MaryJehanne Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 On 8/5/2018 at 11:14 AM, DennisTate said: Very, very, very interesting indeed........ I think that it is an especially powerful point that the souls in Purgatory are indeed already Saved........ in a sense Purgatory could then perhaps correspond with the "Outer Darkness of Heaven" as a brilliant Christian visionary recently wrote about????? Hi, Dennis! I’m not familiar with those writings! The phrase “outer darkness”, as is found in Matthew, is in reference to Hell; is that what the writer was speaking to? God bless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisTate Posted August 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) On 8/9/2018 at 2:19 AM, MaryJehanne said: Hi, Dennis! I’m not familiar with those writings! The phrase “outer darkness”, as is found in Matthew, is in reference to Hell; is that what the writer was speaking to? God bless! The amazingly gifted Charismatic Catholic and / or Pentecostal visionary Pastor Rick Joyner had a dream of heaven...... and "hell" back in 1995 that reminds me of a near death experience in many ways. He actually met a deceased Christian friend of his in this state.... and they reported something like a rather scary or negative life review......... that in some senses might remind one of the scary and negative first near death experience of Dannion Brinkley, author of "Saved By The Light??????" In Pastor Joyner's book, "The Final Quest" there is a heading..... The Judgment Seat of Christ......... These comments are down about twenty paragraphs after that heading...... Quote Pastor Rick Joyner: "I then noticed someone I had known on earth. He had been a faithful believer, but I did not think he had done anything of significance. He was so physically unattractive on earth that it had made him shy. Here he had the same features, but was somehow more handsome than any person I had known on earth. He stepped up to me with an assurance and dignity that I had never seen in him, or anyone, before. "Heaven is much greater than we could have dreamed while on earth," he began. "This room is but the threshold of realms of glory that are far beyond the ability we had to comprehend. It is also true that the second death is much more terrible than we understood. Neither heaven or hell are like we thought they were. If I had known on earth what I know here I would not have lived the way that I did. You are blessed with a great grace to have come here before you have died." he said while looking at my garments. I then looked at myself. I still had the old mantle of humility on, with the armor under it. I felt both foul and crude standing before those who were so regal and beautiful. I began to think that I was in serious trouble if I was going to appear before the Lord like this. Like the eagles, my old acquaintance could understand my thoughts, and he replied to them: "Those who come here wearing that mantle have nothing to fear. That mantle is the highest rank of honor, and it is why they all bowed to you while you passed." "I did not notice anyone bowing to me," I replied, a bit disconcerted. "It is not improper," he continued. "Here we show each other the respect that is due. Even the angels serve us here, but only our God and His Christ are worshiped." I was still ashamed. I had to retrain myself to keep from bowing to these glorious ones, while at the same time wanting to hide myself because I looked so bad. Then I began lamenting the fact that my thoughts here were just as foolish here as they were one earth, and here everyone knew them! I felt both stained and stupid standing before these who were so awesome and pure. Again my old acquaintance responded to these thoughts. "We have our incorruptible bodies now, and you do not. Our minds are no longer hindered by sin. We are therefore able to comprehend many times what even the greatest earthly mind can fathom, and we will spend eternity growing in our ability to understand. This is so that we can know the Father, and understand the glory of His creation. On earth you cannot even begin to understand what the least of these here know, and we are the least of those here." "How could you be the least?" I asked with disbelief. "There is an aristocracy here. The rewards for our earthly lives are the eternal positions that we have here. This great multitude here are those whom the Lord called 'foolish virgins.' We knew the Lord, and trusted in His cross for deliverance from damnation, but we did not really live for Him, but for ourselves. We did not keep our vessels filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life, but we wasted our lives on earth." I was really surprised by this, but I also knew that no one could lie in that place. "The foolish virgins gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness," I protested. "And that we did. The grief that we experienced when we understood how we had so wasted our lives was beyond any grief possible on earth. The darkness of that grief can only be understood by those who have experienced it. Such darkness is magnified when it is revealed next to the glory of the One we failed. You are standing now among the lowest rank in heaven. There are no greater fools than the ones who know the great salvation of God, but then go on living for themselves. To come here and learn the reality of that folly is a grief beyond what an earthly soul can experience. We are those who suffered this outer darkness because of this greatest of follies." Whether or not Pastor Rick is an off the scale Christian literary genius up there with the best of them....... or if he actually had a genuine visionary dream of heaven back in 1995.... is a question far beyond my own Security Clearance Level with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus...... but if this is for real........ this explanation would help all of us to understand the amazing comparisons between modern near death experience accounts and the ancient Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory....... and modern Christian visions and dreams for that matter as well????? Edited August 11, 2018 by DennisTate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJehanne Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 On August 11, 2018 at 9:24 AM, DennisTate said: The amazingly gifted Charismatic Catholic and / or Pentecostal visionary Pastor Rick Joyner had a dream of heaven...... and "hell" back in 1995 that reminds me of a near death experience in many ways. He actually met a deceased Christian friend of his in this state.... and they reported something like a rather scary or negative life review......... that in some senses might remind one of the scary and negative first near death experience of Dannion Brinkley, author of "Saved By The Light??????" In Pastor Joyner's book, "The Final Quest" there is a heading..... The Judgment Seat of Christ......... These comments are down about twenty paragraphs after that heading...... Whether or not Pastor Rick is an off the scale Christian literary genius up there with the best of them....... or if he actually had a genuine visionary dream of heaven back in 1995.... is a question far beyond my own Security Clearance Level with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus...... but if this is for real........ this explanation would help all of us to understand the amazing comparisons between modern near death experience accounts and the ancient Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory....... and modern Christian visions and dreams for that matter as well????? Thank you! As far as I can see from looking him up, Mr. Joyner is Protestant, but I don't think he was ever Catholic! Hearing about near death experiences and personal visions can be helpful in strengthening a person's faith and opening their eyes to the miraculous nature of God's dealings with us on earth, however, it's important to be very careful of these, especially ones that are "visions" that pop up amidst everyday circumstances or that come from dreams. In evaluating a vision, whether a near-death experience or other, there are two major categories they can fall into: True and False. If they fall within the "false" category, there are three sub-possibilities: 1. The vision was an illusion, caused by faulty natural phenomena, such as brain damage. 2. The vision was a lie. 3. The vision was created by malevolent angels (demons), who have the ability to cause illusions (auditory/visual/tactile/etc.), to appear to human beings, to cause impressive unnatural phenomena, and to influence dreams. With all these options, it goes against the law of probability that all visions are true, as is apparent when some visions, whether we can tell they are true or not, contradict each other. If two contradict each other, that means one is correct and the other is false, or they both are false. Of course, when looking at these claims, I can evaluate them based on the Catholic Church to prove to myself the likelihood of whether they're true or not (such as the fact that this vision seems to be trying to argue against the existence of Hell, which is what outer darkness refers to, by claiming it's temporary; the point where the vision mentions "growing in ability to understand," which seems strange since Heaven is the Beatific Vision, in which we are united to God; and the part where the visions says only God and Christ are worshipped, with no mention of the Third Person, the Holy Spirit.), which won't be convincing for most on this forum, I know, since they're not Catholic! It's a huge, universal warning sign, though, if a vision is very flattering to the person promulgating it, which I believe this account is, even when claiming he's "humbled" while knowing how positive his humility is (or should be), in a sort of prideful humility. There is nothing in this vision that is meant to be truly negative about him, with even his "foolish thoughts" not seeming very bad. "That mantle is the highest rank of honor, and it is why they all bowed to you while you passed." "I did not notice anyone bowing to me," I replied, a bit disconcerted. "It is not improper," he continued. "Here we show each other the respect that is due. Even the angels serve us here, but only our God and His Christ are worshiped." "I was still ashamed. I had to retrain myself to keep from bowing to these glorious ones, while at the same time wanting to hide myself because I looked so bad." Anyway... I think near-death experiences can be good, but anything positive found in visions can be found in the already-existing doctrine and writings of the Church (although I know this differs from the LDS belief). I frequently read about Sr. Faustina's encounters with God, but these do not differ from or substantially add to His previous instructions to us. Divine Mercy is not a new concept, He's just further emphasizing it. Likewise, Fatima taught nothing new, just brought awareness to what was already known and emphasized the need for action. Because the idea of visions can be impressive and sensational, false visions can be used to attract and mislead people. I hope I'm not being too brazen in this post or anything, I just wanted to comment that it's always good to be cautious and aware of these encounters and to realize that they're only supplements to God's Truth! God bless! DennisTate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisTate Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MaryJehanne said: Thank you! As far as I can see from looking him up, Mr. Joyner is Protestant, but I don't think he was ever Catholic! Hearing about near death experiences and personal visions can be helpful in strengthening a person's faith and opening their eyes to the miraculous nature of God's dealings with us on earth, however, it's important to be very careful of these, especially ones that are "visions" that pop up amidst everyday circumstances or that come from dreams. In evaluating a vision, whether a near-death experience or other, there are two major categories they can fall into: True and False. If they fall within the "false" category, there are three sub-possibilities: 1. The vision was an illusion, caused by faulty natural phenomena, such as brain damage. 2. The vision was a lie. 3. The vision was created by malevolent angels (demons), who have the ability to cause illusions (auditory/visual/tactile/etc.), to appear to human beings, to cause impressive unnatural phenomena, and to influence dreams. With all these options, it goes against the law of probability that all visions are true, as is apparent when some visions, whether we can tell they are true or not, contradict each other. If two contradict each other, that means one is correct and the other is false, or they both are false. Of course, when looking at these claims, I can evaluate them based on the Catholic Church to prove to myself the likelihood of whether they're true or not (such as the fact that this vision seems to be trying to argue against the existence of Hell, which is what outer darkness refers to, by claiming it's temporary; the point where the vision mentions "growing in ability to understand," which seems strange since Heaven is the Beatific Vision, in which we are united to God; and the part where the visions says only God and Christ are worshipped, with no mention of the Third Person, the Holy Spirit.), which won't be convincing for most on this forum, I know, since they're not Catholic! It's a huge, universal warning sign, though, if a vision is very flattering to the person promulgating it, which I believe this account is, even when claiming he's "humbled" while knowing how positive his humility is (or should be), in a sort of prideful humility. There is nothing in this vision that is meant to be truly negative about him, with even his "foolish thoughts" not seeming very bad. "That mantle is the highest rank of honor, and it is why they all bowed to you while you passed." "I did not notice anyone bowing to me," I replied, a bit disconcerted. "It is not improper," he continued. "Here we show each other the respect that is due. Even the angels serve us here, but only our God and His Christ are worshiped." "I was still ashamed. I had to retrain myself to keep from bowing to these glorious ones, while at the same time wanting to hide myself because I looked so bad." Anyway... I think near-death experiences can be good, but anything positive found in visions can be found in the already-existing doctrine and writings of the Church (although I know this differs from the LDS belief). I frequently read about Sr. Faustina's encounters with God, but these do not differ from or substantially add to His previous instructions to us. Divine Mercy is not a new concept, He's just further emphasizing it. Likewise, Fatima taught nothing new, just brought awareness to what was already known and emphasized the need for action. Because the idea of visions can be impressive and sensational, false visions can be used to attract and mislead people. I hope I'm not being too brazen in this post or anything, I just wanted to comment that it's always good to be cautious and aware of these encounters and to realize that they're only supplements to God's Truth! God bless! So true.... and I found his books 'The Final Quest' and ' The Call' extremely helpful in assisting me to have at least some idea of the astonishing gifts that my Charismatic Catholic or Pentecostal wife has..... (she would not be offended by being called either since she was raised Catholic). I read those two book..... most parts of them anyway.... perhaps ten times to try to understand her. I believe that my wife is Sephardic Jewish genetically .... but has no interest in Judaism like I do yet....... Quote 3. The vision was created by malevolent angels (demons), who have the ability to cause illusions (auditory/visual/tactile/etc.), to appear to human beings, to cause impressive unnatural phenomena, and to influence dreams. Do the devils and demons fear Messiah Yeshua - Jesus? Yes.... so could their lying visions..... have a significant element of truth within that can be discerned.... by the Holy Spirit? I am thinking of the "Prophet" Balaam. Edited August 13, 2018 by DennisTate add comment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisTate Posted August 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) Wow... a preview of this book is available for free... .and I am seriously impressed! https://www.amazon.com/Gaze-Into-Heaven-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/1462111270 Quote The prophet Joseph Smith supplied the following on the subject: “All men know that they must die. And it is important that we should understand the reasons and causes of our exposure to the vicissitudes of life and of death, and the designs and purposes of God in our coming into the world, our sufferings here, and our departure hence. What is the object of our coming into existence, then dying and falling away, to be here no more? It is but reasonable to suppose that God would reveal something in reference to the matter, and it is a subject we ought to study more than any other. We ought to study it day and night, for the world is ignorant in reference to their true condition and relation [to God]. If we have any claim on our Heavenly Father for anything, it is for knowledge on this important subject... Could a man gaze into Heaven five minutes, you would know more than you would by reading all that ever was written on the subject. https://iandsutah.org/archive-2008/ I just listened to the following... and I sure don't want to lose this link: https://iandsutah.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/iands-08-01-jan-2008ray-gorman.mp3 Edited August 16, 2018 by DennisTate add link.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJehanne Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) On August 13, 2018 at 1:53 PM, DennisTate said: So true.... and I found his books 'The Final Quest' and ' The Call' extremely helpful in assisting me to have at least some idea of the astonishing gifts that my Charismatic Catholic or Pentecostal wife has..... (she would not be offended by being called either since she was raised Catholic). I read those two book..... most parts of them anyway.... perhaps ten times to try to understand her. I believe that my wife is Sephardic Jewish genetically .... but has no interest in Judaism like I do yet....... Do the devils and demons fear Messiah Yeshua - Jesus? Yes.... so could their lying visions..... have a significant element of truth within that can be discerned.... by the Holy Spirit? I am thinking of the "Prophet" Balaam. Hello, again, Dennis! Sorry for the long absence... Life picked up again. Yes, they do fear Him, because He is their Creator (which is a major point where I differ from LDS belief). You can see how they view Him through the Bible. In Matthew 8:29, it says, "They cried out, “What have you to do with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”" (emphasis added) Just a couple lines down in verse 31, it says, "The demons pleaded with him, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of swine.”"(emphasis added). In Mark 1:23-26: "In their synagogue was a man with an unclean spirit; he cried out, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!” Jesus rebuked him and said, “Quiet! Come out of him!” The unclean spirit convulsed him and with a loud cry came out of him. In each instance you can see the unperturbed authority of Christ and the fear of the demons, even acknowledging their powerlessness, saying, for instance, "if you drive us out," signaling that that is at Our Lord's behest, regardless of their wishes. They plead with Him; they ask if He is there to torment or destroy them. If a vision is inspired by a demon, I'd waste no time attempting to uncover a kernel of truth within it. If there were any, it would only be a bait to lure or confuse you into acknowledging the rest (the best lies are often mixed with truths, to make them more attractive and harder to refute). And I hardly think they'd risk providing you with anything that could possibly turn out to be helpful! I would think, to look for truth, it'd be best to read the Bible, authors such as St. Augustine and St. Francis DeSales, etc. Generally, as far as I know, visions and visitations are discerned, if at all, with the help of the Church, which can investigate claims. As a Catholic, I'd consider it dangerous to put too much stock in anything that had not been verified by the Church, and even then, the Church does not require that the faithful follow personal revelations (By legitimate personal revelations I still mean, of course, revelations that do not contradict Church teaching!). Edited August 31, 2018 by MaryJehanne DennisTate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisTate Posted August 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 5 hours ago, MaryJehanne said: Hello, again, Dennis! Sorry for the long absence... Life picked up again. Yes, they do fear Him, because He is their Creator (which is a major point where I differ from LDS belief). You can see how they view Him through the Bible. In Matthew 8:29, it says, "They cried out, “What have you to do with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”" (emphasis added) Just a couple lines down in verse 31, it says, "The demons pleaded with him, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of swine.”"(emphasis added). In Mark 1:23-26: "In their synagogue was a man with an unclean spirit; he cried out, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!” Jesus rebuked him and said, “Quiet! Come out of him!” The unclean spirit convulsed him and with a loud cry came out of him. In each instance you can see the unperturbed authority of Christ and the fear of the demons, even acknowledging their powerlessness, saying, for instance, "if you drive us out," signaling that that is at Our Lord's behest, regardless of their wishes. They plead with Him; they ask if He is there to torment or destroy them. If a vision is inspired by a demon, I'd waste no time attempting to uncover a kernel of truth within it. If there were any, it would only be a bait to lure or confuse you into acknowledging the rest (the best lies are often mixed with truths, to make them more attractive and harder to refute). And I hardly think they'd risk providing you with anything that could possibly turn out to be helpful! I would think, to look for truth, it'd be best to read the Bible, authors such as St. Augustine and St. Francis DeSales, etc. Generally, as far as I know, visions and visitations are discerned, if at all, with the help of the Church, which can investigate claims. As a Catholic, I'd consider it dangerous to put too much stock in anything that had not been verified by the Church, and even then, the Church does not require that the faithful follow personal revelations (By legitimate personal revelations I still mean, of course, revelations that do not contradict Church teaching!). I read an amazing explanation for hell that was given to an eleven year old near death experiencer. Many near death experiencers talked about fearing the light when they saw it...... and wanting to hide. Howard Storm Ph. D. even asked to be thrown back into hell as he reviewed his life and felt so guilty about how selfish he had been. https://www.near-death.com/experiences/children.html#a03 Cecil, age 11: Quote I replied, "Well, I'm kind of young to die."He chuckled. "We have babies die."I said, "Well, there's some things I want to know first."He replied, "What do you want to know?""What is death?" I asked.He said, "Turn and look to one side."As I did, I saw a bad car wreck. Several people had been killed. Out of some of the bodies a spirit came up to progress on.Some who did not believe it was possible stayed in their bodies and would not emerge. I asked if they could be reached and he said, "Yes, some more quickly than others and some maybe never." Death, then, is not believing in anything.I asked, "What is hell?"He said, "Turn and look again."I saw an old woman in a rocking chair determined to sit and rock and worry about children and grandchildren and everything else. Hell is therefore a lack of wisdom and not moving on, choosing not to go any further, sitting there and doing nothing. Hell is not a place.I asked if there was a Devil or Satan.He said to me, "Would God allow that?" He continued, "If I made you God for just a few seconds, what would you do first?"I knew my first act would be to eliminate any Devil or Satan. I asked, "How do I know right from wrong?"He replied, "Right is helping and being kind. Wrong is not only hurting someone but not helping when you can."We walked as I asked about the universe and reasons for everything. All of these things were shown to me. Then he wondered if I still wanted to return to the physical world."I do want to return."He asked, "Why?"I said I would help my mother whom my father had left with four children and one on the way. God kind of chuckled and asked me for the real reason. I said I would leave the Earth a little better than I found it.Then you may return with some of the knowledge of the things you have learned, but the rest will be veiled for a time. Live in such a way that you will not be going back when you return here again.I woke up face down in the mud of the river bottom and was 'lifted' to the top. I threw up great amounts of water, then pulled myself out of the river only to discover my brother had died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJehanne Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 On 8/31/2018 at 6:53 AM, DennisTate said: I read an amazing explanation for hell that was given to an eleven year old near death experiencer. Many near death experiencers talked about fearing the light when they saw it...... and wanting to hide. Howard Storm Ph. D. even asked to be thrown back into hell as he reviewed his life and felt so guilty about how selfish he had been. https://www.near-death.com/experiences/children.html#a03 Cecil, age 11: Thanks, Dennis! There may be truth in some in Near-Death experiences, and they certainly be fantastic and impressive, but I'd still say they're not a reliable source of truth, especially since the majority of the time there's no way to verify without doubt that they're true, despite what we feel/think/believe might be true. (I'm assuming that's the point you're trying to press! Please correct me if I'm wrong. ) I disagree with the picture painted by Cecil's death experience. Much more than a passive state of doing nothing and not moving on, Hell is a state of active hatred and cruelty towards each other. A person in Hell would not be peacefully rocking and ruminating. Peace is of God. Hell is absence of God and so can have no peace. "Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]). (https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-hell-there-is) (I'll also mention that next part of the near-death experience has now journeyed off the edge... God destroyed Satan? There is no Devil? I don't think I'm alone in denying that; the LDS, although they believe the nature of the Devil is different, still believe he exists. It's also a folly to ask a person what they would do and believe that their decision is the answer; a person is not God and they lack the knowledge and wisdom to understand Him and His decisions.) I'd also argue that Dr. Howard storm's desire to be cast into Hell was not honorable, although it certainly seems intended to sound so, since to desire Hell is to desire exclusion from God and is thus a selfish wish that lacks love for and trust in Our Lord God. While I think near-death experiences can open the door to faith, God doesn't want anyone to stop in the entryway. We have to go inside, venture deeper, discover His truths, His instructions, His Will. Without doing that, we won't learn anything more of Him. To know God is not just to know His love for us... we need to journey towards a deeper love for Him. God bless! DennisTate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisTate Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 On 9/7/2018 at 12:16 PM, MaryJehanne said: Thanks, Dennis! There may be truth in some in Near-Death experiences, and they certainly be fantastic and impressive, but I'd still say they're not a reliable source of truth, especially since the majority of the time there's no way to verify without doubt that they're true, despite what we feel/think/believe might be true. (I'm assuming that's the point you're trying to press! Please correct me if I'm wrong. ) I disagree with the picture painted by Cecil's death experience. Much more than a passive state of doing nothing and not moving on, Hell is a state of active hatred and cruelty towards each other. A person in Hell would not be peacefully rocking and ruminating. Peace is of God. Hell is absence of God and so can have no peace. "Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]). (https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-hell-there-is) (I'll also mention that next part of the near-death experience has now journeyed off the edge... God destroyed Satan? There is no Devil? I don't think I'm alone in denying that; the LDS, although they believe the nature of the Devil is different, still believe he exists. It's also a folly to ask a person what they would do and believe that their decision is the answer; a person is not God and they lack the knowledge and wisdom to understand Him and His decisions.) I'd also argue that Dr. Howard storm's desire to be cast into Hell was not honorable, although it certainly seems intended to sound so, since to desire Hell is to desire exclusion from God and is thus a selfish wish that lacks love for and trust in Our Lord God. While I think near-death experiences can open the door to faith, God doesn't want anyone to stop in the entryway. We have to go inside, venture deeper, discover His truths, His instructions, His Will. Without doing that, we won't learn anything more of Him. To know God is not just to know His love for us... we need to journey towards a deeper love for Him. God bless! I could be wrong..... but I have came to think of the scriptures..... as being like old wine........ and the valid NDE accounts that include a Life Review..... as being like new wine......... that may be more effective at winning some new people to faith........ Those of us who know the scriptures well may tend to be less interested in these accounts..... the danger in this is that we may miss out on how useful they can be in some cases of outreach to new believers. Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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