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I am currently dating a Non Member. I am in love with her. We've been dating for a really long time and know everything about eachother. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to join the church, but completely supports me to continue to be active in it. We've talked about things like marriage and children and tithing that would affect our relationship because of a religious difference. Idk if this is normally taboo for a Mormon guy like me to say but, I don't want to have kids. If I do, then I'll be happy with them, but... I don't plan on having any. And we talked about that as well and we feel the same way. Certain things I stay far away from for religious reasons such as drugs, alcohol, and pornography//bad movies , She stays away from for other reasons. Although anonymous I don't wish to share those reasons, but I know that she could/would never want to drink, or do drugs or anything like that. I want to marry her. And, we haven't tied any knots yet, but I know she wants/plans on marrying me as well. After reading some of the posts about things like this it seems like marrying a Non Member is some crazy sin. Is it really a sin? Also, I've always been taught that sex is between a legally and lawfully wedded man and wife. If we got married, though not in the temple it would be legal and lawful. So what's wrong with marrying her? I feel really good, and happier than I've ever been before when I think about marrying her. I have prayed about my relationship with her, and, all I can tell is that I'm happy with her. And honestly, I'd like to believe that later on in life she might want to be baptized, and if not I will still love her the same and be happy the same. I want to be with her, even if that means I can't make it into the highest part of the celestial kingdom. 

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7 hours ago, Jeeshway said:

I am currently dating a Non Member. I am in love with her. We've been dating for a really long time and know everything about eachother. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to join the church, but completely supports me to continue to be active in it. We've talked about things like marriage and children and tithing that would affect our relationship because of a religious difference. Idk if this is normally taboo for a Mormon guy like me to say but, I don't want to have kids. If I do, then I'll be happy with them, but... I don't plan on having any. And we talked about that as well and we feel the same way. Certain things I stay far away from for religious reasons such as drugs, alcohol, and pornography//bad movies , She stays away from for other reasons. Although anonymous I don't wish to share those reasons, but I know that she could/would never want to drink, or do drugs or anything like that. I want to marry her. And, we haven't tied any knots yet, but I know she wants/plans on marrying me as well. After reading some of the posts about things like this it seems like marrying a Non Member is some crazy sin. Is it really a sin? Also, I've always been taught that sex is between a legally and lawfully wedded man and wife. If we got married, though not in the temple it would be legal and lawful. So what's wrong with marrying her? I feel really good, and happier than I've ever been before when I think about marrying her. I have prayed about my relationship with her, and, all I can tell is that I'm happy with her. And honestly, I'd like to believe that later on in life she might want to be baptized, and if not I will still love her the same and be happy the same. I want to be with her, even if that means I can't make it into the highest part of the celestial kingdom. 

It's not a sin to marry a non-member. But marriage is far more complicated than identifying what isn't sin, and eternal life and exaltation are far more desirable than simply identifying what isn't sin. Decide what you want more than anything else and then you will be able to identify who or what will empower and enable you to obtain it.

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7 hours ago, Jeeshway said:

I am currently dating a Non Member. I am in love with her. We've been dating for a really long time and know everything about eachother. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to join the church, but completely supports me to continue to be active in it. We've talked about things like marriage and children and tithing that would affect our relationship because of a religious difference. Idk if this is normally taboo for a Mormon guy like me to say but, I don't want to have kids. If I do, then I'll be happy with them, but... I don't plan on having any. And we talked about that as well and we feel the same way. Certain things I stay far away from for religious reasons such as drugs, alcohol, and pornography//bad movies , She stays away from for other reasons. Although anonymous I don't wish to share those reasons, but I know that she could/would never want to drink, or do drugs or anything like that. I want to marry her. And, we haven't tied any knots yet, but I know she wants/plans on marrying me as well. After reading some of the posts about things like this it seems like marrying a Non Member is some crazy sin. Is it really a sin? Also, I've always been taught that sex is between a legally and lawfully wedded man and wife. If we got married, though not in the temple it would be legal and lawful. So what's wrong with marrying her? I feel really good, and happier than I've ever been before when I think about marrying her. I have prayed about my relationship with her, and, all I can tell is that I'm happy with her. And honestly, I'd like to believe that later on in life she might want to be baptized, and if not I will still love her the same and be happy the same. I want to be with her, even if that means I can't make it into the highest part of the celestial kingdom. 

If you love her then marry her. I married a nonmember because I loved her. She is now a member. We have been married almost 25 years now. Even if she didnt join and I had it to do over knowing that I would have still married her. Is it risky? Just remember, we all came here to this earth with the same goal in mind- to return to our Heavenly Father. Love is powerful, thats all I can say! Marry her.

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Marriage is a whole life and a whole eternity decision. Clearly you have some concerns and there is also an elephant in the room that you do not want to discuss. The choice of who to marry will affect your whole life and your eternity. Marrying outside the church is generally a bad decision. I suspect that if you were to break off with this woman and start living the gospel to the very best of your ability, you would find yourself making a much better decision in a year or two. 

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Just recognize that your wife would be marrying you for who you are now, not for who you might evolve into in the future.  If, down the road, the LDS church and its teachings start meaning more to you than they do at present—your fiancée/wife will be in an incredibly difficult and unfair position.  Don’t take it for granted that Mormonism will win the day.

My non-LDS cousin married an LDS guy about fifteen years ago, and his thought process was very similar to yours.  Their two daughters were baptized yesterday—as Methodists.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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27 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Just recognize that your wife would be marrying you for who you are now, not for who you might evolve into in the future.  If, down the road, the LDS church and its teachings start meaning more to you than they do at present—your fiancée/wife will be in an incredibly difficult and unfair position.  Don’t take it for granted that Mormonism will win the day.

My non-LDS cousin married an LDS guy about fifteen years ago, and his thought process was very similar to yours.  Their two daughters were baptized yesterday—as Methodists.

I recently learned of a changing situation of a member who married a non-Member.  At the time, non-Member knew member was and would continue active in the Church and would raise their children in the Church, and agreed to this arrangement.  Years later, non-member has since decided that member and children should not attend Church on Sunday, but spend the day having fun with non-member.  Thus, instead of the member changing, the non-member changed, and it is now a source of contention, making it exceedingly difficult for the member and children to remain active in Church.

For every happy ending I've heard of, I know of even more unhappy ones.

This is why I asked about what the girlfriend does by way of support.  If it's words only, that doesn't bode well.  If it includes participation, that probably bodes well.

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9 hours ago, Jeeshway said:

I want to . . . even if that means I can't make it into the highest part of the celestial kingdom.

Anything that fills in the blank is foolishness and pride.  While it appears that you believe and accept the doctrines of the restored gospel, you clearly either don't understand, or don't care about the principles of exaltation and eternal life.  With an attitude such as this, I can't imagine how you would have the fortitude to remain faithful and active in the Church in the face of marital strife.  Once you allow yourself to be persuaded that you are willing to accept less than the ultimate glory God is willing to offer you, then you begin down a true slippery slope.

Quote

. . . the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.
(2 Ne. 26:22)

RUN!  Not from this girl, but from your own natural man, and from anything that would lead you to believe such a thing as this!  You will find yourself in hell quicker than you know if you allow yourself to believe such things.  Even the elect will be deceived, even the elect can be led to make justifications.  Once again, I am not saying don't marry this girl, I am saying don't do anything that may lead you to, or continuously tempt you to compromise your values.  If ultimately that means don't marry this girl, then don't do it.

Edited by person0

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Ask the Lord. If she is right the Lord will confirm in all faithfulness. Dont listen to all of us in here- too much prejudice. If she is the one you are supposed to marry then marry her. If she isnt the one then dont. Ask God without wavering faith and He shall make manifest in your heart and mind all things.

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19 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Ask the Lord. If she is right the Lord will confirm in all faithfulness. Dont listen to all of us in here- too much prejudice. If she is the one you are supposed to marry then marry her. If she isnt the one then dont. Ask God without wavering faith and He shall make manifest in your heart and mind all things.

Rob, if you’re encouraging a person to take an action that, per orthodox LDS doctrine, may cost them their exaltation; then in the name of full disclosure shouldn’t you acknowledge that you personally subscribe to an unorthodox interpretation of Mormonism that suggests exaltation is more-or-less inevitable for everyone regardless of what they do in the here-and-now?

@Jeeshway, no one here is going to discourage you from praying.  What some of us *might* point out is that the whispering of the Spirit are easily shouted down by that stew of hormones, infatuation, half-blindness, urgency, insecurity, stubbornness, and randiness that our society calls “being in love”.  The Church’s teachings are what they are; and they exist as a cross-check against deception in every situation—including the situation in which you currently find yourself.  You should be very, very wary of anyone who suggests that Church counsel can be disregarded lightly.

If you don’t want exaltation, that’s your choice.  But don’t be banking on getting a mulligan down the road.  You have no doctrinal assurance of that.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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I think zil makes a good point. What does her support look like? It’s easy to say you will support while secretly hoping you will leave the church. And she may be agreeing to marriage because she sees you are already half way out the door. When someone sees an attitude that exaltation is worth giving up, it’s easy to use subtle manipulations to drive you further away from the church. I would encourage you to take your time on this decision. It warrants a great degree of thoughtfulness.

Edited by Connie

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Marriage is one the most important decisions in life to make. 

 

Marriage will either lead to some of the greatest moments of joy or some of the sharpest pains of heartache you will experience. 

 

There are ALWAYS unforseen occurrences that come about, no matter how thoroughly you plan your life. Differences of how you each deal with stress, how to spend finances when there isn't enough to pay all the bills, how you each deal with loss of family, possessions, and careers, and then deciding what moral decisions to make when faced with a myriad of choices all play into this decision of marital bliss/frustration. 

 

Please, make the decision prayerfully and with full intent to follow through with whatever the Lord answers. 

 

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10 hours ago, Jeeshway said:

I am currently dating a Non Member. I am in love with her. We've been dating for a really long time and know everything about eachother. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to join the church, but completely supports me to continue to be active in it. We've talked about things like marriage and children and tithing that would affect our relationship because of a religious difference. Idk if this is normally taboo for a Mormon guy like me to say but, I don't want to have kids. If I do, then I'll be happy with them, but... I don't plan on having any. And we talked about that as well and we feel the same way. Certain things I stay far away from for religious reasons such as drugs, alcohol, and pornography//bad movies , She stays away from for other reasons. Although anonymous I don't wish to share those reasons, but I know that she could/would never want to drink, or do drugs or anything like that. I want to marry her. And, we haven't tied any knots yet, but I know she wants/plans on marrying me as well. After reading some of the posts about things like this it seems like marrying a Non Member is some crazy sin. Is it really a sin? Also, I've always been taught that sex is between a legally and lawfully wedded man and wife. If we got married, though not in the temple it would be legal and lawful. So what's wrong with marrying her? I feel really good, and happier than I've ever been before when I think about marrying her. I have prayed about my relationship with her, and, all I can tell is that I'm happy with her. And honestly, I'd like to believe that later on in life she might want to be baptized, and if not I will still love her the same and be happy the same. I want to be with her, even if that means I can't make it into the highest part of the celestial kingdom. 

Problems and Risks of you scenario:

- No exaltation

- No eternal family

- You leaving the church or becoming inactive (which doesn’t matter if you don’t want exaltation and to have an eternal family)

- Losing the spirit because you are failing to follow prophetic counse (not to marry outside the church and to choose not to have children)

I mean... if you don’t want exaltation and the only reason you are keeping the commandments is because of the religion...might as well start drinking coffee and participating in minor sin.  If you don’t want to pass a class, why do the homework?

Also, fruit of the spirit is NOT happiness. In fact, I don’t know that the spirit will tell you a whole let because this has already been spoken of by prophets.

ie

Church leaders have consistently counseled young people to marry within the Church. As President Spencer W. Kimball pointed out, “Religious differences imply wider areas of conflict. Church loyalties and family loyalties clash. Children’s lives are often frustrated. … Without a common faith, trouble lies ahead for the marriage.” (The Miracle of Forgiveness, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1969, p. 240.)”

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/07/partners-in-everything-but-the-church?lang=eng

I have warned youth about the hazards of interfaith marriages—the sorrows and disillusionments which come from marrying out of the Church. But there seems to be a tendency on the part of many young people today to form their own opinions and their own conclusions to determine the right and the wrong of everything.”

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/10/the-importance-of-celestial-marriage?lang=eng

 

The ONLY way to justify this marriage and remain “active” in the church is to conclude that the prophets really are not speaking in behalf of God. 

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35 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Rob, if you’re encouraging a person to take an action that, per orthodox LDS doctrine, may cost them their exaltation; then in the name of full disclosure shouldn’t you acknowledge that you personally subscribe to an unorthodox interpretation of Mormonism that suggests exaltation is more-or-less inevitable for everyone regardless of what they do in the here-and-now?

@Jeeshway, no one here is going to discourage you from praying.  What some of us *might* point out is that the whispering of the Spirit are easily shouted down by that stew of hormones, infatuation, half-blindness, urgency, insecurity, stubbornness, and randiness that our society calls “being in love”.  The Church’s teachings are what they are; and they exist as a cross-check against deception in every situation—including the situation in which you currently find yourself.  You should be very, very wary of anyone who suggests that Church counsel can be disregarded lightly.

If you don’t want exaltation, that’s your choice.  But don’t be banking on getting a mulligan down the road.  You have no doctrinal assurance of that.

Im asking a person to pray and ask the Lord. If its the right girl then its the right girl. I married a nonmormon and it was the right answer to prayer. God knows all things.

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12 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Im asking a person to pray and ask the Lord.

But that’s only half-true, isn’t it, Rob?

Becaise you *also* wrote “Dont listen to all of us in here- too much prejudice.”

Why don’t you want the OP to listen to those of us who are re-stating the Church’s position?

Why don’t you want the OP to listen to the experiences of any mixed-religious marriages except your own?

What is it about Mormon orthodoxy that you consider so dangerous to the OP’s eternal happiness, that you are trying to get him to stop up his ears rather than hear any of it?

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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10 hours ago, Jeeshway said:

I am currently dating a Non Member. I am in love with her. We've been dating for a really long time and know everything about eachother. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to join the church, but completely supports me to continue to be active in it. We've talked about things like marriage and children and tithing that would affect our relationship because of a religious difference. Idk if this is normally taboo for a Mormon guy like me to say but, I don't want to have kids. If I do, then I'll be happy with them, but... I don't plan on having any. And we talked about that as well and we feel the same way. Certain things I stay far away from for religious reasons such as drugs, alcohol, and pornography//bad movies , She stays away from for other reasons. Although anonymous I don't wish to share those reasons, but I know that she could/would never want to drink, or do drugs or anything like that. I want to marry her. And, we haven't tied any knots yet, but I know she wants/plans on marrying me as well. After reading some of the posts about things like this it seems like marrying a Non Member is some crazy sin. Is it really a sin? Also, I've always been taught that sex is between a legally and lawfully wedded man and wife. If we got married, though not in the temple it would be legal and lawful. So what's wrong with marrying her? I feel really good, and happier than I've ever been before when I think about marrying her. I have prayed about my relationship with her, and, all I can tell is that I'm happy with her. And honestly, I'd like to believe that later on in life she might want to be baptized, and if not I will still love her the same and be happy the same. I want to be with her, even if that means I can't make it into the highest part of the celestial kingdom. 

i can only speak to the experiences of those with whom i interact/know well.

My opinion - marry someone who is good at their core, that you're happy with, and is happy with you.   A temple marriage/life in the church neither guarantees nor precludes a happy marriage.  Happy marriages where both people are equal partners are rare both in and out of the church.  If you're both confident the differences are OK and can be accepted/worked through, i'd go for it.

And the God and Jesus i know care more about who a person is than what church they do or do not attend - both in this life, and the next.  Though i know i am in the minority saying that.  

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For the record, I married a non-member.  Eventually, he was baptized.  I still would not recommend anyone else do it.  In fact, I think I have a better understanding of the risks and challenges than someone who hasn't done it.  Someone who married a non-member who never joined knows those risks and challenges better than those who haven't experienced it.  Etc. for all the other variations on member-non-member marriages.

The simple fact is that unless the collective experiences I've seen and heard reported (such as in these forums) are all wrong, the number of failures outweighs the number of successes.  This isn't necessarily a reason for one particular member not to marry one particular non-member, but it lends additional weight to the counsel to marry in the temple, and gives good reason for a person to consider carefully the lessons others have learned the hard way.

The other fact is that "being in love" is, by definition (and obviously to third parties) a state of blindness and irrationality.  If ever there was someone in need of listening to third parties, it's the person "in love" - of course, they're also one of the least likely to listen to third parties.

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1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

Ask the Lord. If she is right the Lord will confirm in all faithfulness. Dont listen to all of us in here- too much prejudice. If she is the one you are supposed to marry then marry her. If she isnt the one then dont. Ask God without wavering faith and He shall make manifest in your heart and mind all things.

Gotta say it -- baloney. God rarely tells people, "Marry this woman" or "Don't marry that one." That's our decision, and God respects our agency. A man has the right to marry whomever he wishes (as long as she's legally marriageable and agrees to marry him); and as Paul teaches, marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Bruce R. McConkie gave a great talk shortly after being ordained to the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, called "Agency or Inspiration: Which?", in which he addressed this very question. Among many great insights -- it's a great talk, and you should read it, or better yet listen to it (hit the headphones icon at the top of the talk) -- McConkie said this:

Quote

How do you choose a wife? I’ve heard a lot of young people from Brigham Young University and elsewhere say, “I’ve got to get a feeling of inspiration. I’ve got to get some revelation. I’ve got to fast and pray and get the Lord to manifest to me whom I should marry.” Well, maybe it will be a little shock to you, but never in my life did I ever ask the Lord whom I ought to marry. It never occurred to me to ask him. I went out and found the girl I wanted; she suited me; I evaluated and weighed the proposition, and it just seemed a hundred percent to me as though this ought to be. Now, if I’d done things perfectly, I’d have done some counseling with the Lord, which I didn’t do; but all I did was pray to the Lord and ask for some guidance and direction in connection with the decision that I’d reached. A more perfect thing to have done would have been to counsel with him relative to the decision and get a spiritual confirmation that the conclusion, which I by my agency and faculties had arrived at, was the right one.

I think McConkie knew what he was talking about.

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11 hours ago, Jeeshway said:

Idk if this is normally taboo for a Mormon guy like me to say but, I don't want to have kids. If I do, then I'll be happy with them, but... I don't plan on having any.

You'll get the rewards that come with your decisions on this matter.

11 hours ago, Jeeshway said:

After reading some of the posts about things like this it seems like marrying a Non Member is some crazy sin. Is it really a sin? Also, I've always been taught that sex is between a legally and lawfully wedded man and wife. If we got married, though not in the temple it would be legal and lawful. So what's wrong with marrying her?

You seem to be conflating all sins about marriage as part of the law of chastity.  Marrying a non-member is not a violation of the Law of Chastity.  But we've been counseled as honorable men of the priesthood to find a mate who is faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  A non-Mormon would not qualify from a Mormon's viewpoint.

This counsel may be considered a commandment or it may be considered sound advice from wise men of God.  But either way, it will be better if you follow it than if you don't.

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23 minutes ago, Vort said:

Gotta say it -- baloney. God rarely tells people, "Marry this woman" or "Don't marry that one." That's our decision, and God respects our agency. A man has the right to marry whomever he wishes (as long as she's legally marriageable and agrees to marry him); and as Paul teaches, marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Bruce R. McConkie gave a great talk shortly after being ordained to the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, called "Agency or Inspiration: Which?", in which he addressed this very question. Among many great insights -- it's a great talk, and you should read it, or better yet listen to it (hit the headphones icon at the top of the talk) -- McConkie said this:

I think McConkie knew what he was talking about.

Indeed...  The scriptures reaffirm the idea that to receive revelation... the studying it out and making an choice comes first... then you should take your choice to the Lord for confirmation.  That is how we are suppose to seek revelation.

Thus part of the studying it out is to search what the scriptures and modern prophets have said on the subject and to get to know the person, and find out what other people's experiences have been, all valid forms of study in this matter.  Then after you studied it out you make a choice.   You personally choose to take that risk or you personally choose not to. 

With that choice made then you approach the Lord and say "Is this the right choice?"  That is when the Lord will answer and then you may have another choice.. Do it your way or do it the Lord's way...  Or you might get confirmation of your existing choice is correct

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I'm a always a bit nervous when I see these "Should I marry a non member/member" posts. 

The reality is that life is messy and it's not linear. It never is. You can marry a member at age 22 and she'll lose her faith at 30. You can marry a Catholic at age 25 and he'll become LDS at age 34. Sure, some people (probably the majority) will be the same person they were at 21 that they are at 55 (at least in some aspects) and you of course have every right to pick and choose who to marry based on whatever factors you decide. But be careful. Marriage is the greatest thing in the world, and you shouldn't base it on just one thing. 

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4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I'm a always a bit nervous when I see these "Should I marry a non member/member" posts. 

The reality is that life is messy and it's not linear. It never is. You can marry a member at age 22 and she'll lose her faith at 30. You can marry a Catholic at age 25 and he'll become LDS at age 34. Sure, some people (probably the majority) will be the same person they were at 21 that they are at 55 (at least in some aspects) and you of course have every right to pick and choose who to marry based on whatever factors you decide. But be careful. Marriage is the greatest thing in the world, and you shouldn't base it on just one thing. 

We marry based on what we know today.  We know today whether the person we're marrying shares the same faith as we do.  What happens because of the unknowns of tomorrow are trials for tomorrow, not decisions of today.

Can you find a good marriage outside the faith?  Absolutely.  Could a non-member spouse eventually be converted? Absolutely.  But the balance of probability says it is less likely.

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

But that’s only half-true, isn’t it, Rob?

Becaise you *also* wrote “Dont listen to all of us in here- too much prejudice.”

Why don’t you want the OP to listen to those of us who are re-stating the Church’s position?

Why don’t you want the OP to listen to the experiences of any mixed-religious marriages except your own?

What is it about Mormon orthodoxy that you consider so dangerous to the OP’s eternal happiness, that you are trying to get him to stop up his ears rather than hear any of it?

Why is the answer to "go pray unto the Lord" so offensive to you. Do you deny the power of God?

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