Is it time to move to gospel doctrine


edakanari
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

I need some advice I've been a member of the church for the last eight months . I have recently found my attention is seriously wavering in the gospel principles class.  

I studied theology at university and read through the gospel principle manual fully by myself . We have been blessed with a lot of new converts recently so we're going over the Beginning lessons mostly . I I keep zoning out during these lessons I have heard them several times before as I also teach young women .

I am thinking of going to gospel doctrine and I think this will be more challenging and stimulating so this will help me to grow

 

So this is where I want your experience guys what is normal in your words and how long will you in the principles class 

Edited by edakanari
Text and spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gospel Doctrine is set to run for a year.

Some people need more, some people need less.

If you feel ready to move on then maybe you are... Discuss it with your local leaders because they know you (and your progress) better then we possibly can

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

The classes aren't that formal. Like you, I also studied theology in college (it was my minor) and I found the first class a little dull too. Eventually I just wandered into the other one and no one cared. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, edakanari said:

Hi all,

I need some advice I've been a member of the church for the last eight months . I have recently found my attention is seriously wavering in the gospel principles class.  

I studied theology at university and read through the gospel principle manual fully by myself . We have been blessed with a lot of new converts recently so we're going over the Beginning lessons mostly . I I keep zoning out during these lessons I have heard them several times before as I also teach young women .

I am thinking of going to gospel doctrine and I think this will be more challenging and stimulating so this will help me to grow

 

So this is where I want your experience guys what is normal in your words and how long will you in the principles class 

Just remember Gospel Doctrine rotates back to the same thing every 4 years. So extended learning is on your own. At this time it is crucial to remember that even if you discover something that is not plainly listed in canon  doctrine you pretty much have to keep it to yourself. Share it at your own risk as scripture fiends will tear you apart and judge since they, being so righteous, haven't been revealed it, it must be false.  I tell you this so that you don't disregard revelation from the Lord that he gives to you. Also remember the Prophets lead and if you got the information they most likely have already received it. Prophets divulge information as the masses are ready to receive it and if it is pertinent to salvation; we already have the base knowledge to receive exaltation (extending learning is for the happiness of the individual and personal knowledge collection)

Even though our prophets are imperfect and sometimes do stupid things, it is our responsibility to honor the order God gives to the Church. It is our "chain of command". Obviously if any servants do anything contrary to the gospel they are not above the Law of the land or church disciplinary system. NEVER be afraid to question but remember to be civil and understanding. Even though we have holy men I have found that most if not all mortal men RIGHT NOW don't have all the answers. There will be some questions, that you have, that will never be answered in this life. 

Congratulations on moving forward with your ecclesiastical studies.  

Edited by Overwatch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/1/2018 at 7:35 AM, Overwatch said:

Just remember Gospel Doctrine rotates back to the same thing every 4 years. Until the end of December we are studying the Old Testament.

So extended learning is on your own. Always we are encouraged to stretch our learning. I purchased the Institute Manuals that were available at the time - back in 1999-2000, Old Testament, New Testament and Book of Mormon. They have probably been updated by now, but they pretty much have all the same knowledge.

At this time it is crucial to remember that even if you discover something that is not plainly listed in canon  doctrine you pretty much have to keep it to yourself. Share it at your own risk as scripture fiends will tear you apart and judge since they, being so righteous, haven't been revealed it, it must be false. Poppycock - share and ask away, how else will you learn and grow spiritually?

I tell you this so that you don't disregard revelation from the Lord that he gives to you. Ask, ponder the answers you are given, pray to ask if these answers are correct. We are taught and encouraged to do this whether the answers come from a member of the church or from the Lord. Ask in earnest prayer, then listen for His answers.

Also remember the Prophets lead and if you got the information they most likely have already received it. Prophets divulge information as the masses are ready to receive it and if it is pertinent to salvation; we already have the base knowledge to receive exaltation (extending learning is for the happiness of the individual and personal knowledge collection) Oy vey - what a way to express that the Prophet leads us, and teaches us, and expresses revelation given him from God as God so expresses/wills/wishes.

Even though our prophets are imperfect and sometimes do stupid things, it is our responsibility to honor the order God gives to the Church. Our prophets are Human. They are not perfect or without sin as Jesus was. 

It is our "chain of command". Line of Authority

Obviously if any servants do you mean to include ALL members here, or just the Prophets? do anything contrary to the gospel they are not above the Law of the land Disobeying a law of the land does not necessarily result in one also disobeying any of your covenants with the Lord, nor will it be brought before a church disciplinary council. or church disciplinary system. NEVER be afraid to question but remember to be civil and understanding., but do so with respect and accept the class leaders request to wait for a more detailed answer from him/her after class.

Even though we have holy men I have found that most if not all mortal men RIGHT NOW don't have all the answers.Our Prophets - yes, plural because not only is Thomas S. Monson ((oops it is Russell M. Nelson)) the Lords living Prophet of the World & President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-days,  his two councilors - Dallin H. Oaks and Henry B. Eyring and the Quorum  of the Twelve https://www.lds.org/church/leaders?lang=eng are Prophets, Seers and Revelators. If you really pay attention to the conference talks, firesides, the news coming directly from the LDS Church you will learn that they all point out that they are imperfect. They all teach, encourage and stress that we must strive towards being perfect as our Lord God is perfect. 

Be Ye Therefore Perfect -Eventually

There will be some questions, that you have, that will never be answered in this life. True, even to the most learned in the Church, the Prophets, Seers, Revelators, Apostles, etc. there will be questions that will only be answered AFTER the second coming of Christ.

Congratulations on moving forward with your ecclesiastical studies.  

Oh Vey - my comments are in RED within his quote.

Quote

@edakanari you said: I am thinking of going to gospel doctrine and I think this will be more challenging and stimulating so this will help me to grow

So this is where I want your experience guys what is normal in your words and how long will you in the principles class  

I was 8 when my eldest brother joined the church, so to me there was no thought to *graduating* on to the next class at the beginning of each year.

By all means, go to Gospel Doctrine class. Find out at the end of class what the next lesson will be, then go to Old Testament gospel doctrine teachers manual

and study away. Here is another link that I use in addition The Gospel Doctrine Class by Beardall , what I love about this one is he adds well documented in doctrine facts. In Gospel Doctrine we study the 4 parts of our Scriptures. This year it is the Old Testament. Next year the New Testament, following that Doctrine & Covenants and Church History, then Book of Mormon. Follow this link: LDS Old Testament Manual  and study away. You can also go to the online store and purchase whatever study guides are available, or if you live near a Deseret Book Store, go there to get the books, manuals. The Study Guides, Our Heritage and the Gospel Principles books are available for FREE from your Ward/Branch Library. Do Not Let The Librarian Charge You Money For Any Of Those Items. They are FREE, One per member. 

Edited by Iggy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Madame

6 minutes ago, Iggy said:

Poppycock - share and ask away, how else will you learn and grow spiritually?

Lol. I did this before, didn't end well. You can't ask taboo questions like blacks and the priesthood. I did this before the be one program, years ago. It just made people uncomfortable and even the bishop didn't have answers for me (let's not get into this topic again past this as the other thread someone posted was deleted)

10 minutes ago, Iggy said:

Oy vey - what a way to express that the Prophet leads us, and teaches us, and expresses revelation given him from God as God so expresses/wills/wishes

By all means jazz it up.

11 minutes ago, Iggy said:

do you mean to include ALL members here, or just the Prophets?

Anyone in leadership. From the Bishop to the Relief Society president.

13 minutes ago, Iggy said:

Disobeying a law of the land does not necessarily result in one also disobeying any of your covenants with the Lord, nor will it be brought before a church disciplinary council.

I have no idea what kind laws you are thinking about Iggy. I am talking obvious laws like: Rape, theft, abuse, etc...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

Hello Madame

Lol. I did this before, didn't end well. You can't ask taboo questions like blacks and the priesthood. I did this before the be one program, years ago. It just made people uncomfortable and even the bishop didn't have answers for me (let's not get into this topic again past this as the other thread someone posted was deleted)

By all means jazz it up.

Anyone in leadership. From the Bishop to the Relief Society president.

I have no idea what kind laws you are thinking about Iggy. I am talking obvious laws like: Rape, theft, abuse, etc...

 

It is Sister Iggy to you.  Yes you can ask those questions, as long as you ask in a respectful way. If you ask questions that you got from hateful anti-mormon sites, then yes you are going to get *shut down*. I have asked those questions in Gospel Doctrine, Relief Society and sometimes at 5th Sunday. No one got their "panties" all twisted over it. I was answered, and sometime the answer was, Quote- I don't know- end Quote. Or, Quote - That hasn't been revealed yet - end Quote. To date I have yet to discover exactly what questions are Taboo. Certainly it isn't about blacks (people of color) and the priesthood. THAT has certainly been answered by the 1st Presidency and a slew of Apostles.

I asked if he meant to include all members or just the Prophets. @Overwatch reply Anyone in leadership. From the Bishop to the Relief Society president. With 58 years of membership under my belt - I would say - ALL MEMBERS, not just restrict it to any in leadership roles. In my experience, about the only thing that will get you before a Church Disciplinary Council is sexual misconduct whether you are in a leadership calling or not. Since I don't know anyone who has gone before the Council for any other thing - I can't state what other things there might be.

@Overwatch to be Nit-Picky, Rape, theft, abuse, etc... are NOT laws, they are actions. Actions against others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sup Iggs

8 minutes ago, Iggy said:

Certainly it isn't about blacks (people of color) and the priesthood. THAT has certainly been answered by the 1st Presidency and a slew of Apostles

Finally it has

8 minutes ago, Iggy said:

In my experience, about the only thing that will get you before a Church Disciplinary Council is sexual misconduct whether you are in a leadership calling or not. Since I don't know anyone who has gone before the Council for any other thing - I can't state what other things there might be.

I sat in a sacrament meeting where an ex Bishop was getting the holy ghost again after getting re-baptized. He was excommunicated for stealing tithing

 

8 minutes ago, Iggy said:

to be Nit-Picky

Nit-Pick all you want Madam

Edited by Overwatch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/1/2018 at 9:24 PM, Iggy said:

You can also go to the online store and purchase whatever study guides are available, or if you live near a Deseret Book Store, go there to get the books, manuals. The Study Guides, Our Heritage and the Gospel Principles books are available for FREE from your Ward/Branch Library. Do Not Let The Librarian Charge You Money For Any Of Those Items. They are FREE, One per member. 

By all means, if you haven’t, download the lds gospel library app. Most lesson manuals and study guides produced by the church are available for download. Not to mention all General Conferences and church magazines since 1971 and the scriptures. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BJ64 said:

By all means, if you haven’t, download the lds gospel library app. Most lesson manuals and study guides produced by the church are available for download. Not to mention all General Conferences and church magazines since 1971 and the scriptures. 

Quite a few people still like and prefer the paper versions. I am one of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Iggy said:

Quite a few people still like and prefer the paper versions. I am one of them.

I mentioned this as a way to access a lot of study materials at no cost. However I hate printed materials. The only thing I take to church is my iPhone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/1/2018 at 8:02 AM, estradling75 said:

Gospel Doctrine is set to run for a year.

Some people need more, some people need less.

If you feel ready to move on then maybe you are... Discuss it with your local leaders because they know you (and your progress) better then we possibly can

I think you meant Gospel Principles. Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/30/2018 at 8:52 PM, edakanari said:

I am thinking of going to gospel doctrine and I think this will be more challenging and stimulating so this will help me to grow

Sounds good.  Here's the "I'm a random stranger butting in on the internet to tell you what to do" test.  Answer all these questions.  No links, no sources.  Answer these from memory:

- Who is God?  Describe the nature of the Godhood
- What happened in our premortal existence?
- What is our nature?  Why are we on earth?
- What are commandments, and name the biggest two.
- What is Repentance?
- How do we gain forgiveness?
- What is the atonement?
- What happens in the latter-days?  How is that different from what happens in the last days?
- What's the millenium?
- What happens after we die?
- What is the resurrection of man, and how does it work?

If you pass the test, go for it - Gospel Doctrine may indeed be a bit more stimulating for you.  If you don't pass the test, stay in Gospel Principles.  If you get any wrong, then humble yourself and no really, stay in Gospel Principles.

:)

Edited by NeuroTypical
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Thanks guys after all that i was waiting to see bishop on sunday during middle session that was GP/GD so the teacher came and asked why i was not in class anymore so i told him been in class 9 months and gone over back lessons already and found GD more challanging.

 

He seemed to take offence at this saying i should be and that i need bishops permission for the move ( 1st councillor of bishopry encourage me to go the GD as he could was becoming disengaged with GP).Then stated if i EVER got a basic thing wrong ever he would pull me on it....ok

So the set up in our ward is small only 50-70 members of congregation all in each week (kids included) so as you can imagian we have 30+ under 18s so only 40+ adults most in GD but GP is a hit and a miss some weeks we had no people and this week 15+ people due to new coverts and investigators.  So dunno what his problem was ... does anyone have a similar experience or asking bishop to leave GP that seems... unlikely

Teacher is 80 +man who been in church 40 odd years as a brother i respect the time he has been in the church but he doesn't seem to give that back to the newer members

Edited by edakanari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@edakanari I recognize this GP teacher! I have encountered this person in different genders and of different ages but they are usually older. Every group of people has a few people who start making up their own rules. They are a pain to share a laundry room with, in a gardening club they would come round to inspect your herbaceous borders. I had one GP teacher who, in one lesson, made up her own doctrine. 

Ignore this person. They have overstepped their authority. There is a scripture verse that says that giving some people a little authority causes them to abuse that authority. 

Enjoy GD and as an added benefit, you get to leave the GP teacher. You are not a kindergarten student! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@edakanari I recognize this GP teacher! I have encountered this person in different genders and of different ages but they are usually older. Every group of people has a few people who start making up their own rules. They are a pain to share a laundry room with, in a gardening club they would come round to inspect your herbaceous borders. I had one GP teacher who, in one lesson, made up her own doctrine. 

Ignore this person. They have overstepped their authority. There is a scripture verse that says that giving some people a little authority causes them to abuse that authority. 

Enjoy GD and as an added benefit, you get to leave the GP teacher. You are not a kindergarten student! 

You are totally right !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, edakanari said:

He seemed to take offence at this saying i should be and that i need bishops permission for the move ( 1st councillor of bishopry encourage me to go the GD as he could was becoming disengaged with GP).Then stated if i EVER got a basic thing wrong ever he would pull me on it....ok

Wow.  Bad teacher.  Bad, bad teacher.  Take a rolled up newspaper on Sunday and use it to smack him on the nose. :rolleyes:

...Or go the other route and tell him he's such a good teacher that you just flew through the class as if you were hying1 to Kolob and can't wait for when they call him as GD teacher. ;)

1What an awkward verb to ingify.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess my perspective is a bit different.  It seems to me that given @edakanari‘s academic background, (s)he is unlikely to find *any* of the Church’s Sunday curriculum to be particularly intellectually challenging.  Personally I am slowly coming to the notion that the value of Sunday School is primarily communitarian, not pedagogical—a chance to see how others approach different Gospel topics and to build spiritual camaraderie with other class members.  In that light, it may have been beneficial to both the OP and other class members if (s)he had kept going to the class for a while longer to provide much-needed support to other new members who are in the same boat that the OP is.  And if the OP was the only person attending the class—the teacher’s taking umbrage at the absence of his sole and star pupil (rendering his own calling obsolete) is, if inappropriate, at least human!

Anyways—there’s a lot I don’t know about the situation; so take this for what you paid for it. ;) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like Sunday School. Ok, I am of low normal IQ...but I read the manual and some church related books like Ridges as we cover the material. I find the classes to be interesting and informative. My instructor discusses questions with the class and facilitates rather than lecturing. I am an adult convert and I find the material to be interpreted differenty then in other churchs. To me, Sunday School is a convivial addition to individual study. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I guess my perspective is a bit different.  It seems to me that given @edakanari‘s academic background, (s)he is unlikely to find *any* of the Church’s Sunday curriculum to be particularly intellectually challenging.  Personally I am slowly coming to the notion that the value of Sunday School is primarily communitarian, not pedagogical—a chance to see how others approach different Gospel topics and to build spiritual camaraderie with other class members.  In that light, it may have been beneficial to both the OP and other class members if (s)he had kept going to the class for a while longer to provide much-needed support to other new members who are in the same boat that the OP is.  And if the OP was the only person attending the class—the teacher’s taking umbrage at the absence of his sole and star pupil (rendering his own calling obsolete) is, if inappropriate, at least human! 

Anyways—there’s a lot I don’t know about the situation; so take this for what you paid for it. ;) 

This is interesting, JAG.  Now I'm going to have to ponder the various teaching methods I've seen at church and ponder whether there are "communitarian" ways to tweak them.

(The teacher-threatening-outbound-student bit was enough to blind me to all other considerations - really, I don't take threats well.  A person could easily keep me out of heaven simply by threatening to drag me in.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share