My girlfriend is conflicted about serving a mission and marrying me

[LatterDSaint]

Just now, MormonGator said:

@LatterDSaint, I hope you find peace brother. 

Thank you MormonGator. I will continue to keep praying and read scripture 👍

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, LatterDSaint said:

I will continue to keep praying and read scripture 👍

Than you are already in a very good place my friend. 

[Overwatch]

1 minute ago, LatterDSaint said:

Personally I am more concerned with whether she is dong the best thing for her relationship with Christ. Whether she serves a mission or chooses not to, my influence is much more limited. Her mother's influence as always (understandably) will be there. Her father's too and their parents unfortunately disagree... (that is all I will say about that)

I imagine there is a lot that you haven't told us. There is also things your friend did to you while you were dating that I find very rude. I will not go into specifics but I can see why you are concerned about the situation if not hurt

[JohnsonJones]

8 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

I haven't reached this level you are talking about. Not even close to that level  considering what my parents have done to sustain my presence in college here....

 

Again, your optimism far surpasses mine

 

it is part of it. There are plenty of other small factors which add to this...

 

It is an ongoing process. Three days is not enough and only recently has it become a priority prayer point for me.

 

you are partly there. Clearly my non mission experience is now a significant factor in our relationship but she has also been on the fence about serving a mission. These conflating issues among our desire to raise a family together once we are finished with college is what has caused us so much inner conflict. The strong pressure by her mother is understandable. I am not ignorant to the desire for your children to serve a full time mission. And her mother has never met me. If I had never met my daughter's boyfriend and he was a convert and has not served but is of age, I'd be skeptical too concerning marriage talks.

From your description though, her serving a mission in really inconsequential of the central issue.  It seem the central issue is whether you are, will be, or will never be, a full time missionary.

It would appear that she loves her mother.  The issue of whether you are a return missionary is thus central to this idea.  The idea of only marrying a return missionary is VERY common for young single adult women in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  It seems you understand this. 

I am NOT you.

If I were, I would probably take the default of the advice to serve a mission UNLESS I had received other promptings from the Lord.  There are many things, and serving is NOT always easy to do.  You think this is hard, I found it much harder when I got married to a degree.  I am the only member in my family, and so when I got married and chose to do so in the temple, that meant they could not attend my marriage.  That is a much harder decision for some than deciding to go on a mission for two years. 

We had a ring ceremony that was as close to a marriage ceremony as possible without going into it, but that was still a very hard thing to go through and explain to family.  Even today, I still get comments occasionally about how hurt someone was or how they did not understand and various other things.

Sometimes the things for the Lord requires sacrifice.  Three days is a short time.  (six months is also).

It could be, therefore, good to make such plans that if you have not received and answer contrary to it that you will serve a mission as soon as you graduate.  Make it known that unless you have another answer this is your plan.  If she feels this is a good thing, that's okay.  If she does not, then let it be and continue.  Let her choose her life and eternity as she so desires.  IF she has this much difficulty now, it may be that it will be worse later.  It sounds like you need time and she does.

As you stated that you would not get married until graduation anyways, what is another two years?  If she wants to go on a mission, and the plan is to wait till graduation anyways, support her in it.  It's not like graduation is around the corner (or is it?  You would know more than I).  Overall, these things are some time away.  Probably longer than six months (the time you've been dating).  Support her in whatever she chooses, and pray for your own guidance on where to go and do from here.

A much bigger deal is if you DID get married and you are not from the US and she is, that actually is a far greater difficulty to deal with than any of the others you have mentioned.  If you got married prior to graduation that would probably affect your status in the US almost immediately.  Questions that would affect you far more than if she goes on a mission or if you go on a mission are...

Can you and she even stay together after you are married if you cannot stay in the US or she cannot stay in your home nation?

How will you deal with this?

Where will you live?

What happens if her parents want her to be near them and yours family near yours and they are far apart, or even in different nations? 

Where do you want your children to identify with?

The things that you are wondering about now are, in some ways, small change compared to the challenges of people from two separate nations marrying each other, especially if one is from the US and one is not.

[LatterDSaint]

10 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

There is also things your friend did to you while you were dating that I find very rude

THere are some details about my *girlfriend's family history that I have left out because I do not feel it is appropiate to share even if this is the hub for Mormons. There are a few lines I am unwilling to cross. Perhaps they would have an impact on your responses to my situation. Perhaps they would not. Regarding her "rudeness" if you are referring to the situation where our physical interaction got bad, it was not just her. We were both rude and we recognized this shortly after and both of us went to her bishop together to confess and then I went to mine. We have made amends, however potential destruction was looming over us both recently which makes me slightly relieved it has ended, especially in the way that it did....

If that was not what you were referring to then I cannot agree on how your perception of her is that she has acted rudely. I assure you, she acted in the most respectable way possible whenever she had the chance. I too believe that I did the same which is why our break up was not full of bitterness from any side...

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[Overwatch]

12 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

however potential destruction was looming over us 

Seems pretty catastrophic but I'll just take you at your word. 

As far as your friend I think it is very hard for a person to have a significant other pulling them from one extreme to another. Or even just being wishy washy on serving or being with you. As far as immorality goes you both owned it by amending the situation. Now if you or her felt the need to break up then that's sad. It really is but it might be for the best... might not. 

I guess now time will tell.

[LatterDSaint]

10 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

Or even just being wishy washy on serving or being with you

Right I hear where you are coming from. The fact is that my *girlfriend had a lot of confusing influencing factors in her life during this period of searching for the Lord's answer. Myself, her father, her mother, BYU itself. I can't find it in me to feel any sort of resentment for her being wishy washy (as you correctly stated). These decisions are life changing and not easy. Not being with her now I believe is ultimately for the best. However I don't know how things will turn out in a few months time. This is the longest I have gone without contacting her. I don't feel like I am doing anything wrong though. Especially considering the conversation I had with my Bishop about it all. 

[LatterDSaint]

48 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

If you have a question it should be "Am I an exception to the general command?"

I understand this point. After speaking with my Bishop, it rings even more significant...

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, LatterDSaint said:

Like you I am not an optimist regarding this. JohnsonJones on the other hand....

It's not about optimism.  It's about LEGALITY.  I happen to know a lot of about the immigration laws surrounding student visas and working visas as I've been through that process myself over 20 years ago (yes, I'm old).  I'm currently a permanent resident - or what do they call us now... documented immigrants or something.

 

1 hour ago, LatterDSaint said:

Just curious, can this not be accomplished by looking for an eternal partner via Temple marriage?

Of course.  That's the route my husband took - he was 21 when we got married.  Could still have qualified for a mission but he married me instead.  But saying you're not going to serve a mission because you're going to get married instead when you're not engaged to be married is... limiting yourself in your desire to be closer to Christ.  Always be open to all the possibilities so that when Christ calls you, you're prepared to answer.

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by anatess2

[LatterDSaint]

12 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

It's not about optimism.  It's about LEGALITY.  I happen to know a lot of about the immigration laws surrounding student visas and working visas as I've been through that process myself over 20 years ago (yes, I'm old).  I'm currently a permanent resident - or what do they call us now... documented immigrants or something.

 

Of course.  That's the route my husband took - he was 21 when we got married.  Could still have qualified for a mission but he married me instead.  But saying you're not going to serve a mission because you're going to get married instead when you're not engaged to be married is... limiting yourself in your desire to be closer to Christ.  Always be open to all the possibilities so that when Christ calls you, you're prepared to answer.

 

Like I said,  I was curious. BYU is full of members of the church and it just so happened that earlier this year I found a hidden gem. Although being married to her was a selfish desire on my part, I dont know of any members that would condemn marriage between two members of the church....

I definitely feel that me marrying my girlfriend any time soon would be a mistake however. She is on a journey and only the Lord knows where it will lead her or who it will lead her to (may not be me)

As overwatch mentioned above, only time will tell

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

A much bigger deal is if you DID get married and you are not from the US and she is, that actually is a far greater difficulty to deal with than any of the others you have mentioned. 

This is not correct.  There are very few impediments to getting a visa for spouses of American citizens.  They are so few that I can recite them straight out of my head - 1.) Can't establish authenticity of marriage, 2.) can't establish sufficient financial support (non-citizens are not eligible for govt. welfare),  3.) is a carrier of communicable diseases, 4.) holds a criminal record (from any country), 5.) on the FBI watch list.

Somebody who has a student visa have already passed all of those requirements except for the first one.

[anatess2]

6 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

I dont know of any members that would condemn marriage between two members of the church....

Newsflash - there are no members that would condemn marriage as long as it is a covenant between 2 honest partners, one being a man and the other a woman.  Those who do are exercising unrighteous judgment. 

[LatterDSaint]

4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Newsflash - there are no members that would condemn marriage as long as it is a covenant between 2 honest partners, one being a man and the other a woman.  Those who do are exercising unrighteous judgment. 

That is good to hear. Of recent, I have been a little confused as to the accuracy of this....

[anatess2]

6 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

That is good to hear. Of recent, I have been a little confused as to the accuracy of this....

Your covenant is between you and God.  Your desire to serve is between you and God.  So, it is for you to reflect upon, not for us to tell you what to do with your journey to Christ.  The words of the prophets, as is reiterated by many here on this thread, are there to guide you on your journey.  Reject them at your peril.  You're the only one who knows your heart.  We don't.

[estradling75]

4 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

That is good to hear. Of recent, I have been a little confused as to the accuracy of this....

Do note there are plenty of people who do exercise unrighteous judgement.

Also for those whom have a vested interest in the spouses welfare...  They might be understandably concerned about your faithfulness and willingness to follow God's commands if you could have served but choose not to.  After all they are concerned about the future and the best tool they have for predicting the future is the past... (Yes it is a sucky tool but it is what we have besides revelation)

[LatterDSaint]

5 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Your covenant is between you and God.  Your desire to serve is between you and God.  So, it is for you to reflect upon, not for us to tell you what to do with your journey to Christ.  The words of the prophets, as is reiterated by many here on this thread, are there to guide you on your journey.  Reject them at your peril.  You're the only one who knows your heart.  We don't.

I understand this. I would have been slightly disappointed if you had said, condemnation nation should exist for members who marry each other. That is all. BTW I have something to share...

Edited September 14, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[Jane_Doe]

32 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

That is good to hear. Of recent, I have been a little confused as to the accuracy of this....

Marriage between a man and a woman who respect God and each other is ALWAYS a good thing.  ALWAYS something to be celebrated.  Regardless of the people's faith involved, nationality, whether or not they served a mission, economics, etc.  Marriage is of God, and hence is ALWAYS something to be celebrated.

On a different note: serving God is also always a good thing.  For example, if God prompts a person to go on a mission, then following that prompting is always a good thing too, and will help that person grow individually and closer to Christ.  Likewise following other promptings from God.  

Edited September 13, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[JohnsonJones]

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is not correct.  There are very few impediments to getting a visa for spouses of American citizens.  They are so few that I can recite them straight out of my head - 1.) Can't establish authenticity of marriage, 2.) can't establish sufficient financial support (non-citizens are not eligible for govt. welfare),  3.) is a carrier of communicable diseases, 4.) holds a criminal record (from any country), 5.) on the FBI watch list.

Somebody who has a student visa have already passed all of those requirements except for the first one.

What I mean is, at least from some students we've had that got married, they got their status revoked just about immediately.  They had to return to their country.  They did NOT get the ability to enter the US for quite a while.  Depending on the nation, some of their spouses have been able to go, others go for a few weeks and return.

Even now, I have someone who got married to a spouse last September.  They got a few weeks and then their spouse was sent back to their nation in South America.  Their spouse STILL has not gotten the ability to enter the US (they are doing it the legal way).  They were hoping when I saw them in last June that their wife would be here by October.  Now, that I've seen them at the university this new school year,  they are hoping that they will be able to have them here legally by the end of the year.

Student Visas can be easier to get than others as LONG as one is a student.  Coming to the US legally to STAY (rather than visit) has become a big legal hurdle in many ways, especially recently.

We did have another student who got married to a wife who was from the Philippines.  That took less than a year, but required a LOT of work.  I helped fill out some of the paperwork and accountability for the student and got them in contact with some people in the government to help speed that along a little bit.  Right now, if they get a divorce within, I think it is the next 5 years, her status goes away again and she is in the nation illegally, if I recall what they said right.  He can visit, but not stay, in the Philippines as well, from what I understand.

#2 can be a biggy for those who were just recently students at a university.

Edited September 13, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[mrmarklin]

You have only known this girl six months.  Let her go on a mission.  Since you are a student you don't seem to be in a position to propose anyway.  How would you support her?

Your supposed love is likely just a strong infatuation.

[BeccaKirstyn]

27 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

You have only known this girl six months.  Let her go on a mission.  Since you are a student you don't seem to be in a position to propose anyway.  How would you support her?

Your supposed love is likely just a strong infatuation.

Wow, harsh don't you think?

@LatterDSaint, I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in just in case you wanted another perspective, but a lot of people have said similar things.

Your visa status here is contingent upon you being a student--if you desire to serve a mission, consider this scenario without the other factors at hand (having to leave America, etc.). Just ask the Lord plainly (if you desire to) if you should serve a mission. He will guide you in the right direction. If that direction leads to a mission, great. If that direction leads to staying at BYU to finish school, great. Either way, you are the only person that can obtain revelation for yourself on that topic. 

For your *girlfriend, I would echo what @JohnsonJones mentioned: that quote by President Kimball was directed towards young men. Young women are encouraged to serve if they desire to do so, but there is no requirement. That doesn't mean you need to go tell your *girlfriend this, because that needs to be her own decision. But just for clarification on your end.

PLEASE do not think that you cannot marry a woman who has served a mission just because you haven't. If someone has said something similar to this, disregard everything you heard about it. Any 2 worthy people can make a marriage work--RM status has nothing to do with it. Does a mission help teach you so many things? Yes, absolutely. But there are plenty of members who never served a mission (both male and female) who are in strong, healthy marriages.

If your *girlfriend continues on with her life, and serving a mission, then you keep going on with yours. If you get back together before she starts her mission then it's up to you two if you want to still be exclusive while she is gone. But do what will make you happy. 

I hope you find clarity in your situation! 

[LatterDSaint]

52 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

You have only known this girl six months.  Let her go on a mission.  Since you are a student you don't seem to be in a position to propose anyway.  How would you support her?

Your supposed love is likely just a strong infatuation.

clearly you haven't been to BYU

In all seriousness though, do you believe male students who get married have absolutely no means of supporting their spouses and vice versa? If you haven't experienced the culture here at this University, i get it. You are probably too ignorant about it...

Also I assume "let her go on a mission" is code for "do not propose, for she might say yes which will prevent her from obtaining a mission experience"

I fully understand which is why I don't plan to propose to her anytime soon. Whatever she decides will be up to her. Our marriage would likely fail anyway if I pressured her into marriage in the way I assume you are describing

Edited September 14, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[LatterDSaint]

17 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

I hope you find clarity in your situation! 

thank you Becca. Prayer and scripture reading. This is what will help guide me forward 

[LatterDSaint]

There is something I believe I am beginning to understand a bit better. A mission service is about ourselves just as much as it is about the relationship with our Lord and Savior. A period of two years of absolute cleanliness. Minimal contact with the outside world, absolutely no physical contact with other people and freedom from the clasp of our past sins. I believe it is a process of spiritual restoration. Who in this church wouldn't want to experience that? I remember many of my sins from the not too distant past, and I am still a sinner. My absolute commitment to completely stop sinning would by default be shown if I served a two year mission wouldn't it? And on top of that, we go on missions to bring others onto Christ. That experience is not something anyone in this Church can fully replicate without serving a full time mission. I completely understand the desire for anyone that takes upon the oaths and covenants of the priesthood to accept this call. After all, if a young man decided that this call is not an endeavor worth their time, would they think a Church calling in a significant role in the Church is also worth their time? The Church needs both men and women to fill the positions that are available. Men form the Bishopric and what a person like me does at this stage of my life WILL have implications for what I will do later on in my life for whatever ward I am in. Am I off on anything here?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

7 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

I believe it is a process of spiritual restoration

I like your whole post, but particularly this line.  I believe it is true.  For most (not all) a mission is an incredible time of growth and spiritual restoration.  Most of the time, young people start their mission feeling like they are making a huge sacrifice, but doing it because of their love of Christ.  Very soon, they realize that He always blesses us more than we can offer Him.  This has been the case for my husband, myself, our children (sons and daughter) who have served thus far, mission companions and many friends and acquaintances from church.  This is why I am so thrilled that the age for young women to serve was changed to 19 so more young women will have this amazing opportunity.   To be honest that is my hope for you and your *girldfriend, that you will both serve, but that is between you and the Lord.  

 

[anatess2]

14 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

What I mean is, at least from some students we've had that got married, they got their status revoked just about immediately.  They had to return to their country.  They did NOT get the ability to enter the US for quite a while.  Depending on the nation, some of their spouses have been able to go, others go for a few weeks and return.

Even now, I have someone who got married to a spouse last September.  They got a few weeks and then their spouse was sent back to their nation in South America.  Their spouse STILL has not gotten the ability to enter the US (they are doing it the legal way).  They were hoping when I saw them in last June that their wife would be here by October.  Now, that I've seen them at the university this new school year,  they are hoping that they will be able to have them here legally by the end of the year.

Student Visas can be easier to get than others as LONG as one is a student.  Coming to the US legally to STAY (rather than visit) has become a big legal hurdle in many ways, especially recently.

We did have another student who got married to a wife who was from the Philippines.  That took less than a year, but required a LOT of work.  I helped fill out some of the paperwork and accountability for the student and got them in contact with some people in the government to help speed that along a little bit.  Right now, if they get a divorce within, I think it is the next 5 years, her status goes away again and she is in the nation illegally, if I recall what they said right.  He can visit, but not stay, in the Philippines as well, from what I understand.

#2 can be a biggy for those who were just recently students at a university.

Some of this doesn't make sense.  I do not promote illegal anything.  Most legal immigrants to the US (I am one) are not in favor of illegal immigration.

1.)  Foreign students getting married doesn't affect their F visa status.  The visa remains valid as long as they're in school plus 60-days grace period to adjust their status to another non-immigrant visa or permanent residency.  An F visa can extend up to 1 year after the grace period if the student gets an on-the-job-training in the US related to his completed degree.  Any visa holder can adjust their status if their circumstances change - changing an F visa to an H visa if you find a work sponsor or adjusting an F visa to permanent residency if you get married in the US to an American - without needing to leave the country.  The only time you would need to leave the country is if your F-visa expires before you are ready to submit your application to adjust.  If you submit your application and receive the acknowledgement of receipt of a valid application from the Feds and then your F visa expires while waiting for the approval, you do not need to exit the country.  You are in the area of non-status but your stay is not illegal as the Feds are the cause of your overstay.

2.) Student (F) visa is not easier than any other visa.  Just like other non-immigrant visas, you need a sponsor - in this case the school (you can't get a student visa without a school sponsor).  All visas require a lot of work gathering the necessary documents for the application process and a long waiting time depending on the number of applicants for that particular visa.  There are always a lot of applicants for B, F, and H visas so the response time is slow. 

3.)  Entering the US legally under any non-tourist visa is a big hurdle - including recently.  There has not been any changes to immigration law recently that affects the application and approval process of non-refugees.  Boo Congress.  Even tourist visas are difficult to get for those who doesn't have much in the way of assets - hard to prove intent to return to your homeland when you have nothing much to return to.

4.)  A Filipino getting married to an American in the US doesn't need to exit the country to apply for permanent residency.  A Filipino getting married to an American in the Philippines will have to apply for either a K-visa (non-immigrant) or US permanent residency in a US Embassy in the Philippines.  The Filipino cannot enter the US until the visa approval is received if he doesn't have any other valid visa (e.g. F visa).