Predictions on policy changes during conference?


mikbone
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Just now, carlimac said:

But you can't force someone else to be spiritual. 

True. Irrelevant. I have never tried to force anyone to be spiritual in my life. I expect the only one(s) I run the risk of actually trying to do that with are my children, but the one I have currently isn't of age yet to even think about it.

1 minute ago, carlimac said:

All you can do is love them and help them if they want you to.

Actually you can teach, exhort, bear testimony, pray for, punish, reward, set an example for, repeat truths, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Perhaps that stuff falls under "love and help them", but it seems to me that you don't mean it that way. I'll stand corrected if wrong, but it seems with the inclusion of the word "all" you're implying that love and help are both sit-back and wait, passive type of activities.

But still...irrelevant. My thoughts weren't pointed towards forcing anyone else to be spiritual. Frankly that assumption is strange.

 

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10 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Not really.  If someone’s saying that a particular policy change (like, shortening the Sunday block) would bring about a desired result (like, people actually doing Godly stuff they aren’t currently doing), and TFP or I say “it might not work, because many of the people who would be affected are unlikely to actually do critical action x”, it isn’t really valid to reply “well, it’s none of your business whether they do x or not!!!”

I think it's indicative of a larger issue within religion-any rule change will only effect people who already follow the rules anyway. If you don't go to a three hour block of church, you probably aren't going to go a one hour block either. 

Edited by MormonGator
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2 minutes ago, carlimac said:

1) Mostly I didn't follow your reasoning very well

The point was that you are accusing something of being Pharisaical and I'm saying that you don't understand what that means any more than you understand it when you call someone judgmental. They're just accusatory words your throwing out to criticize ideas you don't like, but you don't actually understand either concept with any real depth, if at all. If you don't really know what the Pharisees actually did and taught, maybe you should stay away from that particular criticism.

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7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I think it's indicative of a larger issue within religion-any rule change will only effect people who already follow the rules anyway. If you don't go to a three hour block of church, you probably aren't going to go a one hour block either. 

I think there's something to be said for the change itself to stir things up if nothing else. One could clearly make the argument that if someone didn't do their home teaching they aren't going to do ministering either...but I think there are likely at least some who were inspired to action by the shakeup.

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27 minutes ago, carlimac said:

But no one is saying that yet. And if the prophet were to say that, what would be your response? 

I would suggest you look back on page 2 of this thread discussion.  The idea has come up.

And, as much as I like and respect the members of this forum; I’ll give the Q15 just a smidge more deference—if they make such a policy change. ;) 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Personally, I'm hoping for a 2 hour church block.  And General Conference quarterly.  We are a worldwide church and we have the infrastructure (Internet, Satellite TV, etc) that would allow prophets to talk to us on a weekly basis.  

I have 11 children and my profession (Bone Doc that takes community call on weekends) requires me to miss probably 2 out of the 4-5 monthly Sunday services.  My wife solo takes care of all the children while I am performing surgery and as you can imagine, it can become a bit overwhelming if one - or a couple of my well behaved children are having an off day or are sick...

We need the Sacrament and EQ / RS for ministering, coordination, discussing the needs of the members, etc.

But I don't see Sunday School as a necessity.  Most of the leadership of the ward doesn't even participate with Sunday School.  The Bishop and his councilors are performing interviews or solving problems.  Many of the members that will accept a calling are teaching the youth or primary.  And there are lots of people wandering the halls, catching up on whatever.

And unfortunately many times in Sunday School we have to deal with teachers or participants elaborating upon their favorite esoteric doctrines...  Or even worse puffed up with pride trying to prove their greater intelligence or experience.  You know what I'm talking about. 

When I do make it to church (30 minute drive), I always ask each of the children to tell me 2-3 things that they learned from their classes.  And more times than not, I have to tell my children that such and such teaching is actually incorrect...  Or they can't think of a thing that they have learned.  No joke.

We already homeschool our children for obvious reasons (we live in California, so don't get me started on the required material and liberal agenda forced upon the students). 

Many times when we all get together after church we watch old conference talks so we can have an uplifting message.  I can't tell you the times I have been to church and have gone 10-30 minutes without hearing the name Jesus Christ.  At least we sing and have prayers.

 

I would love to have a home Sunday School class that is directed by the first presidency.  And I would prefer if there was a 1 hour block on BYU TV or the internet where an apostle could actually teach the material & reinforce the family study.

We love General Conference.  It is an enormous shot in the arm every April and October.  We all sit down and watch all the talks with attention, and my wife requires the children to take notes during the talks.  All of my children learn so much and I never have to explain that the doctrine is incorrect.  We cook, spend time together, and learn from God's anointed.  General Conference is my favorite holiday after Christmas. 

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Its really interesting to see all of the different perspectives about the length of time at church and I would like to add to the discussion and offer my own.

I would miss the time at church because it's about the only time I get to see other members, even though I currently spend 2 of those hours in primary (which BTW I LOVE). I am single and dont have family members to share the gospel with. My only opportunity in the week to discuss when I have been independently studying during the week or listen to the experiences of others is at church.  Sharing this experience is something which helps me to feel less lonely. 

Sunday afternoons can also be a lonely time for singles. I can't distract myself with work, I have limited opportunities to visit with other members as they are having family time and I would not feel comfortable encroaching on this time (and this thread reinforces that idea). I study and nap but it a personal struggle for me - just an alternative perspective I don't expect any solutions.

I also wonder if there is a geographical difference in perspectives. Being in the UK members are few and far between and the only opportunities for us to meet as saints is at organised meetings/events.

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12 hours ago, KScience said:

Its really interesting to see all of the different perspectives about the length of time at church and I would like to add to the discussion and offer my own.

I would miss the time at church because it's about the only time I get to see other members, even though I currently spend 2 of those hours in primary (which BTW I LOVE). I am single and dont have family members to share the gospel with. My only opportunity in the week to discuss when I have been independently studying during the week or listen to the experiences of others is at church.  Sharing this experience is something which helps me to feel less lonely. 

Sunday afternoons can also be a lonely time for singles. I can't distract myself with work, I have limited opportunities to visit with other members as they are having family time and I would not feel comfortable encroaching on this time (and this thread reinforces that idea). I study and nap but it a personal struggle for me - just an alternative perspective I don't expect any solutions.

I also wonder if there is a geographical difference in perspectives. Being in the UK members are few and far between and the only opportunities for us to meet as saints is at organised meetings/events.

I think whatever happens this might be the case at some level. What works for some might be hard for others. The change to HTing/ministering is an example for me. I work really well under set rules and established schedules. Losing the required monthly visit is really tough on me. It does not work as well for my brain. I'm more the personality type that by nature did his HTing every month because it was required every month, and will do my ministering once a quarter because it is required once a quarter. Knowing this, I have maintained the once a month rule in my own mind/thinking despite the fact that it is no longer a requirement. But it's hard to maintain a 3 hour block personally if everyone else has moved to a 2 hour one. :D

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26 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

The sacrament will now alternate between being kale chips & carrot juice and cookies & milk. 

It wouldn't matter.  Some places in the world they use bananas.  And because of the crazy fad on gluten free everything (only those with Celiac disease must avoid gluten), some wards are placing rice chex into the sacrament trays.  

D&C 27:2

 

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36 minutes ago, mikbone said:

It wouldn't matter.  Some places in the world they use bananas.  And because of the crazy fad on gluten free everything (only those with Celiac disease must avoid gluten), some wards are placing rice chex into the sacrament trays.  

D&C 27:2

2

Yeah... When choosing my silly policy change to predict, I deliberately went with something that is doctrinally fine.

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On 9/20/2018 at 10:45 PM, mikbone said:

Personally, I'm hoping for a 2 hour church block.  And General Conference quarterly.  We are a worldwide church and we have the infrastructure (Internet, Satellite TV, etc) that would allow prophets to talk to us on a weekly basis.  

That which we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly.

We already have prophets talk to us semi-annually.  How much do people actually pay attention?  How many remember what was said in conference?  We are blessed to have a sister in the ward who posts a "talk of the week".  She picks a talk each week from conference and posts it on the ward Facebook page.  We then have facebook discussions about that talk.  Do the math.  We have 26 weeks to go through before the next conference.  That's approximately the same number of talks that we have (now that women's session and ph session alternate).

This seems to work out perfectly.  It's almost like they WANT us to do that.  But how many do?  Has anyone here done that?  Heard of it?  I never have before this ward.

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8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

That which we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly.

This seems to work out perfectly.  It's almost like they WANT us to do that.  But how many do?  Has anyone here done that?  Heard of it?  I never have before this ward.

 

Me and mine do it.  The 2 weeks after President Monson died we listened to every onfrence  talk he gave for the first 15 years of his calling as Apostle.

 

We then refreshed ourselves with Presitent Nelson’s talks

 

Paine, Thomas

The American Crisis

 

The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.  What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated.

 
Ask not what the church can do for you.  Ask what can you can do for Jesus
Edited by mikbone
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Not that it means that the class times might not be shorter (for a shorter block) but there is a new Manual for Sunday School coming out for 2019, which puts a real wrench in the idea that Sunday School might be dropped.

I find myself entirely skeptical at this point on the shorter church thing. Full on skeptic here!

https://www.lds.org/languages/eng/content/manual/instructions-for-curriculum-2019/instructions-for-curriculum-2019?lang=eng

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29 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Not that it means that the class times might not be shorter (for a shorter block) but there is a new Manual for Sunday School coming out for 2019, which puts a real wrench in the idea that Sunday School might be dropped.

I find myself entirely skeptical at this point on the shorter church thing. Full on skeptic here!

https://www.lds.org/languages/eng/content/manual/instructions-for-curriculum-2019/instructions-for-curriculum-2019?lang=eng

I'm also skeptical.  The only little slivers of possibility that they'll make the change anyway are: (1) they started work on developing the new curriculum years ago (it's not a fast process - so things could have changed while they were developing the curriculum); (2) the shortening may not eliminate any meeting, just shorten them all; and (3) President Nelson may not have any qualms about changing plans at the drop of a hat.

But yeah, seems improbable that it'll be this Conference, but not entirely impossible.

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5 minutes ago, zil said:

I'm also skeptical.  The only little slivers of possibility that they'll make the change anyway are: (1) they started work on developing the new curriculum years ago (it's not a fast process - so things could have changed while they were developing the curriculum); (2) the shortening may not eliminate any meeting, just shorten them all; and (3) President Nelson may not have any qualms about changing plans at the drop of a hat.

But yeah, seems improbable that it'll be this Conference, but not entirely impossible.

Just for the sake of discussion: (1) The Lord leads the church. (2) I alluded to that, yes. I doubt it. But, mayhaps. (3) Of course. But...once again, the Lord guided Pres Monson too. ;)

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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6 hours ago, zil said:

 (3) President Nelson may not have any qualms about changing plans at the drop of a hat.

And a major city yet to be determined in Russia. 

 

“Our plans were to announce six new temples at conference time,” said President Nelson. “The Lord told me on the eve of conference: ‘Announce a temple in India.’ … That was the Lord's doing.”

Edited by mikbone
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I'm going to have to change my prediction: Church to join Southern Baptist Conference. 

(Yeah, you tell me I can't dance either, there better be an angelic manifestation and a signed note from God, notarized by Elijah to confirm it or I'm going to be having a beer at Billy Bob's before Conference is over.)

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I have no desire to go to a two hour block, but our ward happens to have good teachers.  I've been in a ward with a terrible Sunday School program.  That was a time when I would have welcomed a two hour bock (or a one hour block.  Elders Quorum was equally horrific).

Ultimately, I think the days of the three hour block are numbered.  Not because of changing social norms or anything of that sort, but due to a simple matter of real estate.

Consider a church building that is large enough that one ward could be in the chapel having Sacrament meeting while another ward is having classes.  On our current schedule, a building hosting four wards would likely have a schedule like this:

Ward 1 - 9 AM - 12 PM
Ward 2 - 11 AM - 2 PM
Ward 3 - 1 PM - 4 PM
Ward 4 - 3 PM - 6 PM

On a two hour block, that same building could then use the schedule

Ward 1 - 9 AM - 11 AM
Ward 2 - 10:30 AM - 12:30 PM
Ward 3 - 12:00 PM - 2:00 PM
Ward 4 - 1:30 PM - 3:30 PM
Ward 5 - 3:00 PM - 5:00 PM

Did you see that!? You can reduce building costs in densely Mormon populated areas by 20% (you could even squeeze in a sixth ward if you really wanted to).

So, rest assured, if/when we move to a two hour block, it will be in truly consistent with the Mormon way.....a global solution to a Utah problem.

(Me? cynical?  Why would you say that?)

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On 9/22/2018 at 7:44 AM, Carborendum said:

This seems to work out perfectly.  It's almost like they WANT us to do that.  But how many do?  Has anyone here done that?  Heard of it?  I never have before this ward.

Not exactly like you describe, no. But I personally listen to the most recent General Conference in its entirety at the beginning of every month. It does me a lot of good. At least, I have told myself that it does me a lot of good, but when I look at the fruits of my actions, I often wonder.

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42 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I have no desire to go to a two hour block, but our ward happens to have good teachers.  I've been in a ward with a terrible Sunday School program.  That was a time when I would have welcomed a two hour bock (or a one hour block.  Elders Quorum was equally horrific).

Ultimately, I think the days of the three hour block are numbered.  Not because of changing social norms or anything of that sort, but due to a simple matter of real estate.

Consider a church building that is large enough that one ward could be in the chapel having Sacrament meeting while another ward is having classes.  On our current schedule, a building hosting four wards would likely have a schedule like this: 

Ward 1 - 9 AM - 12 PM
Ward 2 - 11 AM - 2 PM
Ward 3 - 1 PM - 4 PM
Ward 4 - 3 PM - 6 PM

On a two hour block, that same building could then use the schedule 

Ward 1 - 9 AM - 11 AM
Ward 2 - 10:30 AM - 12:30 PM
Ward 3 - 12:00 PM - 2:00 PM
Ward 4 - 1:30 PM - 3:30 PM
Ward 5 - 3:00 PM - 5:00 PM

Did you see that!? You can reduce building costs in densely Mormon populated areas by 20% (you could even squeeze in a sixth ward if you really wanted to). 

So, rest assured, if/when we move to a two hour block, it will be in truly consistent with the Mormon way.....a global solution to a Utah problem.

(Me? cynical?  Why would you say that?) 

So which weeknight activities will they cancel, or are you predicting activities on Friday and Saturday as well as Tuesday through Thursday?

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I have heard that the changes being announced at this upcoming General Conference will be bigger than last.

And the two changes that I have heard are the following.

1) the two hour block.  This has already been beat to death.  There are supposedly some stakes that are trialing it right now.

2) Death of the temple marriage.  The church is going to announce that marriages will be conducted civilly allowing all to participate and then the sealing will be conducted shortly after with just close family and friends.  I hope this occurs.  I have many non-member family and friends that really get upset with the church because they don't get to attend the wedding.  To me it makes a lot of sense.  If the couple doesn't get sealed right away, there is probably an issue where they probably shouldn't have been married in the temple to begin with.

 

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