Guest Starsky Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70+Apr 19 2004, 08:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Apr 19 2004, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--AFDaw@Apr 19 2004, 08:58 AM I think Starsky is saying that we haven't called Serapha the devil and told her she was going to hell unlike some of the people from CF who told us we were going to hell. Oh, I wasn't aware of all that... makes sense now!I wondered why Starsky was being so MEAN... I try not to be too mean..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Apr 18 2004, 11:38 PM Oh please.Drinking coffee does not lead to criticizing leadership. Certainly you can come up with a better thought than that. And, drinking coffee does not make you a hypocrit (if you are an active Mormon). Stop and think for a moment why that is not necissarily so. I too tired to type it all out. LOL ....sorry you are too tired...but you are going to have to spell it out for me... because....I totally know it does lead to criticizing leaders....it totally drives the Spirit out of those who are drinking it....unless it is for medicinal reasons...And if you are lying to get the TR then you are a hypocrite.... Seriously! Okay, I'll spell it out, but I shouldn't have to.Being an active Mormon and drinking coffee no more makes you a hypocrite than being an active Mormon and not paying a full tithe, or not attending your weekly meetings, or not treating other's kindly, or not repenting daily, or not being completely and unabiguously honest in all your affaris or standing in judgement of others, or being contentious, or thinking about sex (not your spouse) or blah, blah, blah makes you a hypocrite. There is no magic ingredient in coffee that makes you one.Beyond that, a person may be active, yet disagree with the principle of the WoW and so ignores it but doesn't act like they obey it - publically, so they would not be a hypocrite.Or, a person may just not have overcome that particular transgression but is working on it, just like you haven't overcome the sin of spreading false doctrine yet but I know that you are working on it.Your point about drinking caffeine leading to criticism of leaders is without evidence or argument so there is nothing to refute except your opinion. Put a little meat on the bone and I'll address it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by serapha@Apr 13 2004, 06:24 PM The point I am trying to make is this...If the CoJCoLDS's gave their word that they would cease the practice of baptizing the dead for the Jewish holocaust victims ... why isn't their "word" any good? THAT's the fabrication. That a church would say one thing and then do another.~serapha~ Serapha, It's not that there word isnt any good. I have family that was there, am I not suppose to do my familes work because of what the jews are complaining about? I think that choice is left up to the family members, others will not do any work unless it has been submitted by a family member requesting that work be done for there family... It has nothing to do with keeping a promise to the jews...It's more about freedom of choosing if you want the work done or not...and the jews should not be able to take away that religouse freedom just because they dont want there members to have there work done. That should be left up to the families not the jewish churchjust my thoughts Laureltree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Actually snow I can say you are exactly right, no matter what church I have been in , in all of my life I have had the same problems... If I didnt head the lords word I fell away and question his word....even when I was catholic. When you are spiritually fit and living the lords commandments you are more at tune to the spirit. Laureltree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serapha Posted April 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 JendaAs long as you continue to lie about it, it will stand between God and you.I asked for proof... and you diverted the subject and threatened me with "moderator status". And, Serapha, from now on, you need to be nice when you post, that is one of the rules here, or you will be put on moderated status. That's a threat to keep me from contronting you again and expecting you to post the proof of your statement. Is that how you avoid answering questions when they are put to you point blank?I didn 't acuse YOU of lying.. but you tell me that I continue in a lie?I am reporting your conduct. So put me on moderator status if you want.. I came to this forum already crucified... and you have looked for an excuse ..Well, you got it. I'm not backing down.I want the proof of your accustion or I want a public apology. ~serapha~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 I love drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by serapha@Apr 19 2004, 10:15 PM I came to this forum already crucified. "Crucified"?!? Illusions of diety, perhaps? Persecution complex? Or just bad, bad rhetoric? I'll go with #3, Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by serapha@Apr 19 2004, 09:15 PM JendaAs long as you continue to lie about it, it will stand between God and you.I asked for proof... and you diverted the subject and threatened me with "moderator status". No, I didn't divert the subject, what I said about moderated status was an aside. That aside had to do with your "put up or shut up" statement. I even highlighted it so you would understand that that was what I was talking about.And, Serapha, from now on, you need to be nice when you post, that is one of the rules here, or you will be put on moderated status. That's a threat to keep me from contronting you again and expecting you to post the proof of your statement.You can confront me all you want. But the proof is on you at this point in time. You are the one who made the first accusation. Is that how you avoid answering questions when they are put to you point blank?I didn 't acuse YOU of lying.. but you tell me that I continue in a lie?I am reporting your conduct. So put me on moderator status if you want.. I came to this forum already crucified... and you have looked for an excuse ..Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree. Since I am not LDS, I have no hidden motives here. Now, if you came to my church's board, then I might. Here, all I am concerned with is how people treat each other. In case you need to recall the rules of the board, they are pinned to the top of the topic index. Well, you got it. I'm not backing down.I want the proof of your accustion or I want a public apology. ~serapha~ I'm not asking you to back down, but you do need to address the problem you have created by accusing everyone here of trolling on another board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 This is final warning....enuff of the drama, talk about it in pm or with a moderator, but not in a public forum........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by LaurelTree@Apr 20 2004, 12:17 PM This is final warning....enuff of the drama, talk about it in pm or with a moderator, but not in a public forum........ There, right there. Did you see? Laurel was exercising dominion over us. I hope for the sake of her soul that it was righteous dominion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 lol I hope so to or I will be ripped to shreds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serapha Posted April 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by serapha@Apr 18 2004, 12:12 PM just so you know... I have seen a couple of conversions in the past 4-5 weeks on other forums. You do get exactly what you seek... If you seek converts, you will find them... If your purpose on this forum is just to bash other forums, other denominations, or even to bash your own church teachings, then don't wonder why you don't see conversions through this site. Serapha,Think through that for just a minute. As contentious as this place get, admittedly pretty contentious, there is nowhere the bigotry and hate mongerging against other religions as there is on christianforum. If your point is that CF converts people because it isn't contentious, your flat out wrong. It may help in conversions despite the ugliness but not because the ugliness isn't there.Snow, I just ran across this in looking for something else... and this posting needs addressing.Myself, personally.... I was banned from Christianforums because I demanded publicly that the "unorthodox" forum needed the consistent application of rules, that the rules, as established, were not fair to everyone. In particular was "word usage"... and the particular word was "cult"... Now... I was banned for rule 7... flaming a moderator and for continuing to post publicly that there was a problem. 30 days... no previous official warnings. More than once on the "unorthodox" forum, I went to bat FOR the mormons against stevej, momm7 (sic), calgal, and Wrigley.More than one, I was criticized and told that I was "coddling the mormons".. and "holding their hands as they entered hell".... those are some of the nicer comments.... More than once, I asked moderators to step in and stop the practices that you describe... so much so that my "reports" would go unattended.And even worse, every time I filed a report, the moderators would lay it back on me... I should consider it to be an evangelism opportunity. If I moved one inch, I heard about it from either the moderators in public postings (this happened several times) or in private (or public) from the evangelicals. I have numerous PM's in my files at CF from members of the CoJCoLDS's because I didn't participate in the nastiness that does go on there. Several times I posted information from the LDS official site for discussion, and it would be removed. I posted the first two "missionary discussions" on the open forum, and they were "closed" by moderators. I asked for discussion/debate on the book of mormon, and that was refused by the owner of the site.I was in a tremendous discussion on the book of Ephesians with both mormons and "non-mormons" that got shut down by the evangelicals because they thought that a mormon was leading the discussions.I just get tired of being bashed for all that goes on at another forum when I didn't participate in that conduct but ONE TIME... and that was the "troll day"... when the moderator told me, once again, to use it as an evangelism tool.... If you don't like the "bigotry and hate mongerging" on that forum, you have two choices...1) do nothing.2) change the mindset. thereBut don't post to me as though I was a part of it or that I condoned it... my record, if anyone checked it, says differently... I told you... I am not sinking to the level of personal insults... I'm not doing it here... and I don't do it there. I am a on a high horse..... and I'm staying there. I see conversions... so someone must see through all my "bigotry and hate mongering" enough to see the love of Christ in me while I ride my high horse. So... just can it. I don't want to hear it any more.I've been "crucified" for mormonism on that forum (banned and ostracised)... As contentious as this place get, admittedly pretty contentious, there is nowhere the bigotry and hate mongerging against other religions as there is on christianforum. I have to agree, that "usually" the members of the CoJCoLDS's does not express hatred toward a denomination. "you guys" don't have any hate left when you are done bashing the "anti-mormons"... which, I have learned, is anyone outside mormonism. Why focus on a denomination when you can hate the whole world and justify it? I've said it before... don't you people know what you look like here???? There's never "love" here.... never compassion... Or, if there is love, it must be through the pm's.... because publicly, this forum is filled with contention and hate. Go to Christianforums and read tomnossor's stuff. All of you could learn from tom an effective way to communicate mormonism to the world. I would tell you to go read tom white's stuff, but he left the same time I did... when "you guys" trolled the forum. He got "fed up" with everying that day just as I did. Me and a mormon in agreement... wow. I'm done venting.... but don't shovel CF to me and their rules and how they look on the Unorthodox forums.... there are hundreds of forums there that aren't like the unorthodox forums, and where people get a lot of help. I've already paid the price for "standing up" at CF and demanding change... now.. why don't you pay the price.... I've already had my 39 lashes... and they have all been from the tongue. If you don't like what you see and read... do something about it rather than blame me for it. You can be a part of the solution or a part of the problem....Sitting here griping about somewhere else..... that's not a solution.... so it must be a part of the problem. ~serapha~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by AFDaw@Apr 18 2004, 11:21 PM There's no rule against smelling coffee :) In your own home, as you wake up in the morning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Snow@Apr 19 2004, 06:36 PM Oh please.Drinking coffee does not lead to criticizing leadership. Certainly you can come up with a better thought than that. And, drinking coffee does not make you a hypocrit (if you are an active Mormon). Stop and think for a moment why that is not necissarily so. I too tired to type it all out. LOL ....sorry you are too tired...but you are going to have to spell it out for me... because....I totally know it does lead to criticizing leaders....it totally drives the Spirit out of those who are drinking it....unless it is for medicinal reasons...And if you are lying to get the TR then you are a hypocrite.... Seriously! Okay, I'll spell it out, but I shouldn't have to.Being an active Mormon and drinking coffee no more makes you a hypocrite than being an active Mormon and not paying a full tithe, or not attending your weekly meetings, or not treating other's kindly, or not repenting daily, or not being completely and unabiguously honest in all your affaris or standing in judgement of others, or being contentious, or thinking about sex (not your spouse) or blah, blah, blah makes you a hypocrite. There is no magic ingredient in coffee that makes you one.Beyond that, a person may be active, yet disagree with the principle of the WoW and so ignores it but doesn't act like they obey it - publically, so they would not be a hypocrite.Or, a person may just not have overcome that particular transgression but is working on it, just like you haven't overcome the sin of spreading false doctrine yet but I know that you are working on it.Your point about drinking caffeine leading to criticism of leaders is without evidence or argument so there is nothing to refute except your opinion. Put a little meat on the bone and I'll address it. You missed my point....OBEDIENCE>>>>>>>>is the key!!!!! It doesn't matter which law you decide to disobey you will become discontent and criticle of leadership....You are totally right...if doesn't matter if you are not paying tithing, or not following the WoW...you will have the same effects of losing the Spirit of peace....you will become contentious.I look at it this way....when we are obedient we receive 'light'.....when we are disobedient we lose that 'light'....without the light which is Christ's Spirit and the Holy Ghost....you become honery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Serapha, I appreciated your post (too long though to quote) I also appreciate how you feel. All except about one thing.... You expect this forum members to act like missionaries. We are not like the CF forum....using everything for conversion....This is more like a school...where we come to learn and discuss and sometimes vent our frustrations to one another. I do not see hate....I see frustrations sometimes.... We all come here to find something.....when we don't find it, sometimes it feels like we have been abused or knocked around or are too rough. But it is because....like marriage....we come here with 'preconceived expectations'. When they are not fulfilled the way we want, then a situation arises and there has to be some 'action' within and without that has to bring us to another level of understanding one another, and working with one another. This comes in all kinds of 'appearances'. It can come in tussles, arguments, acusations, and all from hurt feelings or lack of having our expectations and needs met by other posters. Everyone here on this board, whether they are anti, non-LDS, TBM, or relaxed LDS......come here for something they need or want. We all have communicated pretty good under these circumstances and had relatively few contentions considering the massive differencial base we are working from. It isn't church, It isn't a missionary tool, it is a religious discussion based school..... I don't see absolute hate....I see disappointment, frustration, insightful information, opinions, fun stuff, social stuff, personal sharing stuff,.....hurt feelings, support, understanding....just out right life sharing...here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Serapha must be reading posts that I'm not; or not reading the ones I am. I see little hate here at LDS Talk, besides some verbal sparring between critics of the Church and defensive members. I see no evidence of anyone claiming that all non-members are anti-Mormon, nor have I seen an attitude of such. I see plenty of compassion and friendship, and no "hate the world" atmosphere that was described. It's just like it is with the other forum being discussed. If you don't like it, don't go there. I don't go to CF because of the hateful attitude and what I see as hypocrisy. It works that way for all message boards. If you don't like 'em, don't join 'em....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Outshined@Apr 21 2004, 01:37 PM Serapha must be reading posts that I'm not; or not reading the ones I am. I see little hate here at LDS Talk, besides some verbal sparring between critics of the Church and defensive members. I see no evidence of anyone claiming that all non-members are anti-Mormon, nor have I seen an attitude of such. I see plenty of compassion and friendship, and no "hate the world" atmaosphere that was described.It's just like it is with the other forum being discussed. If you don't like it, don't go there. I don't go to CF because of the hateful attitude and what I see as hypocrisy. It works that way for all message boards. If you don't like 'em, don't join 'em....... Well Put. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by serapha@Apr 20 2004, 11:18 PM Snow, I just ran across this in looking for something else... and this posting needs addressing.Myself, personally.... I was banned from Christianforums because I demanded publicly that the "unorthodox" forum needed the consistent application of rules, that the rules, as established, were not fair to everyone. In particular was "word usage"... and the particular word was "cult"... You can be a part of the solution or a part of the problem....Sitting here griping about somewhere else..... that's not a solution.... so it must be a part of the problem.  ~serapha~ Serapaho (That's the American Indian Arapaho translation of Serpha),Sorry, I forgot that you post on 2 dozen different websites. I just assumed, incorrectly apparently, that you meant christianforums.I'll admit that you are a fairly polite poster and that I impute to you unsavory traits associated with those scalawags and reprobates masquerading as decent Christians, in this particular case, I did so mistakenly.I still think that your essential position, that Mormons aren't Christian is a crock but you are nice enough about it. Sometimes I would prefer that you aren't so nice because the passive-agressive angle annoys me even more, but that's a personal preference.So, like I said, sorry. But there is one thing that you do here that I want to call you on. You exaggerate to the almost extent of dishonesty. For example:"I have to agree, that "usually" the members of the CoJCoLDS's does not express hatred toward a denomination. "you guys" don't have any hate left when you are done bashing the "anti-mormons"... which, I have learned, is anyone outside mormonism."That's so exaggerated that it passes beyond hyperbole and enters the deliberately falacious realm. Some, not all or even most but some, Mormons are hyper-sensitive and mistake fair criticism with anti-Mormonism, not fully appreciating just how ugly true anti-ness is. But no Mormon that I have ever spoken with on the topic thinks that not being Mormon constitutes "antiMormonism." No one, not a single one.Beyond that, it doesn't really work to call our displeasure with antiMormons "bashing." That would be like calling the French Underground "Nazi-bashers" for denouncing Hitler. That is, they attack us, we attack the attacker. Not the same thing at all. Not by a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Sitting here griping about somewhere else..... that's not a solution.... so it must be a part of the problem. ~serapha~ I agree completely so why doesnt everyone stop.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by Rodney+Apr 21 2004, 09:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Apr 21 2004, 09:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--AFDaw@Apr 18 2004, 11:21 PM There's no rule against smelling coffee :) In your own home, as you wake up in the morning? No Rodney, anywhere, anytime, any home. There is NO rule against smelling coffee :) Which is why I said originally "There's no rule against smelling coffee :)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by AFDaw+Apr 22 2004, 08:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Apr 22 2004, 08:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Rodney@Apr 21 2004, 09:51 AM <!--QuoteBegin--AFDaw@Apr 18 2004, 11:21 PM There's no rule against smelling coffee :) In your own home, as you wake up in the morning? No Rodney, anywhere, anytime, any home. There is NO rule against smelling coffee :) Which is why I said originally "There's no rule against smelling coffee :)" <span style=\'color:red\'>ROFLOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by AFDaw@Apr 22 2004, 09:08 AM No Rodney, anywhere, anytime, any home. There is NO rule against smelling coffee :) Which is why I said originally "There's no rule against smelling coffee :)" Ha ha ha ha ha, you veddy funny poisen. Me laugh veddy hard at, er with you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Rodney+Apr 22 2004, 02:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Apr 22 2004, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--AFDaw@Apr 22 2004, 09:08 AM No Rodney, anywhere, anytime, any home. There is NO rule against smelling coffee :) Which is why I said originally "There's no rule against smelling coffee :)" Ha ha ha ha ha, you veddy funny poisen. Me laugh veddy hard at, er with you... Laugh at me all you want. No sweat off my back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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