Giving up on marriage


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I have been married for two years. About two months after we got married my husband started playing video games. I started dating him partly because he didn't play video games. Anyway we get home from work, eat and then he plays on his computer until midnight everyday. On Saturdays he doesn't come to bed until four or five in the morning. 

Another issue is that he can talk to his mom, sister, and best friends for hours. But when it comes to me we can only talk for about five minutes before he starts yelling. 

I'm sick of being yelled at and ignored. I know it's my fault. After we got married I found out that having kids will be very difficult. That's hard to find out in the Mormon culture. I've had three surgeries so far and still a long road ahead before we finally get to the point where I will have a 60 percent chance of carrying a baby full term. It's hard on me, but I know it's hard on him too, and maybe having and telling is just how he is getting through it. Ignoring me is easier than dealing with our issues. 

I stopped trying which finally got him to notice me. So now he is trying (which usually only lasts a week or so). But after each time he starts trying and I forgive him, he goes right back to ignoring me. Each time the ignoring part of it pattern lasts longer. I don't want to give him the ability to keep hurting me like that. Maybe it's better to end things now before kids are in the mix. Maybe it would be easier to be a single Mormon who can't have kids than a married one who can't. Then he would have the chance to meet and marry a girl who can give him what he needs because I just can't.

 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Wallflower, I'm so sorry for your struggle.  You two have some serious issues to work through, but I think there is hope for your marriage.  Remember when you first met?  The first time you said "I love you to each other?"  Your wedding day?   Ask him, I'm sure he remembers too.  After you talk about the good times that brought you together, then talk about going to therapy.  

People do a lot of different things to numb their pain, video games are one of them.  Not everyone that plays video games is numbing pain, of course.  Video games used in moderation could simply be a fun way to relax.  But when the video gaming becomes an obsession, it's likely it is a numbing strategy.  This is another thing that therapy can help with.  

Think about your wedding day and get some therapy to help you both work through this.  

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@Wall flower I am so sorry that you are going through this! Agree with Literate above. Why not make an appointment to see the bishop and discuss. You can adopt. If you talk to lds family services they can talk to you about the process. My stake president has adopted two children. I don’t know the story for both children but one child was an lds child. Before you go through the adoption process you need to work through the marriage problems. Good luck!

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@LiterateParakeet he is a very literal person. He doesn't really feel love like most people. The first time we told each other we loved the other he asked me to define love. Then asked if by that definition I loved him. I said yes. He was quite for a while and then said by that definition I love you too. It was more awkward than romantic. But I get the point you're trying to make about thinking about the good times. And I will look into talking to someone.

Edited by Wall flower
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What would happen if you started yelling back? If you became more assertive and stood up for yourself more? Is that worth a try? Or perhaps if you agreed on some rules and boudnaries, something along the lines of "if you start doing X then I'm going to (Y) X being any sort of behaviour from him that makes you feel uncomfortable, and Y being how you will respond to that behaviour. If you set some rules and he respects them, then there is hope for healing and progress. If he rejects your rules and disregards them, then that's a serious problem that will probably require outside help to solve. Best wishes. 

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I'm not super confrontational. When I yep back it upsets me even more and just escalates him. I started just going on bike rides when he gets angry and he is usually calmer when I get back. I suppose I could tell him that if he yells I will go on a bike ride until he calms down. I'm not sure that really fixes any problems tho.

And @mrmarklin I agree but he was amazing. Maybe he will be again... Or maybe he will keep getting worse. 

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On 7/28/2018 at 10:49 AM, Wall flower said:

The first time we told each other we loved the other he asked me to define love. Then asked if by that definition I loved him. I said yes. He was quite for a while and then said by that definition I love you too. It was more awkward than romantic.

Sounds like he may have not really learned yet how to experience/relate to/express emotion.  Does he have some tragic thing from his childhood?

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Nothing super traagic from his childhood. His whole family is kind of like that(mostly just the men). They don't ever say they love each other or show any obvious affection. He is the youngest of 7 and was homeschooled. He may have just never learned how to express his emotions. He told a whole group of people at church that he does not know what love is that he has never felt love our loved. He referred to the scripture that says something along the lines of "we love him because he first loved us". He believes that you can't love someone until they love you. Which seems like a problem to me. Because if he thinks I can't love him unless he loves me first, and he can't love me unless I love him first, there could never be any love on Earth only love of and from God

@Maureen one of his brothers does have Asperger's. I am an educator soI do know a bit about it. I have wondered if he is slightly autistic. If he is he is high functioning and barely on the spectrum. However I think he would be thoroughly offended if I asked him or suggested he be tested. 

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6 minutes ago, Wall flower said:

...However I think he would be thoroughly offended if I asked him or suggested he be tested. 

That's too bad. I think there is behavioral therapy that can be helpful for those with Asperger's.

M.

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1 hour ago, Wall flower said:

 

@Maureen one of his brothers does have Asperger's. I am an educator soI do know a bit about it. I have wondered if he is slightly autistic. If he is he is high functioning and barely on the spectrum. However I think he would be thoroughly offended if I asked him or suggested he be tested. 

I totally get not wanting anything to do with a label.  I'm in that boat myself about Aspergers: technically diagnosed (cause my mom forced everything about it when I was 13) but I REALLY don't want to be labeled-- I'm just me.  No I'm not exactly like Bob or Mike or Sally- because I'm not them, I'm Jane.  Yes I'm different, and that's 100% ok.  I don't need some psych label to be me or to "fix" me.

Now that being said, I do need to figure out how to work with Bob and Mike and Sally, who.... well they are three very different people and don't always make a lot of sense to me.  And it is practical for me to learn communication tools to communicate with them--  kind of like it's useful to have an adapter to make my iPhone take with my Dell computer.  Neither the iPhone or Dell are bad systems (I'm a fan of both) but communication and working together is needed to keep things rolling.  

When it comes to people, learning communication tools has been very good for me, and .... what I need here is a tool.  Labels don't matter.  And if this tool I'm putting in my toolbox also happens to be found in a toolbox labeled "useful tools for people with Asperger's" I don't care.  I'm just searching for what works for my happiness, my spouse's happiness, working relationships, etc.  

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The situation you are in does not excuse his behavior.  Stop putting so much blame on yourself and making excuses for him.  Walking away from this is not going to help either one of you because at the root of the problem is what is in your hearts and giving up won't change that.  Get yourselves to counseling and work this out.  This marriage can be saved, and you can be happy together, but you both need to do your part.  Right now your part is to let him know you are very unhappy and want the both of you to go to marriage counseling to make things better.  If he won't go, go alone.  If you can't afford it, talk to your bishop about that.

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On 7/28/2018 at 4:22 AM, Wall flower said:

I have been married for two years. About two months after we got married my husband started playing video games. I started dating him partly because he didn't play video games. Anyway we get home from work, eat and then he plays on his computer until midnight everyday. On Saturdays he doesn't come to bed until four or five in the morning. 

Another issue is that he can talk to his mom, sister, and best friends for hours. But when it comes to me we can only talk for about five minutes before he starts yelling. 

I'm sick of being yelled at and ignored. I know it's my fault. After we got married I found out that having kids will be very difficult. That's hard to find out in the Mormon culture. I've had three surgeries so far and still a long road ahead before we finally get to the point where I will have a 60 percent chance of carrying a baby full term. It's hard on me, but I know it's hard on him too, and maybe having and telling is just how he is getting through it. Ignoring me is easier than dealing with our issues. 

I stopped trying which finally got him to notice me. So now he is trying (which usually only lasts a week or so). But after each time he starts trying and I forgive him, he goes right back to ignoring me. Each time the ignoring part of it pattern lasts longer. I don't want to give him the ability to keep hurting me like that. Maybe it's better to end things now before kids are in the mix. Maybe it would be easier to be a single Mormon who can't have kids than a married one who can't. Then he would have the chance to meet and marry a girl who can give him what he needs because I just can't.

 

I think I had situation that I can relate to and maybe give you one guys experience.

When we first got married we had a lot of sex.  Now I didn't just get married so I can have sex.  There was so many things that drew me to her, fun, adventurous, hard working, frugal in many ways, but willing to spend on important stuff, etc. 

But then she got pregnant.  Sex life was gone.  Sucked not being able to have sex with her.  but I figured after the baby things would return.  The good sex life did return to some degree.  And then came more kids.

After the 4th the sex life didn't return.  As a guy that was frustrating as can be.  I still loved her, but that part of the relationship was gone.  I felt like she was neglecting me.  I turned to video games.  I need some release to my stress and I wasn't getting it through sex.  I certainly wasn't smart enough to find another way.  Things certainly weren't happy.  I would express my desire to have sex and she would feed me some line.  I got tired of it.  There was no point in asking any more so I just gave up.  I loved her and never wanted to be mean or hurt her, but I felt neglected.

I would come home from work and the first thing I would get is not a kiss or a hug, but a wife that either wanted to tell me how bad her day was or nag me about something I did wrong or didn't do or forgot or something else.  I didn't want to deal with that.  I did just as much work as she did, maybe even more.  So I would just shut down and go play video games and she would go to the bedroom.  I tried following a few times hoping for loving, but the loving never happened.  We were in a love death spiral.  she would love me a little less, I would love her a little less.  not good at all.

Looking back on that time in my life, I could have handled things so much better.  She could have handled things so much better.

What I have since learned is that love is not just a feeling.  Being in love can be far different than loving.  Love is a choice and it is an action.

You did not marry the perfect guy.  He did not marry the perfect woman.  My guess is that you are not the fun you that he married and he is not the guy that you married.  

Video games are a form of release.   It is a way to get away from your problems.  And it is certainly an addiction as well.  I dare bet that when he started he was feeling a lot of stress either from you or from new responsibility or work or some place.  And playing video games helps you escaped that stress.  This doesn't mean it is good to play video games, it just is explaining a major reason why.

So what got us out of our love death spiral?  It was mostly me.  I am not trying to pat myself on the shoulder.  It was me that helped get us into it.  I am telling you because the healing has to start from someone.  And let me tell you.  it sucks.  I decided I would change myself into the person I thought my wife would want to be married to.  Here are the things I did.

1) I made a chart of 8 things I would do to improve myself.  They included things to improve me physically, spiritually and capability to love. And I would daily check those things off as I did them.  And here they are

2) Pray

3) read the scriptures

4) stay on my new diet and reduce my weight

5) walk the dog in the morning.

6) walk the dog at night

7) Do at least a half hour of house work more than I usually did.

😎 Find a sincere compliment to pay her every day.

9) Find something kind to do for her every day.

10) -- this isn't part of my list, but I gave up video games...  Or at least the addiction to them.  I play from time to time like once every couple of weeks and only for a couple of hours.  Before it was every night for 2-4 hours a night.  refocusing on what is important get me off of them.

I didn't tell her I was doing this.  I figured the only way to fix this situation was to win her heart back.  I knew it was going to be hard.  I knew she would not respond at first.  I made up my mind to give it a year.  And after a year, if things weren't better, I could say that I put in a very sincere effort.  The first month wasn't too hard, but by month 4, I had put in a lot of effort without much in return.  I told myself not to expect anything in return and to just keep with the program and do so with the most loving attitude I could.  It was very much not easy.  however, in month 4 things started to change. 

I am an engineer and like to know that if I put A into a box, that I will get B out.  not C or D, but B.  If I want C or D, I would put something different in there.  But relationships aren't like that.  you aren't guaranteed that if you put A into the box you will get B out.  it could be M or P.   I had to commit to patience. I had to commit to controlling my anger.  When something went wrong and I got angry, I had to squish that emotion and approach the situation from perspective as devoid of emotion as possible.  No more yelling, no more negative actions.  When she would get mad at me for doing something, I would stay calm and say, I am sorry and I am trying my best.  And that really calmed things down.

Where are we today?  I look forward to seeing her every day.  She hugs me and kisses me every morning and night and when I am lucky a few times in between.  Is there still tension?  Not often and it gets dealt with quickly.  Are things perfect?  No.  I am still working on me and improving me.  I still daily look for ways to love my wife.  She treats me so much better.  We talk a lot more, go on dates, have romance, etc.

Learn to communicate in a loving way.  Don't be accusatory towards him....  You always. blah blah blah.  Yes, he probably is that.  but you pointing that out is not going to help you one bit.  It is part of a love death spiral.  You are putting yourself in a position of superiority over him.  You certainly would not like him to do that to you.  Loving communication is not hard to do, but not natural either.  You being mad at him and letting him know that you are mad isn't going to help you either.  I know, I was there.  My wife would get quite upset with me, but I didn't care.  I had nothing to lose if she got mad at me.  She could not use the you aren't getting any sex tool.  She had worn that out long ago and I didn't care.  So her getting mad had no effect.  

So what do you do?  I had a good idea of what was missing in my wife's life.  And so I have tried my best to do that for her.  Turn me into the person she would want to spend time with.  I understood that our problems were not just me, but were her as well, but I can only fix me.  You can only fix you.  You can't fix you with the thought that he has to fix himself if you fix you.  You have to take his actions out of the equation.  You fix you regardless of what his response is.

Treat him with kindness.  You think that you should get kindness in return for being kind to him.  Think otherwise.  Don't do this with expectations from him.  You do it out of love and because that is what Christ would do.  I have as my theme song "I'm trying to be like Jesus"  I don't know how many times I have listened to that song.  I cried a lot but it helped.

You are going to have to figure out how he likes to be loved and then love him.  You can take an online test about the 5 love languages to help you out.  It isn't the end all be all, but it certainly helps.  If sex is a difficulty for you, you may need to learn some other ways to help him out.  Be forgiving and patient.  This is going to take time and it won't be easy.  Love is not 50/50.  Jesus loves you regardless, he would show you kindness and forgiveness.  He would be patient and gentle.   These are things that heal relationships.

There are not guarantees. arm yourself with love and you have a fighting chance.

Good luck.

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On 7/28/2018 at 4:22 AM, Wall flower said:

I have been married for two years. About two months after we got married my husband started playing video games. I started dating him partly because he didn't play video games. Anyway we get home from work, eat and then he plays on his computer until midnight everyday. On Saturdays he doesn't come to bed until four or five in the morning. 

Another issue is that he can talk to his mom, sister, and best friends for hours. But when it comes to me we can only talk for about five minutes before he starts yelling. 

I'm sick of being yelled at and ignored. I know it's my fault. After we got married I found out that having kids will be very difficult. That's hard to find out in the Mormon culture. I've had three surgeries so far and still a long road ahead before we finally get to the point where I will have a 60 percent chance of carrying a baby full term. It's hard on me, but I know it's hard on him too, and maybe having and telling is just how he is getting through it. Ignoring me is easier than dealing with our issues. 

I stopped trying which finally got him to notice me. So now he is trying (which usually only lasts a week or so). But after each time he starts trying and I forgive him, he goes right back to ignoring me. Each time the ignoring part of it pattern lasts longer. I don't want to give him the ability to keep hurting me like that. Maybe it's better to end things now before kids are in the mix. Maybe it would be easier to be a single Mormon who can't have kids than a married one who can't. Then he would have the chance to meet and marry a girl who can give him what he needs because I just can't.

 

Sad to hear you're struggling Wall flower.  Latter-Day Marriage is right.  You need counseling.  So please go see what you can do about getting one.

In the meantime, here's what I would do in your situation (I have a completely different personality than you, though).

1.)  He plays video games and doesn't talk to you.
My husband is a huge football fan - so huge that we almost didn't get married because his team was losing and he is vehement that we can't start off our marriage on such bad luck.  Good thing the team pulled off a last minute win.  Anyway, I knew this coming into the marriage, so I had to just accept this.  In your case, you can demand that he limits his video game time.  But, limiting his video game time is completely separate from what he's going to replace that activity with - he could decide to go out with friends instead... which is still not good for you.  So, maybe my method of dealing with football season would work out for you.  My husband would watch football on TV, and I'd sit with him and read a book.  But, I also look up some of the players that are interesting - because I like reading about people - and so I would tell him, oh that quarterback guy left his girlfriend who is 5 months pregnant with their baby.  I want him to lose... and sometimes we'd end up cheering for opposing teams and I'd needle him if my team is winning and he'd get frustrated which is really fun for me (hah hah)... the entire time, I'm just glancing at the TV while I'm reading my book and he ends up talking to me about football for hours.  I can listen to my husband talk for hours about football and I don't even like the game!  Hah hah.   He loves talking to me about it and I love that he loves talking to me about it.  So, I was in the hospital recovering from a c-section during football season and my husband asked me about some football trivia that I was able to answer to his big surprise.  He left the hospital and got me diamond earrings because I knew what the Heisman Trophy is, not that I gave birth to his son.  Hah hah. 

2.)  I don't want to give him the ability to keep hurting me.
I'm going to guess that it is hurting you because what you want and what he gives are vastly different.  So what you need is to bridge this gap.  How to do that - there are 2 ways,  1 - tell him exactly what you want (literal men like your husband, and my husband too, don't get "hints") and see what he can do about it.  2 - change what you want to something he can give.

3.)  Define love.
That's easy for somebody literal.  Love is that all encompassing desire to bring someone with you close to Christ.  Talking for hours, cuddling, giving you flowers... that's not love itself.  That's expressions of love.  Maybe his expressions of love and your expressions of love do not match.  That's ok.  You can try to figure out what those expressions are for him and get comfort from those.  And then you can try to tell him - this is how I express love - and see what he says.  If his playing video games is taking either one of you farther from Christ then it is not love.  So tell him that and see what he says.  Also, if he doesn't give you something that is irrelevant to getting you closer to Christ, don't worry about it.  There are better things worth fighting for.

And that's all I have to say about that.  It's worth no more than 2 cents...

Edited by anatess2
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3 minutes ago, Wall flower said:

I did call a councilor. Is it bad for me to want to just go alone. At least for the first few times?

Not at all!  Getting a counselor is a great thing for whoever is going.  You need the support, than girl you go for it.

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1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

Not at all!  Getting a counselor is a great thing for whoever is going.  You need the support, than girl you go for it.

I told my husband I was going and he wanted to come with. But I'm not honest about our relationship when he is around. So I wanted to go alone first. What should I tell my husband to help him understand. I don't mind him coming to later appointments. But I need to talk to them first, so they can know the truth.

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19 minutes ago, Wall flower said:

I told my husband I was going and he wanted to come with. But I'm not honest about our relationship when he is around. So I wanted to go alone first. What should I tell my husband to help him understand. I don't mind him coming to later appointments. But I need to talk to them first, so they can know the truth.

You can seek counseling solo and as a married couple at the same time. 

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1 hour ago, Wall flower said:

I told my husband I was going and he wanted to come with. But I'm not honest about our relationship when he is around. So I wanted to go alone first. What should I tell my husband to help him understand. I don't mind him coming to later appointments. But I need to talk to them first, so they can know the truth.

This will have to be addressed one way or another.  Marriage cannot survive when one cannot be honest when the other is around.

So, I suggest you take him with you to counselling since he's interested (this means a lot - this means that he values you enough to try to fix things) and start being honest about your relationship right off the bat with him around.  The counselor will work with you through it all.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you go to the counselor alone it cannot be his counselor also. That will be your own. For couples therapy you both need to be present on day 1. 

His video game use is totally understandable. He is angry and depressed. He is shutting down. Having the prospect of never having his own child, it probably kills him inside. What he doesn't probably realize is that you may feel the same way. Devastated that you may not be able to have babies. His lack of affection as you mentioned comes from his family structure. My family gives hugs and kisses but also tells you when you are being stupid and are dressed ugly. So after marriage I had to make some changes and quick. My spouse comes from a family of professionals that don't often Express emotion or say what is on their mind. Lucky for me my spouse met me in the middle. 

I think you both will work it out. Also if you take away his video games he will just find something else to do.

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On 8/10/2018 at 9:03 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Yes.  But what is your health worth to you? (speaking in the martial and mental fashion)  And have you looked at the cost of divorce?

Yes I have. In a non messy devorce which this would be since i only really care about the stuff I had before we got married and my clothes. And we have our own money and no kids. It can cost as little as $300, and he told me if I want a devorce that's fine. Not that I have decided thats the way to go. But he is the one who hasn't let me go to counseling until now because of the cost.

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1 hour ago, Wall flower said:

Yes I have. In a non messy devorce which this would be since i only really care about the stuff I had before we got married and my clothes. And we have our own money and no kids. It can cost as little as $300, and he told me if I want a devorce that's fine. Not that I have decided thats the way to go. But he is the one who hasn't let me go to counseling until now because of the cost.

Not 'letting' you seek treatment you need is a MAJOR red flag.

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