Husband had one time affair


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17 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

And yet, if we reverse the gender and apply consensus thought to the OP, husband becomes a young woman who drank away her ability to consent. Your argument becomes victim blaming someone who was sexually assaulted (at best).

"Victim blaming" is a modern feminist argument that is cancer just like "mansplaining".  So, @Vort and @zil's positions remain intact whether it's a young woman drinking away her ability to consent.  Of course, the drunken state of any of the parties don't make the offense of the other party any less terrible either.  So, a rapist raping a drunk college girl doesn't exculpate him from rape - whether he himself was drunk.

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19 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

And yet, if we reverse the gender and apply consensus thought to the OP, husband becomes a young woman who drank away her ability to consent. Your argument becomes victim blaming someone who was sexually assaulted (at best). 

"What I do when I'm drunk" is not the same as "what someone does to me while I'm drunk".

(And I had left the OP and was commenting on the side conversation about whether "getting drunk" excuses bad behavior.)

But then I'm also not afraid to say that getting yourself drunk is a good way to increase your risk of being victimized.  (Not that it's the only way, not that it guarantees it, not that it necessarily changes the risks - depending on the details - but it's surely not going to help matters.  And no, being a victim is not the victim's fault - it's the criminal's fault - but unless you want to be a victim, or deny the reality that there are evil people in the world, better to avoid things that increase your risk and do things that reduce your risk.)

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43 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

And yet, if we reverse the gender and apply consensus thought to the OP, husband becomes a young woman who drank away her ability to consent. Your argument becomes victim blaming someone who was sexually assaulted (at best).

That is an excellent point.

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4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

"Victim blaming" is a modern feminist argument that is cancer just like "mansplaining".  So, @Vort and @zil's positions remain intact whether it's a young woman drinking away her ability to consent.  Of course, the drunken state of any of the parties don't make the offense of the other party any less terrible either.  So, a rapist raping a drunk college girl doesn't exculpate him from rape - whether he himself was drunk.

 

4 minutes ago, zil said:

"What I do when I'm drunk" is not the same as "what someone does to me while I'm drunk".

(And I had left the OP and was commenting on the side conversation about whether "getting drunk" excuses bad behavior.)

But then I'm also not afraid to say that getting yourself drunk is a good way to increase your risk of being victimized.  (Not that it's the only way, not that it guarantees it, not that it necessarily changes the risks - depending on the details - but it's surely not going to help matters.  And no, being a victim is not the victim's fault - it's the criminal's fault - but unless you want to be a victim, or deny the reality that there are evil people in the world, better to avoid things that increase your risk and do things that reduce your risk.)

I'm talking about the idea that once a woman is drunk she cannot give consent, making any ensuing sex by definition non-consensual and thus rape. If a woman shows up at a bar, gets propositioned and shouts "Yes! Absolutely! I consent to this!" she is not really consenting and will be definitionally raped.

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Myth: If the assailant, victim, or both are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, the victim is free to consent to sex and the assailant therefore cannot be charged with rape.
Fact: When intoxicated, an individual cannot legally consent to sexual activity. Forcing sex on someone who is too drunk to give consent is still Criminal Sexual Conduct in the Third Degree. Rape is a serious offense, and people who commit crimes while under the influence of alcohol or drugs are not considered free from guilt.

In the case I described, is that a "rapist raping a drunk college girl" or was that mutually-consensual sex between two inhibited people? Sexual Trauma Services says it's not consensual and whoever was propositioned was "forced". Then in Canada, you've got a student board that agrees with the STS, but legally it's still a grey area (warning: the second paragraph is graphic). This disparity is why I referred to it as the popular consensus and not a legal definition.

And once we go with this, who's to say hubby wasn't having a good alcohol-filled time with friends, and a woman propositioned him? wouldn't that make him the victim who's fault is drinking but not the rape?

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27 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

 

I'm talking about the idea that once a woman is drunk she cannot give consent, making any ensuing sex by definition non-consensual and thus rape. If a woman shows up at a bar, gets propositioned and shouts "Yes! Absolutely! I consent to this!" she is not really consenting and will be definitionally raped.

I'm talking about the idea that once a woman is drunk she cannot give consent, making any ensuing sex by definition non-consensual and thus rape. If a woman shows up at a bar, gets propositioned and shouts "Yes! Absolutely! I consent to this!" she is not really consenting and will be definitionally raped.

In the case I described, is that a "rapist raping a drunk college girl" or was that mutually-consensual sex between two inhibited people? Sexual Trauma Services says it's not consensual and whoever was propositioned was "forced". Then in Canada, you've got a student board that agrees with the STS, but legally it's still a grey area (warning: the second paragraph is graphic). This disparity is why I referred to it as the popular consensus and not a legal definition.

Yes.  That is exactly correct.  A drunk person cannot give consent.  Therefore, a guy engaging in sex with a drunk girl is engaging without consent.  A girl engaging in sex with a drunk guy is also engaging without consent.  So, whoever is the sober one is guilty of rape.  The drunk one is guilty of stupidity.  If both are drunk both can be charged of rape as by the Vort/Zil proposition, their drunkenness is not exculpatory of the rape charge.

 

27 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

And once we go with this, who's to say hubby wasn't having a good alcohol-filled time with friends, and a woman propositioned him? wouldn't that make him the victim who's fault is drinking but not the rape?

If the girl is sober she can be charged with rape.  If she was drunk, they both can be charged of rape.  In either case, the husband is still guilty of stupidity and adultery.

 

 

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On 8/29/2018 at 10:44 AM, omegaseamaster75 said:

Well your anecdotal evidence has convinced me. I'm totally on board and the OP should blow up her marriage.

And here you are making me out to be a divorce monger. You should stop throwing stones if you live in a glass house Mister.

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15 hours ago, zil said:

FWIW, I also reject the "unintentional" argument.  I cannot believe there's an adult in existence who does not know - in an intellectual fashion - that they will lose (some portion of) their reasoning and self control when drunk. 

Of course they know that, but people drink alcohol all the time without doing something that ruins their life, and people tend to think it won't happen to them. They feel 'safe' going to a bar and only expect a good time and hangover.  Doesn't let them off the hook, but I see that as a different situation than somebody who has full possession of their faculties and does the same thing.  It is somebody giving in to weakness as opposed to premeditated rebellion.   Like the difference between manslaughter and murder.

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