DennisTate

Should L.D.S. support rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple?

Do you support the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple?  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you support the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple by Jews... and for Jews?

    • Yes..... every word in Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 must come to pass.
      5
    • No..... this could cause a war in the Middle East.... and each human life is a temple potentially for the Holy Spirit.
      0
    • Yes
      4
    • No
      4
    • I am not certain.... but I am going to research this question further.
      4


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Following are several paragraphs from Grant R. Jeffrey Ph. D. who I believe did a great job of explaining

how different the relationship between the First Century Messianic Jewish community was with the Rabbinic

Jewish community...... in comparison to how matters are today in 2018.

 

Do you as an L.D. S. support the ultimate expression of freedom of religion for Orthodox Jews and Levites......

their ability to offer sacrifices according to the commandments of Moses...... in the Jerusalem Third Temple?

 

 

 

Quote

"The Sacrificial System Will Continue

One of the most perplexing ideas to students of Scripture is the idea that God intends that the annual feasts, along with animal sacrifice, will continue into the Millennium. Many Christians who have studied the prophetic portions of Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40 - 48, which clearly describe these Millennial worship ordinations, are confused by the idea. They ask, "Didn't the sacrifice of Christ eliminate animal sacrifices forever?"

............"Only the complete sacrifice of Jesus could ever totally atone for our sins. However, God clearly demanded the sacrifices from Adam to Christ. Those sacrifices were acts of obedience to the direct command of God, as well as acknowledgements of one's own personal sinfulness and need for God's forgiveness. Animal sacrifices covered the sins of the people temporarily until the prophesied Messiah would come and offer Himself once and for all as the necessary atonement for sin. If animal sacrifice can never atone for sin, why would God allow Israel to resume such sacrifice in the Third Temple, prior to Armageddon, and then demand that Israel continue such sacrifice in the Millennium? There are two reasons why I believe this is true."

First, the early Jewish - Christian Church continued to offer sacrifices in the first century.".......



.......Second, New Testament writers used the legal sacrificial system to illustrate very important points concerning Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.......

..... These examples of the way early Jewish believers used God's law to teach great love when He sacrificed His only Son on the cross will be repeated during the Millennium." (Grant R. Jeffrey, Messiah, War in the Middle East and the Road to Armageddon, page 317, 318 and 319)

 

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As I am sure you can guess... my poll is partly inspired by this amazing news:

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/113476/temple-institute-certifies-red-heifer/

Harbinger to Messiah: Red Heifer Is Born

 
Quote

 

The heifer, born from a natural birth, must be entirely red, with no more than two non-red hairs on its body. It must also never have been used for any labor or have been impregnated. The existence of such a heifer is considered a biological anomaly and very rare. Fortunately, the ritual requires an infinitesimally small quantity of ashes. From the time of Moses, who personally prepared the first heifer, until the destruction of the Temple, only nine red heifers were prepared. Nonetheless, this was sufficient to maintain the ritual purity of the entire nation for almost 2,000 years.

According to Jewish tradition, there will only be ten red heifers in human history with the tenth heifer ushering in the Messianic era. Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon (Maimonides), the most renowned medieval Jewish scholar known by the acronym Rambam, wrote in his explanation of the mitzvah that “the tenth red heifer will be accomplished by the king, the Messiah; may he be revealed speedily, Amen, May it be God’s will.”

 

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My understanding is that the mainline LDS position is that the LDS Church will be the ones spearheading the reconstruction of the temple foreseen by Ezekiel.  But seeing as how the Church appears to have no immediate plans to bring that to pass, I say the Jews are welcome to try it if they can.  If it brings about political instability leading to the end times — so much the better, as far as I’m concerned (I’m feeling a bit misanthropic at the moment, so apologies if I sound a bit flippant).

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This will happen when God wants it to happen, and support or opposition from any group of people whatsoever is irrelevant.

In a more practical vein, Jews do not practice biblical Judaism. They practice Rabbinic Judaism. The Levitical laws pertaining to to ritual purity for priests and sacrifices in the Temple have, as much as is practical, been converted to Oral Law commandments for the masses or reinterpreted as applying to all Jews, not just the kohanim, the high priests. The home has replaced the Temple as the holy place for those commandments. There is no actual need or purpose for a Temple. Prayer and repentance has replaced animal sacrifice as a means of atonement, and Judaism ever going back to animal sacrifice is very improbable. 

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On 9/7/2018 at 9:30 PM, DennisTate said:

the Jerusalem Third Temple?

You didn't offer an option "Don't care" in your poll.  From a doctrinal/theological standpoint, it doesn't matter whether the Jews build a Jewish temple in Jerusalem or not.  It doesn't change anything for better or worse in the LDS theology or prophecy.  **EDIT** (What JAG said.)

As for political positions, well, that didn't seem to be the thrust of the post itself. 

Quote

 Do you as an L.D. S. support ...

So, first, I'd ask you to reconcile the political nature of the poll with the theological nature of the post.

Edited by Guest

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On 9/7/2018 at 11:43 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

My understanding is that the mainline LDS position is that the LDS Church will be the ones spearheading the reconstruction of the temple foreseen by Ezekiel.  But seeing as how the Church appears to have no immediate plans to bring that to pass, I say the Jews are welcome to try it if they can.  If it brings about political instability leading to the end times — so much the better, as far as I’m concerned (I’m feeling a bit misanthropic at the moment, so apologies if I sound a bit flippant).

WOW!!!!!!!

 

That is fantastic news to me..... that fits with a prediction that I read by a man from Uganda back in 2010 who I think had a near death experience during a bout of malaria. 

His article got me thinking about this topic in a whole new way.   

 

Quote

Eporu Ronald Alfred

Kakira Deliverance Church,
P.O. Box 3191, Kakira, Jinja, Uganda

......

Dear brethren, 
I salute you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

RE: SHARING NEW DISCOVERIES OF THE TRUTH IN BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE IMMINENT HEALING AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

I am mesmerized by the truth in bible prophecy that the Spirit of God has been revealing over the recent years. Secret things belong to God and those that are revealed belong to us and our children... (Deut 29: 29).

1. King Cyrus the great ruled his country 555 years Before Christ i.e. from 576 BC to 530 BC and authorised the rebuilding of the second temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus of the Old Testament is hence associated with the number 555 and is the shadow figure of incoming Cyrus II of the New Testament. You may learn more about his history from the internet and scriptures. This new truth enables us to identify the leadership of the world that will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as prophesied in book of Isaiah before the rise of antichrist. Cyrus II is coming to revive the evangelical/Pentecostal church in Jerusalem and restore the headquarters of the church in same city where the church was born. He is set to strip Babylon of the vessels of the temple and the name of the Lord God and transfer that crown back to Jerusalem thus leaving Babylon naked. Cyrus will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem in fulfilment of the prophecy of Jesus as written in the book of John 2:18-23 and the prophecy of Isaiah as written in chapters 40, 41, 45 and 47 of the book of Isaiah. Jesus regarded the temple as the symbol of his own body while saying that he had the power to lay it down on the first day (1st millennium) and rebuild or raise it up on the 3rd day (3rd millennium). Remember that one day in the eyes of God is the same as one thousand years (millennium) as stated in book of 2 Peter 3:8. Rebuilding of the temple is thus associated with unification of the church.

Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23.

Cyrus II will erase that false image of Jesus that the counterfeit and Idolatrous state church of Babylon has been projecting around the world and revive the original church that projects the true brilliant image of Jesus Christ. Haggai 2:9 says that the glory of the latter church (temple) will be greater than the glory of the former church (temple).The rise of Cyrus will also usher in the ultimate fulfilment of the prophecy of Joel 2:28 where God intends to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days. The era of Cyrus brings the gentile period of grace to its close and leads to the restoration of the Jewish period of grace and salvation.




2. King Manasseh was the shadow figure (forerunner) of the antichrist in the Old Testament who ruled over Jerusalem exactly 666 years Before Christ i.e. from 697 BC to 642 BC. (2 chronicle 33: 1-2 and 2 kings 21: 1-17). Antichrist is associated with the number 666 as written in the book of Revelation 13:18. Manasseh was the most evil king to have ever ruled over the city of Jerusalem and kingdom of Judah.

Manasseh is reported to have killed so many innocent people in Jerusalem that the streets of Jerusalem were flowing with blood; he worshiped pagan idols and stars; he built pagan alters for idols and stars in the very courtyards of the temple; he sacrificed his sons to idols; he consulted diviners and mediums; he even set up an abominable pagan image at the temple that causes desolation just as the incoming antichrist will do. It was on that basis that God decided to have that first temple destroyed completely since Manasseh had desecrated it.



3. Prophet Jonah was the shadow figure (forerunner) of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament who undertook his prophetic ministry around 777 B.C. Prophet Jonah is hence associated with the number 777. He arose from the shadow and demise of Prophet Elisha. His preaching radiated such great power and authority that turned the city of Nineveh as the rising super power of that time up side down within 3 days only (read the book of Jonah). Jonah was the prophetic force behind the restoration of the lost territories of Israel in the reign of King Jeroboam II of Israel between 782 BC and 741 BC as written in II Kings 14:25. Jonah related with God more or less as his own father and God loved him more or less as His own son. He volunteered to die save occupants of the ship and was raised to life after three days just like Jesus Christ. Jesus compared himself with Jonah as his forerunner in the Old Testament as far as his earthly ministry, death and resurrection was concerned in Mathew 12; 38-41, Luke 11; 29-32. Jesus will also oversee the restoration of the lost territories of Israel just like prophet Jonah when he comes to rule as the king of kings and Lord of Lords. We can therefore correctly associate Jesus Christ with the number 777 just like Jonah as our commander-in-chief, Lord of the Sabbath and fountain of life.

The more we know where we came from the more we know where we are going. You are cordially invited to visit my face book home page for more information and messages. Feel free to share this truth with other brethren just as I received it free of charge from God.

Your brother in Christ 

Eporu Ronald
Scientist & Minister of Bible Prophecy

 

Edited by DennisTate
spelling

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On 9/20/2018 at 11:34 AM, Carborendum said:

You didn't offer an option "Don't care" in your poll.  From a doctrinal/theological standpoint, it doesn't matter whether the Jews build a Jewish temple in Jerusalem or not.  It doesn't change anything for better or worse in the LDS theology or prophecy.  **EDIT** (What JAG said.)

As for political positions, well, that didn't seem to be the thrust of the post itself. 

So, first, I'd ask you to reconcile the political nature of the poll with the theological nature of the post.

 

Well...... on one level...... America is facing a very public challenge in the form of

a plan to devalue the USA petro- dollar and shift much of the trade of oil over to a Chinese currency......

rather than USA dollars.......  There are 4.3 trillion USA petro- dollars in the hands of nations, companies and individuals who want

to devalue the USA dollar..... and knock America out of its position as the only real military superpower at this time.......

and know that the fact that over seventy percent of the reserve currencies of this earth.... are in USA dollars......

may be the most serious opening that they have available to them.  

I believe that the key to keeping the USA dollar strong and stable is for America and Israel to come together and cooperate on more and more projects.......

construction of the Ezekiel Temple Complex would certainly give Americans and Israelis something in common.......

Replicating Sorek large scale ocean water desalination technology in more and more areas experiencing drought or water shortages would be another

good thing for America and Israel to cooperate on.  

 

 

Edited by DennisTate
grammar

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You may wish to take a look at this to get a better idea of how serious this really is:

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/p-m-netanyahu-president-trump-has-a-4-3-trillion-dollar-problem.531929/page-2#post-1069652460

P. M. Netanyahu, President Trump has a 4.3 trillion dollar problem....

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Here is a pretty amazing series of images related to a proposed version of the Ezekiel 40 - 48 temple complex.  

 

Ezekiel's Temple, the Third Temple:
 
112804.png
 
 
60533.png
 
42245.png
 
19181.jpg
 
2038.png
7165.png
4948.jpg
 
31°28'58"N  35°14'37"E
 
This place is located in the Judean Desert, about 30 km south of Jerusalem, between Ein Gedi and Hebron.
 
The southern slope of the mountain, as it is written in the book of Ezekiel.
 
8389.jpg
 
It looks like the ruins of an ancient altar. Altar of Abraham, the land of Moriah, Jehovah Jireh?
 
5195.jpg
 
8984.jpg
 
It seems to me that the Temple is described in the book of the prophet Ezekiel quite clearly, so that it could be built. Can someone think that unbelievers will be able to build this Temple? Someone is waiting for this Temple to be built by the government of Israel, or the US government? Or are there those who hope that representatives of orthodox Judaism will be able to build the Third Temple, those who do not believe in Messiah Yeshua will be able to build the Temple of Messiah Yeshua?
 
If this Temple is to be built by us, Messianic Jews and Christians, then why are we engaged in any other business except the most important???
 
Posted on 11/07/2017
Now you can download the 3D model of the Temple with 3dwarehouse.sketchup.com, there is also a 3D view in the browser.
 
[MEDIA=youtube]M0r0dx4iVFY[/MEDIA]

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Here is the original source for those images about the Ezekiel 40 - 48 temple complex.  

https://galgal.dreamwidth.org/tag/third+temple

 

 

and....

 

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/ezekiels-temple-why-are-we-still-not-building.8007616/

Ezekiel's Temple: why are we still not building?

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On 9/7/2018 at 11:43 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

My understanding is that the mainline LDS position is that the LDS Church will be the ones spearheading the reconstruction of the temple foreseen by Ezekiel.  But seeing as how the Church appears to have no immediate plans to bring that to pass, I say the Jews are welcome to try it if they can.  If it brings about political instability leading to the end times — so much the better, as far as I’m concerned (I’m feeling a bit misanthropic at the moment, so apologies if I sound a bit flippant).

I quoted the poll from this link into a discussion forum that many Jewish thinkers and writers are involved in.  "The Ephraim Peace Plan" on Facebook.  The reaction so far is quite positive.  

I replied to this post:

Quote

 

So, ..................., but the time is really running out and Ephraim had a too long sleep. This is the time is left for Ephraim to inform the world that he has the right of the land until Trump is realizing his plan.
But what can we expect from Baptist-Ephraim-Leadership?

Actions and progress we can only expect if Ephraim-Leadership will cut off Christian spiritually in their belief-system and will act now to support Juda (which will be the benefit for themselves). But they will stay with Christianity and let their Messiah take responsibility instead to act like Israelites, according to their identity which is described in scriptures.

 

Quote

I could be wrong because I am no expert... but Latter Day Saints seem to have a tradition that they will assist in the building of the Ezekiel 40 - 48 temple complex.............

Quote

... because Latter Day Saints have experienced some persecution themselves.... .they might be able to assist in this with a level of altruism..... with fewer strings attached than perhaps any other branch of Christianity at this time?

 

I just found out they have a webpage:

https://ephraimpeaceplan.wordpress.com/about/

EPHRAIM PEACE PLAN

Edited by DennisTate
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On 9/28/2018 at 8:00 AM, DennisTate said:

I quoted the poll from this link into a discussion forum that many Jewish thinkers and writers are involved in.  "The Ephraim Peace Plan" on Facebook.  The reaction so far is quite positive.  
https://ephraimpeaceplan.wordpress.com/about/

EPHRAIM PEACE PLAN

Dennis,

I'm having trouble figuring out where you're going with all this because you keep going back and forth between political motivations and religious ones. And the two don't mix here -- not for Latter-day Saints.

The building of the temple in Jerusalem will not be done by Jewish effort, but by Latter-day Saint effort.  Any other "temple" is not a valid fulfillment of the prophecy in our eyes.  It's just another building that someone has built for their own purposes.  So, take that aspect OUT of the equation for whatever you're trying to get at.  Then we might begin to understand what you're saying.

On the socio-political side of things Mormons and Jews have always had a great relationship ever since the first Jewish refugees came to Utah and found that they were welcome to our communities.  They are our long-lost cousins.  Our histories and cultures are so very similar that it was only natural that we become friends.  From our side, we consider them kin, by blood.  So, if they have a great goal that has a righteous motivation, then sure, we'd want to lend our encouragement to do whatever they seek to do.  But I don't see the point of sending money to a cause like the Ephraim Peace Plan when I don't even get the motivation for it.

Edited by Guest

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4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

The building of the temple in Jerusalem will not be done by Jewish effort, but by Latter-day Saint effort.  Any other "temple" is not a valid fulfillment of the prophecy in our eyes.  It's just another building that someone has built for their own purposes.  So, take that aspect OUT of the equation for whatever you're trying to get at.  Then we might begin to understand what you're saying.

On the socio-political side of things Mormons and Jews have always had a great relationship ever since the first Jewish refugees came to Utah and found that they were welcome to our communities.  They are our long-lost cousins.  Our histories and cultures are so very similar that it was only natural that we become friends.  From our side, we consider them kin, by blood.  So, if they have a great goal that has a righteous motivation, then sure, we'd want to lend our encouragement to do whatever they seek to do.  But I don't see the point of sending money to a cause like the Ephraim Peace Plan when I don't even get the motivation for it.

Why will it not be done by Jewish Effort?  Everything in the Bible indicates that it will be built by the Jews.  Ironically, the two prophets themselves are indicated to be Jewish.  In today's climate, that could be interpreted to make sense as a native Jew born in Israel would probably be one of the only ones able to get away with such actions (and that's only a probably).

I could see it as being done by either LDS or Judaic effort.  I don't see why it has to be LDS.  I may be missing a lot of things though and there may be someplace where someone explicitly said something akin to what you are saying.

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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Why will it not be done by Jewish Effort?  Everything in the Bible indicates that it will be built by the Jews.  Ironically, the two prophets themselves are indicated to be Jewish.  In today's climate, that could be interpreted to make sense as a native Jew born in Israel would probably be one of the only ones able to get away with such actions (and that's only a probably).

I could see it as being done by either LDS or Judaic effort.  I don't see why it has to be LDS.  I may be missing a lot of things though and there may be someplace where someone explicitly said something akin to what you are saying.

Not Jewish in today's vernacular.  "Of the House of Israel".  And the House of Israel WILL BUILD IT.  Are we not the "Remnant of the House of Israel"?

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the question is, what is the relationship israel has with the church.
if bad, israel will not give permission to build.
In this old place stands a moslem building

 

 

black, the old temple place

Unbenanntmkmmmmmmm.jpg

Edited by goor_de

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On 9/29/2018 at 7:58 PM, JohnsonJones said:

Why will it not be done by Jewish Effort?  Everything in the Bible indicates that it will be built by the Jews.  Ironically, the two prophets themselves are indicated to be Jewish.  In today's climate, that could be interpreted to make sense as a native Jew born in Israel would probably be one of the only ones able to get away with such actions (and that's only a probably).

I could see it as being done by either LDS or Judaic effort.  I don't see why it has to be LDS.  I may be missing a lot of things though and there may be someplace where someone explicitly said something akin to what you are saying.

And now with the possibility of their being two Ark's of the Covenant......

(the original from the time of Moses and a replica made in the time of King Solomon)... this allows for the possibility of 

a Jerusalem Third Temple on the Temple Mount near the Gihon Spring.... ( a nice distance away from either the Dome of Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque)..... and

a separate Temple Complex based on Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48?

 

So the Temple Mount Third TEmple could be built by Jews and for Jews......

and the Ezekiel chapter 40 - 48 temple could perhaps be more of a joint effort between both Latter Day Saints and Jews.......

 

Quote

"In a September 1935, article in the National Geographic magazine, L. Roberts recorded his interviews with various priests in different parts of Ethiopia who consistently told the same story. They recounted that the Queen of Sheba had visited King Solomon and had had "a child", Menelik I. Solomon educated the lad in Jerusalem until he was nineteen years old. The boy then returned to Ethiopia with a large group of Jews, taking with him the true Ark of the Covenant.
......
The Ethiopian official national epic known as the Glory of the Kings (Kebra-Nagasi) contains an amazing story which offers an explanation of what happened to the Ark of the Covenant. In addition, there are several Ethiopian murals which tell how the Ark and the Tablets of the Law were taken to Ethiopia for safekeeping by Prince Menelik I. ..... The Queen of Sheba, his mother, had died and the prince prepared to leave Jerusalem to return twenty-five hundred miles to his native country to become its king.

Prince Menelik bore an uncanny resemblance in beauty and regal bearing to his father. King Solomon wanted to give him a replica of the Ark to take with him to Ethiopia because the long distance would prevent him from ever again worshipping at the temple in Jerusalem.

However Prince Menelik was concerned with the growing apostasy of Israel and the fact that his father, Solomon was now allowing idols to be placed in the Temple to please his pagan wives. King Solomon gave the prince a going-away banquet and after the priests were filled with wine, Menelik and his loyal associates switched arks and left the replica in its place in the Holy of Holies.// (Grant Jeffrey, [page 115, Armageddon, Appointment with Destiny).

 

Edited by DennisTate
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On 9/30/2018 at 9:48 AM, goor_de said:

the question is, what is the relationship israel has with the church.
if bad, israel will not give permission to build.
In this old place stands a moslem building

 

 

black, the old temple place

Unbenanntmkmmmmmmm.jpg

Do a search for the Gihon Spring area on the Temple Mount........

it is quite interesting indeed.......

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_L._Martin

 

Quote

 

Martin proposed a recalculation of the birth of Jesus in his books The Birth of Christ Recalculated (1978) and The Star that Astonished the World(1996). He argued that the "Star of Bethlehem" was the planet (or "wandering star" in antiquity) Jupiter, or Zedeq ("Righteousness") in Hebrew, leading the wise men to Jesus in Bethlehem on December 25, 2 BCE, coinciding with the Jewish Festival of Lamps or Hanukkah that year. Dr. Martin argued that the birth of Jesus happened on the evening of September 11, 3 BCE, which corresponds to Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year on the first of Tishri on the Jewish calendar.[4]

In his 1999 book The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Martin argued that the Haram al-Sharif is not the location of the last Temple. This was significant given his relationship with Herbert W. Armstrong whose editorial in The Plain Truth magazine was cited by Denis Michael Rohan as a reason for setting fire to the Al Aqsa mosque during the 1960s.

The basis of this work began with Martin's first visit to Jerusalem in 1961 when he first met Benjamin Mazar and later his son Ory Mazar, who informed him of his belief that the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel were located on the Ophel mound to the north of the original Mount Zion on the southeast ridge. In a 1996 draft report to support this theory Martin wrote: "I was then under the impression that Simon the Hasmonean (along with Herod a century later) moved the Temple from the Ophel mound to the Dome of the Rock area." However, after studying the words of Josephus concerning the Temple of Herod the Great, which was reported to be in the same general area of the former Temples, he then read the account of Eleazar who led the final contingent of Jewish resistance to the Romans at Masada which stated that the Roman fortress was the only structure left by 73 C.E. "With this key in mind, I came to the conclusion in 1997 that all the Temples were indeed located on the Ophel mound over the area of the Gihon Spring".[5] From these conclusions Martin produced his book in which he asserted that the Temples of Jerusalem were located over the Gihon Spring and not over the Dome of the Rock. He wrote: "What has been amazing to me is the vast amount of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian records that remain available from the first to the sixteenth centuries that clearly vindicate the conclusions that I have reached in this book of research."

 

 

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1 hour ago, DennisTate said:

Do a search for the Gihon Spring area on the Temple Mount........

it is quite interesting indeed.......

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_L._Martin

 

 

I believe
star means angel.

no heavenly star can precisely show the birthplace of birth
An angel led the wise men

the temple was original
  east of the golden gate
opposite the Mount of Olives

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On 10/2/2018 at 2:42 PM, goor_de said:

I believe
star means angel.

no heavenly star can precisely show the birthplace of birth
An angel led the wise men

the temple was original
  east of the golden gate
opposite the Mount of Olives

Good points..... I have also wondered over the years if the star could have been an angel.........

I just ran into an idea that to my thinking...... gives indirect verification for a major doctrine of the LDS community.  

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng

Quote

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

I have believed in a literal Ezekiel chapter 40 - 48 temple complex in Israel somewhere since the 1970's.....

and the description of that temple in Revelation 21 has it as so huge...... that there would need to be several other somewhat similar temple complexes put into other locations on the earth to act as a counterweight so that the orbital pattern of the earth would continue to be stable. 

 

 

Edited by DennisTate
quotation tags messed up....

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On 9/24/2018 at 8:51 AM, DennisTate said:

 

Well...... on one level...... America is facing a very public challenge in the form of

a plan to devalue the USA petro- dollar and shift much of the trade of oil over to a Chinese currency......

rather than USA dollars.......  There are 4.3 trillion USA petro- dollars in the hands of nations, companies and individuals who want

to devalue the USA dollar..... and knock America out of its position as the only real military superpower at this time.......

and know that the fact that over seventy percent of the reserve currencies of this earth.... are in USA dollars......

may be the most serious opening that they have available to them.  

I believe that the key to keeping the USA dollar strong and stable is for America and Israel to come together and cooperate on more and more projects.......

construction of the Ezekiel Temple Complex would certainly give Americans and Israelis something in common.......

Replicating Sorek large scale ocean water desalination technology in more and more areas experiencing drought or water shortages would be another

good thing for America and Israel to cooperate on.  

 

 

I just read that there is a similar plan in place in Europe.........  as well as in Russia.........

and one of the best counter measures to what George Soros has been planning for well over a decade.......

could be a Utah State alternative currency unit of some type....... it could be in the form of Volunteerism Hour like the local currency in Ithaca New York or.........

it could be a Dollar like Calgary Dollars, Alberta, Canada......  to make it easier for the Utah State currency to act as a buffer zone........

 

between the USA petro - dollar.... (which is the USA dollar)........ and a stable USA dollar.  Mark TAylor..... in my opinion accurately predicted that the USA dollar would be strong and stable...... but if Soros, Russia, China and Europe..... do make an attempt on the value of the dollar........

the political left wing investors may tend to cooperate with them......

which will lead to a TRANSFER OF WEALTH...... to much more ethical and patriotic Americans....... and to genuine allies of America and Israel.

 

Please do a search for this title.... and the name "DennisTate" .... for a lot more information relevant to this

that may be a little too political in nature for your forum ......

"P. M. Netanyahu, President Trump has a 4.3 trillion dollar problem...."

This could also be an important part of thwarting Soros and his buddies in their highly unethical plans .....

"Could a real estate boom plus better Fed policy pay off USA national debt?"

Quote

"There will be a sudden rush to buy farms, ranches, and homes in the country. 

Thousands will attempt to flee from cities, hoping that a return to the land and 

nature will provide security. There will be a growing urge to "get away from it 

all"---and much money will be invested in land and acreage in rural areas by 

people who have secret dreams of raising their own food and cattle and of 

becoming self-supporting. The price of open rural land will continue to soar. 

Acreage within 100 miles of most major cities will skyrocket out of reach to 

all but syndicates." (David Wilkerson, The Vision, page 18,19).

 

Edited by DennisTate
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On 9/7/2018 at 11:43 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

My understanding is that the mainline LDS position is that the LDS Church will be the ones spearheading the reconstruction of the temple foreseen by Ezekiel.  But seeing as how the Church appears to have no immediate plans to bring that to pass, I say the Jews are welcome to try it if they can.  If it brings about political instability leading to the end times — so much the better, as far as I’m concerned (I’m feeling a bit misanthropic at the moment, so apologies if I sound a bit flippant).

 

Here is another amazing video from Ben-Menashe:

 

 

 

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I thank all of you for your prayers.....

Over the last couple of years I have felt the Holy Spirit prompting me toward making some major decisions.

One of them was whether or not I should become LDS but I now know what my next step is.  Within months I may be living near Toronto, Canada and I

would be able to attend a Jewish synagogue on the Sabbath if......... they want me there... .and they just might????

 

At the minimum I could become a Noahide but I will be discussing my becoming a full fledged Prostylite IF....it is possible to do so

while still recognizing Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as having been Messiah / Moshiach the Passover Lamb?

 

I began an online discussion with Rabbi Yeshayahu Julius Hollander back in 2010 that I believe will be of some interest to many Latter day Saints and

Rabbi Hollander gave me permission to make our discussions public.  I will be encouraging you Latter day Saints to pray fervently about your actively and openly supporting the religious freedom of Israeli Orthodox and Chassidic Jews to rebuilt one or the other of their predicted Jerusalem Temples and offer sacrifices as explained by Moses?

 

IF...  the Latter day Saints church officially comes up with a plan on this question the tremendous blessing predicted by Mr. Eporu Ronald Alfred could come on your church but of course..... there will also be persecution for doing what is ethical and right and courageous.  One of the major possible plusses is that the Jewish people could come to think of Latter day Saints in general as Restored Ephrayimites / Restored members of the Lost Tribes of Israel......

and this could even lead to an actual treaty of sorts between the State of Utah with the State of Israel??????????

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Yes... that possible treaty either between the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and / or the State of Utah with

Israel and / or with the Jerusalem Sanhedrin... .could include the opening steps toward something of a law or right or return?????????

 

Here is the first e-mail that I ever sent off to Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander:

 

 Rabbi Hollander, linking Jerusalem Third Temple with Grand Unified Theory of Modern World Problems.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Dennis Tate <[email protected]> wrote:

Shalom Rabbi Hollander:
 
I've been participating on The Sanhedrin message board and I was urged to contact you
directly.  So far as I know I am probably the first minor Canadian politician who has
advocated that my nation assist The Temple Mount Faithful Community, People For A
Bill to Build The Bet HaMikdash and The Sanhedriin in your efforts to control the
Temple Mount and rebuild your Jerusalem Third Temple.
 
It is my firm belief that semi-reality and reality film series could play an important role 
in working out the fulfillment of every word spoken in the law and in the prophets.  My 
dad, Robert Stewart Tate, passed away on January 1, 1990.  His death came at the 
same time that I was being confronted with the implications of the near death 
experience accounts. I went through a theological crisis that I believe has relevance for
your SanHedrin.
 
"but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD
to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness
to Aza'zel." (Leviticus 16:10)
 
I had no problem with the positive near death experiences but those negative ones
put me into a philosophical crisis unlike I had ever experienced before.  I saw this 
verse in Leviticus as a possible loophole and I asked that the guilt of Azazel would
be put on my head.  I prayed and asked The G-d of Abraham if he had any use for
a volunteer "goat for Azazel?"  If so, then I wanted to submit my application for the
job.
 
Several unusual things did occur since that time that I feel indicates that my offer
may well have been accepted.  I would like to elaborate further on how I feel
a volunteer goat for Azazel could perhaps be of use in the working out of latter
day events in such a way that the death toll is kept to an absolute minimum.
 
Although I am not certain exactly what a volunteer goat for Azazel should do I
have seen a videotape in my head of myself signing currency units while my hand
is bleeding.  The blood that drips onto a particular part of those currency units,
along with many examples of my signature serves to authenticate the 
validity of these specific currency units for a future in which they could turn
out to be quite useful.  I hereby offer to The Sanhedrin 22 billion Dennis Tate
shekels or dollars, similar to CalgaryDollars.ca or the Ithaca Hour.  
 
Bill and Melinda Gates are planning on spending 24 billion US dollars in an effort
to make this world a better place.  I wish to compete with them.  This 22 billion
in a sense can be used as props in many reality films that tend to promote
peace in the Middle East and the reestablishment of the law of Moshe even in
foreign lands.
 
It is my belief that the films that you are guided to produce and direct will greatly
increase in value over the coming decades and centuries.
 
Shalom and greetings from Nova Scotia.
 
Dennis Tate  
 

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Rabbi Hollander replied:

 

Re: Rabbi Hollander, linking Jerusalem Third Temple with Grand Unified Theory of Modern World Problems.

 

Dear Mr. Tate, 
 
I read with interest all you wrote, and to understand more about you I did a search and see that you have written MP Peter Mackay regarding abortion. I congratulate you on every word in this letter, an excellent letter in content and form. 
I started with this because it is relatively simple and straightforword. 
 
The ideas you wrote about in the current letter are so much more commplex.
There is no doubt that the Almighty has many means of delivering messages to people. There is no doubt that many people receive messages  from the Almighty. 
 
While it is not possible to discount other iterpretations of your dreams and changes of you thoughts, it is clear that you have a comprehensive world-picture, and that this letter is an expression of the important points you saw fit to write me. 
 

Naturally, I am interested to learn more about your advocacy "that my nation assist The Temple Mount Faithful Community, People For A Bill to Build The Bet HaMikdash and The Sanhedrin in your efforts to control the Temple Mount and rebuild your Jerusalem Third Temple". Why do you thing that this advocacy will help you as a "minor Canadian politician" who is starting his campaign.
 
Of course we appreciate your support and would like to help you in this - and for that matter in your efforts against abortion. According to the Holy Torah, the prohibition of abortion [except in extreme cases, as you mention] was one of the commands of God to Noah [Genesis 9,6, the KJV translation is not equivalent to the Jewish tradition (it really wasn't meant to be!)] According to our understanding, this means that killing a person who is still inside its mother is a capital crime. 
 
Please send us some more elaboration of your ideas.  
 
Sincerely, 
 
Shalom,
 
Rabby Yeshayahu Hollander 
 
Apr 14, 2010 at 3:12 PM

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Note: Since beginning this discussion with Rabbi Hollander I've came to the conclusions that all of us Christians can identify with 

Barabbas / Bar Abbas to at least some degree.

We are all the guilty ones who went Scott Free but then Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus took the penalty of sin upon himself.....

.....  so... we Christians can see also something of a Yom Kippur event within the events surrounding the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.

 

In the process of increasingly identifying ourselves with Bar Abbas / Barabbas we need to come to regard our sins.... whatever our own personal sins are.....

as being "notable" and serious.  My pride... .my tendency to be lukewarm and lethargic in my worship and my spreading of the gospel as best as I can.....

my tendency to be presumptuous and disrespectful when I pray...... my tendency to look down on other Christians as being less than well informed.....

these are all serious sins and on some level may be similar to the process that led Covering Cherub Lucifer to his fall!

 

I liked the following explanation for the fall of Lucifer by a near  death experiencer:

 

https://www.near-death.com/science/articles/richard-eby-and-secomd-coming-of-christ.html#a03

(Dr. Richard Eby, near-death.     com):

 

Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed 'adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony 'sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!"

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