Contemplating divorce


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I've been married for two years with my lovely wife.

Due to unfortunate events in her childhood primarily with her father leaving and my wife's mother not standing up for herself nor her kids, my wife learned to stand up for herself at a very young age so she's not afraid of expressing her opinion nor frustration. Years into our marriage, we always had power struggles but recently it has gotten really bad. It seems that she is not to take any correction from me when I say to stop doing something that I dislike or I feel is against the gospel and her response is very defensive and sarcastic and in my opionion hurtful. Usually there after I respond with "why are you treating me this way?" Which then leads to an argument. She is totally against being so call subservient to the husband and she feels like because I strongly feel that her suggestion or idea is not the best for our family - as I believe I'm the one to protect and provide for my family- that I'm not listening to her and that then that leads her to say that I'm treating her like garbage which we fight about as well because I disagree . This is really bad and I don't know what to do I've spoke with my Bishop once and I mentioned that we had resolved things but now I'm at square one again having this happen every so often and I'm tired of it. I'm so confused, if marriage is the Father's plan and it's supposed to make one happy, why am I so unhappy in my marriage? We also have a 2 year old son together and it would hurt me so much to divorce and not have him be raised in a home with mom and dad.

Edited by A Little Lost
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Guest MormonGator

All I can say is that divorce is a permanent solution to what might be a temporary problem. Unless there is abuse, adultery, or addiction you want to do everything possible to make the marriage work, strictly because you have a child and you are right-the child needs a stable home more than anything. Get a counselor my friend, but please please please don't drop the "D" word. You will regret it. 

Prayers your way, big time. I know it's hard. It's hard on men sometimes because we feel guilty expressing our emotions and telling a woman that yes, their words can hurt us. I'm so sorry brother.   

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In my opinion you are trying to be a father, not a husband. Sit down by yourself in a quiet spot and write down all the reasons you wanted to spend the rest of your life with this woman, and all the things that you admired and respected about her. Take a few days to compile the list - pray and ponder.

Wait a few more days after, then sit down again and write down what traits (reasons) have changed.

Be brutely honest in this next part ~ ~ ~ Were any of the changes brought upon by you trying to exert your will and dominion over her?

It would also be to both of your mutual benefit to read and study: Marriage and Family Relations   https://www.lds.org/manual/marriage-and-family-relations-instructors-manual?lang=eng

I prefer the Instructors manual - both I highly recommend BOTH of you read BOTH of them, and treat each other  E Q U A L L Y !

 

Edited by Iggy
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6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

C comes before D.  You have a two year old - you owe it to the child to at least try counseling first. 

My wife and I did counseling. We weren’t anywhere close to even considering divorce, she was just having some major anxieties soon after our marriage. The times we went were so awesome :) we learned SO MUCH

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4 hours ago, A Little Lost said:

I've been married for two years with my lovely wife.

Due to unfortunate events in her childhood primarily with her father leaving and my wife's mother not standing up for herself nor her kids, my wife learned to stand up for herself at a very young age so she's not afraid of expressing her opinion nor frustration. Years into our marriage, we always had power struggles but recently it has gotten really bad. It seems that she is not to take any correction from me when I say to stop doing something that I dislike or I feel is against the gospel and her response is very defensive and sarcastic and in my opinion hurtful. Usually there after I respond with "why are you treating me this way?" Which then leads to an argument. She is totally against being so call subservient to the husband and she feels like because I strongly feel that her suggestion or idea is not the best for our family - as I believe I'm the one to protect and provide for my family- that I'm not listening to her and that then that leads her to say that I'm treating her like garbage which we fight about as well because I disagree . This is really bad and I don't know what to do I've spoke with my Bishop once and I mentioned that we had resolved things but now I'm at square one again having this happen every so often and I'm tired of it. I'm so confused, if marriage is the Father's plan and it's supposed to make one happy, why am I so unhappy in my marriage? We also have a 2 year old son together and it would hurt me so much to divorce and not have him be raised in a home with mom and dad.

Hey Brother! Glad you came to us. Let  me see...

Well you do have a problem on your hands. Her prior abuse? is not your fault (don't ever feel like it is) However it is your problem now too. If you did your homework before hand I am not sure but this should have been know before you got married. Now that you married and committed to the point of having offspring together you owe it to yourself and baby to get counseling. Individual and couples. Might be expensive but worth it and don't be afraid to change counselors until you find one that suites you and is fair and impartial for the couples portion. If you are both willing to get help then awesome! If one of you isn't well... some major prayer and fasting needs to be done. 

If you exhaust your options then by all means do what you have to be happy (meaning divorce, nothing crazy) but imagine looking back on this situation (if this is the only negative) there may be some regrets but I understand hating life everyday is not healthy at all and can lead to even graver sin. Keep your covenants and ask God to help you solve this. He will show you what to do. 

Most divorce occurs purely out of selfishness. From one or BOTH parties

Hope things get better sooner than later

 

 

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10 hours ago, A Little Lost said:

I've been married for two years with my lovely wife.

I'm a Marriage and Family student....which means I know just enough to get myself in trouble, LOL!  But it also means that I have studied a bit about marriage, and while I am not qualified to give you counseling, I can tell you that I believe your marriage can be saved.  You will need some help, but I was just talking to a friend the other day, who IS a Marriage and Family Therapist and she has seen marriages like yours be saved.  I have seen marriages on the rocks like yours be saved.  Don't give up!  

One marriage and family therapist, Sue Johnson PhD, in her book, Hold Me Tight, talked about how her parents killed their marriage (her explanation) and yet some 30 years  after their divorce, on his deathbed he still spoke of his love for his ex-wife.  (I'm paraphrasing, but that is the jist of it.)   She then explains what she has learned really helps couples after schooling and actual experience as a marriage therapist.  She has seen struggling marriages be turned around.  Another really talented Marriage and Family Therapist is John Gottman PhD.  His book Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work is phenomenal.  

I recommend Marriage Counseling with a therapist that does Emotion Focused Therapy - EFT (just ask them).  I know therapy can be expensive, but if it saves your marriage it will be the best investment you ever make.   

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Guest LiterateParakeet
6 hours ago, A Little Lost said:

Thanks for all of your comments everyone.   I really needed some of your comments. I will seek counseling and also read with my wife. What should I expect in a counseling session?

Awesome!  
Go to https://www.psychologytoday.com/us 
put in your zip code to find therapist in your area
From the list on the left, scroll down to "types of therapy"
click more...and choose Emotionally Focused

Then choose a therapist who does Emotionally Focused therapy and accepts your insurance...you might even be able to find one who is Christian/LDS depending on where you live.  

What to expect?  Great tools to help you understand yourselves and each other, and rekindle the love and joy in your marriage.   :)  

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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10 hours ago, A Little Lost said:

Thanks for all of your comments everyone.   I really needed some of your comments. I will seek counseling and also read with my wife. What should I expect in a counseling session?

Depending on where you live, LDS services is an option too. Talk to you bishop about it after you talk to your wife.

You will learn what each other is thinking, why they think that way, how to deal with disagreements, how to recognize when you are about to lash out, how to avoid arguments. 

But the coolest things we learned were about why we thought the way we did and how damaging it was to ourselves and our relationship. The best part of counseling was NOT “what can I do to fix her” or “what does she need to fix”. It was all “What must I do to fix myself”. That is where the magic is. And when you are both there together trying to fix yourselves, it is super motivating to do better yourself when you see your spouse doing the exercises discussed in the counseling session.

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19 minutes ago, Lee said:

Maybe you just need to treat your wife better 🤔

Now obviously we don’t have the whole story so maybe this is the correct action. But women are not always the victims. I dated a girl once that was very inconsiderate of my feelings and our relationship was a rough one when I expressed anybsort of frustration

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On 7/1/2018 at 7:40 PM, A Little Lost said:

I've been married for two years with my lovely wife.

Due to unfortunate events in her childhood primarily with her father leaving and my wife's mother not standing up for herself nor her kids, my wife learned to stand up for herself at a very young age so she's not afraid of expressing her opinion nor frustration. Years into our marriage, we always had power struggles but recently it has gotten really bad. It seems that she is not to take any correction from me when I say to stop doing something that I dislike or I feel is against the gospel and her response is very defensive and sarcastic and in my opionion hurtful. Usually there after I respond with "why are you treating me this way?" Which then leads to an argument. She is totally against being so call subservient to the husband and she feels like because I strongly feel that her suggestion or idea is not the best for our family - as I believe I'm the one to protect and provide for my family- that I'm not listening to her and that then that leads her to say that I'm treating her like garbage which we fight about as well because I disagree . This is really bad and I don't know what to do I've spoke with my Bishop once and I mentioned that we had resolved things but now I'm at square one again having this happen every so often and I'm tired of it. I'm so confused, if marriage is the Father's plan and it's supposed to make one happy, why am I so unhappy in my marriage? We also have a 2 year old son together and it would hurt me so much to divorce and not have him be raised in a home with mom and dad.

Sorry to come down hard on you, but your post makes me think she has a point.

She is not yours to boss around.  The two of you are to counsel TOGETHER and come to agreement, not exercise power over her and run roughshod over her feelings and views.  Usually when a poster comes here their story makes themselves look like the victim but what I see in your post is a man who thinks he has the right to command his wife and expects her to meekly obey his will without question.  You are NOT listening to her, you are too busy expecting her to listen to you and obey you like a trained dog.  You ARE treating her like garbage and not respecting her feelings or her mind.  You are unhappy in your marriage because you are not doing it right.

A strong woman who stands up for herself is a great blessing to have as a wife when the husband acts like Christ rather than like a dictator.   I couldn't stand having a whimpering subservient wife.  I want the love of a woman is strong enough to only give her love to a man who is worthy of it, then her love has value to me.  A woman like that can be her husband's  best and wisest counselor.   If you want her to follow you, you have to EARN her trust and confidence by treating her right and living right.

Please take this to heart:

D&C 121: 37,41-42  ...when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.  ... No power or influence CAN or OUGHT TO be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile

Stop pulling the 'I'm the husband and it's my job so I decide you are wrong and we'll do it my way' crap.  Instead you need to talk more, listen more, pray more (and pray together too) and you keep at it till you find a point where you can be united.  That is how the First Presidency and the Quorum the Twelve work.  President Nelson doesn't come along and say 'Hey, I'm the prophet now so this is how it's going to be.'

If you want to save your marriage, you start by going to your wife and telling her she was right, you have been a jerk and you are sorry and want to do better.  Then you start leading the family TOGETHER and giving her the respect she deserves.  Sounds to me like she is a lot sharper than you give her credit for.

 

Edited by Latter-Day Marriage
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Guest MormonGator
57 minutes ago, Fether said:

 But women are not always the victims. 

Yup. I think some men (key word, some) of a certain age have that mindset where men are always the wrong ones and women are always the victims. 

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5 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Sorry to come down hard on you, but your post makes me think she has a point.

She is not yours to boss around.  The two of you are to counsel TOGETHER and come to agreement, not exercise power over her and run roughshod over her feelings and views.  Usually when a poster comes here their story makes themselves look like the victim but what I see in your post is a man who thinks he has the right to command his wife and expects her to meekly obey his will without question.  You are NOT listening to her, you are too busy expecting her to listen to you and obey you like a trained dog.  You ARE treating her like garbage and not respecting her feelings or her mind.  You are unhappy in your marriage because you are not doing it right.

A strong woman who stands up for herself is a great blessing to have as a wife when the husband acts like Christ rather than like a dictator.   I couldn't stand having a whimpering subservient wife.  I want the love of a woman is strong enough to only give her love to a man who is worthy of it, then her love has value to me.  A woman like that can be her husband's  best and wisest counselor.   If you want her to follow you, you have to EARN her trust and confidence by treating her right and living right.

Please take this to heart:

D&C 121: 37,41-42  ...when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.  ... No power or influence CAN or OUGHT TO be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile

Stop pulling the 'I'm the husband and it's my job so I decide you are wrong and we'll do it my way' crap.  Instead you need to talk more, listen more, pray more (and pray together too) and you keep at it till you find a point where you can be united.  That is how the First Presidency and the Quorum the Twelve work.  President Nelson doesn't come along and say 'Hey, I'm the prophet now so this is how it's going to be.'

If you want to save your marriage, you start by going to your wife and telling her she was right, you have been a jerk and you are sorry and want to do better.  Then you start leading the family TOGETHER and giving her the respect she deserves.  Sounds to me like she is a lot sharper than you give her credit for.

 

That is quite a mouthful of counsel from only a paragraph of background

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5 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

If you want to save your marriage, you start by going to your wife and telling her she was right, you have been a jerk and you are sorry and want to do better.  Then you start leading the family TOGETHER and giving her the respect she deserves.  Sounds to me like she is a lot sharper than you give her credit for.

 

Eek---don't think this post was all that appropriate considering the amount of information given. Could he be everything you have just said? Yep. Could he be a frustrated husband that came to a forum to vent his frustrations, which included emphasizing the things he was upset about? Thus glossing over other details that would fill in the picture a little more clearly? Also yep. 

Looks like this OP just needed some extra words of wisdom to not go straight down the divorce path just yet. Not a scolding lecture from someone who knows .01% of this individual's life and marriage. Sometimes we're all a little too quick to judge a post and make assumptions that aren't really warranted. I think your post has some great insight, but given with the assumption that you know exactly who this man is in his own marriage. Which is far from the case. 

Edited by BeccaKirstyn
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Married for two years and have a two year old son, wow, no moss growing on that stone.    Divorce is easy, marriage is hard.   When something is easily gained it is of no importance most of the time.   Those things we do in life that are hard are most often the most rewarding.   Dump the mindset that “I am the one to protect and provide for my family”.   It’s a team effort, regardless of whom is the primary breadwinner is.   

Married for two years, heck, you guys don’t even know each other yet, especially if you started life together pregnant.   I’m a firm believer people should not have kids until they’ve been together long enough to know each other’s less agreeable side, which we all have.

i wish you well, a good marriage is a wonderful thing, but it’s work, all the time.

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11 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

A strong woman who stands up for herself is a great blessing to have as a wife when the husband acts like Christ rather than like a dictator.   I couldn't stand having a whimpering subservient wife.  I want the love of a woman is strong enough to only give her love to a man who is worthy of it, then her love has value to me.  A woman like that can be her husband's  best and wisest counselor.   If you want her to follow you, you have to EARN her trust and confidence by treating her right and living right.

 

100 percent agree a strong woman is a blessing to any marriage. I have lost count of the number of times my wife has had to pick me up and tell me what the best thing for us to do is. Sure I could call my wife stubborn or defensive but I appreciate her strong-mindedness and her ability to stand up for herself. As a plus she stands up for me a lot too :) 

 

If I ever tried to pull this on my wife:

 

On 7/2/2018 at 12:40 AM, A Little Lost said:

when I say to stop doing something that I dislike or I feel is against the gospel and her response is very defensive and sarcastic and in my opionion hurtful.

I would be living on the couch. Your wife is not a child for you to correct or boss around, give her your opinion and talk it through. 

 

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12 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Sorry to come down hard on you, but your post makes me think she has a point.

She is not yours to boss around.  The two of you are to counsel TOGETHER and come to agreement, not exercise power over her and run roughshod over her feelings and views.  Usually when a poster comes here their story makes themselves look like the victim but what I see in your post is a man who thinks he has the right to command his wife and expects her to meekly obey his will without question.  You are NOT listening to her, you are too busy expecting her to listen to you and obey you like a trained dog.  You ARE treating her like garbage and not respecting her feelings or her mind.  You are unhappy in your marriage because you are not doing it right.

A strong woman who stands up for herself is a great blessing to have as a wife when the husband acts like Christ rather than like a dictator.   I couldn't stand having a whimpering subservient wife.  I want the love of a woman is strong enough to only give her love to a man who is worthy of it, then her love has value to me.  A woman like that can be her husband's  best and wisest counselor.   If you want her to follow you, you have to EARN her trust and confidence by treating her right and living right.

Please take this to heart:

D&C 121: 37,41-42  ...when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.  ... No power or influence CAN or OUGHT TO be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile

Stop pulling the 'I'm the husband and it's my job so I decide you are wrong and we'll do it my way' crap.  Instead you need to talk more, listen more, pray more (and pray together too) and you keep at it till you find a point where you can be united.  That is how the First Presidency and the Quorum the Twelve work.  President Nelson doesn't come along and say 'Hey, I'm the prophet now so this is how it's going to be.'

If you want to save your marriage, you start by going to your wife and telling her she was right, you have been a jerk and you are sorry and want to do better.  Then you start leading the family TOGETHER and giving her the respect she deserves.  Sounds to me like she is a lot sharper than you give her credit for.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lee said:

Your wife is not a child for you to correct or boss around, give her your opinion and talk it through. 

 I’m not sure where everyone is getting the idea that he is in the wrong. I agree that he may be, but judging by his post it is clear that the wife seems to be struggling with some pride. Of course there may be a lot he is leaving out, but there is no way we can discern that in our current positions.

I have had to extend correction to my wife on quite a few occasions during our year of marriage ,and she has to me too. Some Issues in Marriage are not always suppose to be solved by “let’s sit down and talk about this”.

A few months ago, I was on our couch on a day off of work and school. I was playing video games and I had for quite a while that day. She came in and said “I need you to stop playing video games and be present. Spend time with me!” She was right. I promptly shut off my game and we spend the rest of the day together.

Last week a family member shared with us in confidence some very personal struggles they were facing and sought our advice. Not even 30 minutes later she was sharing the information with another family member. When we were alone, I corrected her and told her that people trust her and she should not breach that trust. There were some tears but she agreed with me.

My wife and I are not going to “just talk” about whether we need to do FHE, read scriptures together or personally, attend the temple regularily, or any other gospel commandment, we expect it out of each other. And thankfully we have the same standard of truth, the gospel, in which we turn to for confirmation. I’m not going to debate my wife on anything she says or demands that is backed by the gospel, nor will she debate me. That is how marriage is. Some things can be discussed and compromised on, others you cannot find a compromise and one spouse just needs to repent. And I have known many faithful people, make and female, that even when faced with a direct quote from a prophet of God concerning the living of a certain law, will still say “hogwash!”. Not because of disbelief, but because of pride and not wanting to be wrong.

PS despite only being married a year, My wife and I have a 2 month old and he is the greatest thing in our lives. I back Spencer W Kimball in our decision when he says “Supreme happiness in marriage is governed considerably by a primary factor—that of the bearing and rearing of children.” Spencer W Kimball

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7 hours ago, Fether said:

That is quite a mouthful of counsel from only a paragraph of background

It was a paragraph where he revealed a lot about himself.  He said: "we always had power struggles...It seems that she is not to take any correction from me when I say to stop doing something that I dislike..She is totally against being so call subservient to the husband.. she feels like because I strongly feel that her suggestion or idea is not the best for our family - as I believe I'm the one to protect and provide for my family- that I'm not listening to her ... [she feels] that I'm treating her like garbage"

All that clearly reveals that he is trying to exercise power over her, control her, tell her what to do, and he feels it is his place to do so and it is her place to be subserviant to his decisions that he makes without getting her agreement first.  That is exercising unrighteous dominion.  She is pushing back and he is not happy about it.

He doesn't get to decide how she feels or even how she should feel.  He needs to back off his power trip and learn to counsel together with her as a couple should.

 

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15 minutes ago, Fether said:

 I’m not sure where everyone is getting the idea that he is in the wrong.

Look at what he says.

"we always had power struggles" - how does that happen if he is not trying to exercise power over her?  he isn't saying that she is ordering him around, she is just pushing back against his attempts to exercise power over her which he describes further on.

"It seems that she is not to take any correction from me when I say to stop doing something that I dislike" - he seems to think it is his right to order her around to act according to his desires rather than persuade her respectfully and understand that she has likes too.

"She is totally against being so call subservient to the husband" - and she should be against being subservient to him, so why does that bother him unless he thinks she should be subservient?

"she feels like because I strongly feel that her suggestion or idea is not the best for our family - as I believe I'm the one to protect and provide for my family- that I'm not listening to her" - If he feels her idea is wrong, they should counsel together more and come to understand each other's view and find a solution they can both feel good about.  It is clear that he is making a decision before they get to that point.  If she feels he is not listening to her, the he is not listening to her.  It is his job to make sure she feels like she is listens too.  This is something that would never be said by a couple that counsels together.

"that I'm treating her like garbage"  - He doesn't get to decide how she feels, he needs to take her feelings seriously and address the cause, not brush them off as invalid because he is doing

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6 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Look at what he says.

"we always had power struggles" - how does that happen if he is not trying to exercise power over her?  he isn't saying that she is ordering him around, she is just pushing back against his attempts to exercise power over her which he describes further on.

"It seems that she is not to take any correction from me when I say to stop doing something that I dislike" - he seems to think it is his right to order her around to act according to his desires rather than persuade her respectfully and understand that she has likes too.

"She is totally against being so call subservient to the husband" - and she should be against being subservient to him, so why does that bother him unless he thinks she should be subservient?

"she feels like because I strongly feel that her suggestion or idea is not the best for our fam

ily - as I believe I'm the one to protect and provide for my family- that I'm not listening to her" - If he feels her idea is wrong, they should counsel together more and come to understand each other's view and find a solution they can both feel good about.  It is clear that he is making a decision before they get to that point.  If she feels he is not listening to her, the he is not listening to her.  It is his job to make sure she feels like she is listens too.  This is something that would never be said by a couple that counsels together.

"that I'm treating her like garbage"  - He doesn't get to decide how she feels, he needs to take her feelings seriously and address the cause, not brush them off as invalid because he is doing

I think we agree on most everything, except for the assumptions of what actions are behind his words. In my mind, those situations in which he was telling her things were situations like “We need to have family scripture study” and she says “no, I’m too tired” and he says “I’m sorry but we need to” and BOOM power struggle ensues. I get this from the phrase “She is totally against being so call subservient to the husband and she feels like because I strongly feel that her suggestion or idea is not the best for our family”

Also, power struggles happen all time when two people who don’t know how to deal with conflicts try to make decisions. When one begins, it is difficult to know “who started it”, but both are in the wrong. He would t be here if his wife would take the high road and try to deescalate the situation. Obviously neither are.

And as far as he telling her to stop doing something he dislikes, I had a girlfriend once that would say rude things to me and I would say “Please stop” and she would precede to make fun of me. So it isn’t too far fetched for me to believe that she is just being rude.

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

 And as far as he telling her to stop doing something he dislikes, I had a girlfriend once that would say rude things to me and I would say “Please stop” and she would precede to make fun of me. So it isn’t too far fetched for me to believe that she is just being rude.

Why should she stop doing something just because he dislikes it, maybe he needs to get over himself. 

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