Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Lost Boy said: You are not an engineer are you? I am and have had the exact same discussion with myself. I don't have the answers. What I do believe is that for us there is just one God that matters... God the father. Where did the matter of the universe come from? Did God create it? Or just organize it? Who created the place God is from? Yup... you are not alone with those questions. What if God didn't even know where it all began... Science has an explanation back to a big bang, but really has nothing before that. Although it is interesting to contemplate about, it is essentially a fruitless exercise. Need to be concerned about the here and now. 2 How can you ask some of these questions that are so apart from some of the teachings of the Church and still label yourself LDS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, Grunt said: How can you ask some of these questions that are so apart from some of the teachings of the Church and still label yourself LDS? You don't know the first thing about me or what goes on in my head and my heart and yet you are able to judge me as harshly as you did. Interesting. BJ64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: You don't know the first thing about me or what goes on in my head and my heart and yet you are able to judge me as harshly as you did. Interesting. I don't know you. Neither did I judge you. I asked you a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Grunt said: I don't know you. Neither did I judge you. I asked you a question. Yes, you did judge me and then you lied about it. Yeah, I am not entertaining a troll. BJ64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: Yes, you did judge me and then you lied about it. Yeah, I am not entertaining a troll. Now you're just making things up to avoid answering a question that shouldn't be uncomfortable. I'm wondering who the troll really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Grunt said: Now you're just making things up to avoid answering a question that shouldn't be uncomfortable. I'm wondering who the troll really is. If you want to apologize and rephrase the question in a polite manner, I would be happy to answer. BJ64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Lost Boy said: If you want to apologize and rephrase the question in a polite manner, I would be happy to answer. No one is saying (or should be saying) that you are trolling my friend. You have some opinions that don't match those of everyone else here. That's fine, I do too. Hope you stay around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Lost Boy said: If you want to apologize and rephrase the question in a polite manner, I would be happy to answer. I'm sorry you chose to interpret my question as judgmental, so I'll rephrase it: Considering some of the beliefs you've supported in your posts, how do you reconcile being a member of the LDS faith when they appear to not be in harmony with some of the Church teachings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Grunt said: I'm sorry you chose to interpret my question as judgmental, so I'll rephrase it: Considering some of the beliefs you've supported in your posts, how do you reconcile being a member of the LDS faith when they appear to not be in harmony with some of the Church teachings? That is not an apology. BJ64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, MormonGator said: No one is saying (or should be saying) that you are trolling my friend. You have some opinions that don't match those of everyone else here. That's fine, I do too. Hope you stay around! I have no intention to go anywhere. I am not offended by someone like Grunt, but I am not going to entertain him either if he wants to be critical of me. BJ64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: That is not an apology. Of course it isn't. There is nothing to apologize for. Your misperceived offense doesn't rate an apology. You're just using that as an excuse to not answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Grunt said: I'm sorry you chose to interpret my question as judgmental, so I'll rephrase it: Considering some of the beliefs you've supported in your posts, how do you reconcile being a member of the LDS faith when they appear to not be in harmony with some of the Church teachings? Speaking just for me, I call myself an LDS because I have a belief in the veracity of the Book of Mormon and that Joesph Smith Jr was a prophet of God. I still use my own God given charm, intellect, and reason to figure out other issues though. So do I disagree with this or that issue? You bet I do. Do I still call myself LDS? You bet I do. That's for me. Hopefully @Lost Boy can explain why he feels the way he does.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: I have no intention to go anywhere. I am not offended by someone like Grunt, but I am not going to entertain him either if he wants to be critical of me. Criticism isn't a right you hold alone. You've been pretty critical of others. Why get upset when the light turns to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: I have no intention to go anywhere. I am not offended by someone like Grunt, but I am not going to entertain him either if he wants to be critical of me. @Grunt is a great guy, we all love him. I'm sure he's not trying to offend or hurt you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Speaking just for me, I call myself an LDS because I have a belief in the veracity of the Book of Mormon and that Joesph Smith Jr was a prophet of God. I still use my own God given charm, intellect, and reason to figure out other issues though. So do I disagree with this or that issue? You bet I do. Do I still call myself LDS? You bet I do. That's for me. Hopefully @Lost Boy can explain why he feels the way he does.... Honestly I don't know what he is talking about. I don't believe in a global flood and I don't think the creation occurred in 6 days. I know many members that share the same view. Perhaps there is something else he is referring to. BJ64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, MormonGator said: Okay. Well, I tried. Fight it out than you two. Mispost. I didn't get to finish my thought. There is a difference between you and others. You're respectful, you answer questions openly and honestly, even if you haven't fully fleshed out your position. You acknowledge the Church's position and sustain it, as far as I've seen. You don't go out of your way to argue every position you have that doesn't align with the Church in an attempt to beat your "opponent" down and wordsmith your way out of your infrequent misalignments. You don't go out of your way to insult members because they follow the teaching of the church. I get a little ticked at the seemingly sudden onset of posters who spend more time beating down Church beliefs than supporting them. I probably feel so strongly about it because, and I recognize this isn't the intent of the site, this is one of the few sites that people can get answers to off the wall questions. If I'd encountered some of the discussions that have taken place lately, I would likely have buggered off and not received the guidance I so desperately needed. For those that are investigating, they're getting answers that don't follow church teachings from the loudest voices who may not be the best representatives. Maybe I'm expecting too much at this stage and need to find a new hangout myself. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 And admittedly, sometimes I mix up some of these names and confuse posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Grunt said: Maybe I'm expecting too much at this stage and need to find a new hangout myself. Please don't go. That's always the beginning of the end, when good people start going. pam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, zil said: Please don't go. That's always the beginning of the end, when good people start going. Meh. I appreciate the compliment but don't necessarily agree. You have a great crew here. I've just been jaded with the site's content and posters lately. I don't know if it's just me getting bothered by people/things unnecessarily, or if the rest of you are just much better people than I am and look past it. It just seems like lately there has been a TON of energy from a few posters that goes into disproving the teachings of the church, insulting some very smart members, and just general opinions that belong on an anti page. It doesn't do much for my own spiritual growth. Besides, I'll save money on fountain pens. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest LDS Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) I look at this question the same way I look at God's being outside of time. I just cannot wrap my head around that concept. I believe it, but when I try to picture not being subject to time myself, my brain hurts. I put it down as one of those doctrines that will make perfect sense on the other side, when we have access to knowledge and experiences we don't have here. So don't be too troubled by this subject my friend. We worship God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ and that is by far the most important doctrine we espouse☺ Edited May 15, 2018 by Midwest LDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Grunt said: There is a difference between you and others. You're respectful, you answer questions openly and honestly, even if you haven't fully fleshed out your position. You acknowledge the Church's position and sustain it, as far as I've seen. You don't go out of your way to argue every position you have that doesn't align with the Church in an attempt to beat your "opponent" down and wordsmith your way out of your infrequent misalignments. You don't go out of your way to insult members because they follow the teaching of the church. Very nice of you to say. Thanks man, really appreciate the kind words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Grunt said: Meh. I appreciate the compliment but don't necessarily agree. You have a great crew here. I've just been jaded with the site's content and posters lately. I don't know if it's just me getting bothered by people/things unnecessarily, or if the rest of you are just much better people than I am and look past it. It just seems like lately there has been a TON of energy from a few posters that goes into disproving the teachings of the church, insulting some very smart members, and just general opinions that belong on an anti page. It doesn't do much for my own spiritual growth. You're now part of that crew. I've seen what you've seen, and felt frustration too, but I know that the balance is easily tilted by one change, and once the balance tilts in the other direction, those voices you mention take over and the tone of the site completely changes. Then any remaining "loyalists" depart because it's not worth the battle any more, and the one and only forum which had a tone of completely supporting the Church is gone. (Seriously, this is the only one I was able to find.) I don't want to see that future - 'twould be a sad, sad day. So I do what I can, and try not to feed the rest. 6 minutes ago, Grunt said: Besides, I'll save money on fountain pens. I offered, dude, I offered. Grunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Lost Boy said: You are not an engineer are you? I am and have had the exact same discussion with myself. I don't have the answers. What I do believe is that for us there is just one God that matters... God the father. Where did the matter of the universe come from? Did God create it? Or just organize it? Who created the place God is from? Yup... you are not alone with those questions. What if God didn't even know where it all began... Science has an explanation back to a big bang, but really has nothing before that. Although it is interesting to contemplate about, it is essentially a fruitless exercise. Need to be concerned about the here and now. Quote How can you ask some of these questions that are so apart from some of the teachings of the Church and still label yourself LDS? @Grunt, do you really think that the questions in bold that @Lost Boy listed are questions that an LDS member would not even think of or even wonder about? M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 37 minutes ago, Grunt said: Criticism isn't a right you hold alone. You've been pretty critical of others. Why get upset when the light turns to you? I have never challenged someones belief in the church like you did to me. I don't recall putting anyone down. Now I did question some very questionable science and find it bizarre when people make up science to fit something they can't jive with reality. I don't know if the flood happened or not. I have respect for those that can believe it. I just don't understand why people make stuff up to help them believe. My guess is that pointing out inconsistencies is not what people want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: I have never challenged someones belief in the church like you did to me. I don't recall putting anyone down. Now I did question some very questionable science and find it bizarre when people make up science to fit something they can't jive with reality. I don't know if the flood happened or not. I have respect for those that can believe it. I just don't understand why people make stuff up to help them believe. My guess is that pointing out inconsistencies is not what people want to hear. Your guess is wrong, as is your recollection. This post and your “I’m right and if you can’t see that you’re the problem” is an example of that. You said it best: you’re full of yourself. You’ve been insulting to several great members. That’s an ugly quality, but I’m sure you don’t see it. I’ll likely leave it at that. Edited May 16, 2018 by Grunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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