Marrying a Non Member


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Guest MormonGator
2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Generally speaking, putting ones marriage first over worldly selfishness leads to a long and lasting marriage of true love. Separate bank accounts is generally a sign that the husband and wife aren't truly "one".

On the contrary, it helps many couples communicate better about money. 

It's always a challenge when we meet someone who has different ideas or philosophies than we do. Perhaps it would be best if we chalked it up to "What works for them, works for them" instead of "They must be deficient in some way because they don't do things the same way I do."  

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6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

As a former Single Stake rep, I have met a lot of faithful single women. The demographic reality is that if they do not marry outside the church, they will not marry. Not marrying in this life has serious consequences. In my area, ministering sistering is, if not dead, certainly on life support. Being old childless and single is bleak. 

I often ponder what to do about the older single women. The over 40s and the older 50s. Many of them are have low incomes and no cars. No car in my area often means inactive as the bus system here is expensive and inconvenient. Some denominations, but not ours, have a bus. 

In general, if a member marries out, they become less active but the alternative is stark.

There is quite a movement in the larger Christian world to affirm the value of older single woman. Ironically, many cultures do so much better. Korea has their "Bible women." Even the NT had widows who were commissioned to pray. I know there is a theology about eternal families at play here, but in my perhaps incomplete book, a single godly woman, who dedicates herself to gospel service and prayer, can find much fulfillment--far more than the one who marries a gentile, hoping to nurse/love/nag him into the kingdom.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

On the contrary, it helps many couples communicate better about money. 

It's always a challenge when we meet someone who has different ideas or philosophies than we do. Perhaps it would be best if we chalked it up to "What works for them, works for them" instead of "They must be deficient in some way because they don't do things the same way I do."  

Generally speaking, what I am saying is all true.

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Guest MormonGator
1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

From what I have witnessed its a general fact

 

And therein lies the greater problem. The truths of the world are not based on what @Rob Osborn has personally witnessed. Rob Osborn might be right on this or that, but sometimes what Rob Osborn has observed is clouded by Rob Osborns already held thoughts and views. The same goes for all of us of course. 

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7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

And therein lies the greater problem. The truths of the world are not based on what @Rob Osborn has personally witnessed. Rob Osborn might be right on this or that, but sometimes what Rob Osborn has observed is clouded by Rob Osborns already held thoughts and views. The same goes for all of us of course. 

Couples who enter into and keep separate bank accounts is usually a sign of lack of trust and seeing their relationship input equally.

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4 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Couples who enter into and keep separate bank accounts is usually a sign of lack of trust and seeing their relationship input equally.

I know many people who have separate bank accounts while having zero trust issues, myself included.  I don't really see my relationship as "equal" though.  My wife is a much better person than I am.  I don't know why she's with me.

We have our names on each other's accounts, but use our own.  I think it's because we trust each other so much that this works.  We manage our accounts differently and the styles don't match. This makes things easier.

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1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

There is quite a movement in the larger Christian world to affirm the value of older single woman. Ironically, many cultures do so much better. Korea has their "Bible women." Even the NT had widows who were commissioned to pray. I know there is a theology about eternal families at play here, but in my perhaps incomplete book, a single godly woman, who dedicates herself to gospel service and prayer, can find much fulfillment--far more than the one who marries a gentile, hoping to nurse/love/nag him into the kingdom.

Such a movement is valuable because it boosts sell-esteem. I am glad for it. I wonder, however, if it is ethical to encourage women not to marry outside the church. The ministering program has collapsed where I live and older women are in dire straits. We can do little to help them. The needs are greater than our capacity to fill.

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@Sunday21 If my suspicion is correct--that scripture calls upon us to marry within the faith--then it is not only ethical, but mandatory, to call upon our older single members to remain celibate, rather than be unequally yoked. It may be the church will need to funnel more resources to care for those who's obedience has left them dependent. My own church faces a similar dilemma. In our early years ministers truly believed Jesus would return very very soon. The served faithfully, and chose not participate in our country's Social Security scheme--again, believing the church's heavy emphasis on the soon coming return of Jesus. So, now we are called upon to support the Aged Ministers Fund. Even though hindsight shows us their decisions were hasty, the results were wonderful (many churches built, many souls converted). Likewise, if women are finding themselves destitute in their older years because they remained faithful to the admonition not to be unequally yoked, members will find great blessing in caring for them now.

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2 hours ago, Grunt said:

I know many people who have separate bank accounts while having zero trust issues, myself included.  I don't really see my relationship as "equal" though.  My wife is a much better person than I am.  I don't know why she's with me.

We have our names on each other's accounts, but use our own.  I think it's because we trust each other so much that this works.  We manage our accounts differently and the styles don't match. This makes things easier.

I think it even extends to things like car titles, proprty deeds and house loans, etc.  I guess Im sonewhat from the older generation way of marriage philosophy where once married pretty much all things become equal ownership.

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51 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I think it even extends to things like car titles, proprty deeds and house loans, etc.  I guess Im sonewhat from the older generation way of marriage philosophy where once married pretty much all things become equal ownership.

You're confusing separate with unequal.  Are you suggesting that because my wife has her car in her name I didn't buy it for her?  That I have no stake in it?  We're married.  We're one.   

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6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

@Sunday21 If my suspicion is correct--that scripture calls upon us to marry within the faith--then it is not only ethical, but mandatory, to call upon our older single members to remain celibate, rather than be unequally yoked. It may be the church will need to funnel more resources to care for those who's obedience has left them dependent. My own church faces a similar dilemma. In our early years ministers truly believed Jesus would return very very soon. The served faithfully, and chose not participate in our country's Social Security scheme--again, believing the church's heavy emphasis on the soon coming return of Jesus. So, now we are called upon to support the Aged Ministers Fund. Even though hindsight shows us their decisions were hasty, the results were wonderful (many churches built, many souls converted). Likewise, if women are finding themselves destitute in their older years because they remained faithful to the admonition not to be unequally yoked, members will find great blessing in caring for them now.

Dear Prison Chaplin, I admire your faith.

The plain fact is that these elderly sisters are not receiving as much as a ride to church. At least in my area. We ask that they look first to their families.

Well guess what? Elderly celibates. No family. 

Edited by Sunday21
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6 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Couples who enter into and keep separate bank accounts is usually a sign of lack of trust and seeing their relationship input equally.

Lots of reasons for separate accounts. Especially with both spouses working outside the home. 

I live in a community property state. What’s mine is hers and what’s hers is mine. So the supposed separation is academic. 

Im a big advocate of separation of checking accounts. My wife and myself are polar opposites as to how funds should be managed. 

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On 9/19/2018 at 8:26 AM, Rob Osborn said:

From what I have witnessed its a general fact

 

We’ve been married very happily for 22 years,  wife and I have always had separate accounts.    I  get my allowance in my account, this small amount is money I don’t have to account for where it goes(usually half of it goes to the kids).  My wife pays all the bills.   I pay very little attention to her account.    She’s a debt free saver just like myself.   I do manage our long term investments, but she has access to all.    She also has access to all email/social media/whatever accounts.    Nothing hidden.......honesty, love and respect makes a marriage.   Yes LOVE! 

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On 9/19/2018 at 8:36 AM, Rob Osborn said:

Couples who enter into and keep separate bank accounts is usually a sign of lack of trust and seeing their relationship input equally.

Hogwash, I think you have trust issues with your spouse.    As far as titles, etc..... we have titles that are in her name, my name, our name, one home  in her name and the other has ours on the note.     No biggie,  we’re married for the long haul, it’s why we got married.    I really have no care to what some piece of paper says,  and it’s only money.    

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6 hours ago, Pressing Forward said:

Hogwash, I think you have trust issues with your spouse.    As far as titles, etc..... we have titles that are in her name, my name, our name, one home  in her name and the other has ours on the note.     No biggie,  we’re married for the long haul, it’s why we got married.    I really have no care to what some piece of paper says,  and it’s only money.    

It's not a one size fits all. I said "generally". 

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On 9/19/2018 at 7:24 PM, mrmarklin said:

Lots of reasons for separate accounts. Especially with both spouses working outside the home. 

I live in a community property state. What’s mine is hers and what’s hers is mine. So the supposed separation is academic. 

Im a big advocate of separation of checking accounts. My wife and myself are polar opposites as to how funds should be managed. 

Hum...the words "polar opposites"...

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On 9/19/2018 at 3:09 PM, Rob Osborn said:

I think it even extends to things like car titles, proprty deeds and house loans, etc.  I guess Im sonewhat from the older generation way of marriage philosophy where once married pretty much all things become equal ownership.

There are reasons (liability) to have titles and deeds listed separate or in an LLC under different individual legal control.  In fact, to do so requires greater trust than joint and equal portions.  For example, in many states the liability in a auto accident is limited if the owner of the vehicle is not driving it at the time of the accident - So if a couple own two cars it is best that the car most often driven by the wife be titled in the name of the husband - and vise versa.  There are similar games one ought to play if they own a business to protect their private home.  Not so much from business liability but personal liability because of net worth.  Our private home is titled to a family trust.

I am a great believer in what ever a couple can make work for them is what they should continue to do.  Just because others are doing something is a very poor excuse for anybody to do anything.  My wife and I have several personal and business accounts at several different banks and savings and loans.  But I have a strong dislike (hatred) of money and I just do not deal with it.  My wife spends and controls all the money (including what is in my accounts) - she loves to watch over such things and she is very good at it.  I have my own checking accounts (that include credit cards) but I do not use them except in extreme emergencies.  I certainly to not keep track of money where ever it is nor do I ever spend money or ever want to - I hate shopping.  My wife handles the money and I have no interest (pun not intended) in what is done with any of it - with the one exception of tithing - and the only time I review that is at tithing settlement.  

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

There are reasons (liability) to have titles and deeds listed separate or in an LLC under different individual legal control.  In fact, to do so requires greater trust than joint and equal portions.  For example, in many states the liability in a auto accident is limited if the owner of the vehicle is not driving it at the time of the accident - So if a couple own two cars it is best that the car most often driven by the wife be titled in the name of the husband - and vise versa.  There are similar games one ought to play if they own a business to protect their private home.  Not so much from business liability but personal liability because of net worth.  Our private home is titled to a family trust.

I am a great believer in what ever a couple can make work for them is what they should continue to do.  Just because others are doing something is a very poor excuse for anybody to do anything.  My wife and I have several personal and business accounts at several different banks and savings and loans.  But I have a strong dislike (hatred) of money and I just do not deal with it.  My wife spends and controls all the money (including what is in my accounts) - she loves to watch over such things and she is very good at it.  I have my own checking accounts (that include credit cards) but I do not use them except in extreme emergencies.  I certainly to not keep track of money where ever it is nor do I ever spend money or ever want to - I hate shopping.  My wife handles the money and I have no interest (pun not intended) in what is done with any of it - with the one exception of tithing - and the only time I review that is at tithing settlement.  

 

The Traveler

In general...

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Guest MormonGator
4 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I point is that 'in general" the rising generation of today who want separate bank accounts is due primarily to the shift in not trusting each other or a lack of seeing each other as equal or "one".

@Rob Osborn, you are way off in this. 

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11 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I point is that 'in general" the rising generation of today who want separate bank accounts is due primarily to the shift in not trusting each other or a lack of seeing each other as equal or "one".

Then in such a case - the separate bank account are not really a problem but rather are symptoms that have nothing to do with the cause.   And for communication purposes - I am thinking it would be better to center on why someone marries someone they do not trust.

 

The Traveler

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