Did your children ever not want to go to church? How did you handle it?


Lee
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My nephew who my wife and I are caring for has decided he doesn't want to go to church anymore. This has been the case for 3 weeks and we have battled with him, tried to convince him he should go, we have tried bribing him with gifts if he comes with us but we haven't had any luck. My wife and I have been alternating weeks of one of us attending and the other staying home with our nephew. However, we both miss going to church together, we want to convince our nephew to come with us. Our nephew is going through an emotional time right now and he isn't mature enough to handle his emotions, he thinks because his mom isn't getting any better and he has been praying about it that God isn't helping him, he is very angry at God. Have your children ever not wanted to go to church? How did you convince them to go ? 

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Ok, you got two issues here:

1) Him being mad at God.

2) Physically attending church.

The first one is the most important to work through.  This is something where you and Ms Lee can spend a lot of time talking about spiritual things with him and being there for him.  But ultimately the ball is in his court.  Anger is a natural part of the mourning process and he is working through that (morning isn't just reserved for when people die).  He's got to do it, and it'll take time.  If I recall, you guy do have him in counseling, which is good.  You two keep keeping the door open and being there for him.

As to the second thing: If he were to tell you "I don't want to go to school right now!" would you let him ditch?  No!  He is not allowed to shirk his education-- not secular or spiritual.  He gets up and goes with you, those are the rules.  Doesn't matter if it's secular or spiritual schooling: ditching is not an option. And yes, he'll probably make everyone's life miserable that morning.  Still got to get up and get going: ditching isn't an option. 

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10 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

 As to the second thing: If he were to tell you "I don't want to go to school right now!" would you let him ditch?  No!  He is not allowed to shirk his education-- not secular or spiritual.  He gets up and goes with you, those are the rules.  Doesn't matter if it's secular or spiritual schooling: ditching is not an option. And yes, he'll probably make everyone's life miserable that morning.  Still got to get up and get going: ditching isn't an option. 

 

We have let him stay off school a few times because it was easier than fighting with him. Although, he had to go with my wife for the day and he came to the realization that school is more fun than sitting in an office. 

10 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

The first one is the most important to work through.  This is something where you and Ms Lee can spend a lot of time talking about spiritual things with him and being there for him.  But ultimately the ball is in his court.  Anger is a natural part of the mourning process and he is working through that (morning isn't just reserved for when people die).  He's got to do it, and it'll take time.  If I recall, you guy do have him in counseling, which is good.  You two keep keeping the door open and being there for him.

 

We do try but if he doesn't want to listen he will just get up and go to his room. Truly, I think we are fed up of fighting a losing battle with him. 

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Guest MormonGator

Caveat-no, I don't have kids, but I was once a kid who hated, hated, HATED going to church.

I feel sorry for guardians of kids who don't want to go to church. In my view, you need to walk a fine line between shoving it down their throat and letting the kid do whatever they want. I've noticed in my own life that kids who felt forced to go to church usually (key world, usually) don't attend in their adult life. I didn't, neither did my sister. 

Could you compromise and say "You can only go for one hour then you can go home and study homework. Or get a job." Is that something that might work? 

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59 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Caveat-no, I don't have kids, but I was once a kid who hated, hated, HATED going to church.

I feel sorry for guardians of kids who don't want to go to church. In my view, you need to walk a fine line between shoving it down their throat and letting the kid do whatever they want. I've noticed in my own life that kids who felt forced to go to church usually (key world, usually) don't attend in their adult life. I didn't, neither did my sister. 

Could you compromise and say "You can only go for one hour then you can go home and study homework. Or get a job." Is that something that might work? 

He is a bit too young to put to work he is only 8 years old. We tried convincing him that he can go to primary only but he wasn't game. I agree with you it isn't right to force him to go. 

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35 minutes ago, Lee said:

He is a bit too young to put to work he is only 8 years old. We tried convincing him that he can go to primary only but he wasn't game. I agree with you it isn't right to force him to go. 

This is my 2 cents and it's only worth 2 cents.  I believe that things like Church/School/even Movies are things that kids do because it's what their families do.  It's part of the Family Identity.  So, if my son would refuse to go to Church (highly unlikely) then that means he doesn't feel like he wants to carry the Family Identity anymore and, therefore, I would address it as such - This is who we are.  We are a family that go to Church.  And that's basically the end of it  Because, barring super abnormal circumstances, a kid always want to belong to the family.

In your case, as this is your nephew, I think it is important that you give him a Family Identity.  He needs to stop being your nephew and start being your son.

Edited by anatess2
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The kid is EIGHT YEARS OLD. I mean, come on. He doesn't get a choice. When it's time for Church, you go to Church. His preferences have nothing to do with the matter.

Seriously, who says, "Oh, the eight-year-old doesn't want to go to Church, so I guess we stay home"? If you are acting in loco parentis, then grow the heck up and act like a parent.

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23 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

This is my 2 cents and it's only worth 2 cents.  I believe that things like Church/School/even Movies are things that kids do because it's what their families do.  It's part of the Family Identity.  So, if my son would refuse to go to Church (highly unlikely) then that means he doesn't feel like he wants to carry the Family Identity anymore and, therefore, I would address it as such - This is who we are.  We are a family that go to Church.  And that's basically the end of it  Because, barring super abnormal circumstances, a kid always want to belong to the family.

In your case, as this is your nephew, I think it is important that you give him a Family Identity.  He needs to stop being your nephew and start being your son.

I can't just be his dad, he knows I am his uncle and I am barely old enough to be his dad, I was 17 when he was born. I can't parent an 8 year old. 

 

17 minutes ago, Vort said:

The kid is EIGHT YEARS OLD. I mean, come on. He doesn't get a choice. When it's time for Church, you go to Church. His preferences have nothing to do with the matter.

Seriously, who says, "Oh, the eight-year-old doesn't want to go to Church, so I guess we stay home"? If you are acting in loco parentis, then grow the heck up and act like a parent.

 How do you expect me to make him go to church? Drag him in to the car? 

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1 minute ago, Lee said:

How do you expect me to make him go to church? Drag him in to the car?

How do you "make" him go to school?

Why would you have ever given him the choice to begin with? It's Sunday morning, so we go to Church. When he says "I don't want to", you respond, "Yes, I know. Let's go." Why on earth would you get into a power struggle with an eight-year-old? You're the adult. Act like it.

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Just now, Lee said:

I can't just be his dad, he knows I am his uncle and I am barely old enough to be his dad, I was 17 when he was born. I can't parent an 8 year old. 

 

 How do you expect me to make him go to church? Drag him in to the car? 

Age has nothing to do with it.  I just got done staying with a family whose head of the household is only 15 years old.  He is raising his younger siblings, the youngest being only 2 years old,  because both his parents are out of the country due to some issue with offshore workers getting stuck at the embassy and his grandma who they're living with is too old and weak to care for them properly.  That 15-year-old got a good grip on that family, I tell ya.  He's got that discipline thing down pat when it comes to his siblings.

So, when it comes to parenting, it's either you want to take on the responsibility of being the parent or you don't.  Regardless of your desire, that kid needs a parent.  So if you don't want to do it, you need to hand him over to somebody who does.

 

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3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Age has nothing to do with it.  I just got done staying with a family whose head of the household is only 15 years old.  He is raising his younger siblings, the youngest being only 2 years old,  because both his parents are out of the country due to some issue with offshore workers getting stuck at the embassy and his grandma who they're living with is too old and weak to care for them properly.  That 15-year-old got a good grip on that family, I tell ya.  He's got that discipline thing down pat when it comes to his siblings.

 So, when it comes to parenting, it's either you want to take on the responsibility of being the parent or you don't.  Regardless of your desire, that kid needs a parent.  So if you don't want to do it, you need to hand him over to somebody who does.

  

I am the only family he has so we are stuck with each other. 

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9 minutes ago, Vort said:

How do you "make" him go to school?

Why would you have ever given him the choice to begin with? It's Sunday morning, so we go to Church. When he says "I don't want to", you respond, "Yes, I know. Let's go." Why on earth would you get into a power struggle with an eight-year-old? You're the adult. Act like it.

Because if he refuses to get out of bed or get in the car, what am I supposed to do? 

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Just now, Lee said:

I am the only family he has so we are stuck with each other. 

I guess you get to be the parent.  Parenting 101:  Your child is too immature to overrule the adult on what he can and can't do.  Pretty soon - and it will be sooner than you realize - you'll be in a situation where you're gonna feel like you're stuck with prisoners running the asylum.

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4 minutes ago, Lee said:

Because if he refuses to get out of bed or get in the car, what am I supposed to do? 

Is this what he's doing?  He's refusing to get out of bed or get in the car?  Because, if he is, you might be too far gone (see my comment above).  You're gonna need to engage the professional therapist.

Edited by anatess2
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Parenting 102 (eloquently explained much better by Jordan B. Peterson):  You're going to need to raise a child that you like being with.  If you don't like being with him, for sure others won't like being with him either.  Church is a great place for him to learn principles that makes him somebody you want to be with.

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8 minutes ago, Lee said:

Because if he refuses to get out of bed or get in the car, what am I supposed to do? 

Lee, my friend, if this is the case, then I hate to tell you, but your nephew is a spoiled brat. You need to start -- TODAY -- taking drastic actions to help the child learn his place in your family and the expectations you have of him.

How does an EIGHT-YEAR-OLD "refuse" to get out of bed or get in the car? How could a child ever have been allowed to get into that position?

Seriously, please start today in teaching that child some responsibility and expectations. The very idea that a child of that age would refuse to obey simple instructions like "get up", "get dressed", or "go to the car" is of very serious concern.

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4 minutes ago, Vort said:

Lee, my friend, if this is the case, then I hate to tell you, but your nephew is a spoiled brat. You need to start -- TODAY -- taking drastic actions to help the child learn his place in your family and the expectations you have of him.

How does an EIGHT-YEAR-OLD "refuse" to get out of bed or get in the car? How could a child ever have been allowed to get into that position?

Seriously, please start today in teaching that child some responsibility and expectations. The very idea that a child of that age would refuse to obey simple instructions like "get up", "get dressed", or "go to the car" is of very serious concern.

Yeah an 8 year old is very different than a 16 year old. I assumed the kid was much older.. 

While I don't think you should force an 8 year old to get baptized, you certainly can force them to go to sacrament meeting with you.

@Lee, Do you think it's a problem where the kid needs psychological help?  

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This is not about forcing an 8-year-old to go to Church.  This is about teaching a child obedience.

The first lesson you teach a child is obedience.  This is necessary not just for the spiritual upliftment of the child but also a personal safety.  When you tell a child - "Don't move." when he is unaware that he is within striking distance of a rattlesnake, you don't want a child that will yell back, "I don't wanna!".

Same with school, same with church, etc. etc.

 

Edited by anatess2
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48 minutes ago, Lee said:

Drag him in to the car? 

One of my earliest memories is of the first day of preschool.  I can still see my little hands wrapped around the inside door handle of an open VW bug door.  The material was black (plastic? leatherette?).  My mom had to physically detach me (I can't remember if she pried my fingers or just pulled on the rest of me until she won).  Then she dragged me screaming into the building.  I don't remember what happened inside.  My protest was because she made me wear a dress.

Guess what?  I survived.  I find the memory highly amusing now.  I'm sure my mom hated it as much as I did (for different reasons).

If necessary, drag the kid to church already.

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I expect right now the kid is learning: "If I throw a big enough fit, I'll get to do what I want."  Under no circumstances should he be allowed to learn that lesson.  The penalty for not going to church should be worse than he thinks going to church is.  (Although really, not going is not an option.  Tuck him under your arm and away you go.)

Edited by zil
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Just now, zil said:

One of my earliest memories is of the first day of preschool.  I can still see my little hands wrapped around the inside door handle of an open VW bug door.  The material was black (plastic? leatherette?).  My mom had to physically detach me (I can't remember if she pried my fingers or just pulled on the rest of me until she won).  Then she dragged me screaming into the building.  I don't remember what happened inside.  My protest was because she made me wear a dress.

Guess what?  I survived.  I find the memory highly amusing now.  I'm sure my mom hated it as much as I did (for different reasons).

If necessary, drag the kid to church already.

So I physically drag a scared and angry 8 year old and what happens? He will just get more angry and more scared, I am sure I will win the parent of the year award for that.

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Just now, Lee said:

So I physically drag a scared and angry 8 year old and what happens? He will just get more angry and more scared, I am sure I will win the parent of the year award for that.

Like I said, I survived.  That I don't remember what happened inside means it wasn't terribly eventful.

Right now, you're teaching this kid to manipulate you.  You've got to stop it.  So yeah, if needed, drag him off to church.  You should also stop using the words "have to" and start using (and meaning) "get to" instead.  I don't have to go to church or a meeting or ministering visits - I get to.

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55 minutes ago, Lee said:

So I physically drag a scared and angry 8 year old and what happens? He will just get more angry and more scared, I am sure I will win the parent of the year award for that.

If you have to yes-but it shouldn't ever come to that.  Kids are naturally obedient . . . when addressed in the proper manner. Kids are naturally intimidated by adults.  I mean wouldn't you be intimitaded by a being that is 12 ft tall can lift you up with two hands and throw you into the air like you were a sack of potatoes?  I know I sure would be naturally intimidated by some being who is more than twice as big as me and speaks in a gruff voice.

Really, the key to parenting is more about attitude than anything else.  If you want a child to obey then you never stoop to their level-always give clear, concise directions from a firm fully upright position.  Never say things like "Do you want to get ready for church?" (You just gave them the option to say no, and the child might just say no, now what are you going to do??), never say things like "Please go get your clothes on, okay?"  Why are you addressing a child in sing-song tone punctuated with the words okay at the end (i.e. you just made it a question rather then a command).

In the morning you simply tell the child "Billy, go get dressed for church".  "Billy, go get in the car, now".  Use the command form of the english language. Having your wife stay home with him, simply lets him know that he runs the household and whatever he wants he gets.  Now for the other aspect, using the command form generally works, but sometimes (when a child has been disobedient for a long time) the command form doesn't work and now you need consequence.

"Billy, it is time for you to pick up your toys" . . .nothing

"Billy, I am giving you 5 min. to pick up the toys, I expect them to be cleaned up when I come back"  .. . leave the room and leave the child to it.

5 min. later.  "Billy, your toys are not picked up, I will now pick them up and they are now mine for the rest of the day and you will go to your room now"

etc. etc.

Old-school parenting . . .it really works.

 

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

Lee, my friend, if this is the case, then I hate to tell you, but your nephew is a spoiled brat. You need to start -- TODAY -- taking drastic actions to help the child learn his place in your family and the expectations you have of him.

How does an EIGHT-YEAR-OLD "refuse" to get out of bed or get in the car? How could a child ever have been allowed to get into that position?

Seriously, please start today in teaching that child some responsibility and expectations. The very idea that a child of that age would refuse to obey simple instructions like "get up", "get dressed", or "go to the car" is of very serious concern.

Don't call him that, he has probably been through more bad things in his 8 years than you have in your entire life. 

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1 hour ago, Lee said:

So I physically drag a scared and angry 8 year old and what happens? He will just get more angry and more scared, I am sure I will win the parent of the year award for that.

If you do not want to fight in public... then fight in privacy of your own home.

 

You have already taught him that it is better to go to school then it is to stay home. By dragging him to a completely boring place (aka work) when he did.

So now teach him that is it better to go to church then it is to stay home.  If needed have him sit in a chair facing the corner for three hours.  If you do that trust me once will be enough.  (or you can pick something else... as long as it is boring and he can not play at all)  And since you are home you can fight without worrying what other would think.

Although I would recommend given him a heads up that things are changing before Sunday morning.

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