Satan's introduction of evil into the world


theplains
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22 hours ago, theplains said:

I believe Adam and Eve both sinned when they disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden (many LDS teachings also state this) so I
don't honor them for what some would consider a wise choice.  As for the idea Adam partook to remain with Eve, there is no
scriptural evidence that Adam and Eve knew they were going to be expelled from the Garden until God pronounced judgment on
both of them at the same time. Also, there is no indication Adam would forever remain single in the Garden had he chosen to
remain obedient to God.

Jim

The LDS teachings that "state this" do not carry the same significance that your teachings do.

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23 hours ago, theplains said:

I believe Adam and Eve both sinned when they disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden (many LDS teachings also state this) so I
don't honor them for what some would consider a wise choice.  As for the idea Adam partook to remain with Eve, there is no
scriptural evidence that Adam and Eve knew they were going to be expelled from the Garden until God pronounced judgment on
both of them at the same time. Also, there is no indication Adam would forever remain single in the Garden had he chosen to
remain obedient to God.

Jim

 

I am trying to be sure to understand exactly your point of view.  Are you saying that it is a sin to pursue knowledge of good and evil and the difference.  Do you believe G-d has the knowledge of good and evil?  Does that knowledge of good and evil make G-d a sinner?

 

The Traveler

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9 hours ago, Traveler said:

I am trying to be sure to understand exactly your point of view.  Are you saying that it is a sin to pursue knowledge of good and evil and the difference.  Do you believe G-d has the knowledge of good and evil?  Does that knowledge of good and evil make G-d a sinner?

The Traveler

I believe seeking knowledge beyond the boundary set by God was the beginning of their downfall. This plus the fact that they
didn't believe God when he said they would die when they ate from the forbidden tree.

Do you believe God really wanted them to eat from the forbidden tree?

Have you ever disobeyed God and then received blessings for disobedience?

Jim

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22 minutes ago, theplains said:

I believe seeking knowledge beyond the boundary set by God was the beginning of their downfall. This plus the fact that they
didn't believe God when he said they would die when they ate from the forbidden tree.

Do you believe God really wanted them to eat from the forbidden tree?

Have you ever disobeyed God and then received blessings for disobedience?

Jim

Maybe I missed something, but are you LDS?

As for your question on whether God wanted them to eat it. I don’t have a perfect answer, but I do find the opposite option far more disbelievable. To not believe God intended them to partake of the fruit is believe either (a) God did not know Adam and Eve would partake of the fruit and it was all a mistake on his part, (b) They were not suppose to but Satan’s temptation was too strong for god to prevent and so they did partake and followed Satan or (c) God accidentally put the Tree there and wasn’t able to remove it.

Could you come up with a believable explanation that satisfies the claim “God did not intend Adam and Eve to partake” but doesn’t breach the boundaries of what we know of God?

Edited by Fether
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On 7/4/2018 at 11:01 AM, theplains said:

Also, there is no indication Adam would forever remain single in the Garden had he chosen to
remain obedient to God.

Except for scripture

2 Nephi 2:22-24

”22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.”

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55 minutes ago, theplains said:

I believe seeking knowledge beyond the boundary set by God was the beginning of their downfall. This plus the fact that they
didn't believe God when he said they would die when they ate from the forbidden tree.

Do you believe God really wanted them to eat from the forbidden tree?

Have you ever disobeyed God and then received blessings for disobedience?

Jim

I believe seeking knowledge beyond the boundary set by God was the beginning of their downfall.

The overarching principle being taught here is true. The application applied to Adam and Eve appears to be incorrect.

1) We don't know what boundary of knowledge the Lord set upon Adam and Eve. The commandment was simply not to partake, nothing is mentioned regarding a boundary of knowledge or how much knowledge God was willing to give, as nothing in scripture references Adam and Eve knowing they would be cast out.

2) In Genesis chapter 3 verse 7, we are informed as to what knowledge they immediately received upon partaking of the fruit. "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked." The limit at this time, boundary according to what you are presenting, is that Adam and Eve did not even know they were naked. After partaking of the fruit their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked.

So, knowing the difference between being naked and naive to your nakedness you feel is beyond the boundaries of knowledge God wants us to have? That would be very odd if so.

This plus the fact that they didn't believe God when he said they would die when they ate from the forbidden tree.

This isn't a fact from scripture, this is an assumption. Adam and Eve both knew the commandment that they would die. The adversary lied, and deceived Eve. Adam partook to remain with Eve and to multiply and replenish the earth. Adam fell that man might be and man are that they might have joy. 

What we don't know is to what knowledge Adam and Eve had pertaining to what death was. At this point Adam and Eve did not even know the difference between being naked and clothed. When they partook they knew they were naked and clothed themselves. Death is a much more abstract concept especially if you have never experienced it before. At this point Adam and Eve never experienced death, nor did they see anyone die.

It is thus a fact and very clear you are making an assumption/speculation from scripture that appears to be false/incorrect.

Do you believe God really wanted them to eat from the forbidden tree?

God wanted to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of his sons and daughters. God full well knew what needed to happen in order for this to occur. Adam and Eve's eyes were opened after partaking that scripture reveals, "Wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things. Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy."

I learned a valuable lesson while working at the MTC (Missionary Training Center). A lesson about how a leader could say "I forbid" this action, while recognizing the importance of an action even if it breaks a rule. The rule was, teachers were not allowed to be on campus after 10pm. That was the rule, the law of the MTC. One day I came out of class at 9:45pm to experience a confrontation between two Elders (something expected to happen when dealing with 19 year olds who are learning). One of the Elders ran out without his companion. As he was alone, I walked out after him. After 15 minutes with him I finally calmed him down. We then went for a walk to discuss his frustrations and what was happening. As we were walking it was about 10:20pm (I was trying to walk him to his room) we walked past a security guard. The security guard asked me to leave, but I remained with the Elder. I could tell by this security guard that this Elder would probably run again so I remained knowing full well I was in violation of the rule. Long story short, the security guard asked me this question, "So you think everyone else has to obey the rule but you"? I replied no, "I am making sure this Elder is OK." The security guards boss came and when he came I felt it was good now for me to leave.

First, I had no desire to break a rule.

Second, I still broke the rule.

At this moment I understood the dilemma Adam was confronted with. I broke a rule, while keeping the 2nd great commandment. To love our neighbor as ourselves. The next day I was brought into the director's office who asked about the incident. I explained to him what happened, and his response, "I see nothing wrong, even though you broke a rule:" 

Have you ever disobeyed God and then received blessings for disobedience?

This is another aspect where the overarching principle is true, but not in application with Adam and Eve. We do not receive blessings via disobedience; however, what some might consider disobedience from their perspective doesn't mean they do not receive blessings. Adam and Eve were not blessed for their decision. They in fact received the punishment God specified along with other consequences to their decision.

And yet, we do at times find ourselves within the "Ox and mire," and at these times understanding which law is better to be kept is the most important. We are in direct disobedience to one command while reaping a blessing of the other commandment.

Adam and Eve reaped the punishment affixed for partaking of the fruit. Adam and Eve also received the blessing of being able to have children, and to learn the difference between the bitter and sweet. "Wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things. Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy."

I am satisfied knowing all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things. We truly live in a wonderful generation where God has once again called prophets and that we receive continued revelation today as the prophets received in the Old Testament, and how prophets and apostles in the New Testament. Glorious and terrible times we live in!

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3 hours ago, theplains said:

I believe seeking knowledge beyond the boundary set by God was the beginning of their downfall. This plus the fact that they
didn't believe God when he said they would die when they ate from the forbidden tree.

Do you believe God really wanted them to eat from the forbidden tree?

Have you ever disobeyed God and then received blessings for disobedience?

Jim

 

I do believe G-d wanted Adam and Eve to learn and understand good from evil.  I believe G-d intends for you to gain that knowledge as well.  Obviously there is a great deal of symbolism in the Eden epoch.  Obviously G-d knew man (Adam and Eve) would need to be redeemed just as you and I need redemption.   I do not believe for a second that seeking knowledge of good and evil was a problem - I believe the problem (transgression) was that they were deceived by the serpent (Satan). 

Let me ask you a question - would parents be complicit if they in full knowledge of what would happen left their children alone with a child molester?   If the fruit of the tree was so important why would a loving and caring G-d, that can see the future, purposely leave his children alone with Satan?

To answer your question about blessings for disobedience - I believe the sun shins and the rain falls on both the obedient and disobedient.   The whole concept of mercy revolves around blessings for those that were once disobedient.  I think most miss a few things in their understanding of the Garden epoch and how this all plays into G-d's plan for the salvation of man.

 

The Traveler

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On 7/1/2018 at 4:15 PM, theplains said:

The current version of Gospel Principles omits this statement so I refer back to the 1997 version.  
Chapter 6, page 33 says, "Because of their transgression, Adam and Eve also suffered spiritual 
death. This meant they and their children could not walk and talk face to face with God. Because 
Satan had introduced evil into the world, Adam and Eve and their children were separated from God 
both physically and spiritually
."

How did Satan introduce evil into the world?

The Religion 327 - The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual says, "Some Christians condemn Eve for 
her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! 
Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode, 
called the Fall
... "

If you consider any temptation to disobey God to be evil, it is wise to honour someone who follows evil?

Thanks,
Jim

Can anybody tell me if the following insight is kosher... .to Latter Day Saints?

It sure looks to be accurate to me!

Richard Eby, near-death.com:

 

Quote

 

Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed 'adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony 'sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!"

 

 

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16 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Adam and Eve both knew the commandment that they would die. The adversary lied, and deceived Eve., that they might have joy."

Why do you think Eve chose to believe Satan instead of God?   I think the devil's real temptation was to convince her that
she could become a god and her desire got the best of her.

Jim

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15 hours ago, Traveler said:

Let me ask you a question - would parents be complicit if they in full knowledge of what would happen left their children alone with a child molester?   If the fruit of the tree was so important why would a loving and caring G-d, that can see the future, purposely leave his children alone with Satan?

Your comparison of a child molester is not appropriate unless the child made a consent to be molested.  God left Adam
and Eve alone with Satan because Satan could not harm them if they remained obedient to Him.  As the New Testament
teaches, God is even able to provide a way out in our own temptations ... if we choose to follow Him.

Jim

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33 minutes ago, theplains said:

Why do you think Eve chose to believe Satan instead of God?   I think the devil's real temptation was to convince her that
she could become a god and her desire got the best of her.

Jim

Well let's review from scriptures what the adversary's temptation were:

1) He denied that they would die if they partook (this was Satan's lie)

2) He explains that God knows if they eat their eyes will be opened and they will be as the god's knowing good from evil.

We know from scripture that the "eyes being opened" did occur, and we know the lie because they did indeed die.  Satan's temptation doesn't appear to tempt Eve that she could become a God, but that she would be "as" the gods knowing good from evil as her eyes would be opened -- and they were opened.

Now let's review from scripture the reasons given for Eve partaking of the fruit of good and evil:

1) The tree was good for food (satisfy hunger, and appetite of the flesh)

2) The fruit was pleasant to the eyes (I am assuming here this would mean that the fruit simply looked good to eat, sorda like when I see fresh cut pineapple from Costco)

3) And something that would make her wise (this being Satan's temptation of her eyes being opened "as" the Gods)

Nothing in here suggest that Eve was tempted such that she "could" become a God. Her desire for food, something pleasing to they eye, and something that would make her wise did indeed get the best of her. Anything outside of this would be a personal belief and that is fine as long as we admit it as you have with your opening phrase, "I think."

I personally don't see any indication that she knew or was tempted to "become" a God. She was tempted with food and wisdom, which would be different than becoming a God, even if that would be the outcome of her and Adam's decision. She didn't even know she was naked, but somehow knew she would become a God by eating the fruit? Not sure if that is truth, doesn't appear to be truth, but surely she wanted to be wise.

 

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3 hours ago, theplains said:

Why do you think Eve chose to believe Satan instead of God?   I think the devil's real temptation was to convince her that
she could become a god and her desire got the best of her.

Jim

I think “believe” is a strong word; she was beguiled (according to scripture). Innocent people are beguiled because they lack experience, and may be deceived to fulfill legitimate desires in unapproved ways. The temptation of record came from the attractive physical and spiritual properties of the fruit as well as the devil’s encouragement and deception which contradicted one of the Lord’s four commandments.

3 hours ago, theplains said:

Your comparison of a child molester is not appropriate unless the child made a consent to be molested.  God left Adam
and Eve alone with Satan because Satan could not harm them if they remained obedient to Him.  As the New Testament
teaches, God is even able to provide a way out in our own temptations ... if we choose to follow Him.

Jim

LDS teachings are that as pre-mortal spirits, Adam and Eve were taught the Plan of Salvation and chose to come to Eden with the veil of forgetfulness, just as Jesus chose to be our Savior and Satan chose to rebel. So they, as we, chose to enter a world where Satan would continue his campaign against God.

The Old (yes, there’s one verse) and New Testament teachings on deliverance from temptation were not given to Adam and Eve in Eden.

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On 7/1/2018 at 2:15 PM, theplains said:

If you consider any temptation to disobey God to be evil, it is wise to honour someone who follows evil?

Thanks,
Jim

It was evil for men to crucify a completely sinless man.  Yet his suffering and death were part of the plan.  And we praise and honor, even worship Him for going through it.  And we show utter gratitude for the results of the Atonement.

It was evil for Satan to tempt Eve.  And it was even a transgression for her to make the choice.  But we show gratitude for the results of the fall as a necessary step in the plan.

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On 7/6/2018 at 5:26 PM, Anddenex said:

Well let's review from scriptures what the adversary's temptation were:

1) He denied that they would die if they partook (this was Satan's lie)

2) He explains that God knows if they eat their eyes will be opened and they will be as the god's knowing good from evil.

We know from scripture that the "eyes being opened" did occur, and we know the lie because they did indeed die.  Satan's temptation doesn't appear to tempt Eve that she could become a God, but that she would be "as" the gods knowing good from evil as her eyes would be opened -- and they were opened.

Now let's review from scripture the reasons given for Eve partaking of the fruit of good and evil:

1) The tree was good for food (satisfy hunger, and appetite of the flesh)

2) The fruit was pleasant to the eyes (I am assuming here this would mean that the fruit simply looked good to eat, sorda like when I see fresh cut pineapple from Costco)

3) And something that would make her wise (this being Satan's temptation of her eyes being opened "as" the Gods)

Nothing in here suggest that Eve was tempted such that she "could" become a God. Her desire for food, something pleasing to they eye, and something that would make her wise did indeed get the best of her. Anything outside of this would be a personal belief and that is fine as long as we admit it as you have with your opening phrase, "I think."

I personally don't see any indication that she knew or was tempted to "become" a God. She was tempted with food and wisdom, which would be different than becoming a God, even if that would be the outcome of her and Adam's decision. She didn't even know she was naked, but somehow knew she would become a God by eating the fruit? Not sure if that is truth, doesn't appear to be truth, but surely she wanted to be wise.

Based on your explanation of what “good for food” is, I don’t think Eve was tempted with food to satisfy
her hunger as she already had plenty of other trees to eat from. I would say that besides getting her to
disbelieve what God had said, Satan also tempted Eve by insinuating it was unfair of God to withhold
something from her.

The 1997 GP says, "All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become
like him—a god
.).  I think Satan dangled this temptation (becoming as deity) in front of her instead of the
way ‘god’ (non-deity) is used of him in 2 Corinthians 4:4.

This is the second time pleasure is mentioned before the Fall.  First, God made trees that were pleasant
to the sight of man and then the second where Eve experienced pleasure before partaking.  There is
scriptural support for Adam and Eve feeling pleasure (joy) before they had experience misery.

Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat from that tree?

Why weren’t Eve’s eyes opened the moment she ate and before Adam ate?

Thanks,
Jim

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On 7/7/2018 at 8:48 AM, Carborendum said:

It was evil for Satan to tempt Eve.  And it was even a transgression for her to make the choice.  But we show gratitude for the results of the fall as a necessary step in the plan.

Do you believe God considered it good or evil when Eve fell to Satan’s temptation?

Thanks,
Jim

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1 hour ago, FunkyTown said:

This is a great question!

Did Eve know the difference between Good and Evil when she committed to the act?

Another interesting question would be.......

if Multiverse Theory is basically correct and fits with multiple Ezekiel 37 style resurrections.......

in which duplicates of all of us are made.......

could there have been several examples of applied Multiverse Theory....... non-linear time....

in which Adam and Eve DID NOT fall.......  and instead took of the Tree of Life.... rather than of the 

Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil????

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2 hours ago, theplains said:

Do you believe God considered it good or evil when Eve fell to Satan’s temptation?

Thanks,
Jim

Just As evil as a 2 year old picking up a bottle of beer and drinking it.

Remember that they were AS CHILDREN not knowing good or evil. Just as a 2 year old can’t fathom why drinking this bottle of liquid is evil, so couldn’t Adam and Eve fathom why partaking of the fruit was evil.

Take a logical walk with me.

1) The purpose of this life is to grow and to become like God. Even as he is and to have all that he has. (D+C 132:20, 88:117, 3 Nephi 11:33)

2) In order to do so, we must know what good and evil is and learn to both freely choose and desire good rather than evil.

3) All good things come from God and nothing that is evil comes from him so God could not have created a world with evil currently present in it.

4) Knowledge is good and come from God so he places the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden.

5) Adam and Eve were nothing more than children. They hardly understood anything. Just as a parent tells a small child is told  “no” to drawing on the wall with a marker, they too were told “no” to eating the fruit.

6) They partook of the fruit and we’re just as guilty of it as a 3 year old child is guilty of drawing on the wall. It is NOT a sin as it is not I herontly evil to draw on a wall or to eats f riot, but a transgression of law because they were told not to.

7) This far into the story, no evil has been done beyond that of a tempter convincing an innocent child to disobey a parent.

😎 (<— this is suppose to be a 8, but the emoji tool over ;) )The fruit was partaken of and now Adam and Eve were as the Gods, knowing good and evil. No evil was done (beyond that of a being that was already evil), no contradictions made, just the genius plan of a supreme being that knows all.

 

 

 

Read this:

https://www.lds.org/new-era/1973/09/q-and-a-questions-and-answers/why-did-the-lord-command-adam-and-eve-to-multiply-in-the-garden-of-eden-when-they-could-not-have-children-before-the-fall?lang=eng

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10 minutes ago, Fether said:

What? Did I miss something in this discussion???

No...... a Theoretical Physicist in another forum introduced me to that idea several years ago.......

I gave it a lot of thought and began to wonder if it could perhaps fit with Ezekiel chapter 37 and the White Throne Judgment of Revelation????

I have decided to begin a topic on this basic idea:

 

 

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to add a link to another discussion
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On 7/2/2018 at 2:29 AM, VelvetShadow said:

I am new to this so I could be WAY off and please correct me!

I always thought that Lucifer was 'set up' by Heavenly Father, he knew how Lucifer would act, he also knew it was necessary for Eve and Adam to eat the fruit of the tree so they could 'be fruitful and multiply' but he wanted them to have their own free agency in the decision,  so I always thought of it as Heavenly Father outsmarting Lucifer and using him as a patsy so to speak, to get what needed to be done, done.

Please correct me where I am wrong here so I can learn.

Thank you

You may want to be extremely cautious here,  as such an opinion or belief is bordering or is actually apostasy. 

One never,  ever wants to risk their eternal salvation on such opinions,  beliefs,  or  teachings. 

Heavenly Father gave us all our free agency. 

On 7/2/2018 at 2:29 AM, VelvetShadow said:

I am new to this so I could be WAY off and please correct me!

I always thought that Lucifer was 'set up' by Heavenly Father, he knew how Lucifer would act, he also knew it was necessary for Eve and Adam to eat the fruit of the tree so they could 'be fruitful and multiply' but he wanted them to have their own free agency in the decision,  so I always thought of it as Heavenly Father outsmarting Lucifer and using him as a patsy so to speak, to get what needed to be done, done.

Please correct me where I am wrong here so I can learn.

Thank you

 

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5 hours ago, theplains said:

Based on your explanation of what “good for food” is, I don’t think Eve was tempted with food to satisfy
her hunger as she already had plenty of other trees to eat from. I would say that besides getting her to
disbelieve what God had said, Satan also tempted Eve by insinuating it was unfair of God to withhold
something from her.

The 1997 GP says, "All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become
like him—a god
.).  I think Satan dangled this temptation (becoming as deity) in front of her instead of the
way ‘god’ (non-deity) is used of him in 2 Corinthians 4:4.

This is the second time pleasure is mentioned before the Fall.  First, God made trees that were pleasant
to the sight of man and then the second where Eve experienced pleasure before partaking.  There is
scriptural support for Adam and Eve feeling pleasure (joy) before they had experience misery.

Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat from that tree?

Why weren’t Eve’s eyes opened the moment she ate and before Adam ate?

Thanks,
Jim

Based on your explanation of what “good for food” is, I don’t think Eve was tempted with food to satisfy her hunger as she already had plenty of other trees to eat from.

I simply pointed out what the scriptures provide regarding Eve's thoughts. We are informed in scripture that she saw the fruit as good for food, "the woman saw that the tree was good for food." The number of other trees she could have eaten becomes irrelevant as we are clearly told she saw it as "good for food."  If I see one plate I haven't tasted among 24 plates of other entrées, I am more likely to taste/eat the one I haven't if my eyes see it as good for food. The 24 other plates that are also food are irrelevant. What is relevant is my desire for the one plate, I haven't tasted, that I see as good for food.

Satan also tempted Eve by insinuating it was unfair of God to withhold something from her.  I think Satan dangled this temptation (becoming as deity) in front of her instead of the
way ‘god’ (non-deity) is used of him in 2 Corinthians 4:4.

As long as we understand that these are both personal interpretations, regarding Eve's temptation, then we are good. The notion that all things "good" come from God is true.  There is nothing in scripture that specifies Eve felt it was unfair for God to withhold anything from her and Adam. The scriptures only specify that she saw it "good for food" and something that would make her "wise" (or that her eyes would be opened).  We know her eyes were opened.

Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat from that tree?

As to scripture and modern revelation from prophets I can think of only two reasons:

1) Spiritual Death

2) Physical Death

However, the command not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the only command from scripture that provides this caveat, "nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

No other command given by God has the caveat of "thou mayest choose for thyself." Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife. Thou shalt not kill/murder.

Why weren’t Eve’s eyes opened the moment she ate and before Adam ate?

Modern revelation does explain that Eve's eyes were open before giving the fruit to Adam. Scripture specifies that Eve gave unto Adam and their eyes were opened. This doesn't negate nor confirm that Eve's eyes were not opened before giving the fruit to Adam.

In Genesis and Book of Moses we don't have a lot of information to say one way or another. Modern revelation through modern prophets have provided more insight.  The scriptures appear to simplify a story line. Eve's eyes were opened. She gave to Adam, his eyes were opened. The scriptures simplify the whole scenario into one verse. Eve partook. She gave to Adam. He partook. Their eyes were opened, they new they were naked.

With modern revelation through modern prophets the scripture verses are simplifying the story line. Eve's eyes were opened before giving the fruit to Adam.

There is scriptural support for Adam and Eve feeling pleasure (joy) before they had experience misery.

Pleasure is not always synonymous with "joy."  Also, do remember, your belief of scriptural support in scripture for Adam and Eve experiencing/feeling pleasure is coming from a person whose eyes are opened, not from the eyes of someone in a state of innocence.

What scriptures are you referring to?

 

 

Edited by Anddenex
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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:05 PM, theplains said:

Your comparison of a child molester is not appropriate unless the child made a consent to be molested.  God left Adam
and Eve alone with Satan because Satan could not harm them if they remained obedient to Him.  As the New Testament
teaches, God is even able to provide a way out in our own temptations ... if we choose to follow Him.

Jim

It is exactly the point - a child cannot consent to be molested - why would you even think or say such a thing?  Little children do not know or understand what molested is and are incapable of knowing right from wrong.  Scriptures are clear that Eve was beguiled.   Any argument that Adam and Eve knew better and chose wrong, simply is not true - they had no means of differentiating between G-d and Satan - it was impossible for them to know one was good and one was not.  Do you believe G-d did not have a clue what would happen?  Was G-d also beguiled?

The standard traditional Christian way of interpreting the garden Epoch demands that only G-d knew right from wrong - the problem was not so much the tree and it fruit but that G-d did not command them not to listen to Satan - even though he knew full well the evil intent of Satan - and he was the only one that did know and choose to do nothing.  I really do not understand why anyone would make excuses for and worship such a foolish G-d.  The warning of the tree was obviously inferior, incomplete and insufficient .  The notion that Adam and Eve hated (rebelled against) G-d and took the first opportunity to disobey him is preposterous - it simply is not true.  Adam and Eve had no intention to disobey G-d and on a level playing field; armed with truth and knowledge they would not have fallen for Satan's deception. 

It is obvious to me that the epoch is symbolic and mostly misunderstood.  Or else G-d made a foolish mistake and Satan took advantage of it.

 

The Traveler

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