No really, vaccines good things, anti-vac is growing more and more deadly.

[aruth5000]

My son can't have one vaccine because of medical reasons so he literally relies on everyone around him being vaccinated. 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, aruth5000 said:

My son can't have one vaccine because of medical reasons so he literally relies on everyone around him being vaccinated. 

Sorry to hear that. Every single anti-vaxxer by choice owes you and your son an apology. 

[Guest]

On 8/24/2018 at 12:12 PM, NeuroTypical said:

I thought you said you understood herd immunity...

(Oh, and full disclosure - finding out my good buddy Carb is reserved about vaccines, is a sore blow to me.  It is only slightly less than the near killing blow I received upon learning that the person I chose to be my wife didn't understand about refrigerating ketchup.)

Yes, I do.  I don't see how that applies.  Because other people around me have immunity, I'm less likely to get it myself.  But if the individual immunity doesn't exist, then the herd immunity doesn't exist either.

And again, I've state my position at least twice and people still refuse to understand my position.  It's only one side or the other, pass or fail with any of you on this issue.  Really?

I know that individual immunity does exist. And I do believe that the concept of vaccines is an accurate one.  The only reason I'm "reserved" as you put it is that I don't really see the point of some vaccines.  And I know from personal experience that there is always some risk in any vaccine.  So, I weigh the chances.  We could go into that discussion.  But not until you recognize what I have admitted already.  Instead you and others are still making fun of me for a position I never held.

[Guest MormonGator]

13 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Instead you and others are still making fun of me for a position I never held.

No one is making fun of you @Carborendum. At least I'm not. I don't think anyone else is either. 

Speaking for myself only-I know the damage that refusing to vaccinate can do to a child. It's very serious, lives are at stake here. Innocent ones too.

If my posts have been caustic or insulting, I apologize.

Edited August 27, 2018 by MormonGator

[SpiritDragon]

23 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, I do.  I don't see how that applies.  Because other people around me have immunity, I'm less likely to get it myself.  But if the individual immunity doesn't exist, then the herd immunity doesn't exist either.

And again, I've state my position at least twice and people still refuse to understand my position.  It's only one side or the other, pass or fail with any of you on this issue.  Really?

I know that individual immunity does exist. And I do believe that the concept of vaccines is an accurate one.  The only reason I'm "reserved" as you put it is that I don't really see the point of some vaccines.  And I know from personal experience that there is always some risk in any vaccine.  So, I weigh the chances.  We could go into that discussion.  But not until you recognize what I have admitted already.  Instead you and others are still making fun of me for a position I never held.

That is unfortunately too often the case. The moment someone brings up legitimate concerns about vaccine safety, efficacy, or necessity as the case may be they are lumped into the category of antivaxxers. When really who wouldn't want safer more effective vaccines. If no body stands up to the status quo to help push change and no one is held accountable for any collateral damage from vaccines, there will be no progress on the issue. Vilifying everyone who has a different position serves no useful purpose and certainly doesn't win anyone over to a different point of view. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by SpiritDragon

[anatess2]

On 8/24/2018 at 1:20 PM, Vort said:

If vaccination worked only by herd immunity, it would never have been discovered. It must be the case that herd immunity contributes only a fraction of the benefit of vaccination, the rest being an individual benefit to those vaccinated. Perhaps that fraction is as large as 20% or even 30%, or perhaps it's very small, 5% or less. But if the argument is that an individual or collection of individuals refusing vaccination nullifies the advantages of vaccination, that's just not a tenable hypothesis.

I go back to the case of malaria in the Philippines - malaria is not contagious person to person.  So it doesn't require herd immunity.  Rather, malaria is transmitted by a specific kind of mosquito.  Now, there's no vax for malaria and you can't immunize mosquitoes and so far we haven't figured out a way to make that mosquito extinct.  So, you take some meds that will make your blood/liver hostile to malaria for a short period of time.  So, if you're a tourist, you'd take the meds, then go to the Philippines where malaria is prevalent to tour, then you go back to your malaria free homeland. 

Because malaria has not been eradicated to extinction levels, it found a way to morph into something that survives the drug.  And so we have to come up with different strains of malaria drug once the old one becomes ineffective.

So, when you don't get herd immunity, the disease cannot be eradicated/brought to extinction levels in the population.  So, not only does this put those who cannot get vax'd at high risk, it also risks the vax becoming completely ineffective.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

https://www.wfla.com/1404133681

Oh wow, look at this. 

[JohnsonJones]

I have a son that is slightly autistic.  He was conceived shortly after I had received the Smallpox vaccine and other vaccinations (as I was going overseas for the first time into various areas and had a whole range of shots at that time).  It has made me feel that maybe vaccinations (to either parents or children) DO have something to do with autism, but I don't know

I have had all my kids vaccinated.

However, HPV is a new vaccination.  From what I understand it protects against three strains of HPV these days.  These are mainly STD strains.  There are dozens of HPV strains, many which are spread by skin to skin contact.  However, the vaccine does not protect against these for the most part and against most HPV is actually absolutely useless.  However, it does work against the STD form and it is this form which causes cervical cancer.

It is a relatively new vaccine so we haven't seen the results of what will happen in twenty years.  I don't know.  I leave it up to each of my kids to decide if my grandkids will receive that vaccine or not. 

As a note, these strains it protects against are not just causing cervical cancer in women but also protect against cancer in men as well.

It would be useful if the vaccine was more  effective against many of the various types of HPV out there including most of those which are spread by more causal contact than intimacy.

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 12:12 PM, anatess2 said:

I go back to the case of malaria in the Philippines - malaria is not contagious person to person.  So it doesn't require herd immunity.  Rather, malaria is transmitted by a specific kind of mosquito.  Now, there's no vax for malaria and you can't immunize mosquitoes and so far we haven't figured out a way to make that mosquito extinct.  So, you take some meds that will make your blood/liver hostile to malaria for a short period of time.  So, if you're a tourist, you'd take the meds, then go to the Philippines where malaria is prevalent to tour, then you go back to your malaria free homeland. 

Because malaria has not been eradicated to extinction levels, it found a way to morph into something that survives the drug.  And so we have to come up with different strains of malaria drug once the old one becomes ineffective.

So, when you don't get herd immunity, the disease cannot be eradicated/brought to extinction levels in the population.  So, not only does this put those who cannot get vax'd at high risk, it also risks the vax becoming completely ineffective.

 

Awesome.  I didn't understand WHY I had to take the pills or what they did, but now that you've explained this, it makes it much more clear why I have to take those pills when abroad in certain places when I visit..

[Guest]

On 8/23/2018 at 10:09 AM, Vort said:

I thought Return of the Archons was a Star Trek episode.

On 8/24/2018 at 11:18 AM, Carborendum said:

It was.

The idea behind the episode was essentially a commentary about war.  A war was raging for hundreds of years without any hope of letting up.  The reasons (Kirk discovered) was essentially the same philosophy behind what you said about chastity and the HPV vaccine.  I had once said the same thing about handing out free condoms to high school students.

Oops.  I don't know why I was thinking about this.  But I was thinking of the wrong episode.  While Return of the Archons was a good episode, the one I was thinking of was

A Taste of Armageddon.

[Vort]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Oops.  I don't know why I was thinking about this.  But I was thinking of the wrong episode.  While Return of the Archons was a good episode, the one I was thinking of was

A Taste of Armageddon.

💡
🤔

Ah. Now I understand.

[Anddenex]

I found this article intriguing from a pro-vaxxer and a nurse and particularly how she has been treated by pro-vaxxers:

https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/pro-vaccine-nurse-of-22-years-defends-her-family-after-mumps-outbreak-among-her-fully-vaccinated-family-as-she-was-wrongly-accused-of-not-vaccinating/?fbclid=IwAR0mytecsRWweqnIlaV9DiKAhaENOBQf4suLFdemw1xXXKmsyd2qC6orW90

 

[NeuroTypical]

Treating people badly out of ignorance isn't a good thing.  There's a role for social shaming (I know opinions differ), but it should be directed at people who self-select the spotlight by claiming vaccines cause autism, or ranting about how it's all a conspiracy by big pharma, or spread dangerous and false information based on scientific ignorance or russian twitter warfare.

[Anddenex]

This story is why I have a hard time with Pro-Vaxxers and misinformation given by doctors and pro-vaxxers. All my children are vaxxed except one who was vaxxed (as a baby) but because he is Celiac and the vaccines didn't take and won't take until we get his levels below a certain number.  For those who don't know, if your child is already Celiac vaccines a lot of the time (according to our specialist) won't take (my son is one of those statistics). So I have a vaccinated boy who is currently unvaccinated but I don't fear, nor am I bothered by anti-vaxxers. There appears to be a lot of misinformation from both sides of the argument and maybe if there was more intellectual honesty and reporting a lot of things could be resolved more quickly. This is a story of my friend on Facebook:

Quote

A prompting should never be ignored. No matter what that prompting is... Sometimes you may think "That's an odd prompting. It doesn't make sense." Pray get confirmation and then follow the prompting.

I have many stories on this subject but one especially burns in my mind daily!

I was pregnant with my 3rd child at the time. And I got an odd prompting. "Don't vaccinate your child." It was repeated so often that I finally told my pediatrician. He tried the usual persuasion and then ultimatum tactic... "Vaccines are safe. And you can wait till she is 6mo if you like but after that you can't be seen at my clinic if you don't vaccinate." I relented. "He must be right. He is a doctor. I vaccinated my other 2."

But the prompting got stronger and stronger. She was born. Perfect healthy and happy.

I waited till she was 6mo. The night before her 6 month well check she spiked a high fever. I took her in for the scheduled appointment. Doctor said that she shouldn't be vaccinated with that high of a fever. No other symptoms. Not even an ear infection. Come back next month. Again at 7 months same thing. And again at 8 months. At 9 month she spiked a lower grade fever and again we went in... No other symptoms. Doctor said "We can't delay anymore. She must be vaccinated." And went to get the nurse to give the vaccines.
I felt a prompting loud as if I was being shouted at... "Run! Pick Up Your Baby and RUN!!!" Again... I didn't listen. Instead I tried to calm myself "I am doing what I am supposed to do. Doctors know better than I do."

She screamed. And screamed. The doctor said "There is a "rare" complication that can happen. But if she stops screaming she'll be fine."
I tried to nurse her. She was slightly comforted while nursing. As soon as I moved her she would scream. But it was brushed off by both myself and the doctor as nothing... Even though he acknowledged the possibility of a vaccine reactions. She screamed all the way home and for the next 6 hours. A high pitched pain cry I will never forget. She suffered encephalitis from the vaccines.

The next morning she couldn't focus on anything. She wouldn't speak. She wouldn't smile. She was the sweetest baby until the vaccines. After her "common known reaction". She had been crawling and had started to walk... Until the vaccine took it all away.

She can't be vaccinated again because it was an allergic reaction to the pertussis part of the DTaP. If vaccinated again she could die. (As per another doctor we saw 5yrs later.) Despite the reaction multiple doctors said it would be better to vaccinate her. (Why so my child would be dead!?!)

Even after all this I wasn't against vaccines. I was still going to vaccinate my other kids. Until I received the same promptings for the next. And then the next was born with a Hemangioma that is a sign of a gene mutation. A gene mutation known for causing vaccine reactions.

I am glad I listened for my younger one's sake. But everyday I live with 3rd child's brain damage. Everyday my heart hurts for her struggles. Everyday I wish I had listened to the still small steady voice that said "Don't Vaccinate!"

When I see propaganda promoting vaccines and claiming they don't cause problems I am hurt... Deeply Hurt! The bullying that happens to good people that I know personally and have endured myself because the vaccines aren't safe. The "science is settled" is a lie. The scientific data shows that.

The bold is a pretty decent threat by a doctor who has taken upon him a particular oath, assuming she is quoting him correctly. I will believe her but give the doctor a benefit of the doubt. If true, glad he was never any of my children's doctors. But she could have found a more mature and less arrogant doctor who would help, sadly she kept going back to this doctor.

But hey, vaccines are totally safe! At least that is what I keep reading from forums, posts, and articles that talk about vaccines. My favorite part is when a story of truth is shared, and then to read pro-vaxxers try to say, "This type of article/post shouldn't be posted, because it can lead to false understandings and bolster anti-vaxxers." Well, ya, truth and personal experience usually has that affect. Who then is trying to hush knowledge/experience?

This is why I don't fear anti-vaxxers and their personal choice (even though I have a son who could be affected). I accept it without abashing their choice, because I do not know what they have experienced or what they have knowledge of, or what prompting God gives them. But apparently some doctors love their position more than their patients. Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with this type of arrogant doctor, assuming this is an accurate account of the doctor and patient dialogue.

[anatess2]

On 5/21/2019 at 4:26 PM, Anddenex said:

But apparently some doctors love their position more than their patients. Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with this type of arrogant doctor, assuming this is an accurate account of the doctor and patient dialogue.

I don't know if I can put this on the doctor.  Listen... my brother is a doctor.  He went through 12 years of schooling and loads of money to be able to say with confidence his recommendations.  Now, luckily, my brother is also a very faithful person.  So if you tell him, "The spirit told me I shouldn't vaccinate." he will take it into consideration.  But then, my brother prays about things too.  So, you got a doctor who is not particularly religious.  You tell him - he shouldn't vaccinate a kid against what he has known for a fact is safe for 95%? of the kids because... the spirit prompted you.  "The spirit" versus 12 years of schooling and loads of money for him to be confident about his recommendations.  I wouldn't even consider that he "loves his position more than his patients".  What he knows is - vaccination is what is good for his patients.

My pediatrician is a holistic pediatrician.  She's pretty open to anti-vaxxers and would simply let you sign an opt out form if you refuse to get your kid vaccinated so she doesn't get sued.  But she had no problem telling me with confidence - you need to vaccinate your kid.

[Anddenex]

17 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I don't know if I can put this on the doctor.  Listen... my brother is a doctor.  He went through 12 years of schooling and loads of money to be able to say with confidence his recommendations.  Now, luckily, my brother is also a very faithful person.  So if you tell him, "The spirit told me I shouldn't vaccinate." he will take it into consideration.  But then, my brother prays about things too.  So, you got a doctor who is not particularly religious.  You tell him - he shouldn't vaccinate a kid against what he has known for a fact is safe for 95%? of the kids because... the spirit prompted you.  "The spirit" versus 12 years of schooling and loads of money for him to be confident about his recommendations.  I wouldn't even consider that he "loves his position more than his patients".  What he knows is - vaccination is what is good for his patients.

My pediatrician is a holistic pediatrician.  She's pretty open to anti-vaxxers and would simply let you sign an opt out form if you refuse to get your kid vaccinated so she doesn't get sued.  But she had no problem telling me with confidence - you need to vaccinate your kid.

I understand what you are saying; however, I solely put this on this doctor. The amount of money we spend and time shouldn't be any excuse for placing position (doctor) over patient. Let's review from the story two statements:

1) Vaccines are safe.

2) The doctor said "There is a "rare" complication that can happen. But if she stops screaming she'll be fine."

First, if the doctor had more intellectual and professional integrity the easy statement would be something to this nature, "Vaccines are safe for the majority of people and you should vaccinate your child; however, we do know there are rare complications and we should make sure your daughter is not one of those rare complications. We won't move forward until you are comfortable with this decision." This mother wouldn't have a brain damaged child, due to vaccines, if he cared more about his patient rather than his position (or as you say, his time and money).

Second, it doesn't matter if the doctor is religious or non-religious. Taking care of your patient should first priority. This kinda reminds me of Patch Adams and the dialogue with his roommate. I would consider, and am very glad I have had doctor's who listen to their patients rather than disregarding their patients solely because -- "Hey, I am educated with time and money -- I'm right!" In this situation though we aren't talking about telling a doctor not to vaccinate a kid, we are talking about a mother inquiring about their own kid. Sure, no one should tell a doctor not to vaccinate a kid, but they do have every right to ask and inquire and be frankly and honestly talked to.

 

[carlimac]

On 5/21/2019 at 4:26 PM, Anddenex said:

This story is why I have a hard time with Pro-Vaxxers and misinformation given by doctors and pro-vaxxers. All my children are vaxxed except one who was vaxxed (as a baby) but because he is Celiac and the vaccines didn't take and won't take until we get his levels below a certain number.  For those who don't know, if your child is already Celiac vaccines a lot of the time (according to our specialist) won't take (my son is one of those statistics). So I have a vaccinated boy who is currently unvaccinated but I don't fear, nor am I bothered by anti-vaxxers. There appears to be a lot of misinformation from both sides of the argument and maybe if there was more intellectual honesty and reporting a lot of things could be resolved more quickly. This is a story of my friend on Facebook:

The bold is a pretty decent threat by a doctor who has taken upon him a particular oath, assuming she is quoting him correctly. I will believe her but give the doctor a benefit of the doubt. If true, glad he was never any of my children's doctors. But she could have found a more mature and less arrogant doctor who would help, sadly she kept going back to this doctor.

But hey, vaccines are totally safe! At least that is what I keep reading from forums, posts, and articles that talk about vaccines. My favorite part is when a story of truth is shared, and then to read pro-vaxxers try to say, "This type of article/post shouldn't be posted, because it can lead to false understandings and bolster anti-vaxxers." Well, ya, truth and personal experience usually has that affect. Who then is trying to hush knowledge/experience?

This is why I don't fear anti-vaxxers and their personal choice (even though I have a son who could be affected). I accept it without abashing their choice, because I do not know what they have experienced or what they have knowledge of, or what prompting God gives them. But apparently some doctors love their position more than their patients. Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with this type of arrogant doctor, assuming this is an accurate account of the doctor and patient dialogue.

OK this is just a weird story.  The kind of screaming that happens when there is a bad reaction from the vaccine doesn't happen immediately- like right after the shot is given in the doctor's office. I've given hundreds of those shots. Yes some babies cry like crazy and some hurt and are deeply offended and let you know every time you move them.   High pitched screaming associated with a bad reaction would come hours later as the neurological system is affected. The fact that this baby had been experiencing high fevers before she ever got the vaccine is something to consider. Even a low grade fever that day could have been  from whatever it was that gave her encephalitis.  It could be that something was brewing in her system long before she was vaccinated. Then it landed in her brain. Was it ever proven by the doctors? Do they know from a lumbar puncture what organism was growing in there? It just doesn't add up the way the story was told. I'm not discounting the mother's prompting at all. Perhaps she shouldn't have gotten the shot. But sadly her baby may have gotten encephalitis anyway. 

Also, I have a daughter who was diagnosed with Celiac disease at the Mayo Clinic about 13 years ago. We have never been told that vaccines won't take. Can you direct me to some kind of referrence for that? She has had all her vaccines. Hasn't had any reactions. Hasn't gotten sick with any of the illnesses.

Edited May 23, 2019 by carlimac

[Anddenex]

12 minutes ago, carlimac said:

OK this is just a weird story.  The kind of screaming that happens when there is a bad reaction from the vaccine doesn't happen immediately- like right after the shot is given in the doctor's office. I've given hundreds of those shots. Yes some babies cry like crazy and some hurt and are deeply offended.  High pitched screaming would came hours later as the neurological system is affected. The fact that this baby had been experiencing high fevers before she ever got the vaccine is something to consider. It could be that something was brewing in her system long before she was vaccinated. Then it landed in her brain. Was it ever proven by the doctors? Do they know from a lumbar puncture what organism was growing in there? It just doesn't add up the way the story was told. 

Also, I have a daughter who was diagnosed with Celiac disease at the Mayo Clinic about 13 years ago. We have never been told that vaccines won't take. Can you direct me to some kind of referrence for that? She has had all her vaccines. Hasn't had any reactions. Hasn't gotten sick with any of the illnesses.

Weird story. This is your opening statement. Well, I assume then if personal experience doesn't sound right then it must not be true, right?

And because someone has given hundreds of these, this type of experience could never happen, right? 

I would say, contact a specialist over Celiac. I am merely specifying what our specialist told us and why my son isn't showing as vaccinated right now although he has had all his shots, and why he said to wait until his numbers are below a certain number. Oh wait, but that probably doesn't add up either, and just another "weird story" my son is experiencing.

I can't tell if you are being genuine with the last paragraph in relation to your first paragraph.

[carlimac]

28 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I understand what you are saying; however, I solely put this on this doctor. The amount of money we spend and time shouldn't be any excuse for placing position (doctor) over patient. Let's review from the story two statements:

1) Vaccines are safe.

2) The doctor said "There is a "rare" complication that can happen. But if she stops screaming she'll be fine."

First, if the doctor had more intellectual and professional integrity the easy statement would be something to this nature, "Vaccines are safe for the majority of people and you should vaccinate your child; however, we do know there are rare complications and we should make sure your daughter is not one of those rare complications. We won't move forward until you are comfortable with this decision." This mother wouldn't have a brain damaged child, due to vaccines, if he cared more about his patient rather than his position (or as you say, his time and money).

Second, it doesn't matter if the doctor is religious or non-religious. Taking care of your patient should first priority. This kinda reminds me of Patch Adams and the dialogue with his roommate. I would consider, and am very glad I have had doctor's who listen to their patients rather than disregarding their patients solely because -- "Hey, I am educated with time and money -- I'm right!" In this situation though we aren't talking about telling a doctor not to vaccinate a kid, we are talking about a mother inquiring about their own kid. Sure, no one should tell a doctor not to vaccinate a kid, but they do have every right to ask and inquire and be frankly and honestly talked to.

 

I'm going to bat for this doctor. I think the only thing he did wrong was perhaps persistently encouraging giving the shot that day when the baby had a low grade fever. They could have come back when the baby's temp was normal. but it isn't unheard of to give shots if there is a slight fever. I think  it was specifically BECAUSE the doctor was concerned about his patient -about the baby catching Pertussis that he encouraged giving the shot asap.  Pertussis is wretched and can be fatal for babies. There is no way a doctor can know for certain before the shot is given which child will have a severe reaction. ( Except it's not recommended for kids with certain types of allergies). It sounds to me like he WAS acting in the best interest of the patient. It's wrong to characterize doctors as uncaring. Some are,  but most absolutely DO care. Especially pediatricians! It's NOT the easiest specialty and what I learned from working with hundreds of them is that they tend to care more than most. ENTS on the other hand...  I've had more bad experiences with ENTs than any other kind of doctor. 

[carlimac]

23 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Weird story. This is your opening statement. Well, I assume then if personal experience doesn't sound right then it must not be true, right?

And because someone has given hundreds of these, this type of experience could never happen, right? 

I would say, contact a specialist over Celiac. I am merely specifying what our specialist told us and why my son isn't showing as vaccinated right now although he has had all his shots, and why he said to wait until his numbers are below a certain number. Oh wait, but that probably doesn't add up either, and just another "weird story" my son is experiencing.

I can't tell if you are being genuine with the last paragraph in relation to your first paragraph.

Ok I know for some reason I have a bad reputation on this forum- probably because I tell the truth and I'm not afraid to call out hooey when I see it.  If I'm wrong I will gladly admit it.  "Weird story"  because from my experience and education  you don't get encephalitis  from vaccines that fast unless you inject it right into the cerebral spinal fluid which is impossible if you are giving a shot in the leg. And even then it would take hours for the symptoms of encephalitis to show up.  The timing in the story  is just off.  What makes you say you can't tell if I'm being genuine? I was a pediatric nurse for years 7 at Primary Childrens  and then for 4 years in a pediatric office before I quit to raise my own 7 kids.  

The comment about  "if she stops screaming she'll be OK"  was totally appropriate. Now if she were having a seizure in his office or her eyes were rolling back in her head or she had a stiff neck and he said, "Oh she should be OK."  Then he should be sued and stripped of his license. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by carlimac

[Guest MormonGator]

20 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Ok I know for some reason I have a bad reputation on this forum

Not at all, actually I like your posts and I think most people here do too!  

[carlimac]

On 5/21/2019 at 4:26 PM, Anddenex said:

. All my children are vaxxed except one who was vaxxed (as a baby) but because he is Celiac and the vaccines didn't take and won't take until we get his levels below a certain number.  For those who don't know, if your child is already Celiac vaccines a lot of the time (according to our specialist) won't take (my son is one of those statistics).

Ok I found this from the World Journal of Gastroenterology from a couple years ago. 

"The available literature indicates that the immunological response to vaccines in children with celiac disease (CD) does not differ markedly from that of general population and antibody titres are high enough to provide long-term protection, except for hepatitis B virus (HBV) vaccine. "  

 

Then it goes on to say that there are an unlucky few who for some technical reason don't develop the immunity as readily as most kids with Celieac Disease do. Since my daughter was diagnosed when she was 9 1/2 years old she'd already gotten most of her vaccines so the doctor didn't feel the need to bring it up. Plus they've continued to learn more about it over the last 13 years. New protocols. She really hasn't seen a gastro doctor for probably 10 years at least. It would be interesting to find out if she's actually developed the immunity for all the diseases she was vaccinated for, especially Hep B. 

See, I can learn new things  and admit when I'm wrong. 

[NeuroTypical]

So, it is true that there are genuine bad stories out there.

It is also true that russian efforts to weaken our country have included dividing us over stuff like vaccines, making us look dumber than we are.

But stuff like this is true too:

 

 

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, NeuroTypical said:

So, it is true that there are genuine bad stories out there.

It is also true that russian efforts to weaken our country have included dividing us over stuff like vaccines, making us look dumber than we are.

But stuff like this is true too:

 

 

All this time I thought you were an anti-vaxxer @NeuroTypical. 

[NeuroTypical]

Just now, MormonGator said:

All this time I thought you were an anti-vaxxer @NeuroTypical. 

Of course I am!  I gets me info strait off the interwebs!