2ndRateMind Posted May 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Fether said: If you guys love your people so much, why don't you get rid of your bombs and guns?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre Well, actually, that is exactly what we are trying to do. I am not at all sure the commercial interests and the NRA allow the same political agenda in the US. Best wishes, 2RM. Edited May 18, 2018 by 2ndRateMind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, zil said: Sigh. I was really hoping no one would reply. It would have been so simple, and peaceful. Alas. Someone take away my keyboard. zil and Fether 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said: Well, actually, that is exactly what we are trying to do. I am not at all the commercial interests and the NRA allows the same political agenda in the US. Best wishes, 2RM. Now I'm confused. "Trying to do?" You mean guns and bombs aren't banned already? What about truck control laws, you know, to stop terrorists from plowing into crowds? mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, unixknight said: This. I support gun rights BECAUSE I have kids. I want them to be able to live free, with the means to defend themselves. Especially my daughters. I have three daughters. I would rather live in a society where one doesn't worry about needing to defend themselves. I hope the US will one day be that, but it isn't. I support the right for people to own a gun, but I rather not own one except for hunting. I don't ever want to be in the situation where I need to take another's life even if they are criminals. There are very few random murders. I live in a city of 70k. I remember only one murder in the 20 years I have been here. It was not gun related. Had the victim had a gun, he would not have been able to defend himself. If someone breaks into my home to steel something, they can have it. I have insurance. I would rather pay a $1000 deductible than to live with the knowledge I took someones life even if they are a criminal. Criminals are stills sons or daughters of God. sons or daughters on a bad path. I'd rather give them a chance to get on the right path than to take their life away. Just_A_Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, Lost Boy said: I have three daughters. I would rather live in a society where one doesn't worry about needing to defend themselves. I hope the US will one day be that, but it isn't. I support the right for people to own a gun, but I rather not own one except for hunting. You do live in that society. Unless you're a gang banger, druggie, or live amongst them, the odds of you ever needing to defend yourself are almost non-existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: Criminals are stills sons or daughters of God. sons or daughters on a bad path. I'd rather give them a chance to get on the right path than to take their life away. Do you think gun owners WANT to kill? mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 25 minutes ago, unixknight said: That's so true. They have no codified free speech either. UK cops threaten arrests over mocking social media Man arrested and convicted of offensive joke Too bad they don't have the ability to protect themselves against an increasingly tyrranical government. Still feel safe over there? Indeed its a completely different culture. If the USA had it we would still be colonies of Britain. Instead we have a very strong culture of Independence from government. Trying to use tragic events as an excuse to grow government power is a tactic that has shown to be used over and over and over again. Not all of us are foolish enough to give in. And many of us want answers that will truly and effectively work... But we never get a chance to even talk about it because all the other side wants is "More Laws, Less Guns, Blame the NRA" unixknight and mirkwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 Don't know why we're talking about this now. Surely, we've all come to a consensus as to the right answer. I'm almost sure we had unanimous agreement in one of these other fun threads: https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/57944-preventing-a-shooting-in-an-lds-meeting/ https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/59496-church-updates-security-guidelines-for-meetinghouses/?tab=comments#comment-871554 https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/58126-guns-at-church/ https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/59535-poor-man-another-senseless-killing/ Still_Small_Voice, Grunt and mirkwood 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Grunt said: Someone take away my keyboard. Sorry. When I posted that, I didn't realize you were the first to reply. Anywho, you weren't alone, so I guess others thought it worth reply to as well. I'm going to go make myself feel better with a mini coconut cream pie - just to counteract any positive effects my salad may have just had. mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: I would rather live in a society where one doesn't worry about needing to defend themselves Guns don’t make a dangerous society. People do mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Grunt said: You do live in that society. Unless you're a gang banger, druggie, or live amongst them, the odds of you ever needing to defend yourself are almost non-existent. The crime stats do not support that statement. Women are raped, homes are invaded, people get killed over cars, wallets and jewelry. You don't have to be a gang member, drug addict or live in slums to encounter that. The odds are low, yes, but I would much rather my kids know how to protect themselves than leave them to the mercy of random chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, zil said: Sorry. When I posted that, I didn't realize you were the first to reply. Anywho, you weren't alone, so I guess others thought it worth reply to as well. I'm going to go make myself feel better with a mini coconut cream pie - just to counteract any positive effects my salad may have just had. But in my defense, even though I saw it was a troll thread I tried to put it to rest with a serious answer. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Grunt said: But in my defense, even though I saw it was a troll thread I tried to put it to rest with a serious answer. Yes, it was an excellent response, totally ignoring the passive-aggressive accusation bit. Well done on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, unixknight said: The crime stats do not support that statement. Women are raped, homes are invaded, people get killed over cars, wallets and jewelry. You don't have to be a gang member, drug addict or live in slums to encounter that. The odds are low, yes, but I would much rather my kids know how to protect themselves than leave them to the mercy of random chance. The stats absolutely support that statement. Outside of the crime hot spots, we have very low violent crime spots. However, even that being correct, it doesn't negate your closing statement. I absolutely encourage people to know how to defend themselves. I carry almost everywhere. My family shoots. I'm an Endowment Life NRA Member, GOA Life Member, 2nd Amendment Foundation supporter, etc. Don't confuse my recognition of the low likelihood that my family will be the victim of violent crime with a lack of support to be prepared for ANY situation. unixknight and mirkwood 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, zil said: Yes, it was an excellent response, totally ignoring the passive-aggressive accusation bit. Well done on that front. Everyone once in awhile, I'm able to let a little Mormon show. mirkwood and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Grunt said: The stats absolutely support that statement. Outside of the crime hot spots, we have very low violent crime spots. I guess it depends on how significant those stats have to be before one would call the odds "almost nonexistent." That's subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Fether said: Guns don’t make a dangerous society. People do If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that I agree with you. Still I'd like to live in a society where people do feel the need to protect themselves. I have spent a lot of time in Japan. I have never once felt like I was in danger... Except when a couple of prostitutes grabbed my hands and tried to get me to go with them.... OK, I didn't feel any real danger, but it was a weird experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, unixknight said: Do you think gun owners WANT to kill? I know a lot that like to talk themselves up..... how they would be the hero and take the bad guy out. So yes, I think there are some that want to be the hero and think it wouldn't matter if they took the life of a criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) @Lost Boy Enough to justify a blanket statement? 'Cause the truth is most of that is a bunch of bluster. I'm so uncomfortable with the idea of maybe having to shoot at someone to defend my home that I don't even personally have a gun. I have a can of bear spray. I have had guns though, and plan to again, and not because I want to be Clint Eastwood. That said, I think you do a disservice to people who do choose to protect their home with firearms. Edited May 18, 2018 by unixknight mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 36 minutes ago, unixknight said: True, but the point is that gun control laws aren't the thing that will prevent violent crime. And why didn't those inmates graduate? Because they chose to drop out. The problem is very, very complex. Improving schools would help, but it won't make any difference if the students won't show up. I don't think it needs to be that complex. If you have a smaller class size and have the same teacher year after year, the students and teacher will form a bond of trust. As such the students are more likely to let the teacher know if there are issues at home and if there is something additional that needs to happen. Makes it far easier for the student to show up. Far easier to deal with bullying as well. But the thought is to keep the status quo and then complain about it. No real push to fix the real issues. The only real way to fix poverty in the US is to educate it out of the people. There are far too many people that are professional poverty cases.... people that learn to work the system and never find the need to get out of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, unixknight said: @Lost Boy Enough to justify a blanket statement? 'Cause the truth is most of that is a bunch of bluster. I'm so uncomfortable with the idea of maybe having to shoot at someone to defend my home that I don't even personally have a gun. I have a can of bear spray. I have had guns though, and plan to again, and not because I want to be Clint Eastwood. That said, I think you do a disservice to people who do choose to protect their home with firearms. Nah, there are those who truly don't want to hurt someone, but would if they have to, and then there are those that would be proud of themselves for taking out the bad guy. I would never feel proud for taking a life, even in self defense. I would grieve quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayKi Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 Is not just the Guns though there must be other problem with US because in Costa Rica there lots of gun crime but I never heard of a school shooting in Costa Rica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said: Note to self: must be more civil in future. Note to moderator: would be easier to achieve this if bullying personal abuse were to be the subject of similar warnings. Best wishes, 2RM. Are you requesting we give you a warning? The passive aggressive behavior you are engaging in is bullying AND abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Fether said: So the 2010 Cumbria shooting doesn't count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings / https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/02/cumbria-shootings-slaughter-countryside-derrick-bird If you guys love your people so much, why don't you get rid of YOUR bombs and guns?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre One bomb kills more people then one bullet. Where's the outrage! If you loved children you wouldn't let people use bombs to blow up other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Grunt said: Someone take away my keyboard. We need common sense keyboard laws too. If we loved our children that is... mordorbund, Grunt, unixknight and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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