Sunday21

Laugh: You can’t have it both ways

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I know that I should not do this but...I was reading the comments below a video about religion. One of the comments was complaining about how the LDS church treated former members. It was a long and rambling complaint. At the beginning of the post. The person claimed that we shun former members. By the end of the post, the person claimed that we harass former members. Now really, you can’t have this both ways! Too much attention or no attention: which is it?

I feel for the poor hometeacher or visiting teacher forced to call and try to make an appointment with inactives.  I have done this a few times myself. Not easy. Anyone reading this, never ever go alone to one of these visits. Whoo. An experience that still haunts me. Yikes! 

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We have a lot of former members in our ward.  One of them a bishop.  They're not shunned.  They show up to Church sometimes for special occasions of family members like a baby blessing and the ward goes all a-flutter super excited to see them.  Even those who talk bad about the Church on facebook gets this same a-flutter excitement when we meet them anywhere.  Yes, yes... maybe we do give too much attention but that's simply because LDS folks tend to be zealous about being member missionaries.

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12 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I know that I should not do this but...I was reading the comments below a video about religion. One of the comments was complaining about how the LDS church treated former members. It was a long and rambling complaint. At the beginning of the post. The person claimed that we shun former members. By the end of the post, the person claimed that we harass former members. Now really, you can’t have this both ways! Too much attention or no attention: which is it?

I feel for the poor hometeacher or visiting teacher forced to call and try to make an appointment with inactives.  I have done this a few times myself. Not easy. Anyone reading this, never ever go alone to one of these visits. Whoo. An experience that still haunts me. Yikes! 

The truth is that some people shun former members.  Others pester them a lot.  What that means is that this is not institutional or systemic.  It is just people being people.

That said, ideally, we're supposed to be much more welcoming than shunning.  And we're supposed to love, not pester.  But perhaps when we try to show love some people consider that pestering.  There are some people you just can't please.

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29 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

That said, ideally, we're supposed to be much more welcoming than shunning.  

The majority of LDS are so welcoming and loving that it's not really a problem. You'll see some former members complain about being shunned, and that's sad-but it might be more based on the behavior of the former member.

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I always found it amusing when former members complain about being shunned, after they quit coming to the one place they usually interact with other members. I know there's a lot of people I don't see outside of church functions just because we have different interests, and I'm active. If I stopped going, I'd never see them. When we, generic, make a decision we feel is unpopular in our social circle, we tend to assume everyone else's reactions are based on that decision when in reality we aren't nearly as important as we tend to think we are. For example, former member Bob waves to me in the restaraunt. I don't wave back. He immediately assumes "aha, Midwest LDS is shunning me for my decision!" If you look in my head, I'm zoned out imagining what it would be like if I lived in the Elder Scrolls Universe, and was a Dragonborn. So me being a dork, accidentally fulfils this guy's worldview. Not saying members can't be jerks sometimes, we are all fallen mortals after all, but I bet a lot of these interactions are harmless and people are misreading each other.

Edited by Midwest LDS

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10 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

I always found it amusing when former members complain about being shunned, after they quit coming to the one place they usually interact with other members. I know there's a lot of people I don't see outside of church functions just because we have different interests, and I'm active. If I stopped going, I'd never see them. When we, generic, make a decision we feel is unpopular in our social circle, we tend to assume everyone else's reactions are based on that decision when in reality we aren't nearly as important as we tend to think we are. For example, former member Bob waves to me in the restaraunt. I don't wave back. He immediately assumes "aha, Midwest LDS is shunning me for my decision!" If you look in my head, I'm zoned out imagining what it would be like if I lived in the Elder Scrolls Universe, and was a Dragonborn. So me being a dork, accidentally fulfils this guy's worldview. Not saying members can't be jerks sometimes, we are all fallen mortals after all, but I bet a lot of these interactions are harmless and people are misreading each other.

Added to this:

There are many people I get along well with...but the primary thing we relate on are principles of the gospel. I have several people who I am friends with but a great majority of our discussions are concerning the gospel. When and if they start talking sports or the like I lose interest. So what happens when one of these people abandon interest in the primary thing that made us friends?

Sure, I can politely feign interest in sports or some such. But generally speaking, if our interests don't otherwise align, if one of two individuals' primary views that made them friends does a 180 what do they expect the result to be?

A relative, for example, I used to really enjoy talking to. But the reason I was always so drawn to him was because our morality and ethics seemed to align so well. He really seemed to get it. Really seemed to think the same as me and my wife, etc. So we considered him a very good friend -- one of our favorite relatives. Then he turned away from the church and abandoned a great many of those morals and ethics. Now -- what do we talk about? Otherwise he's into some multi-marketing stuff and what-have-you. We're not interested in that. My interests are morals and ethics, web development, music, and movies, religion, etc. He doesn't seem to share any of those interests any more, and seems to find greater interest in talking about the failings of the church and pro-homosexual ideas. So now whenever we see him we're polite, shallowly conversational, and it's moderately uncomfortable.

Well...yeah....

Of course I wouldn't be surprised if on some ex-mormon forum somewhere he's telling everyone how once he left the church his family and friends all started shunning him.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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9 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

There are many people I get along well with...but the primary thing we relate on are principles of the gospel. I have several people who I am friends with but a great majority of our discussions are concerning the gospel. When and if they start talking sports or the like I lose interest. So what happens when one of these people abandon interest in the primary thing that made us friends?

Wow.  This is exactly me.

11 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

He doesn't seem to share any of those interests any more, and seems to find the greater interest in talking about the failings of the church and pro-homosexual ideas. So now whenever we see him we're polite, shallowly conversational, and it's moderately uncomfortable.

A similar thing happened with one of my good friends also.

12 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Of course I wouldn't be surprised if on some ex-mormon forum somewhere he's telling everyone how once he left the church his family and friends all started shunning him.

Exactly!

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2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Added to this:

There are many people I get along well with...but the primary thing we relate on are principles of the gospel. I have several people who I am friends with but a great majority of our discussions are concerning the gospel. When and if they start talking sports or the like I lose interest. So what happens when one of these people abandon interest in the primary thing that made us friends?

Sure, I can politely feign interest in sports or some such. But generally speaking, if our interests don't otherwise align, if one of two individuals' primary views that made them friends does a 180 what do they expect the result to be?

A relative, for example, I used to really enjoy talking to. But the reason I was always so drawn to him was because our morality and ethics seemed to align so well. He really seemed to get it. Really seemed to think the same as me and my wife, etc. So we considered him a very good friend -- one of our favorite relatives. Then he turned away from the church and abandoned a great many of those morals and ethics. Now -- what do we talk about? Otherwise he's into some multi-marketing stuff and what-have-you. We're not interested in that. My interests are morals and ethics, web development, music, and movies, religion, etc. He doesn't seem to share any of those interests any more, and seems to find greater interest in talking about the failings of the church and pro-homosexual ideas. So now whenever we see him we're polite, shallowly conversational, and it's moderately uncomfortable.

Well...yeah....

Of course I wouldn't be surprised if on some ex-mormon forum somewhere he's telling everyone how once he left the church his family and friends all started shunning him.

That's another excellent point. Most people that I know who have left the church, not all but most and admittedly anecdotally, drink in the traditions of the world. My step brother is in that condition. He's an RM who is now living with his girlfriend, flirting with atheism, and a regular drinker. We didn't have tons in common before he changed, but we had a lot to talk about from a gospel perspective. Now we don't even have that and there just isn't much to say right now. I'm friendly to him, we all make dumb decisions in life and people change and repent all the time I would never shut him out, but just like you and your relative @The Folk Prophet there just isn't much left to talk about. I'm sure it makes him feel awkward around me now.

Edited by Midwest LDS

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1 hour ago, Midwest LDS said:

That's another excellent point. Most people that I know who have left the church, not all but most and admittedly anecdotally, drink in the traditions of the world. My step brother is in that condition. He's an RM who is now living with his girlfriend, flirting with atheism, and a regular drinker. We didn't have tons in common before he changed, but we had a lot to talk about from a gospel perspective. Now we don't even have that and there just isn't much to say right now. I'm friendly to him, we all make dumb decisions in life and people change and repent all the time I would never shut him out, but just like you and your relative @The Folk Prophet there just isn't much left to talk about. I'm sure it makes him feel awkward around me now.

Why don’t these people just get married? What on eartH? You are sleeping with this person. Why not marry them?  

I don’t get it!

I have a friend who had a child with her boyfriend. He was willing to marry. She said No. She tried other flavours. They broke up. She cried for about a year because she lost the love of her life. So why not get marry in the first place and stick to one flavour! 

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Just now, Sunday21 said:

Why don’t these people just get married? What on eartH? You are sleeping with this person. Why not marry them?  

I don’t get it!

I have a friend who had a child with her boyfriend. He was willing to marry. She said No. She tried other flavours. They broke up. She cried for about a year because she lost the love of her life. So why not get marry in the first place and stick to one flavour! 

That's always been my question as well. How is getting married more of a commitment than having a child? Why do you want to sign a lease or buy a house with someone who could take off the next day and say "see ya" because they didn't like the way you looked at them last night? I just don't get it.

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59 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Why don’t these people just get married? What on eartH? You are sleeping with this person. Why not marry them?  

I don’t get it!

I have a friend who had a child with her boyfriend. He was willing to marry. She said No. She tried other flavours. They broke up. She cried for about a year because she lost the love of her life. So why not get marry in the first place and stick to one flavour! 

If I weren't a member, I would try different flavors, but I certainly wouldn't have a kid out of marriage.  That is just dumb.

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Just now, MormonGator said:

I don't get it either. My favorites are the ones who have matching tattoos, four kids together yet don't get married because they are "afraid of commitment". 

Yeah at that point, I mean that ink ain't going anywhere (without costly and painful medical procedures). That piece of paper has got to be easier than the tatoos...the kids too of course☺.

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1 minute ago, Midwest LDS said:

Yeah at that point, I mean that ink ain't going anywhere (without costly and painful medical procedures). That piece of paper has got to be easier than the tatoos...the kids too of course☺.

From what I've heard, laser removal of tattoos hurts more than the actual tattoos. I'd never get it, that's for sure. 

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5 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

That image sounds horrific. Man, I'm too much of a baby even around needles, that's a nightmare scenario for me right there.

So, um, how do you explain that tear drop tattoo you have under your left eye pal? 

 

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On 4/11/2018 at 6:29 AM, Sunday21 said:

The person claimed that we shun former members. By the end of the post, the person claimed that we harass former members.

Also, Joseph Smith was both a nefarious genius schemer putting intricate multi-year plans into play, and a no-account lazy scoundrel what nebber worked an honest day in his life.  

And the church in general is both created and led by man via the arm of flesh, as well as created and led by satan via evil luciferian supernatural power masquerading as angels.

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1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Also, Joseph Smith was both a nefarious genius schemer putting intricate multi-year plans into play, and a no-account lazy scoundrel what nebber worked an honest day in his life.  

And the church in general is both created and led by man via the arm of flesh, as well as created and led by satan via evil luciferian supernatural power masquerading as angels.

Someone has been talking to paracaidista...

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Just now, Sunday21 said:

Ok. I have to ask...what are these teardrop tattoos? Do they signify something?

I think it represents either murders committed or prison terms served. Usually it's a gang thing I believe.

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There can be symbolism in tattoos, but a good little mormon boy like me often doesn't speak the language to translate.

They tell me the flesh of your hand between thumb and forefinger, is a place to talk about your view of the world.  Supposedly, "(" followed by ")" means the world is full of tears, the afterlife will rock.  Reverse the order of the smiley/frowny, and you get the opposite worldview - grab your kicks now, because hell will stink.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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4 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Ok. I have to ask...what are these teardrop tattoos? Do they signify something?

There are a TON of urban legends about it and of course it means different things to different people but the reality is that the original meaning was pretty grim. It began as a prison tattoo  signifying that you were in jail for life, which usually means you've committed a very serious crime. 

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