Can I Find Out if my Ex Was Allowed to Go to the Temple

[TeancumFan]

I suppose this is a bigger problem to me than I dreamed. But something happened recently that has me in turmoil yet again.  A brief background. My marriage was over 4 years after it began. This was a LONG time ago.  I had and continue to have strong beliefs that my ex was in an adulterous affair...but no proof other than the circumstances.  My sealing was cancelled 3 weeks after application....a record at the time so I feel the Church recognized that too.  I moved on with my life, or so I thought.

Fast forward 30 years. Out of the blue I get a letter from a bishop telling me my ex wants to be sealed in the Temple to his "new family". The bishop wants information from me about the divorce and its reasons etc.  Talk about opening Pandora's box!   Finally, and very reluctantly I provided the requested information, actually having to respond twice when the bishop told me my ex was denying everything.  This was excruciating for me though not unexpected.  I had not really dealt with the infidelity....not for all those years. It caused a crisis in my life....every single aspect of my life....that to some extent continues to this day. 

The thing that bothers me is after I provided EVERY detail the leader requested which left me emotionally and spiritually shattered,  I was told I would not be informed of the outcome.  The 1st Presidency could either allow the sealing immediately, allow it, but later, or not allow it.

I thought I could be okay with that but 4 years afterward I find the truth is Im not. My ex was a liar and a cheat and even though he isnt fooling God, I have every reason to believe he tried to fool the Church....yet again.

Can I do anything about it if he was allowed to be sealed again? No.  Will it make a difference in my life? No.  But occasionally people bring this up and ask questions and it pours salt in the wound yet again. So I would like to know whether they did or did not go to the temple. It would provide closure of a sort for me.

Short of asking my bishop or asking him.....neither which Im ever gonna do....is there a way I can find out if they went to the temple?   He lives several hundred miles away and I dont have the means for a PI.  Anyone with experience in this area.....Id love to hear from you.

PS.  Im not looking for a sermon on forgiveness or on the atonement. Ive heard it all, and tried it all.  This has been nearly 40 years in the making.  Nor can I afford therapy over it even though it might be needed.  So please dont waste my time and yours unless you have useful, practical info to add.  Thank you.

 

[zil]

OK, so, no sugar coating.  Short answer is no, there's no way for you to find this out.  Long answer, let's figure out the way we know any person was married in the temple:

• Church records.  Every method I can think of to access these is unethical at best.  (Only the individual, spouse, and leadership have access to whether a person was sealed in the temple.)
• Marriage license.  This would only be useful only if you could determine temple marriage based on who signed it (and that's an assumption on my part).  Again, can't think of a legal way to access this.
  • If they were married civilly and sealed later, I assume this isn't an option.
• Interview his ward members (or his / her family members) to see if anyone attended the wedding / sealing.
• Break into their residence / photo galleries and see if there are any photos of them in wedding clothes at the temple.  Again, no ethical approach.
  • This would only work if they're the sort to take pictures, and a sealing after a civil wedding might decrease the probability of distinctly recognizable photos.
  • You might be able to find sufficient evidence on social media, if they're the type to post this kind of thing on social media.

These are the only ways I can think of to determine if someone was married at the temple.  Social media searching is the only way I can think of to ethically find the info, and that's iffy.

[Jane_Doe]

There is no way for you to find out until after he's dead.  Living people have privacy rights, and sealing information definitely falls under that.

Your bishop can pay for you to receive professional counseling to help this wound finally heal.  You deserve happiness. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Grunt]

4 hours ago, TeancumFan said:

PS.  Im not looking for a sermon on forgiveness or on the atonement. Ive heard it all, and tried it all.  This has been nearly 40 years in the making.  Nor can I afford therapy over it even though it might be needed.  So please dont waste my time and yours unless you have useful, practical info to add.  Thank you.

 

3

The useful, practical info is exactly what you're ignoring.  Why are you letting him still control you?  Why are you trying to ruin his life 30 years later?  Has he repented?  Has he moved on?  Christ REQUIRES that we forgive those who sin against us.

3 Nephi 13:14-15

Quote

 

14 For, if ye forgive men their trespasses your heavenly Father will also forgive you;

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

D&C 64:9

Quote

9 Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.

So it doesn't matter if he's worthy of forgiveness.  Your forgiveness is just as much for you as it is for him.  Maybe more so.  Look at what it's done to you.  Move on.  Put it past you.  

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Grunt

[Overwatch]

5 hours ago, TeancumFan said:

PS.  Im not looking for a sermon on forgiveness or on the atonement. Ive heard it all, and tried it all.  This has been nearly 40 years in the making.  Nor can I afford therapy over it even though it might be needed.  So please dont waste my time and yours unless you have useful, practical info to add.  Thank you.

Hey!,

I Like the name. Teancum was a beast, full of justice and brave.

Look, you sound really stressed about this and very upset. The answer is NO. His sealing is not privy to you and it indeed is his personal business now. You gave the information that the leaders needed to go before the Lord and ask what should be done. It is now out of your hands.

Jane gave you some great advice about seeing your bishop and getting some professional assistance. I hope you find the peace you need to get through this trial.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Overwatch
*

[unixknight]

I hope this response doesn't come across as being jerk-ish, but out of respect for the OP, I'm just going to shoot straight here...

I'm really sorry that you had t hat mess in your life, and I'm glad that it was a long time ago.  That said, you have to move on from it.  No offense, but if you're thinking about hiring a PI to look into it, then you're definitely not over the situation and need to find a way to be.  His life hasn't been your business for 34 years, just as your life hasn't been his.

What's your plan if you find out he got sealed?  Are you going to try to find a way to interfere with it?  Are you going to write letters to his Bishop?  Are you going to contact the Temple Presidency?  The First Presidency?  What do you think you're going to gain by even mentioning the thought of hiring somebody to learn information you're clearly not entitled to?  This is coming uncomfortably close to a form of stalking.

I'm not trying to be mean, or take his side.  I'm telling you that if this is so important to you that you're dwelling on it 34 years later, then it's ripping you up inside and literally no good can come of it.

You said he's a liar and a cheat.  Well, if he's repented and changed, how would you know?  Maybe he has.  If he hasn't and somehow fooled everybody, then he'll get his reckoning on Judgment Day.  In any case you're only harming yourself emotionally and spiritually by obsessing over it.  If you believe the Church is true, and you believe that God is just, then you need to let it go and let those who are in authority handle the situation. 

If you need to seek counseling to help you let go of whatever lingering emotions you have attached to this,  then you should, it can only do you good.  Talk to your Bishop, as sometimes the Church will cover the cost.  Pursuing your ex over this can only bring you harm. 

Please, for your own sake, do whatever it takes to let this go.

[Maureen]

7 hours ago, zil said:

...You might be able to find sufficient evidence on social media, if they're the type to post this kind of thing on social media...

@TeancumFan, I'm thinking (like zil) only one possible way to find out is from social media (Facebook), if either your ex and/or his spouse are on FB. But if you do find out he did get sealed, how would that effect you? Could you accept it and move on, or would it just cause more problems?

M.

[JohnsonJones]

Sometimes it is better to forgive and forget.

In this instance, if it still causes you this great amount of pain, I hope that you wrote that into the letter. 

Sometimes if something still causes pain, especially in this, the actual cause of the pain would be easy to forgive and forget, but the fact that the person lies about it and will never admit the truth is what hurts the most.  In this instance, pointing out that it would be far easier and a lot less pain if your ex would someday simply repent of the sin, by admitting the sin to you and admitting wrong doing, that it would help you greatly in overcoming this large hill that has arisen before you, could be an excellent thing to have included in your statements (and you may have, I do not know). 

However, after that is all said and done, after that pain was raised back up, it is time to close it up again and forget about it...unless you had children with your ex.  If you had children, finding out whether your ex was sealed again or not would be a simple matter of asking your children.  If there were not children, do your best to move on and forget about it.  I know it could be painful, but try to not let it affect you and move on with your own life.  Victory sometimes is showing that you can persevere in life despite what others toss at you or have done to you.

[lostinwater]

 

12 hours ago, TeancumFan said:

 PS.  Im not looking for a sermon on forgiveness or on the atonement. Ive heard it all, and tried it all.  This has been nearly 40 years in the making.  Nor can I afford therapy over it even though it might be needed.  So please dont waste my time and yours unless you have useful, practical info to add.  Thank you.

Sincere condolences.  Though i know those words are relatively worthless.  

i honestly wouldn't worry much about finding out if they were married in the temple.  99.999% sure that one is going to be so plastered over social media such that it would be next to impossible to miss.  And even if not, i imagine you have distant acquaintances who would be privy to it's occurrence?

That aside, i'll take you at your word that you've tried it all.  Not achieving what we think should be possible is hardly evidence that you haven't tried your absolute best.  It's easy to talk about forgiveness when we haven't experienced the kind of pain we're asking someone to forgive.  And i certainly haven't experienced that kind of pain.

i guess there's any one of a number of ways to look at forgiveness - or at least many parts of it.  And, especially in your situation, the definition of forgiveness that involves the perpetrator, after inflicting pain on you, obtaining a cure at your expense is a very bad one.  The focus should be on the parts that benefit you.  Then if/when the pain starts to leave, don't call it back.  Past pain can be used to build a better future, but present pain can never fix a broken past.

And i like what @Jane_Doe says about the church paying for therapy.  After what you went through at their request, i think they should.  Make sure it's a good therapist too.  Therapy is only as helpful as the person providing it.

i hope you find the peace you seek.  You need it, and you deserve it.

[Sunday21]

@TeancumFan I have had some nasty experiences that haunt me. I put an elastic band on my wrist. When I think about these things, I snap the band. I also try to sing in my mind, A Child of God. Any book on Cognitive Behavoral Therapy that includes exercises can be useful for controlling thoughts. Meant to be as effective as therapy. Good luck!

[NightSG]

13 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@TeancumFan I have had some nasty experiences that haunt me. I put an elastic band on my wrist. When I think about these things, I snap the band.

It's a 34 year grudge over a 4 year marriage that she ended over a "strong belief" he was cheating on her. 

(Now that I type that out, it's exactly what my ex is headed for, except our marriage lasted six years, and it's only been over another six so far.  Still, she was trying to talk her lawyer into presenting the complete lack of evidence of adultery as absolute proof that I had to be cheating and covering it up.)

This is not something to self-medicate.  My ex still tends to alienate people fairly often with unsolicited rants about me that make "JFK is still alive and planned 9/11" sound rational by comparison.  I've gotten some very interesting FB messages that start with variations of "was she always that crazy?" and "it's a good thing your oldest is such a daddy's girl."

[wenglund]

Please give yourself permission to:

1) Absolve yourself of any responsibility to protect the church or anyone else from your Ex's possible lies and fooling behavior. There is really nothing you can do to stop it--particularly from the distance of 30 plus years.. And, you run the risk of falsely accusing. Leave it in God's capable hands. He is quite able to manage things even when some people seemingly get away with things that they ought not.

2) Evict your Ex from living rent free in your brain. It is a living arrangement that is good for no one. And, invite the Savior to take his place. He is a far better tenant,. 

3) As a departing gift to both yourself and your Ex, and as a means f turning things over to God, humbly and earnestly pray for the welfare of your former husband, his new family, and all others concerned, wishing them only the best. Do this each day day until the distant relationship no longer has power and control over you.

I will pray for you as well.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Grunt]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:50 PM, TeancumFan said:

I suppose this is a bigger problem to me than I dreamed. But something happened recently that has me in turmoil yet again.  A brief background. My marriage was over 4 years after it began. This was a LONG time ago.  I had and continue to have strong beliefs that my ex was in an adulterous affair...but no proof other than the circumstances.  My sealing was cancelled 3 weeks after application....a record at the time so I feel the Church recognized that too.  I moved on with my life, or so I thought.

Fast forward 30 years. Out of the blue I get a letter from a bishop telling me my ex wants to be sealed in the Temple to his "new family". The bishop wants information from me about the divorce and its reasons etc.  Talk about opening Pandora's box!   Finally, and very reluctantly I provided the requested information, actually having to respond twice when the bishop told me my ex was denying everything.  This was excruciating for me though not unexpected.  I had not really dealt with the infidelity....not for all those years. It caused a crisis in my life....every single aspect of my life....that to some extent continues to this day. 

The thing that bothers me is after I provided EVERY detail the leader requested which left me emotionally and spiritually shattered,  I was told I would not be informed of the outcome.  The 1st Presidency could either allow the sealing immediately, allow it, but later, or not allow it.

I thought I could be okay with that but 4 years afterward I find the truth is Im not. My ex was a liar and a cheat and even though he isnt fooling God, I have every reason to believe he tried to fool the Church....yet again.

Can I do anything about it if he was allowed to be sealed again? No.  Will it make a difference in my life? No.  But occasionally people bring this up and ask questions and it pours salt in the wound yet again. So I would like to know whether they did or did not go to the temple. It would provide closure of a sort for me.

Short of asking my bishop or asking him.....neither which Im ever gonna do....is there a way I can find out if they went to the temple?   He lives several hundred miles away and I dont have the means for a PI.  Anyone with experience in this area.....Id love to hear from you.

PS.  Im not looking for a sermon on forgiveness or on the atonement. Ive heard it all, and tried it all.  This has been nearly 40 years in the making.  Nor can I afford therapy over it even though it might be needed.  So please dont waste my time and yours unless you have useful, practical info to add.  Thank you.

 

I listened to this on my run today and thought of you.  https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/even-as-christ-forgives-you-so-also-do-ye?lang=eng

[dellme]

On 5/28/2018 at 11:50 AM, TeancumFan said:

PS.  Im not looking for a sermon on forgiveness or on the atonement. Ive heard it all, and tried it all.  This has been nearly 40 years in the making.  Nor can I afford therapy over it even though it might be needed.  So please dont waste my time and yours unless you have useful, practical info to add.  Thank you.

Hmm . . .well the practical advice is to learn to forgive and move on with life.  You've hung onto this for 30+ years!!! That means you've effectively hung onto this for HALF your adult life.  My goodness, life is way, way too short to hold onto something like this and let it destroy your life.

Forgiveness is exactly what you need and is the exact therapy you need, nothing else will work. But alas, it will probably fall on deaf ears.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

As a sidenote, there are some people who simply just can't seem to figure out how to make a marriage work, if someone would hold a grudge for 30 years like this, even if the spouse was a complete angel the marriage would end in utter disaster.  Because inevitably people who are like this (i.e. that hold long grudges) would easily find something to hold onto and use it to exert power in the marriage and would use it as a weapon against their spouse and the marriage will fail.

Sigh . . .very, very sad.