“New” name and church identity

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:45 PM, Fether said:

Ok, I know this is like the 4th thread, but Inhave a question that I feel justifies separating this from the others.

Today I witnessed my first inconvenience in using the full name of our church. My wife and I made friends with our neighbors who aren’t members of the church I if Jesus Christ. So my wife briefly mentioned we were members of the Mormon church when they asked about our missionary plaqs. After they left I swiftly berated her for her sinful ways and utter acts of apostasy. But then I got to thinking. 

If she said we were members of the church of Jesus Christ, the desired short hand name, there would be absolutely no connection in our friends minds between what they know of the “Mormons” and us. Any acts of kindness we do or any example we show to them they would not associate with the “Mormons”; but with our church (which they wouldn’t know until they made that cognitive connection).

It is almost as if we are creating a whole new identity and any work done by the “Mormon” church has been left behind. When we speak to people and use the short hand names (because let’s face it, the full name is rather long and not practical for normal conversation), people unaware of the names already may just think we are from a typical Christian denomination. Where as if I say “we are Mormons!” BOOM... immediate questions pop into their mind that lead to awesome missionary opportunities. No one has questions for the Presbyterian neighbor, no one comes across a Baptist and asks “do you really believe xyz???”. But you even mention “Mormon” and everyone has something to say.

 if someone feels the spirit in our homes and seeks out our church, they won’t be coming to the LDS church or the Mormon church, but will be coming into the true church of God upon the earth (the Kodge Kold)... Which I guess is what is desired... but if the name doesn’t matter but the true church and the doctrine is what matters, why worry about the new standard on referring to the church in the first place?

Did any of that make sense? Mostly it seems like a giant PR disaster.

I fully intend on obeying it completely, but just curious as to the purpose.

Thoughts?

You wrote this some days ago, but the part I bolded concerned me.  I hope you were merely jesting when you wrote that.  It is this that is actually the most disconcerting for me.  I would hope you didn't do that!?  I hope it was just a joke when you said that!

Previously, the Saints were referred to as just that.  When we read about the church prior to the 1940s, we read about the Saints.  They did not call themselves Mormons, that was what others may refer them as, but the church members were called Saints.  Hence, the name of the church, because we are in the Latter-days. 

If someone asked, I would probably say that we are what many call Mormons as that is easy for them to understand.  However, I could also clarify that the church itself would refer to us as Saints or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  If that brought more questions (and I expect it may in some instances) we can clarify that it is because we worship Jesus Christ and thus our church is called after his name.  He is the center of our religion and our belief.

You may be surprised at how many already know the full name of our church and relate that is the same as them calling us Mormons to begin with. 

I feel using the name of the church as identifying who we are is IMPORTANT.  I feel this is because too often enemies of the church try to mock us and insinuate that we are NOT Christians.  They come up with many excuses and many reasons, but the core of our religion is stated in the actual NAME of our church.  We are not the First Baptist church of such, or Baptist at all.  We are not the Catholic Church, we are not the Methodist Church, We are not the Presbyterian Church, and we are NOT the Mormon church.  We are the Church of Jesus Christ.  We use of Latter-day Saints as the definer as we are not the Saints of the Original Church from the Lord, nor are we of the Church from the time of Moses or Abraham.  We are of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-days.  We are also Saints and have been called as such in the past.  Hence we are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

However, it is NOT of such a big deal that one should berate or judge others if they refer to themselves as Mormons and I'm sure many of us will STILL call ourselves Mormons from time to time.  I definitely do NOT see it as apostasy, but I do see that the Prophet's counsel in this matter is one that has some important reasons for being given.  It is one that has been touched upon from time to time and given in the same manner for the past 50 - 60 years.

[Traveler]

I believe there are differences between guidelines and divine law.  For example - wearing a white shirt (for men) to church is a guideline and not a divine law.  Sometimes Latter-day Saints get guidelines and divine laws mixed up.  I recall on my mission that some missionaries thought that the mission rules were divine laws.  I recall a situation while serving in North Bend Oregon.  There was a mission rule for missionaries to call (check in) with mission leaders according to a schedule.  My companion and myself were headed home to call in on the specified night.  Our little apt was a small house about a mile done a secluded dirt road on an ocean slew.   As we approached the dirt road turn off both my companion and I were strongly impressed to not go home - instead we drove up the cost a ways and slept that night on the beach.  The next morning when we got back to our place - the mission president called (he had called several times) wanting to know where we were and why we did not report in.  We explained what happened - he agreed that we had done the right thing.  It was a while later that a set of missionaries were shot at while driving their car (bullet hole proof) - but we never had confirmation it was connected - I will likely not learn why until I arrive in the spirit world.

 

The Traveler

[Fether]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

You wrote this some days ago, but the part I bolded concerned me.  I hope you were merely jesting when you wrote that.  It is this that is actually the most disconcerting for me.  I would hope you didn't do that!?  I hope it was just a joke when you said that!

Previously, the Saints were referred to as just that.  When we read about the church prior to the 1940s, we read about the Saints.  They did not call themselves Mormons, that was what others may refer them as, but the church members were called Saints.  Hence, the name of the church, because we are in the Latter-days. 

If someone asked, I would probably say that we are what many call Mormons as that is easy for them to understand.  However, I could also clarify that the church itself would refer to us as Saints or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  If that brought more questions (and I expect it may in some instances) we can clarify that it is because we worship Jesus Christ and thus our church is called after his name.  He is the center of our religion and our belief.

You may be surprised at how many already know the full name of our church and relate that is the same as them calling us Mormons to begin with. 

I feel using the name of the church as identifying who we are is IMPORTANT.  I feel this is because too often enemies of the church try to mock us and insinuate that we are NOT Christians.  They come up with many excuses and many reasons, but the core of our religion is stated in the actual NAME of our church.  We are not the First Baptist church of such, or Baptist at all.  We are not the Catholic Church, we are not the Methodist Church, We are not the Presbyterian Church, and we are NOT the Mormon church.  We are the Church of Jesus Christ.  We use of Latter-day Saints as the definer as we are not the Saints of the Original Church from the Lord, nor are we of the Church from the time of Moses or Abraham.  We are of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-days.  We are also Saints and have been called as such in the past.  Hence we are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

However, it is NOT of such a big deal that one should berate or judge others if they refer to themselves as Mormons and I'm sure many of us will STILL call ourselves Mormons from time to time.  I definitely do NOT see it as apostasy, but I do see that the Prophet's counsel in this matter is one that has some important reasons for being given.  It is one that has been touched upon from time to time and given in the same manner for the past 50 - 60 years.

It was very much a joke

[john4truth]

On 8/19/2018 at 11:34 PM, NightSG said:

It's easier here; "spot the Pentecostals" is a downright boring game when they stand out so much in the Texas summer.

In my part of Texas it's UPC. Texas is a big Country.

[caspianrex]

Speaking as an outsider, who tries to be as respectful of Church members as I can, it is a tricky situation. For those of us who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it begins to get very difficult to figure out exactly what we're supposed to type on, say, a forum like this one. I have often told people (Saints and non-Saints alike) about the many positive experiences I have had with "Mormons." I hate to feel that I am insulting anyone, when I am trying to be positive!

Meanwhile, I am assuming sites such as MormonHub, and mormon.org will not be changing their names any time soon. Or will they?  

Well, if anyone has any advice on what they would like to be called by me on this forum, I'm open to suggestions...

[Fether]

2 minutes ago, caspianrex said:

Speaking as an outsider, who tries to be as respectful of Church members as I can, it is a tricky situation. For those of us who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it begins to get very difficult to figure out exactly what we're supposed to type on, say, a forum like this one. I have often told people (Saints and non-Saints alike) about the many positive experiences I have had with "Mormons." I hate to feel that I am insulting anyone, when I am trying to be positive!

Meanwhile, I am assuming sites such as MormonHub, and mormon.org will not be changing their names any time soon. Or will they?  

Well, if anyone has any advice on what they would like to be called by me on this forum, I'm open to suggestions...

Mormon hub may not as it isn’t directly affiliated with the church. But we expect MormonChannel to change in the coming months as it is owned by the church

Edited September 8, 2018 by Fether

[caspianrex]

I imagine they'll keep the URL of mormon.org the same, so that people seeking information on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can still get where they're going.

Incidentally, I just watched the Welcome video on the home page of mormon.org, and noticed the narrator mentions "Mormon chapels." So I suspect the process may take a bit of time to take effect.

[NightSG]

On 8/30/2018 at 11:05 AM, Traveler said:

It was a while later that a set of missionaries were shot at while driving their car (bullet hole proof) - but we never had confirmation it was connected - I will likely not learn why until I arrive in the spirit world.

The JWs were waiting for you with a particularly moving sermon. 

[NeuroTypical]

Good to hear the prophet talk about this.

This trumps the excellent and valid arguments of search engine optimization and name recognition.  It is not rebranding - it's re-committing to follow pretty clear and unambiguous revelation.

"Responsible media will be sympathetic"

First reference - long name.  After that, The Church.  The Church of Jesus Christ.  The Restored Church of Jesus Christ.   Every other situation seems to be, acknowledge the Savior in some way in our speech.  

[Fether]

On 9/8/2018 at 9:27 AM, caspianrex said:

I imagine they'll keep the URL of mormon.org the same, so that people seeking information on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can still get where they're going.

Incidentally, I just watched the Welcome video on the home page of mormon.org, and noticed the narrator mentions "Mormon chapels." So I suspect the process may take a bit of time to take effect.

It is definitely deeply engrained.

I think of a story told in general conference (I think??) years ago about a group of boys who found an old abandoned truck at the top of a hill. They decided to all get in and push it down the hill for an exciting ride. 1 boy decided he would not do it so he left.

As they pushed the truck down the hill, one got out as soon as it started rolling and slid a few feet leaving a scrap on his knee.

1 more jumped once it started moving too fast for his liking, he landed and broke his leg.

another jumped out as he began to be scared for his life, at this point the truck was moving very quickly and he broke his ribs and suffered a severe concussion on the landing.

The 5th jumped soon after and ended up breaking his back, leaving him paralyzed from the waste down.

The last boy stayed in it till the end where he slammed into a boulder and instantly died.

 

We have been using the Mormon name for a very long time and because of that there will be consequences and major difficulties in this name correction. But better we change now than later cause it will only get more and more difficult.

[Guest Scott]

Is anyone else still struggling with this?   

Since we just moved and since the community we moved to is fairly religious and has a fair amount of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints members (about 1/5 of religious people in town are CoJCoLDS-is that the abbreviation we are supposed to use now?); we have been getting a lot of questions about what church we belong to.

Yesterday, a contractor came to our house and saw our decoration (made of beads) of the Salt Lake Temple and said (in a friendly and curious tone) "Oh, so your Mormon".  I said (also in a friendly tone), yes, but we're not supposed to call ourselves Mormons anymore (I intended to expound on this more, but didn't get the chance).  Puzzled and looking a little shocked he replied with "wasn't your church the one that just had the big "I'm a Mormon campaign"?  I literally didn't know what to say other than (in a quiet tone "I guess so").  Then the topic of the conversation then changed to something completely different.

I feel that making the correction to the contractor completely ruined the moment.  He asked a friendly and curious question about our religion which could have been used as an opportunity to let him know more about our church.  Instead I corrected him and was caught completely off guard with his question about our Church just having the big I'm a Mormon campaign (and he's right; that was only a few years ago and is fresh in people's minds).  How would you answer this question?   I was caught completely off guard and didn't even think about that.

Is anyone else at least struggling a little with this?  Trying to correct someone who is curious about our church seems counter productive.   What's a better way to do this?  

Edited January 4, 2019 by Scott

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Scott said:

Yesterday, a contractor came to our house and saw our decoration (made of beads) of the Salt Lake Temple and said (in a friendly and curious tone) "Oh, so your Mormon".  I said (also in a friendly tone), yes, but we're not supposed to call ourselves Mormons anymore (I intended to expound on this more).  Puzzled and a little shocked he replied with "wasn't your church the one that just had the big "I'm a Mormon campaign"?  I literally didn't know what to say other than (in a quiet tone "I guess so").  Then the topic of the conversation changed to something completely different.

Sounds like a great opportunity to testify of Christ.

5 minutes ago, Scott said:

CoJCoLDS-is that the abbreviation we are supposed to use now?

No.

And please stop doing this everybody!

• When a shortened reference is needed, the terms "the Church" or the "Church of Jesus Christ" are encouraged. The "restored Church of Jesus Christ" is also accurate and encouraged.

[The Folk Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Scott said:

but we're not supposed to call ourselves Mormons anymore

On a side note: I'd probably turn this from negative to positive in the phrasing. A la:

"...but we prefer to be called by our full name, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints"

or something.

[Guest Scott]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Sounds like a great opportunity to testify of Christ.

Agreed, but that's easier said than done once the moment or train of thought is lost.  

[NeuroTypical]

12 minutes ago, Scott said:

Is anyone else at least struggling a little with this?  

yes.  It's still awkward and weird.  But I'm trying hard, and eventually will have the groove down.

"Oh, so you're Mormon?"
"We go by the plain old 'Church of Jesus Christ' now, but yes."

[Guest Scott]

31 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

On a side note: I'd probably turn this from negative to positive in the phrasing. A la:

"...but we prefer to be called by our full name, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints"

or something.

Yes, that would be a good response. Easy if you are prepared rather than caught off guard.

How would you have responded to the question "wasn't your church the one that just had the big "I'm a Mormon campaign?""   We just did have one of the world's largest advertising campaigns telling people that we are Mormons.  

I guess it's easier to do when you have time to think about it is advance, but not so easy if you are caught off guard.  
 

Undoubtedly, things like this are confusing to non-members and we need to be ready for them.  

Edited January 4, 2019 by Scott

[The Folk Prophet]

31 minutes ago, Scott said:

Yes, that would be a good response. Easy if you are prepared rather than caught off guard.

How would you have responded to the question "wasn't your church the one that just had the big "I'm a Mormon campaign?""   We just did have one of the world's largest advertising campaigns telling people that we are Mormons.  

I guess it's easier to do when you have time to think about it is advance, but not so easy if you are caught off guard.  
 

Undoubtedly, things like this are confusing to non-members and we need to be ready for them.  

I think going with Pres Nelson's reasons for the why are a good response. That's how I'd prepare. Read his talk on the matter and commit a few ideas to memory. 

[MrShorty]

29 minutes ago, Scott said:

How would you have responded to the question "wasn't your church the one that just had the big "I'm a Mormon campaign?""   We just did have one of the world's largest advertising campaigns telling people that we are Mormons.  

It's probably not in keeping with the spirit of Pres. Nelson's declaration, but I might respond with something like "We have a long and complex history with the "Mormon" nickname. The "I'm a Mormon" campaign was during a phase when were less urgent about distancing ourselves from the nickname. Now we are in a phase of more urgently trying to distance ourselves from the nickname."

[Guest Scott]

All those are good answers to the question itself, especially in a technical matter, but it still seems they might be distracting to someone who asks a simple, friendly, or curious question about our Church.   

When in conversation, it's easy to quote President Nelson or to correct someone as to the true name of the Church, but it is distracting during casual and informal conversations.  That's the challenging part.  

Edited January 4, 2019 by Scott

[Anddenex]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

All those are good answers to the question itself, especially in a technical matter, but it still seems they might be distracting to someone who asks a simple, friendly, or curious question about our Church.   

When in conversation, it's easy to quote President Nelson or to correct someone as to the true name of the Church, but it is distracting during casual and informal conversations.  That's the challenging part.  

Personally, I am not struggling with the change. In this type of scenario I would simply say "Yes." But I would not add the words "I am Mormon." If they wanted to ask further questions, then I would answer those.

With regards to the Mormon campaign, I don't find it a big deal. People did not realize the Mormons were The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you asked people, my experience, the majority saw them as two separate religions.

The campaign allowed people to see that the Mormons are everyday people (unless of course anti, anti's didn't really care), and that Mormon was the nickname given to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If I am remembering correctly in these campaigns that was part of the discourse.

Since then, we are now making sure we are called by our True name. I am not familiar with any other church being titled by a nickname except by antis. We as members really have no excuse to use the term Mormon when introducing ourselves. If a sincere person is asking if I am Mormon (and that is the only question), I will say "Yes." At that time, if I feel the conversation allows for further explanation then I will do so. If someone were to ask, what church do you belong to, well that is a different question and I hope no one ever answers, "Mormon." Therein lies the fault.

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Personally, I am not struggling with the change. In this type of scenario I would simply say "Yes." But I would not add the words "I am Mormon." If they wanted to ask further questions, then I would answer those.

With regards to the Mormon campaign, I don't find it a big deal. People did not realize the Mormons were The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you asked people, my experience, the majority saw them as two separate religions.

The campaign allowed people to see that the Mormons are everyday people (unless of course anti, anti's didn't really care), and that Mormon was the nickname given to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If I am remembering correctly in these campaigns that was part of the discourse.

Since then, we are now making sure we are called by our True name. I am not familiar with any other church being titled by a nickname except by antis. We as members really have no excuse to use the term Mormon when introducing ourselves. If a sincere person is asking if I am Mormon (and that is the only question), I will say "Yes." At that time, if I feel the conversation allows for further explanation then I will do so. If someone were to ask, what church do you belong to, well that is a different question and I hope no one ever answers, "Mormon." Therein lies the fault.

I think the term "Mormon" is so engrained in our culture that non members will use it for decades. Not just antis either. 

[Anddenex]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I think the term "Mormon" is so engrained in our culture that non members will use it for decades. Not just antis either. 

I agree, which is why it is important that we as church members don't refer to us as Mormon (or it will continue even longer). My comment with antis, is that antis simply don't care what is what, they will just continue to use "Mormon" because they don't care.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Anddenex said:

I agree, which is why it is important that we as church members don't refer to us as Mormon (or it will continue even longer). My comment with antis, is that antis simply don't care what is what, they will just continue to use "Mormon" because they don't care.

Almost all my close friends are not members, with one or two exceptions. 99% of them either don't know or don't care about the name change. Which in fairness makes sense. After all all how much do you care about the name of a religion you don't belong to?  You'll try to be polite, but in the long run if you use the wrong name and someone flips out you (generic, not you meaning @Anddenex) would probably tease them about being a snowflake. 

[Anddenex]

11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Almost all my close friends are not members, with one or two exceptions. 99% of them either don't know or don't care about the name change. Which in fairness makes sense. After all all how much do you care about the name of a religion you don't belong to?  You'll try to be polite, but in the long run if you use the wrong name and someone flips out you (generic, not you meaning @Anddenex) would probably tease them about being a snowflake. 

There are four categories of people that I see in this:

1) Members

2) Antis

3) Nonmembers aware

4) Nonmembers unaware

Members shouldn't be using the term Mormon when introducing themselves. Antis don't care, they will use whatever they want to use and will try to make something stick (i.e. cult). Nonmembers who are aware, not anti, I find people are actually have more respect to use the appropriate name. Nonmembers unaware aren't going to care one way or the other, but they are still influenced (as we all are) by what they hear. If nonmember and member friend is using "Mormon" all the time, you can bet they will use the word Mormon. If nonmember friend with member friend and member friend is using The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or The Church, the restored Church of Jesus Christ, you can be sure that nonmember friend will more likely use the full name, rather than nickname.

Me, personally though, I will use the correct term given by their churches name, even if I don't belong to their church. In saying this though, I have three good friends (they are like my brothers - nonmembers - I call their mom Mom and she refers to me as son) who will no matter what joke with me. I know though they are jesting and if in a more serious discussion they would refer to the name properly.

One brother in particular visited me and as I was walking to meet him at the hotel he was communicating with one of the hostess. It was funny because as I walked up, he changed the conversation to "You know those Mormons who don't have fun!" (He did this because I was near) The funny thing though, the hostess was like, "Ya, these Mormons, there is nothing to do at night, don't know how to have fun." Then he looked at me, smiled and laughed, and then gave me a big hug. The hostess then looked at me, with a sheepish blushed face, "Wait, you're Mormon." I smiled. "Yes, that is why he just said what he said." Next time though I will punch my brother in the face - BOOM!

Just kidding about punching in the face, he is good looking guy, so I will punch him in the gut.

[Guest Scott]

1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

I am not familiar with any other church being titled by a nickname except by antis.

The Quakers come to mind as the name of their Church is the Religious Society of Friends.  Eventually they adopted the name Quaker since that was the nickname that outsiders knew them by.