"Nothing has been revealed concerning evolution." Balderdash


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According to the October 2016 edition of New Era, "nothing has been revealed about evolution" and "the Church has no official position on evolution."

But the Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith and the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson spoke plainly against evolution.  The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: 

"It has been truthfully said that organic evolution is Satan’s chief weapon in this dispensation in his attempt to destroy the divine mission of Jesus Christ. It is a contemptible plot against faith in God and to destroy the effective belief in the divine atonement of our Redeemer� There is not and cannot be, any compromise between the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the theories of evolution. Were evolution true, there could be no remission of sin. In fact there could be no sin. (Ibid., p. 184)"

And the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson taught:

"Now, we have not been using the Book of Mormon as we should. Our homes are not as strong unless we are using it to bring our children to Christ. Our families may be corrupted by worldly trends and teachings unless we know how to use the book to expose and combat the falsehoods in socialism, organic evolution, rationalism, humanism, etc."

If the teachings of our own prophets don't constitute an "official position" for a given topic, then the church doesn't have an official position on anything. 

Edited by vitaminwater120
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Guest MormonGator

"I question the chastity and fidelity of your mother, Steve."-Bill
"Eh, no big deal." -Steve. 
"Organic evolution happened."-Bill 
 "OH MY GOD I AM NEVER TALKING TO YOU AGAIN."-Steve. 

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*Sigh*

There is no contradiction between what we know of the Gospel (God that created the world and they why of that creation) and knowing a little bit of the mechanisms He uses to do His wonders (which we can learn some of via science).   God is not magician to pull a bunny out of a hat from nothing via "magic", but rather a carpenter who uses laws and principles to accomplish His marvelous work.  Learning of those mechanisms is no way dangerous or bad.

What is dangerous and sinful is pride-- when we think we know more and don't need God or we dictate how God works.  I've seen scientists with that sin and non-scientists with that sin alike. 

 

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Guest MormonGator
Just now, Jane_Doe said:

*Sigh*

There is no contradiction between what we know of the Gospel (God that created the world and they why of that creation) and knowing a little bit of the mechanisms He uses to do His wonders (which we can learn some of via science).   God is not magician to pull a bunny out of a hat from nothing via "magic", but rather a carpenter who uses laws and principles to accomplish His marvelous work.  Learning of those mechanisms is no way dangerous or bad.

What is dangerous and sinful is pride-- when we think we know more and don't need God or we dictate how God works.  I've seen scientists with that sin and non-scientists with that sin alike. 

 

My thoughts as well. You can believe in organic evolution and the Book of Mormon. I do, anyway. 

It's a tired issue. No good can come from "debating" it. It's been beaten to death. 

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8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

*Sigh*

There is no contradiction between what we know of the Gospel (God that created the world and they why of that creation) and knowing a little bit of the mechanisms He uses to do His wonders (which we can learn some of via science).   God is not magician to pull a bunny out of a hat from nothing via "magic", but rather a carpenter who uses laws and principles to accomplish His marvelous work.  Learning of those mechanisms is no way dangerous or bad.

What is dangerous and sinful is pride-- when we think we know more and don't need God or we dictate how God works.  I've seen scientists with that sin and non-scientists with that sin alike. 

 

I pointed out a contradiction in the OP. 

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33 minutes ago, vitaminwater120 said:

According to the October 2016 edition of New Era, "nothing has been revealed about evolution" and "the Church has no official position on evolution."

But the Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith and the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson spoke plainly against evolution.  The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: 

"It has been truthfully said that organic evolution is Satan’s chief weapon in this dispensation in his attempt to destroy the divine mission of Jesus Christ. It is a contemptible plot against faith in God and to destroy the effective belief in the divine atonement of our Redeemer� There is not and cannot be, any compromise between the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the theories of evolution. Were evolution true, there could be no remission of sin. In fact there could be no sin. (Ibid., p. 184)"

And the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson taught:

"Now, we have not been using the Book of Mormon as we should. Our homes are not as strong unless we are using it to bring our children to Christ. Our families may be corrupted by worldly trends and teachings unless we know how to use the book to expose and combat the falsehoods in socialism, organic evolution, rationalism, humanism, etc."

If the teachings of our own prophets don't constitute an "official position" for a given topic, then the church doesn't have an official position on anything. 

These statements are not about organic evolution but about the adversary using it as a weapon. There are valid scientific purposes and applications for it that can be used for good. These have not been the product of divine revelation but of discovery of some of the principles of life in a fallen world. These statements encourage faith in Christ and the companionship of the Holy Ghost, which keeps all mortal learning in perspective.

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1 minute ago, vitaminwater120 said:

I pointed out a contradiction in the OP. 

Not really. 

The Benson quote is a scolding about neglecting God and scriptures.  And yes, if we ditch God for just what we think that is bad (because it is pride, not because thinking is bad).  The JFS quote is much the same.  

This lack of contradiction is also illustrated at BYU, where evolution is taught starting in the Bio 101 class and a course specifically on evolution is required for graduation in any biology related degree.

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40 minutes ago, vitaminwater120 said:

According to the October 2016 edition of New Era, "nothing has been revealed about evolution" and "the Church has no official position on evolution."

But the Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith and the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson spoke plainly against evolution.

These are not contradictory. Neither President Smith or President Benson claimed to have received revelation for the Church that evolution was false. And the Church does not have, and as far as I know never has had, any official position on organic evolution (or any other scientific theory).

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45 minutes ago, vitaminwater120 said:

According to the October 2016 edition of New Era, "nothing has been revealed about evolution" and "the Church has no official position on evolution."

But the Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith and the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson spoke plainly against evolution.  The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: 

"It has been truthfully said that organic evolution is Satan’s chief weapon in this dispensation in his attempt to destroy the divine mission of Jesus Christ. It is a contemptible plot against faith in God and to destroy the effective belief in the divine atonement of our Redeemer� There is not and cannot be, any compromise between the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the theories of evolution. Were evolution true, there could be no remission of sin. In fact there could be no sin. (Ibid., p. 184)"

And the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson taught:

"Now, we have not been using the Book of Mormon as we should. Our homes are not as strong unless we are using it to bring our children to Christ. Our families may be corrupted by worldly trends and teachings unless we know how to use the book to expose and combat the falsehoods in socialism, organic evolution, rationalism, humanism, etc."

If the teachings of our own prophets don't constitute an "official position" for a given topic, then the church doesn't have an official position on anything. 

Its a fact that according to the powers that be, things get published from time to time that are contradictory. The official position of the church is that man is not the result of a lower order of animal specie. All else is lies and deception.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, vitaminwater120 said:

If the teachings of our own prophets don't constitute an "official position" for a given topic, then the church doesn't have an official position on anything. 

Spoken as someone who does not really understand how God gives us Official Positions.

God commands unity from his Leadership and he commands multiple witnesses to his words.  Any one leader is a flawed human full of opinions.  But we have 15 prophets, seers and revealators (usually) when they are united then we have our Official Position.

On the subject of evolution we have had some very outspoken leaders about it and some of them have later become prophets... but historically the First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 have never had unity on the subject.  Thus it has never been an official Position.

On the other hand look to the changes President Nelson made the priesthood and ministering program.  He announced it, then he called two other leaders to witness and expand on the topic, and every leader has expressed unity with the changes...  Thus we see and Official Position.

Contrast that to the subject of evolution...  Where is the unity?     

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Guest MormonGator
2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

This lack of contradiction is also illustrated at BYU, where evolution is taught starting in the Bio 101 class and a course specifically on evolution is required for graduation in any biology related degree.

The school wouldn't be taken seriously if they didn't teach evolution. It's like an English major never reading anything by that Shakespeare guy. 

Edited by MormonGator
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It's kind of funny how we re-hash the same topics, and somehow it seemingly never gets old to do so.

Anyway, aside from other reasons that have been given in the past.  The use of organic evolution in respect to the creation of our earth, as I see it, would lack common sense.  If there are worlds without number that God has created, and if literal and direct creation of the body from the 'dust of the earth' were to be rejected as plausible, in my mind the most logical thing would be for Adam and Eve and all the animals to simply be born and then transplanted from another location.  Why re-invent the wheel, and re-hash the process of evolution if mankind and animal kind already exist?  Seems like a wasted effort, unless you somehow want to assume that animals on other worlds are not the same as the ones here.  The only alternative would be to assume that God had no other option but to use that method, but once again, if man and beast already exist, seems like an unnecessary procedure to go through the process of evolution.

Edited by person0
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The callings of the priesthood and those that serve (including apostles and prophets) is to reveal the gospel of Christ and prepare each individual to stand before G-d.  The gospel includes The Law, The Ordinances and the Everlasting Covenants.  The empirical sciences - though they give witness to the works and creations of G-d are not the same as the gospel of Christ.  According to Moroni Chapter 10 - everyone that comes into this life comes with different gifts from G-d.  The purpose of these gifts is that all may have place (of service) and that all can be strengthened and lifted towards G-d.  All things that testify of Christ and witness of his creation are good and of G-d.  All things that deny the Christ are not good.

Those that understand evolution to testify of Christ and the law of eternal progression - it is good and of G-d.  Those that use evolution to deny the Christ create a lie.  Some look for and find good and truth in evolution and through such witness are strengthened in Christ.  But some do not receive the witness in Christ of those what are given the gift of understanding and interpreting empirical science - and cannot be spiritually strengthened by such things.  No one can hear what they will not hear or see what they will not see.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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27 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

According to legend, Joseph Fielding Smith also said man would never walk on the moon. Turns out he could be wrong about things.

I get that question from time to time from my friends. "But, but, this guy who led the church said this about the moon!"
Yeah, we know this. 

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We don't have to believe anything that isn't true, and there's no reason not to accept evolution. You don't have to accept all the various spins and flavors the secular atheists give evolution in order to accept it.

The living God did not create matter, but he did organize it,  "Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space-- The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things." D&C 88:12-13

"We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell" Abraham 3:24

We do not believe in a God who creates from nothing at all. He does not cause things to pop into existence, neither can He. Given this understanding, something akin to evolution is exactly what you'd expect to find. To obtain something as complex as this body, or even the bodies of animals, you must start with a point, and build upon it, line upon line. This is true for all matter, living or non-living. Take the atom, its the building block of stuff, but even the atom is made up of smaller stuff, and those particles, of even smaller stuff, and this even smaller stuff, of elementary particles. The universe testifies of its organization and the laws which direct it, evolution is a facet of this testimony, in my opinion. 

The creation account in the Book of Abraham 4 is interesting for the language it uses. It's the planning phase of creation, so the chapter is in future tense. Considering that, it seems to me as though the Gods can see, by omniscience or just sheer experience, the consequences of their earliest actions. It reads "And the Gods saw that they would be obeyed, and that their plan was good." 

Some have suggested that advanced life was transplanted here from another world. This doesn't allow for any kind of ecosystem, this earth is made for itself, and everything is adapted to it. Besides that, I like the idea of an Earth being a seed which blossoms into a robust world.

 

 

Edited by LePeel
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2 hours ago, person0 said:

The use of organic evolution in respect to the creation of our earth, as I see it, would lack common sense.  If there are worlds without number that God has created, and if literal and direct creation of the body from the 'dust of the earth' were to be rejected as plausible, in my mind the most logical thing would be for Adam and Eve and all the animals to simply be born and then transplanted from another location.  Why re-invent the wheel, and re-hash the process of evolution if mankind and animal kind already exist?

2

Getting the process started with single-celled organisms and nudging development one way or another every so often might be easier than transplanting over the whole variety of microorganisms, insects, etc. etc.

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34 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

Getting the process started with single-celled organisms and nudging development one way or another every so often might be easier than transplanting over the whole variety of microorganisms, insects, etc. etc.

Given the speed at which celestial beings appear to be able to travel, and the length of time the evolution process takes, that is highly doubtful.

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9 minutes ago, LePeel said:

Lets take genetic and fossil.

You are going to have to be way more specific than that.  The simple version for genetics is that if it ain't broke don't fix it.  Similarities between creatures would be more related to using an existing solution and modifying it to a new purpose.  For example, if you have an old pair of pants, you could cut the legs and turn them into shorts, they would obviously be extremely similar in composition and use.  Same principle, different application.

However, you are asking me to answer your question, but you didn't answer the one I posited in my initial statement.

4 hours ago, person0 said:

Why re-invent the wheel, and re-hash the process of evolution if mankind and animal kind already exist?

If you read into this question, it also inherently includes the idea that even if we accept the idea that evolution is real, based on our knowledge that worlds without number have come and gone, we must also logically conclude that the process of evolution was initially completed an extremely long time ago (unless God didn't use it then and somehow started using it for us?).  Therefore, even if evolution were real, it would be a waste of time for God to use it specifically for our world, because he could just take the work He had already completed and migrate what he needed to here.  Either way, this world would not have any need to have been involved in the evolutionary process.

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