The tokens already appear

[Vort]

Listening to this last General Conference's final session this morning, I sang along with the intermediate hymn, "Redeemer of Israel". What do you suppose these words mean?

"As children of Zion, good tidings for us -- the tokens already appear!"

(By the way, singing the final two verses of that hymn should be mandatory.)

Edited May 8, 2018 by Vort

[Connie]

Perhaps it's a reference to the temple. Of note, this is one of the hymns we have in our current hymnal that Emma used in the first LDS hymnal which was printed while the Kirtland Temple was being built. It is one of William W. Phelps adaptations of a Christian hymn.

[Traveler]

10 minutes ago, Vort said:

Listening to this last General Conference's final session this morning, I sang along with the intermediate hymn, "Redeemer of Israel". What do you suppose these words mean?

"As children of Zion, good tidings for us -- the tokens already appear!"

(By the way, singing the final two verses of that hymn should be mandatory.)

 

Not sure if this is along the same idea – but in the German language the word (forgot the German word – but as we LDS token) in essence the German translation has the same meaning as the license plate used to demonstrate official ownership and justify legal use of an automobile.

 

The Traveler

[Fether]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

Listening to this last General Conference's final session this morning, I sang along with the intermediate hymn, "Redeemer of Israel". What do you suppose these words mean?

"As children of Zion, good tidings for us -- the tokens already appear!"

(By the way, singing the final two verses of that hymn should be mandatory.)

Putting aside temple jargon, tokens tend to be physical manifestations of truth. “As children of Zion, good tidings to us”. There are plenty of tokens, or physical manifestations, of this truth.

[Connie]

Perhaps this is an instance where the 1828 dictionary would actually be helpful. For the definition of token it says, "A sign; something intended to represent or indicate another thing or an event." It also mentions some Biblical tokens such as Noah's rainbow and the blood on the doors of the Hebrews in Egypt. Maybe Phelps is referencing the signs of the second coming of the Savior and His millennial reign. The two end verses may indicate such.

[Vort]

I think "the tokens" refer to the signs of Christ's coming, good tidings for us in which we can rejoice. I kind of think it's also an oblique reference to the tokens of Christ's crucifixion. Assuming the first, I wonder which tokens of Christ's coming the hymn refers to?

[Connie]

20 minutes ago, Vort said:

I think "the tokens" refer to the signs of Christ's coming, good tidings for us in which we can rejoice. I kind of think it's also an oblique reference to the tokens of Christ's crucifixion. Assuming the first, I wonder which tokens of Christ's coming the hymn refers to?

I think so, too.

The restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, the preaching of the gospel to other nations, and the building of a temple are all likely candidates based on the time period. Phelps could have been thinking of any or all of these signs.

The restoration is an ongoing process. We have even more tokens of Christ’s coming today. This is still a wonderful, significant hymn! One of my favorites!

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Listening to this last General Conference's final session this morning, I sang along with the intermediate hymn, "Redeemer of Israel". What do you suppose these words mean?

"As children of Zion, good tidings for us -- the tokens already appear!"

(By the way, singing the final two verses of that hymn should be mandatory.)

This original hymn in which these verses appear was written by Joseph Swain (1761-1796), a Baptist minister in England decades before the restoration. William W. Phelps later changed some of the words, but not those particular words. The Baptists were persecuted both in England and America, so the 'tokens" may be a reference to 2 Thessalonians 1 (note verses 5 and 6).

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Vort said:

I think "the tokens" refer to the signs of Christ's coming, good tidings for us in which we can rejoice. I kind of think it's also an oblique reference to the tokens of Christ's crucifixion. Assuming the first, I wonder which tokens of Christ's coming the hymn refers to?

That is all part of it.

Verse 1: Basically, an address to the Savior.  Our praise of him.
Verse 2: Recognizing His promise to His covenant people.
Verse 3: The description of our trials we've suffered and burdens we've born.  But then the hope of freedom and peace...
Verse 4: Your quote, and the promise of redemption through an inheritance of the Kingdom.
Verse 5: A call to grant us the promises previously mentioned.
Verse 6: And our covenant to praise His name forever more.

Does anyone else see Chiasmus here?  V3 & 4 are parallel and contrast.  But the tokens appearing is the central line of the Chiasmus.

It means all that we've been discussing here. 

• We get on the road to discipleship which recognizes Him as our Savior (praise) because of a token impression through the Power of the Holy Ghost
• We make covenants (tokens) as signs of obedience to the Lord.
• We suffer (tokens) for His name's sake with hope in His promises.  Promises in the temple which come with additional tokens.
• We have been given tokens. We see tokens now.  We look forward to further tokens.  (9th AoF)
• We look forward to the Second Coming where we see the tokens in His hands and usher in the Millenium of His Earthly Reign (a token representation of even greater Celestial glory to come) where we will be servants in His Kingdom.
• We will eventually return the tokens / respond with tokens to obtain our Eternal Reward.
• We will then praise His name forevermore.

But that's just a guess.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Guest

[Connie]

34 minutes ago, CV75 said:

This original hymn in which these verses appear was written by Joseph Swain (1761-1796), a Baptist minister in England decades before the restoration. William W. Phelps later changed some of the words, but not those particular words. The Baptists were persecuted both in England and America, so the 'tokens" may be a reference to 2 Thessalonians 1 (note verses 5 and 6).

I'm not seeing any mention of tokens in the original. Not according to these sources anyway: 

https://hymnary.org/text/o_thou_in_whose_presence_my_soul_takes_d

https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/687

Good scripture, though. It definitely seems applicable to the early saints.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Connie

[CV75]

30 minutes ago, Connie said:

I'm not seeing any mention of tokens in the original. Not according to these sources anyway: 

https://hymnary.org/text/o_thou_in_whose_presence_my_soul_takes_d

https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/687

Good scripture, though. It definitely seems applicable to the early saints.

I believe you are correct! I think I misread this: https://www.kimballlarsen.com/2015/01/11/original-lyrics-for-redeemer-of-israel/ when I found both hymns listed in the same site you did: https://hymnary.org/person/Swain_Joseph

I won't be offended if @zil and @Vort remove your "Like" from my post!

Edited May 8, 2018 by CV75

[Connie]

22 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I believe you are correct! I think I misread this: https://www.kimballlarsen.com/2015/01/11/original-lyrics-for-redeemer-of-israel/ when I found both hymns listed in the same site you did: https://hymnary.org/person/Swain_Joseph

I won't be offended if @zil and @Vort remove your "Like" from my post!

Ha! Not a big deal.

That was a really interesting article. Some strong opinions there, for sure. But I had no idea that some of Phelps words had been changed from what he originally wrote. And how did I not know there was a PDF of Emma's hymnal! Had to download that! Thanks.