Third Hour

Is the Church Really on “the Wrong Side of Everything”?

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Hannah Cornaby must have been looking into a crystal ball or something when she wrote the text for "Who's on the Lord's Side?" (or, I guess a little more likely, received revelation) because her words have never been more applicable than they are today. For years, news outlets have reported that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is on the wrong side of everything — history, current events, even laws. Latter-day Saints, they claim, are disturbingly anti-social justice and equality. And you know what? Judging by the world's views, they're probably right. In a world that is increasingly "accepting," Latter-day Saints are becoming less and less accepted — all because the Church will not conform to society's standards of morality. While the world's laws are ever-changing, God's laws remain the same "yesterday, today, and forever" (1 Nephi 10:18). In April of 2013, Elder L. Tom Perry said, "The world changes constantly and dramatically, but God, His commandments, and promised blessings do not change. They are immutable and unchanging" (L. Tom...

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Worldly morality is dizzying to me.  One day we should all "love"(be permissive) everyone and respect them, but the next day we are filled with hatred towards someone who said or did something "offensive" and calling for their head on a block.  We are all special snowflakes, beautiful and majestic and perfect just the way we are, but don't forget to realize that the universe is huge and we are therefore insignificant beings.

 

Faith in God is ridiculous. Why believe in something you can't prove.  God doesn't exist.  Definitely can't prove it but I believe it anyway.( That's what reason looks like apparently)

 

I've seen a person go through all this in a week.  Literally contradicting themselves from day to day posting their opinions and sharing others they "agree" with.  

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8 minutes ago, Laniston said:

Worldly morality is dizzying to me.  One day we should all "love"(be permissive) everyone and respect them, but the next day we are filled with hatred towards someone who said or did something "offensive" and calling for their head on a block.  We are all special snowflakes, beautiful and majestic and perfect just the way we are, but don't forget to realize that the universe is huge and we are therefore insignificant beings.

 

Faith in God is ridiculous. Why believe in something you can't prove.  God doesn't exist.  Definitely can't prove it but I believe it anyway.( That's what reason looks like apparently)

 

I've seen a person go through all this in a week.  Literally contradicting themselves from day to day posting their opinions and sharing others they "agree" with.  

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On 8/30/2018 at 9:30 AM, MormonHub said:

Hannah Cornaby must have been looking into a crystal ball or something when she wrote the text for "Who's on the Lord's Side?" (or, I guess a little more likely, received revelation) because her words have never been more applicable than they are today. For years, news outlets have reported that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is on the wrong side of everything — history, current events, even laws. Latter-day Saints, they claim, are disturbingly anti-social justice and equality. And you know what? Judging by the world's views, they're probably right. In a world that is increasingly "accepting," Latter-day Saints are becoming less and less accepted — all because the Church will not conform to society's standards of morality. While the world's laws are ever-changing, God's laws remain the same "yesterday, today, and forever" (1 Nephi 10:18). In April of 2013, Elder L. Tom Perry said, "The world changes constantly and dramatically, but God, His commandments, and promised blessings do not change. They are immutable and unchanging" (L. Tom...

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The Church has changed its stance on medical marijuana to remaining neutral. The Lord doesn't change but humans do have to adapt. This is not new in the Church. It is not uncommon for the leaders to have to update their thinking they're human after all. The Church also donated to the fund to reduce LGBQT suicide. All of which is Christlike

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I hope that the Church isn't always on the "wrong" side of EVERY issue. I hope our discernment is more nuanced than "the World (TM) says X so the Church must say the opposite". When the World takes up a rallying cry against sexual assault and abuse, I hope the Church has and will take up the same cry, for example.

Perhaps the main problem I have with something like this, that I think my example illustrates, is that we always talk about "the World" without ever really defining who or what the World is (other than some idea that the World is those who are opposed to us). Of course, that kind of tautological "we are always on the wrong side of the World's issues because we define the World as those who are on the opposite side of our issues" may be true, but it doesn't help with discernment.

In the end, I hope the Church is always on the right side of what God wants. The real challenge is the discernment part -- knowing what God wants. And, accepting the fallibility of prophets and other Church leaders, is the Church always in every detail on the side that God wants?

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3 hours ago, MrShorty said:

I hope that the Church isn't always on the "wrong" side of EVERY issue. I hope our discernment is more nuanced than "the World (TM) says X so the Church must say the opposite". When the World takes up a rallying cry against sexual assault and abuse, I hope the Church has and will take up the same cry, for example.

The gospel has never changed. What is told to us by the living prophet as revelation is additional gospel/doctrine for us to keep us safe in the ever changing AND destructive world. To quote you "The World (TM) says X so the Church must say the opposite." end of quote.

It actually is: No matter how often the world changes and says X, then Y then T,  the Church stands steadfast with the TRUTH aka the gospel.

And to quote you again - "...I hope the Church has and will take up the same cry. . ." The church has ALWAYS held up the banner against sexual assault, abuse, and a long 'laundry' list in addition long before the "World" held it up in a hue and cry!

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 Perhaps the main problem I have with something like this, that I think my example illustrates, is that we always talk about "the World" without ever really defining who or what the World is * (other than some idea that the World is those who are opposed to us). Of course, that kind of tautological "we are always on the wrong side of the World's issues because we define the World as those who are on the opposite side of our issues" may be true, but it doesn't help with discernment.

* Definition of Of The World:Pleas read D&C 29:21, 2 Nephi 28:18. 1 Nephi 13:6, 8, 28; 14; 14:3, 9, 15, 17 ; 22:13-14. Those 13 scriptures sums it up nicely. [The chapters are underlined to help in understanding. ]

Tautology is useless restatement, or saying the same thing twice using different words. Discernment is a wondrous gift, given through the Holy Ghost. If one does not nurture oneself to keep the Holy Ghost near and dear, one will NOT have the full range of the gift of discernment. To nurture oneself one needs to read the scriptures daily, pray often, listen to uplifting music, etc., etc. Read: https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth?lang=eng     That pamphlet pretty much explains it all.

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In the end, I hope the Church is always on the right side of what God wants.

The real challenge is the discernment part -- knowing what God wants.

And, accepting the fallibility of prophets and other Church leaders, is the Church always in every detail on the side that God wants?

The Church is ALWAYS on the right side, because the Church is God's Gospel.

If you keep yourself in line with the teachings of God, obey His commandments and keep your baptismal and temple covenants, and walk with God as your eternal companion ~ ~ you will ALWAYS have the Gift of Discernment. When anything you read from the scriptures, conference talks, firesides, actually anything does not ring true to you. Fast, ponder, pray and ASK of God. BUT you also must cleanse yourself of the adversary by praying and asking the Lord to banish it from you. Turn off your local radio or TV station, turn off the non-uplifting music when you pray.

Fallibility: able or likely to make mistakes. Let's use: Our prophets have been/are mortal beings, and as such they are NOT perfect. But when they speak for the Lord, then they are perfect. Again, when one is In Tune with the Holy Ghost, they will receive confirmation of the truth in what the prophets are saying. 

By being Of The World, you are making it more and more difficult for the Holy Ghost to constantly walk with you.

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4 hours ago, MrShorty said:

When the World takes up a rallying cry against sexual assault and abuse, I hope the Church has and will take up the same cry, for example.

Our last General Conference had a good example of this. Not only did an apostle give an "attaboy" to the world finally coming around, but encouraged them to continue swinging the pendulum until they line up with Christ's standard of chastity.

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During my lifetime, worldly issues and concerns have moved from one extreme to another—from frivolous and trivial pursuits to serious immorality. It is commendable that nonconsensual immorality has been exposed and denounced. Such nonconsensual immorality is against the laws of God and of society. Those who understand God’s plan should also oppose consensual immorality, which is also a sin.

 

Edited by mordorbund

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