I felt led to research the L.D.S. again after attending a couple of services during the 1990's

[DennisTate]

Frankly...... it was a statement by Mr. Mark Taylor that inspired me to 

find out where and when your services were.  He stated that information was coming out that 

would soon prove that the 2012 election had been stolen from Mr. Mitt Romney due to illegals voting, 

due to people voting more than once.... and votes going to already deceased Americans.  

If..... in the sight of G-d..... Mr. Mitt Romney was actually elected President in 2012..... then

Latter Day Saints can pray for restitution...... and restoration of those stolen years.... 

with a special authority.  

[DennisTate]

I am thinking about doing my best to make it out to services again this Sunday.  

I will keep you updated.  

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

I will keep you updated.  

Please do!

[DennisTate]

On 7/12/2018 at 8:15 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Please do!

I do feel that very possibly I may be re-baptized as an L.D. S. but.......

I do have one major concern that I clearly express here:

 

 

L.D.S. Baptism for the dead.... and Rabbi Nachman of Breslov.

Quote

Good point........ baptism is not necessary for salvation BUT........
the thief on the cross was no longer able to get baptized.....
(or should we say do a Mikvah)....... so of course Messiah Yeshua - Jesus did not need
him to do that in order for him to enter paradise BUT........
for those of us who have nothing stopping us from being baptized or even re-baptized.....we really should
go ahead and do it........
because it is a small price to pay for the blessings that follow the laying on of hands of
a spiritual leader with genuine authority from G-d.

If.... I am given some sort of assurance from a fairly well connected Latter Day Saint that my being
baptized L.D.S. will not probably result in my being disfellowshipped from the church......
within a year or two due to all that I write.... then I may well take the plunge in the not too distant future.

 

Quote

I am concerned that my serious leanings toward Eventual Universal Salvation... might be grounds for my eventually being dis-fellowshipped..... if I did officially become a Mormon?????

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by DennisTate
add link to topic....

[MaryJehanne]

On July 14, 2018 at 9:11 AM, DennisTate said:

I do feel that very possibly I may be re-baptized as an L.D. S. but.......

I do have one major concern that I clearly express here:

 

 

L.D.S. Baptism for the dead.... and Rabbi Nachman of Breslov.

 

 

Hi, DennisTate! I saw no one replied to this (in this thread at least), so I thought I'd throw a thought in.

What you're talking about isn't necessarily universal salvation, just that some people don't get baptized with water while on Earth. Coming from a Catholic perspective, if you know you need to get a Christian baptism and you are able, then you need to do it. But, there are other considerations for people who aren't baptized with water. From a post I wrote on the forum: "[...] although the only way for us to remove Original sin is by the sacrament of Baptism, it is not God's only way. "However, we do know that the Church has always accepted that the righteous before Christ (who died in original sin) were able to attain heaven after the Resurrection, so this teaching clearly accepted that God makes exceptions to this rule. While man is bound by sacraments, God is not.  Although all who die in original sin descend to hell, it is also entirely possible that God can remove original sin from the souls of those he chooses right before their death." (Catholic Answers) Secondly, there are more types of Baptism than Baptism by water; there is also the Baptism of blood and the Baptism of desire. So, although Original sin must be removed, Baptism by water was not the only way that might have happened [...]." (This is a quick excerpt of what I wrote out, so to see more, in context, the post is here! https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/65124-angels/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-979418)

It's not a matter of baptism assuring salvation or damnation, but baptism (or the removal of original sin) being the standard that "opens the gate" to the ability to achieve salvation. Not everyone will be saved, but there are probably a great deal of souls who did not receive baptism by water who, nonetheless, were cleared of original sin and went to heaven.

I'm not sure if that's quite the type of answer you were looking for, but I hope it was helpful!

God bless!

 

[estradling75]

Please note that LDS theology make a distinction between Salvation and Exaltation.

It can be a bit hard because many members equate Salvation and Exaltation in practice (even if they know the difference)... With such quotes as "Salvation without Exaltation is damnation"

Thus in LDS theology Salvation will come to all but the Son's of Perdition, and is therefore almost universal in nature.  This fulfills the many scriptures about Christ saving all that is in his hands.  Exaltation is much more exclusive, and it is given to those that seek after Christ and to do his will in all things. Thus fulfilling those scriptures.

Thus believing in a near universal Salvation is acceptable, believing in a near universal Exaltation is where you would really run in to push back from various members of the church.  

[Jane_Doe]

On 7/14/2018 at 7:11 AM, DennisTate said:

I do feel that very possibly I may be re-baptized as an L.D. S. but.......

I do have one major concern that I clearly express here:

Point of clarification here at the thief on the cross:

LDS do believe that baptism is required for salvation, but this baptism does not always happen before the person's mortal death.  For the thief on the cross: obviously he was an individual whom at that moment had faith, accepted Christ, and after death entered paradise.  Scripture does not say whether or not he was already baptized.  If he was not, then a vicious baptism is provided, fulfilling that commandment and his desire to formally enter a covenant with Christ and take upon His name.  

Now about universal salvation: 

LDS believe that everyone besides the sons of perdition will live forever, resurrected in a world beyond imagination wonderful, and just knock-your-socks-off-incomprehensiable happy for eternity.  Every knee will bow and acknowledge Jesus is the Christ.  That's happening for everyone.

Now, moving beyond just living forever: to what magnitude does your character reflect Christ?  That is a question that doesn't just have one universal answer.  Some people completely completely embrace Christ and reflect His character completely, bringing an even greater happiness (we LDS call this exaltation).  Other folks do not so fully embrace Christ.

[DennisTate]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:13 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Point of clarification here at the thief on the cross:

LDS do believe that baptism is required for salvation, but this baptism does not always happen before the person's mortal death.  For the thief on the cross: obviously he was an individual whom at that moment had faith, accepted Christ, and after death entered paradise.  Scripture does not say whether or not he was already baptized.  If he was not, then a vicious baptism is provided, fulfilling that commandment and his desire to formally enter a covenant with Christ and take upon His name.  

Now about universal salvation: 

LDS believe that everyone besides the sons of perdition will live forever, resurrected in a world beyond imagination wonderful, and just knock-your-socks-off-incomprehensiable happy for eternity.  Every knee will bow and acknowledge Jesus is the Christ.  That's happening for everyone.

Now, moving beyond just living forever: to what magnitude does your character reflect Christ?  That is a question that doesn't just have one universal answer.  Some people completely completely embrace Christ and reflect His character completely, bringing an even greater happiness (we LDS call this exaltation).  Other folks do not so fully embrace Christ.

These past couple of months have been very interesting......

I was shown how serious a problem my pride...... and my relatively lukewarm attitude really is......

at a whole new level in comparison to before.  

 

I need to make massive improvements in order to be more like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.  

[DennisTate]

On 7/17/2018 at 2:14 PM, estradling75 said:

Please note that LDS theology make a distinction between Salvation and Exaltation.

It can be a bit hard because many members equate Salvation and Exaltation in practice (even if they know the difference)... With such quotes as "Salvation without Exaltation is damnation"

Thus in LDS theology Salvation will come to all but the Son's of Perdition, and is therefore almost universal in nature.  This fulfills the many scriptures about Christ saving all that is in his hands.  Exaltation is much more exclusive, and it is given to those that seek after Christ and to do his will in all things. Thus fulfilling those scriptures.

Thus believing in a near universal Salvation is acceptable, believing in a near universal Exaltation is where you would really run in to push back from various members of the church.  

Thank you for this truly helpful clarification.  

Fascinating!

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, DennisTate said:

I need to make massive improvements in order to be more like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.  

You're not alone in that boat

[DennisTate]

18 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

You're not alone in that boat

On a plus note..... as I was praying and asking to be shown whether or not Messiah Yeshua - Jesus wanted me to

be baptized as a Latter Day Saint...... I seem to have gotten an amazingly clear impression that the number one role that I must play

for the Latter Day Saints is to assist you to get very, very, very close to the nation of Israel.... and to the Jewish people.  

 

The town of Sderot, Israel may be the place where L.D.S. and Israeli cooperation comes to a new high.  

 

How can we stop the rockets from landing on Sderot, Israel?

[DennisTate]

Quote

 

On Friday, July 20, 2018, 4:25:12 p.m. ADT, Temple Mount Faithful Mailing List <[email protected]> wrote:

 

 

תנועת נאמני הר-הבית וארץ ישראל

TEMPLE MOUNT & LAND OF ISRAEL FAITHFUL MOVEMENT
P.O. Box 18325, 8 Aliash Street, Jerusalem, Israel

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              B'esrat HaShem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      With the Help of G-D


                                            A NEWSLETTER TO LOVERS OF ZION IN THE WORLD

“TISHA B’AV” 2018 A SHORT TIME BEFORE THE BUILDING OF THE THIRD HOLY TEMPLE:
** THE TEMPLE MOUNT FAITHFUL MOVEMENT MARCHING TO THE HOLY TEMPLE MOUNT.                                                                                                        ** ANOINTING THE CORNERSTONE FOR THE THIRD HOLY TEMPLE CLOSER THAN ANY OTHER TIME TO DISCOVERING AND          PICKING UP THE ARK OF THE COVENANT.                                                                                
** CALLING THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL TO IMMEDIATELY ANSWER THE CALL OF G-D AND BUILD THE THIRD HOLY TEMPLE WITH NO DELAY.                                                                      
** MOURNING AND DEMONSTRATING FOR THE IMMEDIATE CESSATION OF MUSLIM DESTRUCTION AND ELIMINATION OF THE REMAINS OF THE HOLY TEMPLES ON THE HOLY TEMPLE MOUNT.

The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement will conduct a special end-time march to the Holy Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the eternal capital of the G-D and people of Israel.  The march will take place on “Tisha B’Av”, Sunday, the 9th of Av, 5778, July 22, 2018, at 11:30 am on the day we mourn the destruction of the two Holy Temples on the Holy Temple Mount.  We shall meet at 11:30 am at “Goren Plaza” which is next to the western gate of the Holy Temple Mount.  Everyone who will be in Israel on Tisha B’Av is invited to participate in this special march that will take place during a most unique time in the history of Israel and of the world at large.

It has been almost 2,000 years since the destruction of the Second Holy Temple and over 2,500 years since the destruction of the First Holy Temple, both located on the Holy Temple Mount in Jerusalem.  The Holy Temples were destroyed by the enemies of Israel on the same day of the year, the 9th day of the Hebrew month of Av, called “Tisha B’Av” according to the Hebrew calendar.  The First Holy

 

Quote

Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians on “Tisha B’Av” in 586 BCE and the Second Holy Temple was destroyed by the Romans on “Tisha B’Av” in the year 70 CE.  Since the destruction of the First Holy Temple in the 6th century BCE, the day of “Tisha B’Av” has always been a day of very deep mourning and total fasting, year after year, in the Land of Israel and in the lands of our exile until this very day.  Even now, after the great redemption of Israel where millions of Jews have returned to dwell in the Land of Israel, “Tisha B’Av” is still a day of deep mourning and fasting.  Indeed, the destruction of both Holy Temples by the enemies of biblical Israel, were the greatest disasters experienced by the Jewish people.

On this upcoming historic “Tisha B’Av” march, the Faithful Movement will call the people and the government of Israel to answer the call of the G-D of Israel to His people to build the Third Holy Temple with no delay and to answer G-D’s prophetic Word to Israel at this great time of redemption!  The prophet Zechariah prophesied that G-D will turn the “Tisha B’Av” day of deep mourning into a holiday of joy, happiness and festivity.  Indeed, this will happen when the Third Holy Temple is built (Zechariah 8:3,9,18-23).  However, as “Tisha B’Av 2018” approaches, the Faithful Movement will join with all the people of Israel and mourn the destruction of both Holy Temples and mourn the recent destruction of additional holy archaeological remains of the First and Second Temples that had survived on the Holy Temple Mount since the destruction of the Holy Temples and since the Muslims occupied Jerusalem and the Holy Temple Mount in the year 638 CE.  Until this first Muslim occupation, many remains from both Holy Temples had survived on the Holy Temple Mount.  When the Muslims occupied Jerusalem, they destroyed the real western wall, the altar and many other most holy remains by casting them outside of the Holy Temple Mount. Again today, Muslims are causing rampant destruction of other holy remains.  Unfortunately, the government of Israel lacks the courage to stop this terrible and abominable destruction on the Holy Temple Mount.  We care about the silence of the entire world that does not stop this barbaric destruction of the most important and holy archaeological remains, important not only for Israel but also for the entire world.  We shall demonstrate on “Tisha B’Av” calling the Israeli government and the entire world to immediately stop this ongoing destruction of such valuable and holy remains.
  
On our “Tisha B’Av 2018” march to the Holy Temple Mount, the Faithful Movement will anoint the cornerstone for the Third Holy Temple, as our forefathers anointed the previous cornerstones for the First and Second Holy Temples.  We are closer to the rebuilding of the Holy Temple than at any other time in the past.

I admit that my reply to the Temple Mount Faithful Movement may be somewhat presumptuous..... . but I felt that their praying about this would certainly be worthwhile.

My reply to their e-mail:

 

Quote

 

Shalom from Nova Scotia, Canada.  

 

Several months ago I was listening to an interview in which Mr. Mark Taylor was saying that 

evidence would come out that indicated that the 2012 USA election had been stolen from Mr. Mitt Romney through

widespread voter fraud.

 

This is especially interesting since Latter Day Saints are one of the most pro-Israel churches in America.  If... .in the sight of G-d.....

Mr. and Mrs Romney had the role of President and First Lady stolen from them for a minimum of four years.........

then it seems like there is an opportunity to pray about this injustice in a special way.  

 

I have the impression that Latter Day Saints might be among the most willing to discuss and potentially assist in the rebuilding of the

Jerusalem Third Temple........... and perhaps also in the Ezekiel chapter 40 temple that I have read may be centred outside Jerusalem in

a national park?

 

Could the 2012 election perhaps have been stolen from Mitt Romney?

 

The opportunity exists for the State of Utah to build an especially close relationship with

the Jewish people, with the nation of Israel........ and that relationship could factor in

with the attempt to devalue the USA petro-dollar.

 

[Jane_Doe]

@DennisTate, a good thing to know about LDS beliefs/culture is that we believe having a democratic voting right is a great thing and it is a responsibility to vote.  Which way a person votes is up to that person to study out themselves and you'll find members with a plethora of opinions.  The Church does not endorse/campaign for candidates or parties or such things, and it is against policy to use Church resources for such political purposes. Heck, the Church even declines to host voting booths to avoid getting entangled in that stuff.  

[DennisTate]

19 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

@DennisTate, a good thing to know about LDS beliefs/culture is that we believe having a democratic voting right is a great thing and it is a responsibility to vote.  Which way a person votes is up to that person to study out themselves and you'll find members with a plethora of opinions.  The Church does not endorse/campaign for candidates or parties or such things, and it is against policy to use Church resources for such political purposes. Heck, the Church even declines to host voting booths to avoid getting entangled in that stuff.  

 

Yes..... this is wise indeed.  

The idea of an artistic White Horse President and First Lady has the potential to go across party lines at level that 

an elected official cannot do.  One possible line that the artistic President Romney could go with is choosing a Democrat.... a woman  ... .for the 

role of Secretary of State......... and coming up with ways to lead her toward teshuvah / repentance now in 2018.  

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

 

Yes..... this is wise indeed.  

The idea of an artistic White Horse President and First Lady has the potential to go across party lines at level that 

an elected official cannot do.  One possible line that the artistic President Romney could go with is choosing a Democrat.... a woman  ... .for the 

role of Secretary of State......... and coming up with ways to lead her toward teshuvah / repentance now in 2018.  

The LDS church does not endorse Romney (they don't endorse any candidates) and campaigning for Romney is also not ok on Church grounds (cause it's not ok for anyone).

[DennisTate]

10 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

The LDS church does not endorse Romney (they don't endorse any candidates) and campaigning for Romney is also not ok on Church grounds (cause it's not ok for anyone).

Thank you for this information..... this means that I should move the bulk of the write up on what I have in mind over to this other forum where I have essentially total artistic freedom to speculate on how this could perhaps be done?

 

Exodus USA