Is the Pope in trouble


Traveler
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On 8/28/2018 at 8:08 PM, Traveler said:

@anatess2, most likely, has one of the best insights on our forum into current problems - The Washington Post; not the best source of anything, is reporting that a high ranking Cardinal is calling for the Pope's resignation because the Pope allegedly knew of sex abuses for years and was part of the silent cover up.  I do not like speculation in such matters - but I believe this could hurt Christianity in the greater landscape of public opinion as much as or perhaps more so than the separation between much of Traditional Christian doctrine and Science.  

Many of the agnostics and atheists I know are difficult to engage in religious centered discussion just because they are "fed" up with religion as a whole.

 

The Traveler

Maybe he is in trouble. Justice shouldn't stop in front of the closed gates of their cathedrals. The Hydra has more than one head.

Edited by OnePassenger
too offending, a bit slowed down...
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On 9/19/2018 at 11:36 AM, Vort said:

Okay, so the RC Church applies its internal discipline via its "Canonical Law", while the government sees to jail time and other secular punishments. What's the problem?

Some have there minds made up and want one religion to be in nearly every country in the world but have immunity from that countries laws. This hurts the entire Christian religion. Everyone needs to go to the thread that contains a quote from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. A Catholic Priest. He makes it plain that seminary was almost an orgy. He is not spouting what the rules are he tells what the truth is. I do not hate any Church but simply want them to follow the rules and beliefs of their own church, clean up their act. We don't need a church to be an outlet for homosexuality to victimize children. The only thing I appose is hurting children, by anyone. We should not allow any one to hide behind Christianity. To defend this is blindly foolish and demonstrative of defensiveness to to the point of ignorance. It does not matter what the rules are if they are not followed. I don't care what Canon laws says I pity the fool that enables the hurting of the Innocents it would be better if a rock was hung around there neck and they be cast in the sea. The Fundamentalist Mormons are equally guilty

Edited by john4truth
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On 9/19/2018 at 11:36 AM, Vort said:

Okay, so the RC Church applies its internal discipline via its "Canonical Law", while the government sees to jail time and other secular punishments. What's the problem?

For some reason anatess knows the truth. Canon law no longer can hold people against their will. I am for truth. Which is RC hide behind Canon laws and children are hurt because of it. It does not matter that Anatess knows all about the laws  of the RC because they do not follow them.  Law not enforced is not law. It is only wishful thinking. 

The truth of what the law says, is not the truth about what is really happening. Anatess keeps quoting Canon Law but the Pope admitted it's not enforced. We still have the law of Consecration I am dying and broke due to an auto immune disease.  In theory I should have no financial worries LOL. The truth is I am trying to save our children ...period. Theoretical Laws are not worth the parchment they are written on. The truth is RC need to do more to protect children, according to the Pope. The rest is a foolish debate. Anatess please do not try to prove your knowledge at the expense of children. She is arguing with the Pope.

Edited by john4truth
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On 9/24/2018 at 9:21 PM, john4truth said:

(...)  It does not matter what the rules are if they are not followed. I don't care what Canon laws says I pity the fool that enables the hurting of the Innocents it would be better if a rock was hung around there neck and they be cast in the sea. The Fundamentalist Mormons are equally guilty

I'm against those cruel punishments, and who would roll the rocks to the sea? And where could you find enough millstones? It's more than a felony, it's a first degree, because they're hiding behind what they call priesthood -  what they call priesthood. A sworn-in club of degenerated pederasts. Hang'em high.

Some would call it "hate speech". And...? Let me call it Rock 'n' Roll. h0307.gif

Edited by OnePassenger
More hatred and scorn, more Rock 'n' Roll
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12 hours ago, john4truth said:

For some reason anatess knows the truth. Canon law no longer can hold people against their will. I am for truth. Which is RC hide behind Canon laws and children are hurt because of it. It does not matter that Anatess knows all about the laws  of the RC because they do not follow them.  Law not enforced is not law. It is only wishful thinking. 

The truth of what the law says, is not the truth about what is really happening. Anatess keeps quoting Canon Law but the Pope admitted it's not enforced. We still have the law of Consecration I am dying and broke due to an auto immune disease.  In theory I should have no financial worries LOL. The truth is I am trying to save our children ...period. Theoretical Laws are not worth the parchment they are written on. The truth is RC need to do more to protect children, according to the Pope. The rest is a foolish debate. Anatess please do not try to prove your knowledge at the expense of children. She is arguing with the Pope.

You just attacked my character.  Not only that, you stain the lives of my own children in your attempt in painting me as a person who promotes pride at the expense of children.  This belies your adherence to gospel principles in your cruelty of unrighteous judgement.  And your attacks on Catholic governance and your displays of hatefulness towards Catholics all over this forum also contradicts your articles of faith.  Apologize.

And to @OnePassenger for liking that hideous post - I will chalk that to English not being your primary language and may have been lost in translation.

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6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

You just attacked my character.  Not only that, you stain the lives of my own children in your attempt in painting me as a person who promotes pride at the expense of children.  This belies your adherence to gospel principles in your cruelty of unrighteous judgement.  And your attacks on Catholic governance and your displays of hatefulness towards Catholics all over this forum also contradicts your articles of faith.  Apologize.

And to @OnePassenger for liking that hideous post - I will chalk that to English not being your primary language and may have been lost in translation.

Dear Anatess, I haven't completely failed in noticing there may be some animosities between the two of you, for some reasons. However,  john4truth was talking about law enforcement. I'm not familiar with RKK canonical law,  but I assume that a church claiming to have been built on the rock of Peter and which practices sexual abuse and homosexuality behind its doors, en masse, has lost its institutional raison d'etre, legitimacy. The danger for Germany and Europe consists of an infiltration of left-wing globalists, whose ideologies have already become entrenched in the official churches (both Evangelist church and RKK) and who understand homosexuality, the abolition of marriage, free choice of sexual gender, etc., as some of their goals., not to forget the socialist world government. The green party in their gender ideology even regards sexual interactions between children and adults as normal - at least some of them articulated this in the past (I could give here some citations, but it would go too far). What john4truth is demanding here is that law should be enforced. This impressing American term has no counterpart in German, no pendant, and I could show you that Germany  is not even a real constitutional or law-and-order state *. But I think, i.e. Texas is, and his posting is based on this ground and a sense of justice. The real estate of the fundamental Mormons was seized by the State of Texas (!), their "prophet" has been incarcerated in Texas, after he was extraditioned to Texas and convicted. I'm sorry my "like" for john4truth's words have made you concerned, but maybe it should be taken only as some collateral damage - some friendly fire or so.

* https://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/rechtsstaat-deutschland-eine-ernuechternde-analyse-von-dr-klaus-miehling-a2649680.html

PS... You got a "like" from me, too; so let's stay friends. c0407.gif

Edited by OnePassenger
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8 hours ago, OnePassenger said:

Dear Anatess, I haven't completely failed in noticing there may be some animosities between the two of you, for some reasons. However,  john4truth was talking about law enforcement. I'm not familiar with RKK canonical law,  but I assume that a church claiming to have been built on the rock of Peter and which practices sexual abuse and homosexuality behind its doors, en masse, has lost its institutional raison d'etre, legitimacy. The danger for Germany and Europe consists of an infiltration of left-wing globalists, whose ideologies have already become entrenched in the official churches (both Evangelist church and RKK) and who understand homosexuality, the abolition of marriage, free choice of sexual gender, etc., as some of their goals., not to forget the socialist world government. The green party in their gender ideology even regards sexual interactions between children and adults as normal - at least some of them articulated this in the past (I could give here some citations, but it would go too far). What john4truth is demanding here is that law should be enforced. This impressing American term has no counterpart in German, no pendant, and I could show you that Germany  is not even a real constitutional or law-and-order state *. But I think, i.e. Texas is, and his posting is based on this ground and a sense of justice. The real estate of the fundamental Mormons was seized by the State of Texas (!), their "prophet" has been incarcerated in Texas, after he was extraditioned to Texas and convicted. I'm sorry my "like" for john4truth's words have made you concerned, but maybe it should be taken only as some collateral damage - some friendly fire or so.

* https://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/rechtsstaat-deutschland-eine-ernuechternde-analyse-von-dr-klaus-miehling-a2649680.html

PS... You got a "like" from me, too; so let's stay friends. c0407.gif

The bolded part above is the offending phrase in that entire paragraph.

I have no animosity towards john4truth.  I call it as I see it.  You impugn somebody's character, I call you out on it.

I have to be friends with Germans.  I want to stay employed.  :)  Seriously, though, you'll always be my friend just as john4truth will be my friend even as I'm calling out his bad judgment until you decide you don't want to be anymore.

Edited by anatess2
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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest MormonGator
36 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

How do you conclude that? The linked article says they're going back 70 years. That's pre-Vatican II changes, and definitely before early 00's.

I'll do my best with a comparison/hypothetical situation. 

I got caught cheating on my wife. She confronted me. I come clean, show her my cell phone, tell her everything about the other woman. I beg for forgiveness. She forgives me. I did not tell her about the the two other women I'm currently sleeping with. 

Five years later, she finds out about the two other women. I tell her "Oh, that's old news. It goes back five years." She has every right to be furious with me and tell me to pack my things and go. 

When you get caught doing something wrong (like the church did in the early 2000s) you need to 1) admit what you did was wrong.The church has done that, and good on them. 2) You need to come clean and admit everything. The church has not done that. Ergo, they have not learned anything from their prior mistakes. 

And if you (generic, not you meaning @mordorbund) think these scandals have ceased or we've heard of the last of them-then let me tell you about some land for sale in my beautiful home state of Florida.  

Edited by MormonGator
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Hugh Hewitt's three rules of successfully dealing with scandal:
1. Tell it all. (Gator's main point.)
2. Tell it early. (Don't wait to be discovered or caught.  Dragging it out just makes it worse.)
3. Tell it yourself. (You're not done with it until you do.)

From my not-really-paying-attention armchair, it seems like Pope Francis is really good at #3, but he and the whole rest of the organization is just horrible at #1 and 2.  Making #3 kind of insufficient and even counterproductive.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Guest MormonGator

I'm not a canon lawyer, but I seem to remember being told that if I withheld sins during confession, my confession may not (key word, may. I don't know this for sure) be valid. It seems the church did just that and yet still expected full absolution. 

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Funny how we look at this so cautiously but,  have no problem with Kavanaugh's crucifixion with no evidence. The Pope confessed to not acting on knowledge of children being hurt.  We need to be slow to judge especially when there's a motive to make accusations. History repeats itself over and over.

Edited by john4truth
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On 9/2/2018 at 7:44 PM, john4truth said:

The Muslims announced Christianity in the US will be destroyed and are teaching their Children this. Our Education system has converted to the big bang/spontaneous generation. The media is anti Christians.  Christians are fighting each other over who is right. Seems this is a perfect storm. All churches seem to be struggling. The majority of the US doesn't claim to be Christians . It seems like we are entering a time when our children will be challenged from every angle

 

I should have caught this a month ago. However, let me stab at the points now. Most U.S. Muslims are not radicals, looking to turn us into an Islamic state. Alas, if there really is fear, just promote more immigration. The vast majority of immigrants to our country are active, engaged Christians. Either that, or we need to get back to having larger families. As for Evolution, it's not a very big segment of education, and sharp Christian students can learn the arguments for Intelligent Design so they can counter those Evolutionists who insist that true science cannot include a higher power. Concerning Christians fighting each other, it just isn't so. Perhaps there are sporadic debates, but especially within traditional groups, there has never been better understanding, cooperation, and non-confrontation. Over 70% of Americans continue to identify as Christian, and churches with more rigorous engagement, including yours, Pentecostals, Baptists, etc. overall growth continues. Growth is also excellent in Spanish churches.  Bottom-line, we are succeeding and culture simply doesn't want us to realize it.

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