Seeking productive feedback: letter dealing with misogyny in Primary

[Sunday21]

@Jane_Doe Thank you so much for caring about this issue. You are a lovely Person!

My stakepresident explained the great emphasis on young men by explaining that we need priesthood to serve in the future. My observation is that far more young men leave than young women. I completely agree that the situation is unfair. I honour you for caring. I am thrilled that you care!

In my area we lose almost all of our young men. It’s a crisis. From what I have read, far more young men leave in their late teens/early twenties than young women. We have to stop the hemoraging ....and the young women will benefit if we can stem the flow.

i respect you and I respect your motives! 

[Iggy]

Quote

I never was invited, nor did it occur to me that I was invited.  In fact, in the two years I taught Activity Days not a single Primary Presidency person ever said a word to me about anything, even when I asked.  In the last week since being called Scouts I've warranted 3 meetings with them and a fourth with the District Scout person (this was all before I was ready to talk about my concerns).  

Anyway, I think I will check that out the next time it comes around for you.  And thank you for the link.

That is so odd - This really isn't an "Invitation" type of class- nor is it like the Ward Council. Our Stake Presidency made it quite clear to the entire stake membership [at our Stake Conference] that ALL were encouraged to attend the councils, whether they had a teaching calling or not, as ALL members are Teachers. In our Stake, that means that every ward and branch (mine) meets on the 3rd Sunday of the month, during 2nd & 3rd hour. Little did we know that when this first came about, our little branch was the beta group. The Branch SS President and I (he is my hubby) read EVERYTHING online and watched EVERY video regarding Teaching In The Savior's Way. At that time, Hubby was in the hospital with a horrific case of staph in his right leg - from the toes up past his knees. The Stake SS President came to see him, brought all of the manuals, a thumb drive with EVERYTHING downloaded so Hubby could study it when he was awake and coherent. He was in the hospital for 15 days.

The nurses finally took away his lap-top to force him to sleep. Hubby has never been a lecture-to-you-teacher. He calls that being a Radio aka Broadcasting. He finds that adults are the ones who are most prone to NOT participating. They are more afraid of giving the wrong answer. Well, after a long minute of silence he says: I know that YOU all know the answer, so don't be afraid of blurting out the not-quite-correct answer first. What will that harm? What will that accomplish? You will learn how to find and retain the correct answer.

Now for the YW/YM and the youth - they give answers right away, and ergo - that is what this combined Come Follow Me program is all about. DISCUSSION! Not LECTURES. Hubby ran with it. He also stayed after the block so that ALL of the Primary Leaders could attend the Council. THAT was the one class that I really enjoyed. Talk about discussion/ministering/helping with wonderful suggestions. For the first 6 months the Stake leaders attended also.

To me, that is the same regarding the cub/boy scouts and the activity day girls. As we are now co-joining the Priesthood and RS with the Ministering rather than Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching, so we will be co-joining the primary boys and girls as well as the Young Men and Young Women.

I feel heartsick that your Ward is so hard-hearted regarding this. Have you talked with the Stake leaders about this? If it is Stake wide, then write your letter, BUT include ALL of the Stake Leaders and your Ward Leaders that have stewardship over this.

I would also make this a paper letter - being the person that I am I would snail mail it, return receipt requested. In my Branch, the *Powers To Be* know that when I pull the *All Business* card, I am mad, determined, and have given everyone on the lower rung of the ladder every opportunity to do more than flick their wrist at me and toss my concerns out the window.

That is where Hubby comes in ~ he edits my written responses down to one page. Removes all of the "I's", gives me 3rd grade level words to use rather than university professor words.

Or to be blunt: Keep It Simple -- Keep the wording simple. Oh, Hubby would veto the snail mail, and opt for making an appointment with all involved to meet at the Stake Center, stating ahead of time that you will need an hour to two hours, hand out the letter to everyone as they gather, then give them enough time to read it. THEN voice your suggestions NOT your complaints.

Make notes of every one's responses, reactions. Let them see you making notes. Pay attention. Listen to them. Answer their questions. Oh and YOU offer the opening prayer. IF at all possible, have everyone kneel for the opening prayer.

My prayers are with you.

[Iggy]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@Jane_Doe Thank you so much for caring about this issue. You are a lovely Person!

My stake president explained the great emphasis on young men by explaining that we need priesthood to serve in the future. My observation is that far more young men leave than young women. I completely agree that the situation is unfair. I honour you for caring. I am thrilled that you care!

In my area we lose almost all of our young men. It’s a crisis. From what I have read, far more young men leave in their late teens/early twenties than young women. We have to stop the hemorrhaging ....and the young women will benefit if we can stem the flow.

i respect you and I respect your motives! 

As a Temple & Family History Consultant, we are being told to include the youth of 11 years old and older and the newly converted adults in Family History work. To work alongside the Missionaries to introduce the investigators to family history. They have found that by doing this, it drastically slows the *hemorrhaging* and the new member retention is also greatly improved. 

@Jane_Doe if you take one meeting a month and make that a combined boy and girl meeting to do family history, that could be the start of getting all involved with each other. Talk with your Ward Temple & Family History Consultant Lead, and run with it. Start with the 2018 Leadership Session at RootsTech  https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2018-02-2300-leadership-session-at-rootstech-2018?lang=eng

Even though the ages of this group is younger - they don't say to exclude the 8 to 10 years olds. If the 8 yo and up girls are invited to the General RS Sessions, and the RS Birthday events stake wide, then why can't they be included and encouraged to learn and participate with Family History?

Just a thought ~ ~ ~

[Manners Matter]

@Jane_Doe I've had a few more thoughts about this. I wonder if the bishop even knows what's going on so you may want to approach it as "in case you're not aware" and point out the ratio of leaders to boys and girls. Bishops have a lot to keep track of so mentioning the disparity wouldn't hurt. Also, maybe suggest options such as:

A - combine the boys and girls and focus on the Faith in God requirements (in this day and age, armor is needed more than a doodad for collecting stamps, etc). There are all sorts of games you can play to make learning the Gospel fun (as you probably figured out while serving in AD). 20 kids might be a bit much so split it between the 8 &9 and 10 & 11 year olds.

B - combine all the boys every week (week 1 - Faith in God night; week 2 - cover a wolf req (refresher course for older); week 3 - cover a bear req; week 4 - cover a webelos req; week 5 - recognition night, refreshments only). This would probably be funner for the boys since there would be more kids to talk to. This would also free up some of the adults for other callings.

I really think there needs to be a transition to having a more spiritual focus so it's not such a shock when the new program comes out (assuming that the Gospel will be more prominent). Anyway, I hope changes will be made that you'll be happy with ... and soon!

Edited July 21, 2018 by Manners Matter

[Jane_Doe]

**Update**

Met with the Bishop today about this.  Spoke about my concerns and the reason for them, and got totally shut down "the handbook says this and we're going to do this to fulfill the program".  I asked about changing our hearts to better do the spiritual Christ-like things rather than just checking program boxes (a topic we as a ward have talked about literally EVEERY single week since they announced the ministering program).  Totally shut down again.

Honestly, yeah that hurt but this reaction was in the realm of possibilities I'd gone through beforehand.   What's being done is very wrong, I said my peace and did what's in my power.  And now I'm washing my hands of this and walking away-- not my circus, not my monkeys.  I'm not going to be involved in Scouts or Primary for a while, which is ok because I'm at a place where I really need to focus on my own life right now, including my job hunt and moving out of this stake (something totally unrelated to the Scouts/Primary thing). 

Please only encouraging supportive remarks.

[NeuroTypical]

Sorry it didn't go well.

[Guest MormonGator]

@Jane_Doe, I'm so sorry it didn't go well. Like you, I was hoping for a different outcome. Stay strong, we're all praying for you. Sending love. 

 

 

[Jane_Doe]

Also, thank everyone who's been supportive here.  It makes a big difference.

[Sunday21]

@Jane_Doe I am so sorry! The program was really important to you and you put your heart and soul into it. I find the lds culture to be strangely traditional. The light of progressive thought does not shine here. 

I really wonder what happens above the ward and above the stake level? I wonder what kind of pressure our local leaders are under?

Oh a brighter note! 🌞 Job Hunt! Now that’s exciting! You could totally change your life! What is your dream job? We have fingers crossed for you!

[Jane_Doe]

Today's combined RS/PH lesson was entitled "Why to not be afraid of change".

I nearly fell out of my seat laughing out of the irony.  Oh yeah, I'm going to participate here.    

Abridged story: I do now understand some of the dynamics going on in my ward better now, and certain individuals shortcomings/fears, much of it being based around a feeling of loss of control.  Got a better understanding of them as individuals and love of them despite their flaws.  I do think some folks fears were somewhat reduced, as people shared good stories about the growth that's come from changes.  We talked about many of the changes, including ditching Scouts, but the big focus was the introducing "Come Follow Me" for grown ups and how this is a good thing.  A lot of my comments (and other folks as well) were how this is an empowering move-- to take the reins of your own role in the Gospel.  Another person had great comments about how Eternal Life/ the Gospel is constant progression and change.  

Edited July 29, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Sunday21]

Dear @JaneDoe Yes! Some of us are very traditional! But they have other good qualities! Thinking of you!