Spirit Children

[TurboGirl]

Why after we die would we continue to have children? After the second coming the earth will end so what is the point to having children? The church promises women in the church, that never have a chance to marry in this life, that they will have a chance in the next life and will have children then...but how do you raise a child in the church when they are already in Heaven? I was baptized in the church, and went off and on, but I just never really got into it. I didn't know some of the deep stuff until my mom died, and my dad got really into the church and married another women for time and eternity basically making him a polygamist. I have been trying to understand all this stuff, and I know there is no way of proving any of it. But every time me and my dad talk about the things I just can't wrap my head around it turns into a huge fight. So maybe someone here can help me at least understand what I am doing to trigger him so I can at least be able to talk with him again without the fighting.

[person0]

Do you believe we are the children of God?

. . .

Rather than ending and ceasing to exist, the earth will be made perfect and we will still live here - the earth will become Heaven.  It is technically not until after we are resurrected that we would have children again, but it will not be the same as having children in mortality.  What were we before we were born?  We were spirit children, we lived in Heaven with God our Father.  If we have children after being resurrected, those children would be spirit children also.  Why would we do that?  Why did Heavenly Father create us?  We would have children for the same reason He did.  Even once mortal life has ended, that does not mean God will stop doing His work.  He has created worlds without number.  Why?  To further His objective 'to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man'.  If we have children in the next life, we would seek to work with Him in fulfilling that objective.

Edited July 26, 2018 by person0
Elaboration

[CV75]

42 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

Why after we die would we continue to have children? After the second coming the earth will end so what is the point to having children? The church promises women in the church, that never have a chance to marry in this life, that they will have a chance in the next life and will have children then...but how do you raise a child in the church when they are already in Heaven? I was baptized in the church, and went off and on, but I just never really got into it. I didn't know some of the deep stuff until my mom died, and my dad got really into the church and married another women for time and eternity basically making him a polygamist. I have been trying to understand all this stuff, and I know there is no way of proving any of it. But every time me and my dad talk about the things I just can't wrap my head around it turns into a huge fight. So maybe someone here can help me at least understand what I am doing to trigger him so I can at least be able to talk with him again without the fighting.

We continue to have children (spirit children) because that is part of the plan of happiness; is is part of what gods do as God's children and part of what God does. We bring spirit children into this fallen world, raise them in the Gospel (or preach the Gospel to converts) so that they can be reborn in the spirit, and do temple work for the same reason (so God's spirit children can be "reborn" in the spirit world). After the resurrection, we can rejoin God in His exalted world and continue His work in the same way He does it.

With the second coming, the earth will end as a fallen place but will be transformed into a paradise for the Millennium, and sometime after become a glorified abode for celestial spirits in resurrected bodies. There are other physical abodes for the other degrees of glory.

[TurboGirl]

7 minutes ago, CV75 said:

We bring spirit children into this fallen world, raise them in the Gospel (or preach the Gospel to converts) so that they can be reborn in the spirit, and do temple work for the same reason (so God's spirit children can be "reborn" in the spirit world). After the resurrection, we can rejoin God in His exalted world and continue His work in the same way He does it.

 

So the having of spirit children can happen as soon as you and your husband have died? You don't have to wait to be exalted? And then they're just Spirits they don't have a real body because they haven't come to Earth. And does the having of spirit children happen the same way as here on Earth? Does a woman have to be pregnant for 9 months with a spirit child? And so God still having Spirit children to this day?

[Jane_Doe]

57 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

Why after we die would we continue to have children? After the second coming the earth will end so what is the point to having children? The church promises women in the church, that never have a chance to marry in this life, that they will have a chance in the next life and will have children then...but how do you raise a child in the church when they are already in Heaven? I was baptized in the church, and went off and on, but I just never really got into it. I didn't know some of the deep stuff until my mom died, and my dad got really into the church and married another women for time and eternity basically making him a polygamist. I have been trying to understand all this stuff, and I know there is no way of proving any of it. But every time me and my dad talk about the things I just can't wrap my head around it turns into a huge fight. So maybe someone here can help me at least understand what I am doing to trigger him so I can at least be able to talk with him again without the fighting.

I'm going to take things step by step, trying to make things as clear as possible when there are some things we don't know here. 

Big event: Christ's second coming.  The physical bodies of the righteous are risen from the grave, and the physical bodies of the wicked are destroyed.   Satan is bound.  A thousand years of peace on the Earth begins (this is still on the Earth, not in Heaven and the Final Judgement has not yet happened).  Christ is preached to all, He personally reigns on the Earth, and all these people come to accept Him.  During this time people do indeed continue to have physically have children the same way (a spirit child of the Father receiving a physical body from mom and dad, develops in the uterus, etc).  

Next big event: Satan is let loose upon the Earth and there is a great battle of righteous vs wicked.

Next big event: the Final Judgement. We are all judged and each inherit some degree of God's glory.  The Earth is cleansed and becomes Celestial-ized. 

If you want to talk about exaltation and having our spiritual children after then we can speculate on the little we know about that.  Such a spiritual birth doesn't involve a uterus, physical body, etc  so it's a very different thing to think about.  

[CV75]

8 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

So the having of spirit children can happen as soon as you and your husband have died? You don't have to wait to be exalted? And then they're just Spirits they don't have a real body because they haven't come to Earth. And does the having of spirit children happen the same way as here on Earth? Does a woman have to be pregnant for 9 months with a spirit child? And so God still having Spirit children to this day?

Having spirit children is a blessing for exalted couples only. I do not understand the specific science or mechanics of it, but I do understand that exalted couples enjoy a marriage relationship in every respect (D&C 130, "And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy."). I believe God continues to have spirit children.

[TurboGirl]

1 hour ago, person0 said:

Do you believe we are the children of God?

. . .

Rather than ending and ceasing to exist, the earth will be made perfect and we will still live here - the earth will become Heaven.  It is technically not until after we are resurrected that we would have children again, but it will not be the same as having children in mortality.  What were we before we were born?  We were spirit children, we lived in Heaven with God our Father.  If we have children after being resurrected, those children would be spirit children also.  Why would we do that?  Why did Heavenly Father create us?  We would have children for the same reason He did.  Even once mortal life has ended, that does not mean God will stop doing His work.  He has created worlds without number.  Why?  To further His objective 'to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man'.  If we have children in the next life, we would seek to work with Him in fulfilling that objective.

Do I believe we are children of God... That's kind of a tricky one for me right now. Do I hope there's something after this life...yes. Am I unclear as to what that is...definitely.

So when we were growing is Spirit children, would it be the same as our existence here on Earth growing as children? 

And that's another thing that I always hear, how we lived with our father in Heaven, but you never hear anything about your mother in heaven. So as a woman; how is being eternally pregnant and then your children never speaking of you again, a plan of happiness?

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

Do I hope there's something after this life...yes.

That's a great starting point. 

Hope you find the answers you seek @TurboGirl. Whatever you do, keep asking questions. That's how it is done. 

[LePeel]

Spirits cannot have children, a spirit doesn't have the faculties. The privilege of procreation is only given to mortals here on earth and to resurrected and exalted persons who are sealed for time and all eternity. 

"[for the wife is given to the husband] to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." D&C 132:63

The children of these exalted and eternal couples are spirits and are without flesh and bone. The same as we were before the world was. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by LePeel

[Jane_Doe]

14 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

So when we were growing is Spirit children, would it be the same as our existence here on Earth growing as children? 

Every person born on this Earth has a body and a spirit.  Take for example me: my body has physical fingers and toes.  My spirit is also very real, even though it doesn't the ability to kick a soccer ball on it's own.   

My body is 31 years old.    Genetically it comes from my mom and dad here on Earth, and I'm physically their daughter.  It has gotten bigger / more mature over time, both physically and as I've learned to take better care of it.

My spirit is billions of years old-- existing way way before my body did (way before the Earth even).   My spirit comes from my Father and Mother in Heaven, as I am spiritually their daughter.  My spirit has also matured through time: some before being physically born, some after being physically born, and some probably after my physical death.

(Please let me know if that didn't actually address your question so I can do better)

14 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

And that's another thing that I always hear, how we lived with our father in Heaven, but you never hear anything about your mother in heaven.

Here you go: https://www.lds.org/topics/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng

It's not something we know much about, and for sure falls into the "many great and marvelous things yet to be revealed" category.

14 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

So as a woman; how is being eternally pregnant and then your children never speaking of you again, a plan of happiness?

By pregnant you mean morning sick for 9months will growing a physical body in your uterus, to eventually be pushed out a birth canal?  No, not at all.    That's for physical bodies.  

We don't know how the spiritual development of a child happens, but we do know it's not physically growing a body in your uterus or pregnant as we think of here on earth.   

Edited July 27, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[person0]

37 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

So when we were growing is Spirit children, would it be the same as our existence here on Earth growing as children? 

I don't know what it was like, or what it would be like.  I assume it must be very different, because there is no physical body.

37 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

you never hear anything about your mother in heaven. So as a woman; how is being eternally pregnant and then your children never speaking of you again, a plan of happiness?

There is an article about it on lds.org Also, who said anything about being pregnant for eternity?  We don't know what the child bearing process is like in heaven, for a spirit child.  That might be the way it is done, or it might be different, or at least somewhat different.  We do know, that there is no pain involved in the process though, so it is certainly not like being pregnant on earth in that respect.  Additionally, if you really take the definition of eternity into consideration, is 7000 years really all that long?  Perhaps we lived with her for 100,000 years before even coming here, no one knows.  Many of God's children have already been resurrected and taken back to live with him at this point, so even less than a full 7000 years has passed.

38 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

Do I believe we are children of God... That's kind of a tricky one for me right now. Do I hope there's something after this life...yes. Am I unclear as to what that is...definitely.

One way to help better the conversation with your father may be to first acknowledge your personal desire to determine what you believe, then ask questions and be willing to interpret the answers from the paradigm of belief in the gospel (which is where your father is coming from).  Anyone can be a cynic, but you will have less contention and get better answers if you first seek to understand from the point of view of a believer.  Going about it in this way would in no way prevent you from still deciding what you believe on your own.

Edited July 27, 2018 by person0

[LePeel]

1 minute ago, person0 said:

We do know, that there is no pain involved in the process

How do we know there's no pain involved? I'm not saying there is, but how do we know?

[person0]

6 minutes ago, LePeel said:

How do we know there's no pain involved? I'm not saying there is, but how do we know?

Pain in childbirth is a result of the fallen mortal condition.  God said to Eve:

Quote

. . . I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; . . . (Genesis 3:16)

Also:

Quote

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.  (Revelation 21:4) emphasis added

[LePeel]

2 minutes ago, person0 said:

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.  (Revelation 21:4) emphasis added

Does this apply to exalted persons, since God weeps in the book of Moses?

[person0]

28 minutes ago, LePeel said:

Does this apply to exalted persons, since God weeps in the book of Moses? 

Go back and read it, God answers that very question, because Enoch asks it.  The only 'pain' an exalted being experiences is sorrow for the wickedness and therefore suffering mortals bring upon themselves:

Quote

. . . wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?  (Moses 7:37)

Edited July 27, 2018 by person0

[TurboGirl]

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Here you go: https://www.lds.org/topics/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng

It's not something we know much about, and for sure falls into the "many great and marvelous things yet to be revealed" category.

By pregnant you mean morning sick for 9months will growing a physical body in your uterus, to eventually be pushed out a birth canal?  No, not at all.    That's for physical bodies.  

We don't know how the spiritual development of a child happens, but we do know it's not physically growing a body in your uterus or pregnant as we think of here on earth.   

I have read this about the heavenly mother. But when I went to church as a youth, some 30 plus years ago, she was never talked about. In fact it's a fairly recent thing that they've started to bring her up. I get the biblical Jesus "pray to my father in my name", but yet there is nothing in art or music about heavenly mother. As a last act before my mother was buried they covered her face, and as I understand in the temple women cover their face... If women are so sacred and important why is that part of it?

And even if a spiritual pregnancy is different than a mortal pregnancy... Why is raising children the main thing? Would it be more pleasant in Heaven to enjoy a couple hundred years of not having children? Like a honeymoon of just you and your husband figuring out your new environment together. 

[person0]

6 minutes ago, TurboGirl said:

Would it be more pleasant in Heaven to enjoy a couple hundred years of not having children? Like a honeymoon of just you and your husband figuring out your new environment together. 

Possibly something like that will happen; who knows?  I presume that it could take quite a while to learn everything we need to know.

[TurboGirl]

3 hours ago, person0 said:

One way to help better the conversation with your father may be to first acknowledge your personal desire to determine what you believe, then ask questions and be willing to interpret the answers from the paradigm of belief in the gospel (which is where your father is coming from).  Anyone can be a cynic, but you will have less contention and get better answers if you first seek to understand from the point of view of a believer.  Going about it in this way would in no way prevent you from still deciding what you believe on your own.

And here lies the Dilemma. I can't see the Bible or the Book of Mormon as factual historical books. Jesus liked to teach in Fables, I see both book as stories. Also because of my dad's beliefs he's brought a person into our lives that is brought nothing but pain to our whole family, and because he married her for Time and Eternity, he will not admit that he made a huge mistake. he believes that my mom will accept this woman and live in polygamy for all eternity. I also don't see how unloving father would ask his daughter's to live this way. All this stuff is just doesn't seem right, doesn't sound like anything I would want to do for eternity. My dad prays and goes to the temple at least twice a week, for me to change. The fact that I can't wrap my head around this stuff causes him nothing but pain. And I don't know how to fix that. 

[BJ64]

Where does this concept of having “spirit children” come from? Where is the doctrine? And how does that concept fit in with this statement of Joseph Smith?

“I have another subject to dwell upon, which is calculated to exalt man; but it is impossible for me to say much on this subject. I shall therefore just touch upon it, for time will not permit me to say all. It is associated with the subject of the resurrection of the dead—namely, the soul—the mind of man —the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation. I do not believe the doctrine; I know better. Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so; and if you don’t believe me, it will not make the truth without effect. I will make a man appear a fool before I get through; if he does not believe it. I am going to tell of things more noble.

We say that God Himself is a self-existing being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. (Refers to the Bible.) How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says, “God made man out of the earth and put into him Adam’s spirit, and so became a living body.”

The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal [co-eternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their relatives and friends are only separated from their bodies for a short season: their spirits which existed with God have left the tabernacle of clay only for a little moment, as it were; and they now exist in a place where they converse together the same as we do on the earth.

I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it has a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven.

I want to reason more on the spirit of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the housetops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.

Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.

This is good doctrine. It tastes good. I can taste the principles of eternal life, and so can you. They are given to me by the revelations of Jesus Christ; and I know that when I tell you these words of eternal life as they are given to me, you taste them, and I know that you believe them. You say honey is sweet, and so do I. I can also taste the spirit of eternal life. I know that it is good; and when I tell you of these things which were given me by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, you are bound to receive them as sweet, and rejoice more and more.”

I don’t believe in the concept of giving birth to spirits. Joseph Smith certainly didn’t. 

The source of my quote is lds.org

Edited July 27, 2018 by BJ64

[LePeel]

55 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

I don’t believe in the concept of giving birth to spirits. Joseph Smith certainly didn’t. 

 

"Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory." TPJS pg. 300

Joseph Smith considered things like water to be eternal because the elements from which is it formed are eternal. Yet you couldn't say Joseph Smith believed H2O wasn't organized. When Joseph Smith used the word create, it was in the sectarian sense, that is ex nihilo. So, no, God does not have the power to "create" spirits, he can only organize them. I don't believe in the BYU philosophy department's notion that "intelligence" is an indestructible, irreducible, disembodied consciousness floating around in the void until someone makes it a spirit body. Besides all this, Doctrine and Covenants section 132 is crystal clear, the souls of men are borne by women.

Lets assume that these couples really aren't having spirit children. Then what are they having? Because its undeniable that they're having offspring. You must be saying then that they're having children in the flesh. But wait, there's two problems with this. #1, these children, if born in the flesh, are in an Edenic state of innocence, and are therefore in a state of damnation. This simply cannot be a thing, it defies justice and the logic of the Plan of Salvation. #2, these children must have spirits in them anyways, or else the flesh isn't truly the offspring of these exalted persons, they're husks, basically animals.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by LePeel

[BJ64]

2 minutes ago, LePeel said:

"Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory." TPJS pg. 300

Joseph Smith considered things like water to be eternal because the elements from which is it formed are eternal. Yet you couldn't say Joseph Smith believed H2O wasn't organized. When Joseph Smith used the word create, it was in the sectarian sense, that is ex nihilo. So, no, God does not have the power to "create" spirits, he can only organize them. I don't believe in the BYU philosophy department's notion that "intelligence" is an indestructible, irreducible, disembodied consciousness floating around in the void until someone makes them a spirit body. Besides all this, Doctrine and Covenants section 132 is crystal clear, the souls of men are borne by women.

Lets assume that these couples really aren't having spirit children. Then what are they having? Because its undeniable that they're having offspring. You must be saying then that they're having children in the flesh. But wait, there's two problems with this. #1, these children, if born in the flesh, are in an Edenic state of innocence, and are therefore in a state of damnation. This simply cannot be a thing, it defies justice and the logic of the Plan of Salvation. #2, these children must have spirits in them anyways, or else the flesh isn't truly the offspring of these exalted persons, they're husks, basically animals.

 

According to Joseph Smith spirits have always existed. Therefore there is no need to give birth to them. What our Heavenly parents did was create bodies of flesh and bone for our spirits  

God created this world and countless others. How do you suppose he populated them? Out of nothing? Did Adam and Eve appear out of nowhere? 

D&C 132 says nothing of giving birth to spirit children. It says a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 

[LePeel]

12 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

According to Joseph Smith spirits have always existed. Therefore there is no need to give birth to them. What our Heavenly parents did was create bodies of flesh and bone for our spirits  

God created this world and countless others. How do you suppose he populated them? Out of nothing? Did Adam and Eve appear out of nowhere? 

D&C 132 says nothing of giving birth to spirit children. It says a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 

I repeat myself.

"Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory." TPJS pg. 300

Joseph Smith considered things like water to be eternal because the elements from which is it formed are eternal. Yet you couldn't say Joseph Smith believed H2O wasn't organized. When Joseph Smith used the word create, it was in the sectarian sense, that is ex nihilo. So, no, God does not have the power to "create" spirits, he can only organize them. I don't believe in the BYU philosophy department's notion that "intelligence" is an indestructible, irreducible, disembodied consciousness floating around in the void until someone makes it a spirit body. Besides all this, Doctrine and Covenants section 132 is crystal clear, the souls of men are borne by women.

Lets assume that these couples really aren't having spirit children. Then what are they having? Because its undeniable that they're having offspring. You must be saying then that they're having children in the flesh. But wait, there's two problems with this. #1, these children, if born in the flesh, are in an Edenic state of innocence, and are therefore in a state of damnation. This simply cannot be a thing, it defies justice and the logic of the Plan of Salvation. #2, these children must have spirits in them anyways, or else the flesh isn't truly the offspring of these exalted persons, they're husks, basically animals.

 

21 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

D&C 132 says nothing of giving birth to spirit children. It says a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 

"[for the wife is given to the husband] to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." D&C 132:63 

Even if it didn't literally say women bear the souls of men. A continuation of the seeds can only be read as the couple continues to have offspring, no argument.

Your notion that spirits exist without a birth doesn't have sufficient explanatory power, it doesn't account for enough of the data to work.

[BJ64]

13 minutes ago, LePeel said:

I repeat myself.

"Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory." TPJS pg. 300

Joseph Smith considered things like water to be eternal because the elements from which is it formed are eternal. Yet you couldn't say Joseph Smith believed H2O wasn't organized. When Joseph Smith used the word create, it was in the sectarian sense, that is ex nihilo. So, no, God does not have the power to "create" spirits, he can only organize them. I don't believe in the BYU philosophy department's notion that "intelligence" is an indestructible, irreducible, disembodied consciousness floating around in the void until someone makes it a spirit body. Besides all this, Doctrine and Covenants section 132 is crystal clear, the souls of men are borne by women.

Lets assume that these couples really aren't having spirit children. Then what are they having? Because its undeniable that they're having offspring. You must be saying then that they're having children in the flesh. But wait, there's two problems with this. #1, these children, if born in the flesh, are in an Edenic state of innocence, and are therefore in a state of damnation. This simply cannot be a thing, it defies justice and the logic of the Plan of Salvation. #2, these children must have spirits in them anyways, or else the flesh isn't truly the offspring of these exalted persons, they're husks, basically animals.

 

"[for the wife is given to the husband] to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." D&C 132:63 

Even if it didn't literally say women bear the souls of men. A continuation of the seeds can only be read as the couple continues to have offspring, no argument.

Your notion that spirits exist without a birth doesn't have sufficient explanatory power, it doesn't account for enough of the data to work.

Read my post again. You obviously didn’t understand it. Only those who become gods will have a continuation of the seeds. How do you suppose gods populate the worlds they create? Do they populate them by putting  spirits into physical bodies created out of thin air? Brigham Young said there is only one way to create a physical body and that is how it has always been done. 

[person0]

7 hours ago, TurboGirl said:

And here lies the Dilemma. I can't see the Bible or the Book of Mormon as factual historical books. Jesus liked to teach in Fables, I see both book as stories. Also because of my dad's beliefs he's brought a person into our lives that is brought nothing but pain to our whole family, and because he married her for Time and Eternity, he will not admit that he made a huge mistake.

Why do you believe it was a huge mistake?  Is she a bad person?  From what you have written, it sounds like perhaps she treats your father and/or his children badly.  Also, if you do not see the Bible or Book of Mormon as factual, then what your objective in starting this discussion?  Are you actually seeking to understand LDS concepts?  Or do you have a different objective?  Are you trying to determine how to help your dad see your point of view?

[zil]

8 hours ago, TurboGirl said:

But when I went to church as a youth, some 30 plus years ago, she was never talked about. ... yet there is nothing in art or music about heavenly mother ...

Except in hymn #292, "O, My Father".

8 hours ago, TurboGirl said:

As a last act before my mother was buried they covered her face, and as I understand in the temple women cover their face... If women are so sacred and important why is that part of it?

Thoughts by a couple of people:

https://askgramps.org/women-wear-veils-temple-will-afterlife/

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2014/05/11/mothers-as-saviors

8 hours ago, TurboGirl said:

And even if a spiritual pregnancy is different than a mortal pregnancy... Why is raising children the main thing? Would it be more pleasant in Heaven to enjoy a couple hundred years of not having children? Like a honeymoon of just you and your husband figuring out your new environment together. 

1) There is no reason to believe that God rushes anything.  There is also no reason to believe he sits around idly wasting his time - that is a mortal trait.  But appropriate leisure and pastimes are mentioned even in General Conference as appropriate and necessary, so there's no reason to believe celestial beings are sentenced to hard labor for eternity.

Quote

Moses 1:39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

2) This is why "raising" children is the main thing.  This is the purpose of celestial beings - to help others achieve what they themselves have achieved, because there is no greater joy or glory, and therefore no more rewarding work.

If you are under the impression that this will be like spending eternity dealing with a herd of toddlers or a mob of teenagers, I suspect you're wrong.  Whether a spirit starts out in an infant state (of tiny dimensions) and matures (increases their dimensions), we don't know, but given that all intelligence is eternal in nature, I suspect nurturing a spirit is something quite different from nurturing a helpless physical infant.

Quote

“The mind or the intelligence which man possesses,” says Joseph Smith, “is co-equal with God himself.” What greater crime than the minimizing of such capacity? The Prophet continues, “All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement. . . . God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge.”¹⁷

-- Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion, Chapter 3: "Zeal without Knowledge"

What better thing to do in eternity than to help others advance in knowledge?

Exactly how many times can you create a supernova before it gets old?  Despite the uniqueness of every tree or butterfly you create or observe, how long will it be before you feel a compelling, overwhelming desire to interact with one who is capable of the infinite, as you are?

This is why "children are the main thing".

Edited July 27, 2018 by zil