your analysis, but not your solution.  just because life is getting more difficult and people as a whole are making worse and worse decisions does not mean we should change our goal from the prescribed commandment that all able young men are to serve missions to “let’s teach them to be good”

The threat is the idea that the words of the prophets are not God’s commandments and that God’s word can be easily swayed based on our individual interpretation. We are only aiding the threat when we back off our push of what has been asked by our prophets.

We can’t aid in then raising of a generation that believes all things are relative to ourselves.

This is a tough subject haha. I agree, that darn 5:00 rule got in the way a lot and probably 40% of my meals I had after 5:00. Being who I am, I felt incredibly guilty for it xD but at the same time... working 4-7 and then spending the dark hours of 7:30-8:30 with a family was far more productive than spending 5-6 with a family only to go back outside in the dark was awful.

Honestly, I think the rule was harmful, but I also feel that the missionaries that willfully broke it on a regular basis were more harmful than the missionaries that were obedient to it. I’m a strong believer in obedience bringing blessings.

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1 minute ago, Fether said:

I agree with your analysis, but not your solution.  just because life is getting more difficult and people as a whole are making worse and worse decisions does not mean we should change our goal from the prescribed commandment that all able young men are to serve missions to “let’s teach them to be good”

The threat is the idea that the words of the prophets are not God’s commandments and that God’s word can be easily swayed based on our individual interpretation. We are only aiding the threat when we back off our push of what has been asked by our prophets.

We can’t aid in then raising of a generation that believes all things are relative to ourselves.

Im actually acting under the direction of my bishop. He has shifted our goal and focus to prepare our youth for entering the temple and receiving their endowment. 

This isnt backing off. This is adjusting to the current of the stream and working within the opposing currents to move forward. "serving a mission" is a notable goal and I wish that were truly all of my youths goal. But, the bigger picture needs to generally be helping each one progress in whatever circumstance they are in. Itvmeans Im working hard on the ones that dont end up serving missions as much as the ones who do.

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think we need to consider this in terms of stewardship.

My goal, for those I have stewardship over, is to help prepare them to both desire and be worthy to server a full time mission.

Never giving up on them and addressing the main problems in our society fits right into that.

Yes. The first scout group I ever had as a scout master twenty years ago were composed of 9 boys. Of those original 9 only 2 served missions. All of the other 7 ended up in problems with the law, drug abuse, marriage problems, etc. Most of those boys were either adopted or came from broken homes. I knew at that time most of them would fall away from the church or wouldnt join for many years (about half werent members). Serving a mission for most of them wasnt really even an option. What was my goal? To help them, be there for them. Its quite the opposite now. I have 7 priests of which most of them will probably serve. But, the big issue still looms- I feel they arent prepared for the temple, arent prepared for marriage and fatherhood. Most interesting to tjis is that my bishops main goal is working with 4 of them who arent active to help them. Their chance of serving missions? Slim to none- two hate the church, one is special needs, and the other is impossible to get ahold of. 

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1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

Yes. The first scout group I ever had as a scout master twenty years ago were composed of 9 boys. Of those original 9 only 2 served missions. All of the other 7 ended up in problems with the law, drug abuse, marriage problems, etc. Most of those boys were either adopted or came from broken homes. I knew at that time most of them would fall away from the church or wouldnt join for many years (about half werent members). Serving a mission for most of them wasnt really even an option. What was my goal? To help them, be there for them. Its quite the opposite now. I have 7 priests of which most of them will probably serve. But, the big issue still looms- I feel they arent prepared for the temple, arent prepared for marriage and fatherhood. Most interesting to tjis is that my bishops main goal is working with 4 of them who arent active to help them. Their chance of serving missions? Slim to none- two hate the church, one is special needs, and the other is impossible to get ahold of. 

I think I understand. My only hang up is this. I had a companion who grew up in his older brother’s home who was a pretty big time drug dealer in AZ. Difficult to get along with but holy cow did he do amazing things on his mission.

One of the best zone leaders I ever had was hated in his stake because he had took the virginity of many of the young women. He too did amazing things on his mission and was an amazing leader that taught me so much about what a good missionary is.

Another great missionary that exhibited more love than  could ever hope for grew up in Vegas, had a tattoo on his thigh and was huge into partying before his mission. He was and is one of the most kind and bold people I know. True liver of charity.

I could probably think of more examples if I thought hard enough, but I won’t.

these are definitely exceptions. But my fear is that there are leaders that look at youth and say “they will never serve a mission so let’s try to get them to church as often as we can”.

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One of the best zone leaders I ever had was hated in his stake because he had took the virginity of many of the young women. He too did amazing things on his mission and was an amazing leader that taught me so much about what a good missionary is.

Another great missionary that exhibited more love than  could ever hope for grew up in Vegas, had a tattoo on his thigh and was huge into partying before his mission. He was and is one of the most kind and bold people I know. True liver of charity.

I could probably think of more examples if I thought hard enough, but I won’t.

 

 

 

And nowadays with the raised bar, At least two of those missionaries would never be allowed to serve a mission no matter what. I may be wrong though.

Edited by paracaidista508
typo
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2 minutes ago, paracaidista508 said:

Um last I heard if you fornicate prior to mission you are not going no matter what. Again I may be wrong. Am I?

Someone higher up the chain than me might have to answer that.

But I doubt it. Seriously, highly doubt it.

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Standard PreMission questions

Looks like there is wiggle room :In reference to the law of chastity, have you always lived in accordance with what has been discussed? If not, how long ago did the transgression(s) occur? What have you done to repent?

https://www.lds.org/church/news/church-releases-standard-missionary-interview-questions?lang=eng

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