Do you need tithe if you in debt?


JayKi
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Guest MormonGator
2 minutes ago, JayKi said:

But my debt is taken before I get the money through government agency so only way i can tithe is to go in more debt which no make sense.

You asked a question-I'm perfectly confident that being in debt does not effect if you should tithe or not.  

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3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

But my debt is taken before I get the money through government agency so only way i can tithe is to go in more debt which no make sense.

If you are receiving money from the government for something like paying tuition or healthcare costs, then it's possible that this money is not considered income.  In some cases, the government puts conditions on how you use the money and doesn't allow you to make charitable donations with it.

If it's a case of you are in so much debt that the government has garnished your wages, you should still pay tithing on your wages.

You should work with your bishop on this.

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3 minutes ago, Lee said:

To be honest my wife and I are terrible at tithing I don't think either of us have paid a full tithe in 5 years and we have never been pulled up on it. 

It should come up in tithing settlement and in temple recommend interviews.

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7 minutes ago, zil said:

It should come up in tithing settlement and in temple recommend interviews.

 

I suppose it is assumed I am paying a full tithe. I have never been asked for proof of my earnings. I meet my base salary tithing so it is only overtime I don't tithe on  and I guess the bishop doesn't know that. 

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2 minutes ago, Lee said:

I suppose it is assumed I am paying a full tithe. I have never been asked for proof of my earnings. I meet my base salary tithing so it is only overtime I don't tithe on  and I guess the bishop doesn't know that. 

The Lord does.  When the bishop asks if you are a full tithe payer, he's asking on behalf of the Lord.  The rest is your business, for better or worse.

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55 minutes ago, zil said:

If you are receiving money from the government for something like paying tuition or healthcare costs, then it's possible that this money is not considered income.  In some cases, the government puts conditions on how you use the money and doesn't allow you to make charitable donations with it.

If it's a case of you are in so much debt that the government has garnished your wages, you should still pay tithing on your wages.

You should work with your bishop on this.

It is so confusing but I pay tuition with Scholarship money but I  have a maintenance loan debt from British government that is taken before I get my pay cheque. So do I only tithe on my pay cheque pay or on my full pay 

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2 minutes ago, JayKi said:

It is so confusing but I pay tuition with Scholarship money but I  have a maintenance loan debt from British government that is taken before I get my pay cheque. So do I only tithe on my pay cheque pay or on my full pay 

Since I don't understand all that, and don't have any authority to interpret anything, I really think you should talk to your bishop. You need to come to a decision with the Lord that you feel like you can stand in front of Him and say you were honest in your tithing.  IMO, your bishop can help you with that kind of uncertainty better than the rest of us.

And someone in the UK who knows exactly what you're talking about can help you better than a bunch of Americans (which is the vast majority here, or so it appears).

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Just now, zil said:

Since I don't understand all that, and don't have any authority to interpret anything, I really think you should talk to your bishop. You need to come to a decision with the Lord that you feel like you can stand in front of Him and say you were honest in your tithing.  IMO, your bishop can help you with that kind of uncertainty better than the rest of us.

And someone in the UK who knows exactly what you're talking about can help you better than a bunch of Americans (which is the vast majority here, or so it appears).

I worried to ask him because I dont want to lose my temple recommend now because I get married in 5 weeks. 

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1 minute ago, JayKi said:

I worried to ask him because I dont want to lose my temple recommend now because I get married in 5 weeks. 

Doesn't this seem counter-productive to you?  At the end of the day, it's about your standing with the Lord.  Do you want to walk into the temple with confidence that you are right with God, or with fear and doubt?

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Guest MormonGator
13 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

By all means, feel free to lie (or strategically conceal) your way into the temple.

Are you telling me I should have told the bishop about my cocaine problem? 

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3 hours ago, Lee said:

 

I suppose it is assumed I am paying a full tithe. I have never been asked for proof of my earnings. I meet my base salary tithing so it is only overtime I don't tithe on  and I guess the bishop doesn't know that. 

 

3 hours ago, zil said:

The Lord does.  When the bishop asks if you are a full tithe payer, he's asking on behalf of the Lord.  The rest is your business, for better or worse.

What Zil said.  The Bishop won't ask you what your earnings are, typically.  What you tithe is between you and God.  The Bishop just expects you to be honest.   

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1 hour ago, JayKi said:

I no want to lie but I fed up of all obstacles I have just to be married to my fiancee.

There are no obstacles.  You must be worthy to enter the temple.  They are only obstacles if you are trying to get around them instead of follow them.

That said, I think by "debt" you mean you aren't working but are living off student loans that you will be required to pay back.  Is that correct?  If so, then talk to your Bishop about that.  I know people that don't tithe on loans.  

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12 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I know people that don't tithe on loans.

Yeah, a loan is not income, it's future outflow.  You tithe the money you use to pay the loan.  When I got a mortgage, I didn't tithe the money that went to the home builder.  I tithed my income which was used to pay back the mortgage.

What's unclear is whether Jayki has a regular job and a government loan, and the government loan is being paid out of his regular income before he gets his cut (like garnered wages in the US), and what's left (I assume something is left) isn't sufficient for him to both pay tithing and live.  If so, he should go to his bishop - this is what the welfare system is for; but you still pay tithing.

Or... he only has the government loan and the amount he receives isn't enough after tuition, or something...?  Not clear.  Hence, he needs someone in-country who knows exactly what's going on...

I also know a couple people who take the "annually" part of the scripture in D&C literally and don't pay any tithing until the end of the year, and then pay it in bulk (usually consultants who don't earn steady income).  Varying opinions on net rather than gross, on gift money, SS, retirement, HSAs, etc., etc.

The internet doesn't seem like the right place to find good counsel.  Study the scriptures, talk to someone you can trust with all the facts, then consult with the Lord and decide.

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Say you make $1000/ month.  You have only $1000 savings.  You use this savings to put a down payment on a used car that costs $10,000.

You are now $9000 in debt.  However, you now have an increase of a $10,000 car.

So even though you are in debt, your increase has not changed.

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So you pay tithe on your increase.  Say you own a $100k house and it burns to the ground.  And insurance doesn't cover it for whatever reason.  It is a $100k loss.

Now suppose you make $40k/year.

Your net increase is a -60K.   Would you pay tithing?  How much.

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27 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

Say you make $1000/ month.  You have only $1000 savings.  You use this savings to put a down payment on a used car that costs $10,000.

You are now $9000 in debt.  However, you now have an increase of a $10,000 car.

So even though you are in debt, your increase has not changed.

I would say that is not a $10,000 increase because the bank still has a lein on it.  You only own as much of that car as you have equity in it.  You gain equity at the  rate you make payments (less depreciation).  Those payments come out of your monetary income.  Therefore, it is logical to simply pay tithing on your income.

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2 hours ago, JayKi said:

I no want to lie but I fed up of all obstacles I have just to be married to my fiancee.

I don't want to lie but I really want to go to the Temple so I won't tell my Bishop about my occasional 420 use.

Or my vodka use.

Or the cup of coffee I have every morning before work.

Or the fact that I haven't paid tithing and I just don't want to lose my recommend. 

I also don't bother paying child support but that's okay my Bishop doesn't need to know because I just really want to go to the Temple.

Oh, wait... maybe what I WANT doesn't excuse my being a liar.

Edited by unixknight
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9 hours ago, zil said:

What's unclear is whether Jayki has a regular job and a government loan, and the government loan is being paid out of his regular income before he gets his cut (like garnered wages in the US), and what's left (I assume something is left) isn't sufficient for him to both pay tithing and live.  If so, he should go to his bishop - this is what the welfare system is for; but you still pay tithing.

 

Is no whats left I can still live on and tithe but if I have to tithe on my pay before the loan repayment goes it is more than what my final pay is. 

Edited by JayKi
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