Predictions on policy changes during conference?

[mikbone]

Thanks to Pam for the link

https://www.ldschurchnews.com/members/2018-09-04/a-sneak-peek-at-the-home-centered-church-curriculum-for-2019-47893

1) 2 hours of Church on Sunday!  Sunday School at home.  Sacrament Meeting & Priesthood / Relief Society / 1 hour of primary.

And I hope there is a class on BYUTV each Sunday with General Authorities actually teaching the class.  

2)  General Conference moves to quarterly instead of semiannually

D&C 20:61  The several elders composing this church of Christ are to meet in conference once in three months, or from time to time as said conferences shall direct or appoint;

[The Folk Prophet]

How does the importance of teaching the gospel in the home translate to less church? 3 hours of church, 2 hours of church, 4 hours... teaching the gospel in the home is still the most important place. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

2)  General Conference moves to quarterly instead of semiannually

D&C 20:61  The several elders composing this church of Christ are to meet in conference once in three months, or from time to time as said conferences shall direct or appoint;

One could argue we already do that, alternating General and Stake conferences.  

[Grunt]

7 hours ago, mikbone said:

Thanks to Pam for the link

https://www.ldschurchnews.com/members/2018-09-04/a-sneak-peek-at-the-home-centered-church-curriculum-for-2019-47893

1) 2 hours of Church on Sunday!  Sunday School at home.  Sacrament Meeting & Priesthood / Relief Society / 1 hour of primary.

And I hope there is a class on BYUTV each Sunday with General Authorities actually teaching the class.  

2)  General Conference moves to quarterly instead of semiannually

D&C 20:61  The several elders composing this church of Christ are to meet in conference once in three months, or from time to time as said conferences shall direct or appoint;

That's funny.  My father was visiting this weekend and came to church with us (he isn't a member).  At one point he leaned over and said "did that guy just say 'third hour?'"  I said "yep, THEN we get to have a linger longer today.  Don't worry, there's food involved."

[JohnsonJones]

I think a two hour block has been discussed, but whether it is going to be actually done that way...I don't know.

I think there are several options.  It could be that they move to a one hour block  (What's that you say?  A One hour block???).  Yep.  They have Sacrament, then they have Priesthood and Relief Society separate.  Perhaps have it at the same time as Young Men and Young Women.  They could also have Sunday School at another hour, and for those who do NOT have the standard middle class banker hours workweek, have it so that Sacrament is also done then.  Perhaps Primary is also done at a different time.

Another option is to have a Sacrament/Sunday School block with priesthood and Young Woman's and Relief Society at a different time.

Multiple ways to skin a cat IF that was actually chosen as an option.

I would hope that they make standardized Priesthood callings (so High Priest is now standardized at an age for those who are not called to it prior) to stop as much Good Old boy networks and any claims of class distinction or other things among the Priesthood.  Also to give younger generations a goal to work towards in being faithful in the church.  (this is probably a very very long shot, so probably not happening).

None of the above are predictions though.  I won't assume to supersede the brethren on those.

 

I DO think we will get talks on Studying the Scriptures and focusing on studying the words of the Lord.

I think we may get something on going to the Temple. I think some temples may be struggling with the numbers, even though there are many temple worthy members in their areas.  I think there may be things to inspire members to attend the temple more and to do more Temple work.

Not really policy changes I suppose, but emphasis on certain areas that we need to focus on.

[zil]

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

That's funny.  My father was visiting this weekend and came to church with us (he isn't a member).  At one point he leaned over and said "did that guy just say 'third hour?'"  I said "yep, THEN we get to have a linger longer today.  Don't worry, there's food involved." 

And what were his thoughts after it was all over?  (The mere fact that he was willing to come with you is nice - a lot of families aren't so tolerant, unfortunately.)

[zil]

3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I would hope that they make standardized Priesthood callings (so High Priest is now standardized at an age for those who are not called to it prior) to stop as much Good Old boy networks and any claims of class distinction or other things among the Priesthood.  Also to give younger generations a goal to work towards in being faithful in the church.  (this is probably a very very long shot, so probably not happening). 

Have you never considered that these are the reasons the Lord has not set an age for receiving the office of High Priest?  I mean really, if the men of the Church can't refrain from creating good-old-boy networks, from feeling less as "old Elders", and from feeling self-righteous for the mere act of being ordained High Priests; and if young men need a title as their priesthood goal, then the Church is in a sorry state indeed.

[Grunt]

9 minutes ago, zil said:

And what were his thoughts after it was all over?  (The mere fact that he was willing to come with you is nice - a lot of families aren't so tolerant, unfortunately.)

 

He enjoys it, it's just too long for him.  He was more surprised that it was so long.  He didn't mind. He's pretty tolerant.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Grunt

[JohnsonJones]

9 hours ago, zil said:

Have you never considered that these are the reasons the Lord has not set an age for receiving the office of High Priest?  I mean really, if the men of the Church can't refrain from creating good-old-boy networks, from feeling less as "old Elders", and from feeling self-righteous for the mere act of being ordained High Priests; and if young men need a title as their priesthood goal, then the Church is in a sorry state indeed.

The church then, is in a sorry state.  Good Old Boy networks have been around as far as I can remember (callings are STILL inspired, and leaders are still from revelation, but Good Old Boy networks are in full force in many of those selections as well) and the number of our young adults falling away from the church speaks for itself.  Some of them are tired of the Gold Old Boy networks and as the church has grown, the networks of the Good Old boys has grown more noticeable because more and more are NOT part of these networks.  In addition, the young adults now seem more attention deficit and leap from one thing to another.  They need something to give them a goal to keep their attention until they are a tad more mature.  It probably wouldn't stem the tide, but we need SOMETHING to keep them in.  At this point I think the church is barely keeping pace with those incoming with those leaving among our young adults from what I've observed.  I think there needs to be something that recognizes that they are still valued members, still contribute, and still have something more to work on over than "endure to the end."
 

At least for the younger generation.  They are different than we (or at least my generation) were, and need to keep on getting those habits while they were young (young for now, by the time some of them are getting married my generation had teenagers or almost to that point!).  Instead they are being pulled away by the world and worldly things without anything to keep them anchored with the church or to help them set goals which they cannot or do not seem to want to create on their own in regards to the Church and the gospel.

Obviously we have some of the greatest youth and Young Adults in the church that STAY with the church and will be powerful members.  However, more and more I see a greater number of the younger generation jumping ship.  If it continues to escalate we might not even have a church like it is today in a generation or two.

[zil]

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

The church then, is in a sorry state.

If the Church is in a sorry state, then the solution lies in the hearts of its members, not administrative changes to stroke their egos.

[JohnsonJones]

22 minutes ago, zil said:

If the Church is in a sorry state, then the solution lies in the hearts of its members, not administrative changes to stroke their egos.

It's more of a policy than anything else.  However, if the church falls in disrepair, NOT because the faithful members have lost their faith, but because many have fallen away from the faith, and it is due to policies (not commandments) that are outdated, then it very much is due to administrative problems.  In fact, most of what people are looking at in predictions (this very thread's topic is an example) are policy changes in how the church is administered.  Last Conference, it dealt with administrative changes. 

It's not to stroke one's egos, but to build a goal.

Before one is 8, they have the goal to be baptized.  Then they have the goal to become either a Deacon or join Young Woman's.  After that, they have the goal to go on a Mission or get married in the Temple.  After that...To get old and die.

That last one...not so inspiring to a young person today that has access to the internet, wonders why John his buddy who is related to everyone in the area who is Mormon got called as a Bishop when John is the one who got several girls pregnant in High school, while he who is the faithful one and never got out of line, but was a convert, is looked down upon. 

Or when someone says, what is my next goal...but is not really all that great at coming up with their own goal and so keeps going to church, but then finds all these detractors and those that discourage them...and they ask at this young age...what is there to keep me going.  What goal do I have.  What purpose do I have in the church.  I am discouraged and cannot find a reason beyond that they want me to go...no one will notice if I'm gone (and many times they are correct). 

Or Lucy who has to put up with Wendy.  Wendy who tormented her endlessly in high School and is now married to the Stake President.  Wendy who broke the law of chastity multiple times and mocked Lucy for keeping it.  Wendy who now brags how righteous she and her family are and because of how some gossip networks work in the church, everyone agrees with Wendy that Wendy is so great and respectable.  Meanwhile, Lucy wonders if this is how the church works, why am I even staying in such an organization?

There needs to be a great leveling in the church BECAUSE of our faults...and to help us in our modern age.  Yes, the faults may be with the members, but that is no reason to let the church die because we lose so many of the upcoming generations that we don't have any way to support those that are left at the level with which we have become accustomed.

PS: I'm not predicting that any change on this will happen, quite the opposite, but it would be nice to see something that stops the good old boy networks and everything else.  This would be the easiest to implement (as it has been done previously in the church as a policy in some areas already before it was done away with), but there could be other ways as well. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

many have fallen away from the faith, and it is due to policies (not commandments) that are outdated

This, of course, is nonsense.

[JohnsonJones]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

This, of course, is nonsense.

Explain then why we have such a decrease in the percentage of the church increasing, the apparent decrease of those between the ages of 20-30, and the huge deficit we are seeing in some areas related to that.

The policy I proposed is NOT one that is NEW (in fact it is old) BUT, when it was specifically done away with, there IS a strange correlation with the massive drop that we see (used to be able to be found and you could trace how the number/percentages of baptisms were decreasing as well as other numbers) in retaining Young Adults and others below the age of 40.

It is a growing problem. 

Anyone who thinks that the church is NOT changing it's policies to new and updated ideas have their heads in the sand right now.  The most talked about things in relation to the LAST conference was due to policy changes in regards to these things and more.

People are speculating on even MORE policy changes that will deal with our changing culture and attitudes.

ONE OF THE MAJOR REASONS we have a prophet (but not the only) is for modern revelation that leads us THROUGH these types of changes.

If we fail to implement the changes, yes, many will fall away, and as we have failed to implement some changes (for example, the new requirements for Bishop interviews with youth and children, and how we are supposed to have two adults in any event or occasion if possible) are ALSO reasons that people fall away (any instance of abuse these days are probably from people NOT implementing these new policies as they inherently make it much harder to do these types of sins against youth and children).  This in itself is a focal point within the church...and other policies are ALSO in that regards.

Nevertheless, I am not predicting any policy changes as I am not outguessing the brethren.  They will do as revelation dictates.

The only things I predicted (as seen in my first post) is actually dealing more with doctrinal and gospel topics on what will be talked about...probably by at least ONE General Authority.

(which boils down to two subjects out of many...that of temple attendance and temples and Scripture usage).

[Fether]

42 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

After that, they have the goal to go on a Mission or get married in the Temple.  After that...To get old and die.

I wrote out quite a long rant, but I will suffice it to say that this is the biggest bullcrappery And a ploy the adversary uses to bring us down.

A member in my ward said the same thing and I about fell off my seat. Just because you hit all th check boxes doesn’t mean you are done. Your next duty is to help our children reach a spiritual high greater than your own. Anyone that has a parent that has this view lacks a parent that has a drive to see them succeed.

Luke 22:32 says “I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.”

Why do you think marriage and family comes AFTER all those other steps???

42 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Yes, the faults may be with the members, but that is no reason to let the church die because we lose so many of the upcoming generations that we don't have any way to support those that are left at the level with which we have become accustomed.

Yes “statistics” may say we are losing many, but those who stay are so strong.

Additionally, all your scenarios are wildly fantasized and rare occurrences. I was 21 years old when I got out in the elders quorum presidency in a well established family ward. My past? Void of major sins.

and the cases where a man with many awful sins Ian later “made a bishop”, it comes after major repentance.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Fether

[mirkwood]

I think the 2 hour block is on the horizon, but not yet.  I think there will be greater changes to the Sunday School program rolled out.

 

 

 

[Fether]

13 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I think the 2 hour block is on the horizon, but not yet.  I think there will be greater changes to the Sunday School program rolled out.

 

 

 

I’m voting for a 4 hour block

[Just_A_Guy]

I’ve never really perceived the sort of social stratification @JohnsonJones speaks of (other than some natural coalescing into age groups that seems to happen in the Relief Society as well).  I do think that the merging of elders’ quorums and high priest groups will help in wards where such stratification may be occurring; but it will take some time—old habits die hard.  

Speaking anecdotally, it seems to me the problem with retaining youngish men isn’t that the Church isn’t giving them stuff to do and/or goals to aspire to; it’s more of an issue of their growing up with subtly different values whose natural implications tend to take them away from the Church as they age and set life goals that diverge from the pattern established in the Gospel.  The Church leadership, I daresay, has better information than I do; and I suspect they’ll continue to enact new policies that will try to bridge the gap.  But I agree with others here that responsibility for one’s faith—and the loss thereof—ultimately lies with the individual rather than the Church; and our efforts to mollycoddle the rising generation are only going to get us so far—as the efforts of mainline Protestant churches are already demonstrating.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[e-eye]

31 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I think the 2 hour block is on the horizon, but not yet.  I think there will be greater changes to the Sunday School program rolled out.

 

 

 

All the chatter is 2 hour block and I don't think it's wishful thinking this go around.  The 2 hour block correlates directly with the changes to Sunday School program.  I believe it all is announced at conference and changed Jan 1st.   I think this go around we see many changes.  I think the next go around we see more again.  

[Vort]

12 minutes ago, e-eye said:

I think this go around we see many changes.  I think the next go around we see more again.  

I hope you're right. I hope it goes to a 4-hour block.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

Explain then why we have such a decrease in the percentage of the church increasing, the apparent decrease of those between the ages of 20-30, and the huge deficit we are seeing in some areas related to that.

Maybe I'm misreading you. It seems like the implication is something along the lines of -- we're losing our youth because church is too long.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

I hope you're right. I hope it goes to a 4-hour block.

Why stop there? 8-12 hours would be better. In fact, I think we should do 8-12 hours Saturday too. 

[The Folk Prophet]

49 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I think the 2 hour block is on the horizon, 

Just out of curiosity...why? Why would a 2 hour block be on the horizon? What's the thinking here?

[The Folk Prophet]

21 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

isn’t that the Church isn’t

You and your danged double-negating lawyer speak!

[The Folk Prophet]

22 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’ve never really perceived the sort of social stratification @JohnsonJones speaks of (other than some natural coalescing into age groups that seems to happen in the Relief Society as well).  I do think that the merging of elders’ quorums and high priest groups will help in wards where such stratification may be occurring; but it will take some time—old habits die hard.  

Speaking anecdotally, it seems to me the problem with retaining youngish men isn’t that the Church isn’t giving them stuff to do and/or goals to aspire to; it’s more of an issue of their growing up with subtly different values whose natural implications tend to take them away from the Church as they age and set life goals that diverge from the pattern established in the Gospel.  The Church leadership, I daresay, has better information than I do; and I suspect they’ll continue to enact new policies that will try to bridge the gap.  But I agree with others here that responsibility for one’s faith—and the loss thereof—ultimately lies with the individual rather than the Church; and our efforts to mollycoddle the rising generation are only going to get us so far—as the efforts of mainline Protestant churches are already demonstrating.

I don't disagree that the ultimate responsibility lies with the individual. But I would say the problem is, primarily, centered in parenting. The stop gap reaction is a best-effort way to try and supplement for where the failure actually lies. But the reality is the failure is in homes, not in church.

I don't see a 2 hour block solving the problem though. I think we'll see a greater focus on addressing the weaknesses the world has in parenting practices and attitudes. Maybe we'll see a change to Family Home Evening or the like. Could a 2 hour block be a part of the change? Sure. But if it is, that would, in my opinion, be similar to re-naming Home Teaching to Ministering. Just a way to distract people into focusing on what they should have been focusing on all along -- a big shake-up to get people talking about the whys, wherefores, what-nots, and where-with-alls of the matter. How many lessons have we all had on ministering in the last 6 months, for example?

Totally agree though. The mollycoddling (a new word for me...cool) is not really the end all. It's one tool in a large arsenal - and probably a lesser of the tools available.

[Just_A_Guy]

I wonder if we aren’t going to see a resurrection of old fashioned midweek “cottage meetings” at some point, as a way to combine the structure and oversight of Church with the intimacy and parental involvement of home.  

Edited September 20, 2018 by Just_A_Guy