Sexual abstinence before marriage...


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My boyfriend slipped up and had sex with someone a few months before we started our relationship. He really wants to get married but hasn't talked to his bishop about it.  I know he's ashamed and maybe doesn't understand the full role of confession, as he's a fairly recent convert. I'm hesitant to progress our relationship because I don't know how long it would be before he could get his endowments and then get married, and he seems really eager to get to that point. Don't you have to wait a year? (Note: he had the Aaronic priesthood at the time he broke the law of chastity.)

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8 minutes ago, dddd said:

Don't you have to wait a year?

In most cases.

Q: When is the best time to plant a tree?
A: 20 years ago

Q: When is the best time to talk to your Bishop
A: yesterday

No reason to wait - good luck.

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Basic Logistics:

- There is a year waiting period between getting baptized and taking out your endowments.  This is to give a person time/room to grow.

- Waiting period between taking out your endowments and getting sealed: as short/long as your want. 

- How long does it take to go through the repentance process?  That is totally dependent on that individual, what happened, and the change since then.  No one can tell you the time frame it'll take another person.

 

You two specifically:

- This young man needs to go meet with his bishop and work through the repentance process.  Sexual transgressions are a big deal and NOT something a person should/can resolve without backup (the Bishop in this case).

- You (the young  lady)... frankly this his relationship with Christ, not yours.  He's the person that needs to step forward to be clean, you cannot do it for him. 

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2 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

No reason to wait - good luck

Great but what is the protocol?

I can't control what he did in the past. Or even what he does now. But it would help to be able to give him some expectations before he confesses, because he said he thinks he will be ex'ed.

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1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

frankly this his relationship with Christ, not yours.  He's the person that needs to step forward to be clean, you cannot do it for him. 

I'm aware of all the logistics surrounding baptism, but not discipline regarding having sex.

And that's all good and fine, I get that. I just don't want to start planning to get engaged now only to learn it will be a year before I can do that, or however long ago it was that happened.

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Repentance is an individual process. 

There is no set protocol of "well, you did X so you automatically get Y punishment"-- that's not repentance or individualized at all!  Rather, repentance is the washing clean and changing of a person's heart.  We can't tell you how long it'll take another person's heart to change.

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The only person that can authoritatively answer your question is the Bishop.  The Bishop should not make that call until he has had a chance to talk to the young man in question.  Even then a lot is going to depend on how quickly the young man in question pulls things together.

Thus only two people can effect the determination of "How Long" and neither on is on this forum (presumably)

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10 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

- There is a year waiting period between getting baptized and taking out your endowments.  This is to give a person time/room to grow.

 There is no set protocol of "well, you did X so you automatically get Y punishment"-- that's not repentance or individualized at all!  Rather, repentance is the washing clean and changing of a person's heart.  We can't tell you how long it'll take another person's heart to change.

So there's nothing in the Bishop's handbook that says if someone has intercourse they have to wait a year before being endowed/sealed? Because by that same logic then the year in between baptism and endowment being at least a year would also be individualized.

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7 minutes ago, dddd said:

it would help to be able to give him some expectations before he confesses, because he said he thinks he will be ex'ed.

1) If he is truly repentant, was not married, and the person with whom he had sex was not married, there's a good chance, I think, that he will not be excommunicated.  Even if some of these things are wrong, it's still not guaranteed - of course, if they're all right, I suppose there's a chance - it's in the hands of his bishop.

2) What he can expect is that everything will be better immediately after he confesses.  That won't be the end of it, but the release of that burden, turning it over to the Savior, will be a huge weight off his shoulders.  Satan and his minions will be denied the ability to use this burden against him.  Your friend will have opened himself up to Christ's atoning power through the priesthood keys held by his bishop and will receive power and healing for having done so.  As he continues on this path, he will be able to restore, heal, and receive the peace and strength that comes from sincere repentance.

Tell him not to wait!  Repentance is a gift.  Only Satan desires to keep that gift from him.  Only Satan wants him to run and hide.  Our Father and Savior want your friend to come back to them so they can help him.

I know your friend is afraid (that's Satan again), but that fear will only grow stronger the longer he waits.  So don't wait!  Go now.  It'll be OK.

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Just now, estradling75 said:

The only person that can authoritatively answer your question is the Bishop.  The Bishop should not make that call until he has had a chance to talk to the young man in question.  Even then a lot is going to depend on how quickly the young man in question pulls things together.

Thus only two people can effect the determination of "How Long" and neither on is on this forum (presumably)

Ok that makes sense because I do not know a lot of the details and it does make sense the details would determine it.

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28 minutes ago, dddd said:

I'm hesitant to progress our relationship because I don't know how long it would be before he could get his endowments and then get married, and he seems really eager to get to that point.

If you are asking specifically what you should do, that will depend on you and God.  I would pray about it, seek counsel from the Lord.

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2 minutes ago, dddd said:

So there's nothing in the Bishop's handbook that says if someone has intercourse they have to wait a year before being endowed/sealed?

No, there is no set protocol anywhere.  It's all individual.  The sooner a person gets started, the sooner it's done.

2 minutes ago, dddd said:

 Because by that same logic then the year in between baptism and endowment being at least a year would also be individualized.

No, those are two completely different cases with two very different reasonings behind them.  

 

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1 minute ago, ABCDario said:

If you are asking specifically what you should do, that will depend on you and God.  I would pray about it, seek counsel from the Lord.

Not really asking what to do...just wondering if I should tell him to stop bringing up marriage because he brings it up a lot and I don't want to start progressing toward marriage if his Bishop would tell him wait a year.

Just not emotionally or physically wise imho.

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Just now, dddd said:

Not really asking what to do...just wondering if I should tell him to stop bringing up marriage because he brings it up a lot and I don't want to start progressing toward marriage if his Bishop would tell him wait a year.

Just not emotionally or physically wise imho.

Are you wanting to get married to him at some point though?  He should deal with this first, for certain, and I would tell him that until he resolves the issue, no matter how long it might take, he needs to do it.  For your part, you have to decide whether you are willing to wait for that process to occur or not.  Look at what you want and decide what to tell him based on that.

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21 minutes ago, dddd said:

And that's all good and fine, I get that. I just don't want to start planning to get engaged now only to learn it will be a year before I can do that, or however long ago it was that happened.

I can understand not wanting to get too serious before you both have some idea of his future (prophets have counseled against long engagements for a good reason).  But I will take a line from @anatess2's playbook and say that if you love him, regardless of your future together, your goal should be to help him come closer to Christ.  You should be able to do that regardless of whether you're friends or engaged or whatever.  And it should help your relationship.

That time could help both of you to grow in the gospel, as well as talk about things that people should talk about before they make a final decision on marriage (but which they don't seem to talk about much).

And, as mentioned, only the Lord can tell you how to handle your relationship with the man in question.  I wish you both the best, whatever it looks like.

11 minutes ago, dddd said:

So there's nothing in the Bishop's handbook that says if someone has intercourse they have to wait a year before being endowed/sealed? Because by that same logic then the year in between baptism and endowment being at least a year would also be individualized.

There are people who have been endowed in less than a year.  But you're looking at this too mechanically.  Waiting for the endowment is to give a person time to grow, gain a strong testimony, prepare, etc.  The timeframe of repentance is driven entirely by how well the person understands the consequences of their sin, how quickly they are able to restore what was taken (and yes, things were taken, like virtue), how quickly they can regain spiritual strength, sink into the depths of humility and experience true sorrow, how quickly they let the Savior heal their hearts, etc. etc.

NOTE: If there are guidelines for this sort of thing in HB1, I don't know it.  But I also think one shouldn't care - it's about him getting right with the Lord, that should be all you want - if you love him.

Edited by zil
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45 minutes ago, dddd said:

So there's nothing in the Bishop's handbook that says if someone has intercourse they have to wait a year before being endowed/sealed? Because by that same logic then the year in between baptism and endowment being at least a year would also be individualized.

What the handbook says about church discipline is that the purpose is:

1) save the soul of the transgressor

2) protect the innocent

3) safeguard the integrity of the church

Fornication is listed as something that may or may not need a Disciplinary Council to resolve.  A lot depends on the details of the individual case.  A one time mistake made in a moment of weakness or pressure, or out of ignorance,  is not the same thing as a long term pattern of deliberate rebellion.  He needs to go talk with his Bishop, and he doesn't need fear condemnation and judgment.  He will find compassion and help.  He will feel so much better even after the first talk.  God and his Bishop ache for his return to the fold and are there to help him, but he has to take the first step.  Satan will work to make him fear doing that but he has to find the courage to come back.His privacy will be respected, he won't be humiliated and shamed. 

A disciplinary council has the options of no action, an informal probation which would be restrictions like not being allowed to take the sacrament / exercise his priesthood / hold a calling until repentance is complete ,  a formal probation (further restrictions than an informal probation), disfellowshipment or excommunication. 

Given what you have said (which is all I know about it) I would think that excommunication is unlikely.  He has not made and broken temple covenants and was young at the time (I'm assuming that since he only had AP at the time), stopped it and feels bad about it, and all that works in his favor.  However I don't know the whole story and I'm not his Bishop so don't come back at me if things turn out differently. If he got a girl pregnant and helped her get an abortion that would not help for example.  If it was something that happened a long time ago and his life since then demonstrates he has changed that works in his favor as well.

The intention is not to punish somebody, it is to help them.  Sometimes a person reaches a point where the best thing for them is to start over from scratch, and that is where excommunication comes in.  Excommunicated members are not tossed aside, they are shepherded along the path back into the church if they are willing. 

Now if the situation is so bad that he is excommunicated, he would need to be re-baptized and he would have to wait a year after his re-baptism before he could go for his endowment same as any other convert.  He would be restored to his priesthood office right after his re-baptism.   If he is not excommunicated, then it will depend on how long it takes him to work out his repentance with the Bishop.  As it is right now there is no way he can get a temple recommend without out and out lying to the Lord's anointed and that is a pretty serous thing too.

Something you need to do is ask yourself what you are going to do if he refuses to confess.  Would you stand quite and let him get a temple recommend without saying anything knowing what you know?  What if he bails on the whole concept of a temple marriage to avoid confessing?  I know you don't want to think about those things, but you need to.

 

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2 hours ago, dddd said:

Great but what is the protocol?

I can't control what he did in the past. Or even what he does now. But it would help to be able to give him some expectations before he confesses, because he said he thinks he will be ex'ed.

He won't talk to the bishop because he's afraid he'll be ex'd?  He thinks not repenting is a better option?

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2 hours ago, dddd said:

I can't control what he did in the past. Or even what he does now. But it would help to be able to give him some expectations before he confesses, because he said he thinks he will be ex'ed.

To my knowledge Aaronic priesthood holders are pretty much never excommunicated for fornication.  I mean, he would at least have to be unrepentant before they would even consider it.  However, if I were you, I'd be more concerned about his lack of willingness to repent.  He needs to better understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the Gospel.

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Guest MormonGator

It's also good to remind him that we are all human, we all make mistakes, and forgiveness is possible even for grave sins. Just let him know that the atonement of Christ covers everything and redemption is possible!

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6 hours ago, dddd said:

My boyfriend slipped up and had sex with someone a few months before we started our relationship. He really wants to get married but hasn't talked to his bishop about it.  I know he's ashamed and maybe doesn't understand the full role of confession, as he's a fairly recent convert. I'm hesitant to progress our relationship because I don't know how long it would be before he could get his endowments and then get married, and he seems really eager to get to that point. Don't you have to wait a year? (Note: he had the Aaronic priesthood at the time he broke the law of chastity.)

Sup dddd,

I thiiiiink of swearing as a slip up. Maybe shopping on Sunday, I don't know. Fornication is a HUGE deal. That really takes some effort. Going into the Temple for the first time is one of the greatest commitments. In there you will need to be pure and eager to learn. You will be making VERY SERIOUS promises to the Lord and to each other. To get the full effect of going to the Temple you both need to be equally yoked. This can only happen if you are both committed to keeping the laws of God.

Right now his focus should be repenting and getting the Melchizedek Priesthood. Once he has made these steps, he will definitely be a better husband to you. Confessing before the servant of the Lord is about being humble and also so that someone can hold him accountable, follow up with him, as he overcomes this sin. You really want to make sure that the law of chastity is a law your future husband can handle before you marry him.  There really isn't another way I can sugar coat it.

Does everyone sin? Yup, but some sins can spell a world of trouble if not dealt with early on in the relationship. Maybe losing you will whip him into shape and save his soul.

"Brooke", I will call her, broke my heart and I hers. We both had been...  unwise during our youth and decided to be honest upfront with our crazy days before moving on in our relationship. After sharing our dirt, we just couldn't bear our disappointment with each others prior decisions and broke up. Years later we had moved on with our lives and ran into each other at an event. We stopped and then gave a each other a big, RESPECTFUL, tearful embrace. My family loved Brooke and I knew her brother from humanitarian aid service. It was a very sad thing when broke up, it was the price we paid for our disregarding the laws of God. We both began to speak and almost at the same time apologized for making those unwise decisions in our youth. It sounds so simple to just repent and get you what you want. At times that is not the case. Well, we gave each other a firm last look. Her sea blue eyes and natural platinum blonde hair faded away. Confidently we both moved forward on our separates paths of life. I thank the Heavens that I dated Brooke and that we cut each other down, to really realize the gravity of our past decisions. Being pure really is the way to go. Later after trials and making myself better I met my wife, with her Gorgeous silk hair and piercing blue eyes, and felt the Love of the Lord. That He did not forget about me and that He loved me enough to let me crash and burn. Today I am still burning with a testimony of the importance of following the Lord's counsel on the Law of Chastity.

Now, If you want to wait for him to get through with this trial then I wish you the best. I hope he gets to the Bishop soon. The sooner the better C :

Edited by Overwatch
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Speaking as someone who watches patterns, I would guess the chances of being excommunicated for something like that to be very, very low if he's humble and repentant.

That being said, even if he were to get excommunicated...  It's not the end of the world.  If that's what It takes to get right and have a clean slate then the sooner he gets it over with the better. 

Just rip off the band-aid.

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Guest MormonGator

A lot of people who make mistakes like this are scared to confess. I would be too, it's okay to be nervous and scared. Tell your boyfriend we are all praying for him! 

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51 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

A lot of people who make mistakes like this are scared to confess. I would be too, it's okay to be nervous and scared. Tell your boyfriend we are all praying for him! 

I agree with you 100%, I would definitely be scared, too.  However, in this case, if it were my spouse (or future spouse) who had done this thing, I would expect that her relationship with me would be more important to her than whatever Church discipline she might face.  If he is serious about marrying this woman, he should be willing to prove that he is sincerely seeking to move past his former mistakes, both to become clean and strengthen his relationship with the Lord, as well as to establish a foundation of trust and sincerity in the gospel at the outset of the relationship.

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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, person0 said:

I agree with you 100%, I would definitely be scared, too.  However, in this case, if it were my spouse (or future spouse) who had done this thing, I would expect that her relationship with me would be more important to her than whatever Church discipline she might face.  If he is serious about marrying this woman, he should be willing to prove that he is sincerely seeking to move past his former mistakes, both to become clean and strengthen his relationship with the Lord, as well as to establish a foundation of trust and sincerity in the gospel at the outset of the relationship.

Right, agree. I never said he shouldn't go to the bishop. Just that we all understand how worried he must be. 

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