LDS teen sueing Fellowship of Christian Athletes over religious discrimination


MrShorty
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 8/2/2018 at 2:25 PM, MrShorty said:

Came across this today: http://www.ldsliving.com/LDS-Teen-Alleges-She-Was-Denied-Leadership-Position-Because-She-s-Mormon-Sues-School-District/s/89012 links to https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article215920295.html

My brief summary -- she was a member of the FCA throughout high school, nominated by her peers to be on the chapter's leadership council, but ultimately denied the position because leaders of the FCA did not approve of her Mormon faith (Mormons are not Christian or not Christian enough or something like that).

I don't know what to think of this. Part of me wonders if the parties on both sides truly understand the issues around "Are Mormons Christians?" How does the popular "religious freedom" topic figure into this? Some Facebook commenters recalled that, back in the "good old days" Mormons were not even allowed to be members of the FCA.

I know that defining what/who is Christian gets tricky sometimes. Sometimes I wonder if a group like this would be better named "Fellowship of Protestant Athletes" since it so often seems that "Christian" in so many of these cases is really synonymous with "Protestant" -- a (large) subset of what more inclusive definitions would call Christian.

What do you think? Should Mormons use the law and the courts to "force" Christian/Protestant/Catholic groups to accept us? Should we be quicker to acknowledge the theological differences and acquiesce to these decisions by other, larger Christian groups?

I thought the MormonHub community might be interested in this.

IMHO, I think this LDS teen should respect the council of those who are over choosing leaders, and stop the law suit. In light of this, I would place this under the same as the Christian baker.

However, if I were 18 and I was denied a position due to my faith I would have been disappointed. So I have empathy for her and her disappointment. We should walk very carefully when it comes to religious freedom. When we honor religious freedoms, like this even though we are Christians, it will be better for all of us.

In my youth, I attended a private Christian Lutheran school. My parents wanted me to attend a different private Christian school at first, but the Christian school did not accept me because I was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They didn't come out and directly say this; although, the words they provided my parents it was pretty clear that my faith was at the root of not being enrolled. This actually turned out better for me in the long run though. The school I did attend was much better. I had a close friend that began attending this school and it was very clear how they viewed my faith. When I first showed up people were quite friendly. When they discovered my faith it was very intriguing how quickly certain individuals distanced themselves from me. Also, my friend began dating a girl from this school and for about a month or so, maybe longer (memory fuzzy), every other night or so my friend would say please call my girlfriend she want to talk to you. I was then preached to and told how being a member of my faith was not Christian and that I was going to hell. This was very common with students who went to this school and attended this church. I had another friend who every time I went to his house he would let me know I was going to hell because of my faith.

So, in the long run, not attending this school was a blessing from God due to my faith. The law suit should be stopped immediately. This will only serve to reduce religious freedom. It may be disappointing, but I would rather have this than where I see our political atmosphere heading.

Edited by Anddenex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 7:23 PM, beefche said:

What a bunch of hooey. They get to define their own membership. It makes complete sense to me that they want a leader to be someone that follows trinitarianism (sp?). 

 

I read the linked article, and it referenced the Equal Access doctrine, which the Clinton administration instituted. That act may have been one of the best results of his 8-years, at least from a religious liberty standpoint. What it guarantees, though, is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must be allowed equal access to public school accommodations as other extra-curricula clubs, should it choose to sponsor a student religious club. It does not mandate that Evangelical Christian clubs have an all-comers policy for selecting leadership. Sadly, this student is playing into the hands of the LGBT activists, who have successfully driven many Christian clubs from college campuses, using this same logic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I'm considering trying to join the leadership team of my school's FCA club. A already am and have been a member of the club for 2 years, and the FCA states that they want leaders who can lead by example, not exactly who can answer theological questions. I had a friend who tried to join the leadership team last year, and after talking for hours upon hours with the FCA regional director of our area, he was still denied. This regional director's whole reasoning for why my friend couldn't be a leader was that he wanted everyone "on the same page" with doctrine; but why should this matter if we are there to lead by example and not to teach doctrine, which might have some differences. We believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him as our Lord and Savior, and we strive to follow Him in all we do; why can we not join the leadership, why can we not be an example to others? The whole thing about it being a private organization so it can't be charged for religious discrimination is true in the legal sense; but even though it's okay legally doesn't mean it's morally the best decision. There's a reason the constitution protects against religious discrimination, I get that private organizations don't have to abide with this, but why wouldn't they? A popular phrase among Christians is "What would Jesus do?" Would Jesus deny anyone who believes in Him from standing as a witness of Him. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and I want to stand as an example and a witness of Him through being on the FCA leadership team. Why should I, a Christian with a few ideological differences from what may be considered "normal" by the FCA, be denied that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome, @Dylan!  Glad to have you here and look forward to reading your posts.  As to this question, I have only one answer for you:

Quote

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Unfortunately, I don't expect less persecution of the Church and its members, only more. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Dylan said:

We believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him as our Lord and Savior

Where do you live Dylan.  Sounds like the South, Bible belt, Baptist area.

I grew up in Texas.  I didn’t even try to join FCA.  I was too busy with sports and other extracurricular activities.

They served iced tea at every activity.

 

I greatly prefer the first Article of Faith to the above quote.

 

I was asked all the time if I was saved.  I would commonly ask, what does it meant to be saved?  I never heard a reasonable explanation.  Usually something like, you know Saved?!  Or, do you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior?  

Yes, Obviously.

I then routinely explained that I and everyone else will be resurrected.  And that because I was baptized and follow the gospel principles; by the grace of Jesus Christ, I may return to heaven to live with God again.

At that point they were generally speechless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Dylan said:

Would Jesus deny anyone who believes in Him from standing as a witness of Him.

Welcome to the forum @Dylan

Just a reminder of something which I am sure you are well aware of:

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the adevils also bbelieve, and tremble.

and

Matthew 7:21  Not every one that asaith unto me, bLord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that cdoeth the dwill of my Father which is in eheaven.

So in answer to your questions, yes, perhaps there are circumstances and occasions when Jesus would deny someone who believes in Him from standing as a witness to Him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, askandanswer said:

So in answer to your questions, yes, perhaps there are circumstances and occasions when Jesus would deny someone who believes in Him from standing as a witness to Him. 

Quote

Mark 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,

24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.

(Also in Luke 4:33-35)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Dylan said:

 Would Jesus deny anyone who believes in Him from standing as a witness of Him.

Well...

Quote

16 And I did endeavor to preach unto this people, but my mouth was shut, and I was forbidden that I should preach unto them; for behold they had wilfully rebelled against their God; and the beloved disciples were taken away out of the land, because of their iniquity.

17 But I did remain among them, but I was forbidden to preach unto them, because of the hardness of their hearts; and because of the hardness of their hearts the land was cursed for their sake.

 -- Mormon 1:16-17

I don't know if it applies to your situation.  But to answer your question, it does happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Dylan said:

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I'm considering trying to join the leadership team of my school's FCA club. A already am and have been a member of the club for 2 years, and the FCA states that they want leaders who can lead by example, not exactly who can answer theological questions. I had a friend who tried to join the leadership team last year, and after talking for hours upon hours with the FCA regional director of our area, he was still denied. This regional director's whole reasoning for why my friend couldn't be a leader was that he wanted everyone "on the same page" with doctrine; but why should this matter if we are there to lead by example and not to teach doctrine, which might have some differences. We believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him as our Lord and Savior, and we strive to follow Him in all we do; why can we not join the leadership, why can we not be an example to others? The whole thing about it being a private organization so it can't be charged for religious discrimination is true in the legal sense; but even though it's okay legally doesn't mean it's morally the best decision. There's a reason the constitution protects against religious discrimination, I get that private organizations don't have to abide with this, but why wouldn't they? A popular phrase among Christians is "What would Jesus do?" Would Jesus deny anyone who believes in Him from standing as a witness of Him. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and I want to stand as an example and a witness of Him through being on the FCA leadership team. Why should I, a Christian with a few ideological differences from what may be considered "normal" by the FCA, be denied that?

Welcome, Dylan.

FCA is just a group of people who want to associate with each other and work toward common goals. It appears they welcome Latter-day Saints as members, but don't want them as leaders. Is this fair? To be blunt: Yes, it's fair. People who form associations are allowed to choose how those associations manifest themselves. If we're honest, we will admit (heck, we will openly proclaim) that we do not see many doctrinal issues in the same light as our non-LDS Christian cousins.

Look at it this way. If your non-LDS friends wanted to join you in your Young Men's activities, would you welcome them? Of course you would. Would your bishop then call them to formal positions of leadership within the youth groups? Impossible, or at least highly unlikely. But that's discrimination! Well...yes. Yes, it is discrimination. The word "discrimination" means the ability to make distinctions between things. We can discriminate between a small cat and a large rat, and pick the cat out 10 times out of 10. Based on that distinction, we decide how we're going to treat the animal. We Latter-day Saints are in fact distinguishable from our other Christian friends, a thing we're not unhappy about. But this also means they probably won't ask us to preach in their churches, even if we visit their churches. They probably won't ask us to pray at their barbecues, even if we show up at their barbecues. And they probably won't invite us to be leaders in their organizations, even if they invite us to participate in them.

Try not to take it personally. Instead, if you're going to participate in FCA, do so with a positive attitude. Don't worry about leadership in the group. It could be worse; they could accept your application for leadership, then demand you change your beliefs and actions. This way is probably better for all involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Dylan said:

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I'm considering trying to join the leadership team of my school's FCA club. A already am and have been a member of the club for 2 years, and the FCA states that they want leaders who can lead by example, not exactly who can answer theological questions. I had a friend who tried to join the leadership team last year, and after talking for hours upon hours with the FCA regional director of our area, he was still denied. This regional director's whole reasoning for why my friend couldn't be a leader was that he wanted everyone "on the same page" with doctrine; but why should this matter if we are there to lead by example and not to teach doctrine, which might have some differences. We believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him as our Lord and Savior, and we strive to follow Him in all we do; why can we not join the leadership, why can we not be an example to others? The whole thing about it being a private organization so it can't be charged for religious discrimination is true in the legal sense; but even though it's okay legally doesn't mean it's morally the best decision. There's a reason the constitution protects against religious discrimination, I get that private organizations don't have to abide with this, but why wouldn't they? A popular phrase among Christians is "What would Jesus do?" Would Jesus deny anyone who believes in Him from standing as a witness of Him. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and I want to stand as an example and a witness of Him through being on the FCA leadership team. Why should I, a Christian with a few ideological differences from what may be considered "normal" by the FCA, be denied that?

Welcome, Dylan!

I would join with others who would say that FCA is a private organization with specific institutional goals (among which, as I understand it, is to turn out Trinitarian, Nicene Christians) and that if they don’t want to Latter-day Saints among their leadership ranks—well, their house, their rules.  🙂

Now, if the Spirit is telling you that you should still make the request—by all means, go for it.  It may create opportunities for good conversations that will lead folks to a higher path down the road; especially as you strive to comport yourself in a godly manner regardless of whatever opposition you face.  If, in the process, the local FCA bigwigs comport themselves in a way that openly shows to all and sundry that their religion has utterly failed to turn them into decent human beings (and may actually be excusing and exacerbating their natural human flaws)—well, all the better for us, as we try to model a more excellent way.  

But, don’t go into the thing thinking that they’re going to accept you.  They aren’t.  By their standards, we are damnable heretics.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Just_A_Guy's reply reminded me that there's leadership by formal position, and there's leadership.  @Dylan, don't worry about the administrative leadership (beyond what's already been said), be a leader regardless.  (That's not a suggestion to usurp authority from those who hold formal positions.  It is a suggestion to be the kind of person people will look up to and follow, regardless of their formal position - because of your integrity, kindness, honesty, etc.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/18/2023 at 12:49 PM, zil2 said:

@Just_A_Guy's reply reminded me that there's leadership by formal position, and there's leadership.  @Dylan, don't worry about the administrative leadership (beyond what's already been said), be a leader regardless.  (That's not a suggestion to usurp authority from those who hold formal positions.  It is a suggestion to be the kind of person people will look up to and follow, regardless of their formal position - because of your integrity, kindness, honesty, etc.)

This was the role Jesus filled. There is no way we would have been admitted into one of their "clubs" (Sadducees, Pharisees, etc) but rather went about doing good nonetheless and lead by example. Proving to others that we are true Christians will never happen via doctrinal debate. It will only happen as we take upon us His name and let His light shine through us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/17/2023 at 4:03 PM, Dylan said:

... the FCA states that they want leaders who can lead by example, not exactly who can answer theological questions. I had a friend who tried to join the leadership team last year, and after talking for hours upon hours with the FCA regional director of our area, he was still denied. This regional director's whole reasoning for why my friend couldn't be a leader was that he wanted everyone "on the same page" with doctrine; but why should this matter if we are there to lead by example and not to teach doctrine, ... Why should I, a Christian with a few ideological differences from what may be considered "normal" by the FCA, be denied that?

FCA is Evangelical Christian. It's similar in that sense to Promise Keepers, Intervarsity Christian Fellowship, Non-denominational churches, and many Christian colleges/universities. These organizations/churches don't emphasize doctrine WITHIN Evangelicalism. Nevertheless, as a Christian, Evangelical organization they will have some doctrinal norms, such as belief in the Triune God, salvation by faith (which often excludes Catholics), etc. So, why would you seek to be a leader in an organization that promotes teachings you don't agree with? If your distinctives are true, if the Holy Ghost is mighty in you, then you don't need to be a leader for that to shine. On the other hand, by becoming a leader you might be perceived as supporting teachings that you don't agree with. Perhaps FCA has done you an unwitting favor. 

Edited by prisonchaplain
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome @Dylan, rather than saying the same thing I will just say what is said above is accurate and true.

Does your friend have rights to be disappointed. Sure thing. Do we have rights to force our beliefs, or way of thinking on others, no. As I specified above, I attended a private Christian school when I was younger. One of the greatest blessings in my life was one of the teachers from that school. When the Lord says, as through his prophets, that when we look back what we thought were coincidences may not be coincidences after all -- this is the way I feel about this teacher. He started at the school the same time I did, and left the school the same time I did. I thoroughly believe this was directed by the Lord.

I participated in all the events, even on Ash Wednesday, having the cross of ash placed on my forehead. We want to enjoy the same freedoms and respect for our beliefs. In that light, let us give them the same privileges, freedoms, and rights we also would expect.

Edited by Anddenex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share